Wikivoyage:WTS archive/Travellers' pub/Pub cellar Dec 18, 2006

How to edit categories
Hi there,

I am new to Wikivoyage Shared and tried it out by uploading a pic. It shows a location in Germany, but there is no category for Germany in Europe, not to talk of subcategories for the country. Is there a way I can change this? Best wishes (WT-shared) Felix - 16/May/2006 20:08 GMT


 * Sorry, I had overseen that there is a Central Europe category. Only saw Greece under G (categories should be less confusing I think...). Still the question remains. Can I create categories and subcategories? (WT-shared) Felix - 16/May/2006 20:14 GMT


 * And here I am again. Have found out how to edit and create subcategories. Have messed around with Europe a bit and Category:Ireland now has to be deleted (sorry for that), as I have included Western Europe (which includes the Republic of Ireland and Great Britain9 in the catefory list. I think I will make it to edit the Mediterranean countries tommorrow. So please delete that Ireland. Thanks! - (WT-shared) Felix - 17/May/2006 20:11 GMT


 * Category deleted. (WT-shared) Riggwelter 12:15, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

VFD
We need a vfd process. Image:Krakau01.jpg was copied from Wikipedia commons where it is erroneously tagged with a PD license. We've also had problems with the user who uploaded to WP Commons.

So now what? -- (WT-shared) Cjensen 21:44, 17 May 2006 (EDT)


 * I tried to use a vfd template, but that didn't work either. (WT-shared) Sapphire 22:01, 17 May 2006 (EDT)


 * Any templates use in /en (or any other language) will have to be created/copied in /shared to be used here. (I've copied the English Template:vfd, though it still needs an infrastructure to go behind it.)
 * As for process, I think images that are straightforward copyvios should be damn-near-speedy deleted (both here and over in the language sites). Unlike your typical article deletion where Opinions May Vary, an image that matches an image on a web site without a compatible license declaration is an open-and-shut case.  It might be a good idea to require that the person tagging the image for deletion not be the one to carry that out, as a second-set-of-eyes precaution, but we don't need a bunch of people saying "Yup, that's a copyvio" over the course of several days before we can be sure we want to delete it. (And in a worst-case scenario where an image was wrongfully speedy-deleted because the submitter had actually dual-licensed it or whatever, it's easy to get the file back.)  Handling copyvios quickly would also help point out to repeat copyright violators that what they're doing is unproductive, because they'd be more likely to notice the image disappearing if it happens promptly.  To say nothing of better-securing Wikivoyage's legal status. - (WT-shared) TVerBeek 11:24, 21 May 2006 (EDT)
 * I'd appreciate very much getting a discussion going on this. We may need a somewhat different policy about VFDs. I'm going to move this discussion to Wikivoyage_Shared:Deletion policy. Thank. - (WT-shared) Sapphire 02:28, 1 June 2006 (EDT)

Questions, questions
Answer to no 4) Discussions from may 2006 and onwards moved here. The warning has been adjusted accordingly. (WT-shared) Riggwelter 05:03, 19 July 2006 (EDT)
 * 1) Interwiki links to Wikipedia aren't working. Design or oversight?
 * 2) It looks like Wikipedia has a cool feature where SVG is directly rendered as an image without needing to upload the PNG file separately. Can that be rolled in here?
 * 3) If the abovementioned cool feature is a Mediawiki extension can something be done so that depending on which language the file is accessed from, labels specific to that language is shown... A wild thought - I don't know if I am making sense.
 * 4) Why do we have a misleading warning on top of this page sending people away when clearly this is the page where all the discussion is happening? &mdash; (WT-shared) Ravikiran 11:25, 15 June 2006 (EDT)

1) Wikipedia: as an interwiki link isn't included with the default MediaWiki install for some reason - most likely because the original authors of that package were operating on the assumption that they are already on Wikipedia (as the original site to use MediaWiki) unless told otherwise. 2) SVG support is part of the core MediaWiki (as a configuration option), but it requires that an external package (such as Inkscape or RSVG) be available on the server. ImageMajick is also supported but not recommended as it makes a mess of text and gradient fills in image conversion. All of the openclipart.org stuff is SVG, so it is a useful facility to configure. 3) I doubt it. It would have the same capabilities as any other [[Image: tag in MediaWiki, no more, no less. --[[User:(WT-shared) Carlb|(WT-shared) Carlb]] 15:46, 22 October 2006 (EDT)

Geographical Hierarchy
So the Main Page now says "Images on Wikivoyage shared are sorted mostly by country". On the other hand, keeping Wikivoyage's Geographical hierarchy (which, by the way, is adopted differently between language versions) has also been proposed here on Shared. I was unaware that maybe a different hierarchy is being used here until I had isin'ed a couple of dozen categories using the same hierarchy as English Wikivoyage. Which structure are we using then? I'd be happy with the "by country" model because of the language versions issue, but the "by continent region" model could be fine too. (WT-shared) Rmx 22:39, 23 May 2006 (EDT)

Technical and language policy changes
There's a proposal that's been made to move more of the discussions about things that affect all Wikivoyagers to shared:. The idea is to make shared: more of a center of conversation for Wikivoyage, and put en: on a more equal footing with other language versions.

Technical issues (bug reports, feature requests, announcements) and language coordination (language expeditions, go-between reports) would move from en: to shared:. Policy and guidelines that only affected en: would, of course, stay on that wiki.

The proposal is on en:Project talk:Technical infrastructure policy and en:Project talk:Language version policy. It'd be especially great to get feedback from people who use shared: a lot. --(WT-shared) Evan 13:17, 6 July 2006 (EDT)
 * I'm a bit sceptical of the move, because too few people use Shared. If the point is to include people in discussion I think EN makes the most sense because there are more users on EN and as language versions are a spin off of EN people will naturally gravitate toward EN. I understand Hans' proposal, but it will actually be counter productive. No one in the EN community is so anti- other persepectives that we would automatically dismiss any view points DE, PL, PT, ES, FR, NL, IT, SV, and JA users provide on an EN policy technical infrastructure page. -- (WT-shared) Sapphire 11:04, 7 July 2006 (EDT)
 * I think it is an excellent way to make people use and develop Shared. (WT-shared) Riggwelter 19:07, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

"Commons:"
For most of the Wikivoyage language versions, the Interwiki prefix Something is a synonym for wts:Something, so that Wikimedia people can feel at home pointing to the Wikivoyage "commons".

I've just changed the interwiki prefix on shared so that here Something goes to Wikimedia Commons. I figure that that's the most reasonable place to point to with that prefix; it seems kind of useful.

Should we do that on every Wikivoyage version, or is it OK to do it only here? --(WT-shared) Evan 21:25, 6 July 2006 (EDT)
 * I suggest it's done on all versions. (WT-shared) Riggwelter 12:05, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

Navigation box
It would be helpful if the navigation bar on the right had a direct link to the Travellers' pub. I do not think we will use the Today's Log feature that much here, so it could be replaced by the pub link. (WT-shared) Riggwelter 12:05, 17 July 2006 (EDT)
 * Nobody seems to have had any objections. I have now carried out the change. (WT-shared) Riggwelter 06:51, 24 August 2006 (EDT)

Toolbox
Every version on WT should have an upload link to Shared, like "Upload file to Wikivoyage Shared". That way, it would be easier for the average user to put their files on Shared. (WT-shared) Riggwelter 12:05, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

Single signon
I've finally got code working on shared: so that you can log in to the site with an account from one of the other language versions. Because this is still a very new feature, you can only log into shared: with an account from another language version. You can't log into sv: with an account from de:, or log into pt: with an account from shared: (yet).

It's based on OpenID, a cool technology for logging into different servers. Here's how it works.

If you don't already have a shared: account

 * 1) Go to Special:OpenIDLogin on shared:.
 * 2) Enter your User page URL on your preferred Wikivoyage language version into the "OpenID" area. For example, "http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User:Evan" or "http://de.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Benutzer:Evan". Except use your user page, not mine.
 * 3) Hit the Verify button. It should take you to your preferred language version, where you may have to log in. It will also ask you if you want to share private data with the shared: wiki; make your own decision. There's not much advantage to this right now, and I will probably make it automatic for logging in between Wikivoyage wikis, but it's on now so people get how it works. You only have to do it once, though.
 * 4) Back at shared:, it will try to create a new user name for you. If your username at your "preferred" wiki is available, you get that. Otherwise, you get a choice between a couple of made-up names, or you can choose one yourself.

If you already have a shared: account

 * 1) Log in to your shared: account.
 * 2) Go to Special:OpenIDConvert on shared:.
 * 3) Enter your User page URL on your preferred Wikivoyage language version into the "OpenID" area. For example, "http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User:Evan" or "http://de.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Benutzer:Evan". Except use your user page, not mine. Hit OK to save it.
 * 4) Go to Special:Userlogout on shared: to log out of Wikivoyage Shared.
 * 5) Go to Special:OpenIDLogin on shared:.
 * 6) Enter your User: page URL again (from your preferred wiki, not the one from shared:), and hit Verify.
 * 7) You may have to log in, and you may also get asked if you want to share your private data with shared:. Make the decision as you wish.
 * 8) Back at shared, you'll be logged in.

After that
After that, you should be able to do whatever you want on the site, just like a regular logged-in user. When you come back later, you can go to Special:OpenIDLogin to log in again. In the not-too-distant future, when you come to shared: and you're logged in to your "home" wiki, you'll get automatically logged in here.

I'm going to try to add some documentation on this situation, but please let me know how it goes if you try this. See en:Project talk:Single sign-on for my rollout plan for this tool. --(WT-shared) Evan 22:42, 21 July 2006 (EDT)


 * I tried the above procedure and had a problem.
 * I already have an account on all language versions plus shared:.
 * I explicitly logged out from all language versions.
 * I went to wts:Special:OpenIDConvert and entered http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User:Episteme.
 * Now OpenID login seems to be working fine between shared: and en:.
 * I went to wts:Special:OpenIDConvert again and entered http://pl.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User:Episteme to add another language version (which was probably a wrong idea).
 * Since then, I can't log in at wts:Special:OpenIDLogin either with en: URL or pl: URL. After entering my password I am told "Your preferred nickname (Episteme) is already in use by another user."
 * I can still log in with the conventional method, though.
 * Now I have some questions:
 * Could you please reset my OpenID registration?
 * How to register with multiple language versions?
 * Does OpenID login have to be done in shared:? Each language version also has Special:OpenIDLogin page.
 * How about logout? Does it have to be done separately?
 * Could you make it clear that Special:Userlogout and Special:OpenIDLogin in the above procedure are done in shared: or in a language version?
 * It could be tough to enter a URL containing the localized namespace for "User:". Does the unlocalized "User:" namespace still work here too?
 * The whole mechanism seems to be somewhat obscure. How does it work internally?
 * --(WT-shared) Episteme 07:33, 22 July 2006 (EDT)
 * The whole mechanism seems to be somewhat obscure. How does it work internally?
 * --(WT-shared) Episteme 07:33, 22 July 2006 (EDT)


 * Oh, no! I'm so sorry that your first experience was a poor one. Maj and I call this the "Episteme feature" because you log in to so many different language versions.


 * These instructions were unclear. I was really lazy and didn't explicitly say how things work. I'll try to lay it out here, but please read the en:Project talk:Single sign-on page for how I'm rolling out this feature. Since user accounts are very important, I've tried to be very careful in making them work correctly, but I want to take it slow so that we can make sure it works OK.


 * In the future (over the next few weeks), you will be able to log into any Wikivoyage language version with an ID from any other Wikivoyage language version. It will be great. My personal plan is to convert all my accounts on all the language versions to be OpenID accounts that use my shared: identity (http://shared.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User:Evan). That way, when I get up in the morning, I can log into shared: (with my password) and go to all the other language versions without having to log in again.


 * I've also talked to admins with Wikimedia, Wikia, and Wikihow, and they all want to implement this feature, so you can log into almost any other wiki with your Wikivoyage login (and vice versa).


 * However, Today, you can only log in to shared: with an ID from another language version. You can't log into sv: with a user ID from nl:, or log in to fr: with a user id from shared:. I drew this diagram to show how it works; an arrow means that a user from one wiki can log into another:

Image:Wikivoyage-openid-login.png


 * Why did I do it with these arbitrary restrictions? Because it's a test. I think this feature works OK, but I'm trying to take it slow so that if anything comes up wrong, there's limited damage. And I think logging in to shared: from another version is the main "interwiki login" that most Wikivoyagers need to do (for uploading files).


 * So, with my apologies again, here are my responses to your questions:


 * You triggered a bug when you put the pl: URL in. It's a stupid mistake on my part (there was a space at the end of the URL!), and I'm going to fix it. In the mean time, your account has been reset. Let me know if there are any problems.
 * For each external account that you use, there is one local account that matches it. You can't log into the same local account with more than one different external account.
 * Each language version has a Special:OpenIDLogin page, but you can't login to anything but shared:. Soon, you will be able to; this is just part of the slow testing phase.
 * Logout works the same as usual.
 * I'll change that right after I finish this response.
 * I think that "User:" will always work, but please try it. Let me also note an experimental feature: you can use an interwiki link for the login ID, too. So "en:User:Evan" should work, or "ja:利用者:Episteme".
 * The internals are pretty complicated! First, let me ask that you look at the README, which has a lot of details on the internals. Next, I'll write about the whole thing on Project:OpenID, with some details.


 * I appreciate that you tried this, and I hope you'll try it again soon. --(WT-shared) Evan 12:22, 22 July 2006 (EDT)


 * Oh, also: here's a diagram of the next step in this testing. I know, it looks pretty complicated, but all it means is that anyone from any of the Wikivoyage versions can log into any of the other versions. --(WT-shared) Evan 13:03, 22 July 2006 (EDT)

Image:Wikivoyage-openid-login-soon.png

I appreciate your detailed illustration. BTW I tried again and still had a problem: --(WT-shared) Episteme 13:39, 22 July 2006 (EDT)
 * 1) Logged out from all language versions as well as shared:.
 * 2) Logged in to shared: with the conventional method.
 * 3) Went to wts:Special:OpenIDConvert, entered ja:User:Episteme and got successful conversion. Then I logged out.
 * 4) Went to wts:Special:OpenIDLogin and entered ja:User:Episteme. After entering my password I got "Your nickname is already in use" again.
 * 5) Next time I tried to log in with OpenID, I got "Verification error".
 * I have a similar problem. I can't log in to EN, PL, or any other language version, except EN.  Since I already had a Shared account under "Sapphire" I had to change my user name on Shared to User:(WT-shared) Andrew_Haggard_(Sapphire) and I've lost all admin privs on shared.  I'd appreciate if you'd delete that account and I'll just go about loggin in and out on each individual version. -- Sapphire

Categories
I have, in order to bring some order (!) to our specific Wikivoyage Shared meta pages, created three categories:


 * Category:Wikivoyage Shared which is the main category and should only contain sub-categories
 * Category:Wikivoyage Shared meta pages as a sub-category to Category:Wikivoyage Shared
 * Category:Templates which is a sub cat to Category:Wikivoyage Shared meta pages and only contains the templates we use.

One funny thing is that the last category, Templates, also lists some images uploaded onto Shared. I do not know why, but suspects some sort of RDF clash. IF it cannot be solved, we have to ditch the categories in this case and come up with some solution - the only way we can keep track of Wikivoyage Shared meta pages would then be Project:Namespace index. (WT-shared) Riggwelter 07:26, 22 July 2006 (EDT)
 * Thanks to (WT-shared) Evan, this problem has now been sorted. Mea culpa! (WT-shared) Riggwelter 17:44, 22 July 2006 (EDT)

Go-between reports -> Liaison reports
I have prepared the new version of go-between reports, as discussed on en:. The new page is called Project:Liaison reports and is an image of the corresponding go-between page on en:. Please use the template provided, this makes it way easier for the rest of us to comment on each other's progress. (WT-shared) Riggwelter 07:26, 22 July 2006 (EDT)

Main Page move permissions
I raised the permission level required for moving the main page from default to sysop, because 'Main Page is the hardwired entry point to the site and must never be moved.' I left the Main Page edit permissions at default. Anyone have any issues with preventing people from moving the main page? -- (WT-shared) Sapphire 01:46, 24 July 2006 (EDT)

Renaming a file
I foolishly added    before realising that on the english version there is a different version of the photo with the same name! Tried to move the page, but it says that it's a special page and I cannot move it... So, how do I change the name!!?!? (WT-shared) Tsandell 11:18, 29 July 2006 (EDT)


 * As far as I know, the only way to do this is to re-upload with a different name. --(WT-shared) Evan 23:49, 29 July 2006 (EDT)


 * Okay, that I shall do! (WT-shared) Tsandell 05:49, 30 July 2006 (EDT)

Category:Wikivoyage Shared meta pages

Shared should feel different
This has been proposed elsewhere but I'd like to bring it up here too: when you're working on both en: and shared, moving to and fro between them, sometimes it can be quite annoying to have to look for written details (tabs, url, whatever) to find out where you are, since both are written in English. I'd like to propose the adoption of a more distinctive identity (maybe a slightly different logo or colour scheme) for Shared in order to avoid this kind of confusion. Any ideas are welcome -- (WT-shared) Ricardo (Rmx) 22:59, 7 August 2006 (EDT)
 * I'd say we should activate/create different skins. That should sort the problem since a contributor may then choose his/her own preferred skin type. I suggest you take the issue to Project:Technical requests. (WT-shared) Riggwelter 17:24, 26 August 2006 (EDT)

SPAM filter is too stringent
Guys, I thought I'd spend my good-deed-of-the-day to the Wikivoyage community and report my travel experiences for Willemstad (Curacao) in a NEW article. Seems you don't want it, because my content gets rejected each time, because the SPAM filter thinks I'm inserting commercial content.

Honestly, what the heck is wrong with the following sentence..! "Rentals can be had from US$35/day and up (ex CDW), so given the added flexibility and the fact that most of the interesting sights are out of town, you're well advised to shop around a little. Try the panel with hotels etc. at the arrivals/bagage claim for instance. Be prepared for a bit of a shabby car though; they're maltreated and have served a good 30K-50K kilometers typically.

Getting around by public transport is a clean an safe way of transport getting you to most of the central places. But it's a hassle to get to some of the sights. "

(... will it save this time?)


 * I do not really understand why that would be taken as spam. Have you tried to create a user name and log in? (WT-shared) Riggwelter 07:02, 24 August 2006 (EDT)

Shared on the navigation toolbar
I'd like to see Shared linked on the navigation toolbar of other language versions besides English, but I don't know which buttons to twist to make that happen. Can anybody please help? Thanks. (WT-shared) Ricardo (Rmx) 18:23, 19 August 2006 (EDT)
 * Yes, I could, but I think it is better to add the request on Project:Technical requests. (WT-shared) Riggwelter 06:51, 24 August 2006 (EDT)
 * If you are an admin you can edit the navigation toolbar at MediaWiki:sidebar. So, en:MediaWiki:Sidebar has the shared link, and is probably a good place to look for examples. --(WT-shared) Evan 16:55, 12 September 2006 (EDT)

Liaisons
I have created the page Project:Liaisons as a list over liaisons for the various language versions of Wikivoyage. Are you a liaison? Please add your name! (WT-shared) Riggwelter 17:22, 26 August 2006 (EDT)
 * Good, but that seems to be duplicating the liaison list that exists here. -- (WT-shared) Ricardo (Rmx) 21:24, 28 August 2006 (EDT)
 * Oops, so it does. So much for not reading properly...redirecting the article. (WT-shared) Riggwelter 04:57, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

Image credit template
I had created a Template:Imagecredit which I use to describe and credit images I upload. (e.g. see any link from this . The template also automatically puts a tag so it doesn't need to be categorised later.  So folks, please use it and feel free to discuss and make any changes (with care, because it is a template used by other pages too.

I was wondering if MediaWiki:Uploadtext could be tweaked so that the template gets preloaded into the summary box of Special:Upload. Basically, the following text needs to show up:

&mdash; (WT-shared) Ravikiran r 13:52, 27 August 2006 (EDT)


 * O... and I hadn't seen this either. The two need to be integrated perhaps? &mdash; (WT-shared) Ravikiran r 14:33, 27 August 2006 (EDT)


 * If they have not yet been added to Project:Templates, feel free to do so. (WT-shared) Riggwelter 08:38, 28 August 2006 (EDT)
 * I was had a look at the source code and remembering the html I learned ten years ago I was able to get the template to appear in the summary section by finding " " and adding the template like this:  . The only problem is I don't know how to edit this and if it would be worth the hassle.  Anyway, we'd probably need Evan to edit it. -- (WT-shared) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 23:14, 29 August 2006 (EDT)