Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub/2009

Quickboxes
Just noticed that the quickboxes are inconsistent with information. I noticed this when I gave Russia a quickbox...I copy/paste from Canada (which lacks electric, location, & time zone info), and then noticed that info was on the US quickbox. Browsing Russia's neighbors, it became evident that some lack electrical, time zone, calling code, or location. It's nothing major, but if anyone has some spare time...please go ahead and fix any incomplete quickboxes you find. (WT-en) AHeneen 05:29, 7 January 2009 (EST)


 * &rarr; Template_talk:Quickbar --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:52, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Strange characters in articles
Hi Folks,

I've noticed the the small phone icon in posts does not display properly.

I think it may be an encoding problem but I'm not sure where to look.

I have the problem in both Firefox 3 and IE 6

An example is here: Montreal/Cotes-des-Neiges

any ideas or suggestions?

(WT-en) Redbear 20:48, 12 January 2009 (EST)


 * Looks normal to me. Can you give a little more detailed description of the problem? Do you not see a phone icon at all? (WT-en) Texugo 20:56, 12 January 2009 (EST)
 * No phone icon, just a small rectangle with numbers, all the accented characters look ok (WT-en) Redbear
 * "Small rectangle" is the universal symbol for "my font doesn't have that character." For good or bad, Wikivoyage currently uses the "phone symbol" letter rather than a graphical icon.   Try installing the rest of the fonts for your system (particularly international fonts) and see if things get better. --
 * Any suggestion as to which font(s) I need? (WT-en) Redbear
 * I downloaded Arial Unicode MS it seems to have fixed the problem - Thanks for the help!!

Template or Markup Code for User Page?
Hi all,

I've tried to scrounge about for proper template/code to set up my User Page, and cannot find what I'm looking for. Any suggestions? (WT-en) WineCountryInn 15:31, 13 January 2009 (EST)


 * Project:User page help has some information and Project:Babel explains using the language boxes. There aren't really many templates meant for user pages, so often if you see a user page you like you can just view its source and copy what you like to your own page.  If you need help with HTML or other code issues just post a message on an appropriate talk page (such as Project:User page help) and someone will be able to help out.  If you have suggestions for creating better guidance for user pages please also share it as it would be great if our policy/help pages could be improved. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 15:49, 13 January 2009 (EST)

Is this a bug or my browser?
I woke up this morning to find the navigation bars on the left side of the screen occupying the full width of my browser. It means it is almost impossible to log in, read pages or edit. I cannot read any new pages that I have not visited recently, though the Pub is one page I had in my history from last night. But editing is a real mission because I am typing blind. -- (WT-en) Huttite 15:24, 13 January 2009 (EST)


 * There appear to be some caching / other issues going on today. I've seen the search bar extending full width after marking edits as patrolled, but reloading the page usually fixes the problem. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 15:45, 13 January 2009 (EST)


 * Just so you know, it's not just you, I'm having the same problem with all of the navigation bars running the full length of the screen. (WT-en) JYolkowski 18:57, 13 January 2009 (EST)

I have had the similar thing happen. But it only happens with short pages, ie when you patroll edits. Basically when a page is shorter than the length to the search bar the searchbar will go full length. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 19:07, 13 January 2009 (EST).
 * Going through my cache, it looks like they've changed main.css. I'll file a bug report as soon as I figure out how to do so.  (WT-en) JYolkowski 19:31, 13 January 2009 (EST)
 * See wts:WtTech:Recent change to main.css on en: is causing navigation bars to occupy full width of screen. (WT-en) JYolkowski 19:40, 13 January 2009 (EST)

It's on every page and I cannot do anything at the top of a page because I cannot see anything. I do not know how to fix it - I looked at that link ? ! (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 12:24, 14 January 2009 (EST).


 * I believe what happens depends on the browser one uses. I use IE6 - for technical reasons - and when I visit a page I can see the page load then it is overlaid by all the navigation pretty stuff. The page is still there, because I can tab into forms, but I cannot see what I am typing until the text is pushed down below the bottom of an overlaying panel. I used a friend's computer which has IE7 and it is not a problem. Seems silly I need to upgrade my web browser to read a website. And if I was at work, where IE6 is company standard because they haven't tested IE7 yet for application compatability, I know the reaction would be not our problem the web site has it's CCS formatting wrong! -- (WT-en) Huttite 15:15, 14 January 2009 (EST)


 * Problem resolved. I can see WikiTravel pages using my IE6 browser again! Many thanks to all who assisted in resolving this problem. -- (WT-en) Huttite 02:37, 17 January 2009 (EST)

Random page in specified country
I'm here to suggest a great new killer feature on wikivoyage! Suppose you're in some god-forsaken country and want to have fun. You navigate to the country's wikivoyage-page and hit "random site" and *ZAPP* you're in Leh, Ladakh, India. Fantastic! I know it will probably take som pretty thorough revisions of the wiki-media framework, but I'm just releasing the idea into the wild.

Greetings from Aarhus, Denmark. 23.12, 21. january 2009 (CET)
 * Thanks for your suggestion! We keep all of our feature requests on Wikivoyage Shared.  You can add a new feature request to the Shared:Category:Open feature requests.  (WT-en) LtPowers 19:27, 21 January 2009 (EST)

Spam filter
I'm getting a spam filter block when I try to edit Ireland. Is there any way to know which link is causing the problem? (WT-en) LtPowers 09:02, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * I removed an entry listing rates for adult calls. No link, but that seems to have fixed it. --(WT-en) Wandering 16:57, 26 January 2009 (EST)

User CSS customizations
On Wikipedia, I have extensive CSS and JavaScript customizations set (e.g. personal "monobook.css"), along with a different skin. Along with other benefits, this makes it very obvious when I get accidentally logged out on Wikipedia. Here, for some reason, my "p-personal" links ("preferences", "watchlist", etc.) display no different than if I was logged out, including displaying "My page" and "log in/create account". When I go over to Shared, it shows "log out" and "Aude".

1) Why do pages here display as if I'm logged out, even though I'm logged in?

2) I would like to customize my css file, but that feature appears to be disabled along with the alternative skins. Why?  Where can a request be made to enable these features?

(WT-en) Aude 13:05, 1 February 2009 (EST)


 * Caching on Wikivoyage is weird. Head on over to Shared and make a tech request. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:24, 1 February 2009 (EST)


 * Added: wts:WtTech:User css customizations and wts:WtTech:Personal links. Though, I see a lot of requests that are not completed yet. (WT-en) Aude 23:02, 1 February 2009 (EST)


 * Are other people seeing the "log in / create account" link at the top of the page, even when you are logged in? Or is it just me? (WT-en) Aude 23:04, 1 February 2009 (EST)


 * I had it, it was fixed, and now it's b0rked again *sigh* --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 08:36, 2 February 2009 (EST)

Phantom edit errors
I have been editing the article for Hamamatsu, and I have noticed that for certain listings, when I click on the listing's edit button, I get a pop-up error message in red, reading "Listing has been changed by somebody else. Please reload the page and reedit." For an example, try "Nakatajima Sand Dunes" under the See sections, or "Toraya" under budget eat section. Nobody else is actually editing the page, and the problem still exists even after purging the page. Anyone have an idea as to what is going on? (WT-en) Texugo 06:23, 8 February 2009 (EST)
 * I encountered the same problem when editing a listing on Newfoundland and Labrador. When I tried to edit the Cape Race listing using the edit form I got a red warning message, but no form. I found that if I purged the page cache (first, I think) and edited the listing via the page edit section link then the problem went away. I could then access/edit the listing using the edit listing form again. I suspect what the message means is that the pages in the cache and the database are not synchronised, so purging the cache is needed. The link to purge the page cache is at the bottom of the edit form page. - (WT-en) Huttite 06:55, 8 February 2009 (EST)
 * As I said, I tried purging the cache, and I did edit the Sand Dunes listing from the section link, but the individual edit link still didn't work afterward...(WT-en) Texugo 06:58, 8 February 2009 (EST)
 * What I did do was change the URL inside the listing tag. Perhaps it is the content of the listing tag itself that needs to be edited, not just the text after the tag. Perhaps try removing the listing tag then adding it back? Brutal, but ... you never know. - (WT-en) Huttite 07:08, 8 February 2009 (EST)
 * The listing editor is really buggy, which is a problem, since it's purpose is to make editing easier for new/casual users. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:28, 8 February 2009 (EST)

Wikivoyage sucks?


For anyone else? Page loading usually takes an incredible amount of time (~30 seconds per page?), although it occasionally works fine for about 5 minutes. I get logged out randomly, particularly when page loading is really slow. Occasionally I'll be logged in without my logged-in tabs (move, delete, etc.). These problems are occurring for me on Shared & other language versions as well. Am I wallowing alone in this server cesspool? Or is this happening to other users? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 10:44, 9 February 2009 (EST)
 * I don't seem to be having any trouble here. *crosses fingers* (WT-en) Texugo 10:57, 9 February 2009 (EST)
 * Pages are loading very slow already this morning. Now it is a bit better but still slower than normal (WT-en) jan 11:07, 9 February 2009 (EST) ...but the purging isse is back. I could not see the comment of Texugo before i entered my text and purged (WT-en) jan 11:09, 9 February 2009 (EST)


 * It's very sporadic for me. The site was unusable for most of the morning. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 16:47, 9 February 2009 (EST)


 * Very slow this morning. Quite a few too many connection errors.  Several connection refused errors.  Cached content seems okay, but recent change diffs are so slow as to be effectively unusable.  Sucks.  --(WT-en) Inas 22:05, 9 February 2009 (EST)


 * Swings from good to not even loading, like Ryan described. And here I thought it was just my internet connection... (WT-en) PerryPlanet Talk 12:02, 10 February 2009 (EST)


 * For the most part, the site is simply unusable for me (for editing purposes). It might be worthwhile to try and get IB's attention, but I'll abstain&mdash;dealing with them usually dampens my Wikivoyage enthusiasm. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 12:27, 10 February 2009 (EST)


 * Should be better now. (WT-en) KevinSours 15:37, 10 February 2009 (EST)

I emailed IB - here is their response for anyone who is curious:

Hello Ryan! Thank you for reporting the slowdown. We made significant updates to the page caches, et al. and the Wiki should be speedier than ever!

Cheers, Keith

-- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 16:20, 10 February 2009 (EST)


 * And so it appears --(WT-en) Inas 17:19, 10 February 2009 (EST)
 * for an hour or so, anyway.. --(WT-en) Inas 22:43, 10 February 2009 (EST)


 * Is there still a problem? I checked the webservers this morning and everything seems to be fine (WT-en) KevinSours 10:36, 11 February 2009 (EST)


 * Nevermind, I see it (WT-en) KevinSours 11:04, 11 February 2009 (EST)


 * Speed is back almost changing between zero & ok with minutes. Worked well for one hour but now i give up for today(WT-en) jan 16:08, 11 February 2009 (EST)

April 4th
The site was wholly unusable for more than a day&mdash;I couldn't so much as access articles. Anyone else having problems? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:23, 5 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Not yesterday, I wasn't. Today I was but just on one of my computers.  (WT-en) LtPowers 21:52, 5 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Unusable for much of Saturday and Sunday to me. Someone ask Brent Conver, who oversees travel sites including Wikivoyage at parent company Internet Brands, how this could be. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 22:37, 5 April 2009 (EDT)

Scheduled down time for maintenance
Tonight, 2/11, the site will be down for scheduled maintenance for about 3 hours beginning at 10PM PST. Visitors who come to the site during that time will see a "Down for Maintenance" page. We apologize for the inconvenience. JuCo 16:05, 11 February 2009 (EST)


 * Is it a problem for English version to update MediaWiki:Sitenotice ? -- (WT-en) Tatata 20:55, 11 February 2009 (EST)


 * I've done that. Admins, please revert my change after the maintenance work is finished. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:33, 11 February 2009 (EST)


 * Thank you for your patience during this week’s maintenance. We upgraded the hardware, the database server got a memory upgrade and we added an additional webserver. This will address the speed and timing out issues and make the site faster and more stable. We will be monitoring the site for any issues. Thanks! (WT-en) JuCo 15:52, 13 February 2009 (EST)


 * The upgrades are much appreciated. Thanks! -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 16:50, 13 February 2009 (EST)

As long as this issue appears every several months--maybe IB can establish an objective and publicly-available metrics of site performance? Percentage of pageviews that took 0-0.1s, 0.1-0.5s, 0.5-2s, 2-5s, 5-10s, 10+ seconds, shown in historical dynamics, would make much easier to understand whether particular user's problem is really a sitewide, or not. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 22:02, 14 February 2009 (EST)

Watch listing a user
User:The NOW seems to have some pretty adamant ideas about racism and homosexuality in the south, is there any way to watch list registered users so I/we don't accidentally miss some of his (at times rather offensive) edits? --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 18:22, 17 February 2009 (EST)

When to travel?
I was trying to find information which places of the world are good to travel around in a given period, and I cannot find the right place. First, I tried months - but May and so on are parts of the calendar of events, and tell you nothing about whether the given places are warm, cold, subject to hurricanes or such. Then I tried continents, but Europe and such are also silent on this subject :( --(WT-en) Piotrus 14:08, 25 February 2009 (EST)
 * Many articles do have sections on climate, but not all. An entire continent like Europe is too big to generalize about climate.  And most locations will have things to do and see all year round; there is no one best time to go.  (WT-en) LtPowers 10:52, 25 February 2009 (EST)
 * Let me rephrase my question, just like my parents put it to me: "We want to go to somewhere warm around late May / early June. Were would that be?" I'd wager there are more people asking similar question. Thus my suggestion that wikivoyage may want to have an answer to give them. Personally, I think that adding information about climates to the months articles would be the way to go, something along the way: "May is the warm season in... cold and snow can be found in... bad wheater makes ... not good but... and so on." --(WT-en) Piotrus 14:08, 25 February 2009 (EST)


 * Definitely support creating a best-place-for-each-season list. I think it'll be easier to start with a single article, broken down into sections by months. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 12:53, 28 February 2009 (EST)

xkcd
Wikivoyage is mentioned in a xkcd webcomic http://xkcd.com/548/! --(WT-en) Flip666 writeme! • 09:16, 25 February 2009 (EST)


 * Nice :) --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 18:52, 25 February 2009 (EST)


 * Of course! Wikivoyage = Hitchhikers guide! 97.91.175.19 19:59, 11 March 2009 (EDT)

Renaming Articles
Could somebody direct me to the instructions on re-naming/ post it here. Thankyou(WT-en) HJ.Phillips94 16:18, 25 February 2009 (EST)


 * I've been an admin for a bit too long, but don't you have a move tab on the top of your screen? -> click it and type in the new name of the page, voila! but remember to check What links here in the box on the left side of your screen too before moving anything --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 18:51, 25 February 2009 (EST)

Open Street Map
For those using Open Street Map maps, or considering the use of them, the OSMF board has released the proposed new licence text. For those interesting in mapping using OSM data, would likely be aware that the licence conditions on OSM data has always been unclear, possibly requiring CC-BY-SA 2.0, and acknowledgement of every individual data producer, on every map produced by any means, and the release of any source data that is combined with the OSM data into a derived work. The proposed licence would intends to allow a category of works called Produced Works that could be released under a different licence, as long as they are not reverse engineered back to a database. This would hopefully make the licence status of wikivoyage maps derived from OSM data, as well as the status of any collective work using OSM data, and allow them to be released all under the Wikivoyage SA licence. See. This position is not without it detractors, however, with people maintaining that this doesn't offer enough share-alike protection to a derived work. If you have been involved in the OSM project, or are a member of the OSMF, or just interested, then you may care to offer your opinion on the wiki, or at Open Data Commons. --(WT-en) Inas 18:10, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Procedures for changing article status to usuable and guide
I understand the criteria for usuable and guide status, but did not find any explanation to the procedures for changing the status. Could someone explain? --(WT-en) ClausHansen 21:58, 1 March 2009 (EST)


 * Have a look at Project:City_guide_status. In short, just update the tag yourself, when you feel it meets the criteria.  If someone disagrees with you, then discuss and reach consensus. --(WT-en) Inas 22:14, 1 March 2009 (EST)

How did someone get my email address?
I recently got emailed by someone on Wikivoyage. When I asked how he got my address, he said through the Wikivoyage email form. What is that? Does that actually exist? If it does, I don't know anything about it. What's up? (WT-en) Paula 03:36, 2 March 2009 (EST)


 * When someone views your user page, there is a link to send you an email. It doesn't reveal your email address, just sends it to you.  It explains this in your preferences, "E-mail address is optional, but it enables others to contact you through your user or user_talk page without needing to reveal your identity." --(WT-en) Inas 03:45, 2 March 2009 (EST)


 * Important: if you email someone via wiki, then your email address (from your settings) will be in "from:" field of the email. -- (WT-en) Sergey kudryavtsev 06:48, 2 March 2009 (EST)


 * Ah. Thanx. Got a splash of paranoia for a sec there.(WT-en) Paula 03:40, 3 March 2009 (EST)


 * You know, when you emailed him back to ask how he got your email, he probably got yours in the process. Just fyi :) -99.237.234.116 00:44, 20 April 2009 (EDT)

Help rating Rail Travel in the UK
Would welcome some thoughts on the rating for the travel topic Rail travel in the UK. Since I contributed much of the material on the page, I've added a page rating with some trepidation (following the guide for rating travel topics as far as I can). Suggestions and challenges to that rating appreciated. Thanks (WT-en) Jamesbrownontheroad 12:30, 3 March 2009 (EST)

list of airport articles
I wonder if we have any single place where all airport articles are listed.

What can be a right place for that -- a section in Travel topics? Or they are better grouped via Category:Airports? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:51, 3 March 2009 (EST)


 * Don't we only to have like 3 of those; O'Hare International Airport, Heathrow Airport and Kansai International Airport, they tend to be deleted when they pop up


 * On a similar note; Barajas, Frankfurt, Charles De Gaule, Changhi, LAX and JFK - would be useful additions, though again, we have that bloody vague "city like" policy written down somewhere. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 22:03, 10 March 2009 (EDT)
 * JFK was specifically merged to New York (city) by consensus at VFD. The rule of thumb in play appears to involve the amount of information about the airport that is present in the Get In section of the city article -- if it gets to be too much, we can split it, but it's a very high bar.  (WT-en) LtPowers 22:19, 10 March 2009 (EDT)


 * Well, there we have it. A single place where all the airport articles are listed.  --(WT-en) Inas 23:35, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

Israel Regions
User:(WT-en) Govrin has a proposal for updating the Israel region hierarchy at Talk:Israel and has requested feedback. Could anyone who knows the region comment? Much obliged. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 16:04, 11 March 2009 (EDT)


 * No feedback was given, so Govrin plunged forward and I regret to say that (IMHO) the result is an even worse mess than before. I've rolled back for time being, but additional comments would be very welcome. (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:04, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

Proper Namespace
Hi, I'm new to wikivoyage and there is one thing I just can't figure out. My contribution is to the Sai page. All the other pages I've seen have a Asia:East:Japan categorization. For example, Mutsu is a city close to Sai. Mutsu has the list of locations at the top under the title. When I started the page, I went to the Shimokita Peninsula area and created a link for Sai, but when I clicked on it, the page didn't have the location categorization. Does anyone know why? Thanks (WT-en) Marie438 21:40, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Hi. I think you are talking about creating the right breadcrumb navigation for the article.  See Project:Breadcrumb navigation for information on doing that.  Let us know if it doesn't answer your question.  --(WT-en) Inas 21:46, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Fixed. Your only problem was that when implementing breadcrumb navigation, you have to use underscores instead of spaces, i.e. instead of  - (WT-en) Texugo 02:12, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Thanks! I really appreciate the help.(WT-en) Marie438 02:18, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Actually, if you use IsPartOf, you don't need the underscore. (WT-en) LtPowers 08:21, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Ah, true. I forgot about that. But it was originally IsIn and I changed it. (WT-en) Texugo 08:49, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Robot.txt on userpages
Do we disallow google crawling on our user pages, so stuff like User:(WT-en) Beyaz's user page, or User:(WT-en) HotelsCombined and his alter ego's for that matter, doesn't use our very hard work, to inflate their/other users commercial and copyrighted websites google ranking? --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 20:37, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Just looking at robots.txt, it doesn't look like it. Personally, I'm not adverse to allowing valued contributors to help their Google rankings by having a few links on their user page.  Obviously, the first example is not a good example of a valued contributor (although HotelsCombined does seem to have contributed to articles).  If we think this is a problem, I would suggest we look at policing user page content more.  (WT-en) JYolkowski 21:28, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Something else that just occurred to me is that, if someone doesn't contribute at all except to their userpage, there won't be any links to it unless someone inadvertently links to it on the Traveller's Pub (-: so search engines wouldn't be able to find it anyway (since they aren't allowed to read the special pages). (WT-en) JYolkowski 22:05, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
 * For reference: most pages excluded from search engines, such as all previous versions of any page, are done with tags in the page source (e.g.,   ) instead of robots.txt. User pages are indeed indexed (like so!) – and to my surprise, so are Talk pages, including User_talk space.  In contrast, wikipedia does exclude talk. - (WT-en) Dguillaime 01:20, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

April Fool's Day
Haven't seen any proposals so far for April Fool's Day, so I'd like to throw this out there as a possibility. (WT-en) PerryPlanet Talk 12:51, 23 March 2009 (EDT)


 * Brilliant! Let's get to work. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:55, 23 March 2009 (EDT)


 * Last call on this&mdash;it goes live tomorrow. So lets everyone chip something in by the end of the day! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:58, 30 March 2009 (EDT)

Airline alliances
So I recently took the time to start this off - mainly as a help to writing airport sections, since there is an increasing trend of colocation of the airlines alliances around worlds airports - and hence instead of listing each and every airline, you can now simply write something like:
 * Terminal 2 - Handles all international flights except Star Alliance flights and the other airlines listed below.
 * Terminal 3 - Handles international flights from Star Alliance member airlines as well as Estonian air, Iceland air, Skyways and some Cimber Sterling flights.

Which I suspect also would be the case for most airports around the world these days. But, i'm only familiar with StarAlliance, since that's where rack up my frequent flyer miles, and I think it's a rather important travel topic, so if someone could help getting some general information added, I'd be most appreciative. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 07:33, 27 March 2009 (EDT)

Admin action on South East (China)‎
Somebody is having fun there on our expense. --(WT-en) Rein N. 13:39, 30 March 2009 (EDT)
 * blocked for a day, a little too much action going on there for my taste --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 13:44, 30 March 2009 (EDT)
 * I don't have that special buttons here, so I had to ask for assistance. Thanks. --(WT-en) Rein N. 13:49, 30 March 2009 (EDT)

Creating maps
I have read the guidelines on creating maps and my understanding is that real Wikivoyage maps can only be created from a computer using Linux. Is that correct? And if yes, is there a way to create temporary maps on other computers which can subsequently be upgrated to Wikivoyage maps by people with Linux access? --(WT-en) ClausHansen 10:23, 10 April 2009 (EDT)


 * You don't need Linux access to create a WT style map, but without it, you will need to do a lot of work in Inksckape. The guide to using Inkscape for WT style maps is here. You can partially automate the process per Project:How_to_create_a_map. If you are running into any hitches, please feel free to ask me any questions on my talk page. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:50, 10 April 2009 (EDT)

Using API
Hello!

I'm interested in knowledge, how to use API? I found API manual: http://en.wikivoyage.org/w/api.php, but every example link on it does not seem to work. Do I have to log in to get just the contents of one page of a certain country? Or does anyone have an example, how to use API? Thanks in advance! (WT-en) Agsel 21:02, 12 April 2009 (EDT)


 * Hello can I bump this, tried the examples on the api page and they return empty datasets, do I need to be logged in? Tried that, didn't help, anyone with any knowledge on this it would be appreciated. Thanks.(WT-en) Dageshi 07:01, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

Wikimedia & Creative Commons
Wikipedia is currently holding a referendum on dual licensing content, including wikipedia, to CC-by-sa 3.0. For those of you who are also Wikipedians, I'd encourage you to head over and vote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/1). This also raises some questions I believe. We could start taking a crack at this now, or wait till we have the outcome, where we most certainly will need to discuss this. I've also been looking a bit at Travellers point who also license their content CC-by-sa 3.0. Comments appreciated :) --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 00:56, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
 * 1) If this goes through, can users copy 3.0 licensed content to WT, since we use 1.0?
 * 2) Do we want WP content? (I can think if many cases where we do want it, but also see the pitfalls)
 * 3) What about attribution? If we are to welcome WP content, how do we deal with this?


 * No. IB's legal team has ok'd a move to a cc-by-sa any license for all text on site, but the move never happened due to community opposition. I'd be happy if we revisited that to allow newer interested users to comment. See wts:WtTech:License upgrade.
 * Sometimes. Dealing with WP dumps would be a headache, but we'd also gain a lot in being able to mishmash together ready-made history sections from their site. We'd probably have to create a new policy page to figure out how to deal with dumped text, since for the most part we still will want original, travel-oriented writing.
 * We follow WP's lead, since they will need to deal with that as well. My guess is that they'll play looser with the attribution requirement than we would (by, for example, declaring the page history to provide due attribution). In that case, we could do something like use a template at the bottom of the page, linking to the history of the appropriate WP article(s).


 * This is all purely moot, however, until/if we move to an updated CC license. Our current license has terrible incompatibility issues, which owe their origins to the fact that the CC 1.0 was basically CC's first draft, and which have been corrected in all later versions. As of now, our text license pretty much restricts us from cooperating with any other sites that use the CC-by-SA license. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:19, 14 April 2009 (EDT)


 * Yeah, I saw that today too. With regards to #2, I think sections like history and climate would do well copied from WP (but only sections if it's too long). It might also help for lots of travel topics and phrasebooks (namely the usage/history & phonetics sections). For #3, is it possible to mess with the wiki software for this site to include a checkbox (like "this is a minor edit" & "Watch this page") labeled "Copied from Wikipedia" which would require the editor to insert the name/address of the WP article used and automatically place a link to the history of that WP page after the edit's listing on the WT article. The license at the bottom of the WT article could then include "Parts of this page may be the original work of contirbuters to the Wikipedia articles: [en.wikipedia.org/wikivoyage Wikivoyage], etc."? It sounds complicated, but it's the best method I can think of right now to solve the problem of attribution. (WT-en) AHeneen 01:24, 14 April 2009 (EDT)


 * The community opposition to the upgrade was quite minimal (only 2 users, though they repeated their arguments several times)... I don't think we were toooo far off from building a consensus to upgrade... it would just be nice to have a bit more legal input from someone in the know – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 14:33, 14 April 2009 (EDT)


 * I would certainly be one of the two who opposes an upgrade. No upgrade should or could be undertaken in just a matter of weeks or a few months.  It would have to be a process that would be drawn out over at least a year to cover our asses in the legal issues.  World 66, which I see has been taken offline, upgraded from the GNUFDL to CC by-SA 1.0 several years ago.  In the process, they supposedly allowed any user who had ever contributed to World66, or whatever its predecessor's name was to opt-out and have all their previous content removed and all other content contributed by others was re-licensed.  But, as the CC ShareAlike license ensures derivative work is also open source that means that derivative content produced with the content of the contributor who opts-out could be a possible source of legal messiness.


 * If this can or worms is going to be re-opened, I would want Internet Brands to conference call admins and other community members to allow a Q and A, because we will be fielding questions about a change over. Not to mention, I'd want to hear that I am protected from any legal issues and that IB would be the ones held responsible if some fiasco did arise.


 * That aside, I really don't see much benefit from a license "upgrade." First of all, the only real content that we are missing out on as a result of the CC-by-SA 1.0 license are a few maps, some photos, and historical information from WP and the like.  That's not so bad, because a contributor could send an email to someone and simply ask a photographer to dual license a photo under CC-by-SA 1.0 and whatever other license the photographer wanted to use.  Secondly, our content is still open source even with the CC-by-SA 1.0 license.  Maybe it's not as "open" as I would like it to be or others would like it to be, but a whole other issues can be opened up if the community says: Hey, let's change the license from CC-by-SA 1.0, to include all CC-by-SA licenses like I did for Wikimmigrant.  The problem that I have with Wikimmigrant is that the content on Wikimmigrant could be used by Wikivoyage and anyone else who uses a CC-by-SA license (including 2.0, 2.5, and 3.0), but with a multi-licensed site, Wikimmigrant cannot take content from other sources even if the other content is licensed as CC-by-SA 3.0, because the other content has to be licensed under CC-by-SA 1.0, 2.0, 2.5, and 3.0 (possibly even later versions).  All in all, I just think that an upgrade is not worth the hassle.  We missed out on the 2.0 license years ago and that did not cause Wikivoyage to fail.  Be honest, but an upgrade is not so essential to Wikivoyage.  If it were, we wouldn't have amassed a collection of 20K+ articles, or been awarded a Webby, or named as one of Time's 50 Best Websites. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 23:50, 18 April 2009 (EDT)


 * Thanks for the legal advice, but you appear to be very confused on a number of these issues. Rather obvious among which is our ability to use images and other files with a different CC-by-SA license&mdash;we already do this. In any rate, you are commenting in the wrong place, if you wish to continue this discussion, please do so in the original thread. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:57, 19 April 2009 (EDT)


 * I think Sapphire is right on reusing content on Wikimmigrant, but that's because Wikimmigrant is multilicensed. A site that was singly-licensed CC-by-sa-3.0 wouldn't have that problem (because any CC license after 1.0 can be freely upgraded to a later version; not so going backwards).  (Also, note Sapphire said "content"; images are a special case for a couple of reasons that I won't go into here.)  (WT-en) LtPowers 15:58, 19 April 2009 (EDT)

→ Please continue discussion at wts:WtTech:License upgrade

Site Down tonight, 4/15
We will be down for scheduled maintenance Wednesday April 15th @ 10pm PST for approximately 4 hours. We thank you for your patience. (WT-en) JuCo 20:08, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

GPS coordinates
As someone who always travels with a GPS unit, I would find it extremely useful if all important points (sights, pubs, train stations...) would have a GPS coordinates listed. Even in a city, it is often much easier to find something by its coordinates than by street. Would it be possible to start adding the coordinates? There should be some standard formatting and standard coordinate system to use... (WT-en) Kyknos 14:28, 21 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Many of our listings do include latitude and longitude, but they aren't displayed in the article. Do you have any suggestions on the most useful way to display them?  (WT-en) LtPowers 14:43, 21 April 2009 (EDT)


 * Re: how to add coordinates, in any listing, you can add lat & long ( *  ), and we also have a standard geo template: (where you would replace the "lat" and "long" with actual numbers). --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:48, 21 April 2009 (EDT)


 * I'd also suggest adding points of interest directly to OpenStreetMap, from where they can be reasonably easily reimported into Wikivoyage maps. (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:48, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Using API
Hello!

I'm interested in knowledge, how to use API? I found API manual: http://en.wikivoyage.org/w/api.php, but every example link on it does not seem to work. Do I have to log in to get just the contents of one page of a certain country? Or does anyone have an example, how to use API? Thanks in advance! (WT-en) Agsel 21:02, 12 April 2009 (EDT)


 * Hello can I bump this, tried the examples on the api page and they return empty datasets, do I need to be logged in? Tried that, didn't help, anyone with any knowledge on this it would be appreciated. Thanks.(WT-en) Dageshi 07:01, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

Admin action needed
Somebody is having fun on our expense moving lots pages. please stop this vandal. --(WT-en) Rein N. 09:14, 2 May 2009 (EDT)


 * Blocked and reverted. Mediawiki's pretty good these days at reverting even attempted redirect loops... (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:24, 2 May 2009 (EDT)

What does Wiki Travel use to Create the add listing popup forms?
Ive searched and searched for this and cannot find what it is that is used to make the really nice looking forms that appear when you click on an "add listing" link at the side. Is this something available as an extra for mediawiki or was it coded especially for wikivoyage/Appreciate any help and im hoping that one of the admins know the answer —The preceding comment was added by 200.105.167.66 (talk • contribs).

This was written specifically for wikivoyage, primarily by me. (WT-en) KevinSours 17:45, 7 May 2009 (EDT)

Is there anywhere on Wikivoyage for odd useful hints?
for example: "if you are in Japan in Golden Week and have no reservations, try a Toyoko-inn in a town which isn't in your guidebook". [Comment added by David Fremlin.]
 * It's case-by-case. Your example would go in Japan.  (WT-en) LtPowers 08:16, 5 May 2009 (EDT)
 * Thanks, I've done that. [DHF]

Smartphone apps
Hi. My name's Jon Evans. I'm planning to write a Google Android and (subsequently) an iPhone app that would allow people to easily add to WikiTravel directly from their smartphones - but obviously I don't want to reinvent the proverbial wheel. Do such apps already exist?

The advantages are hopefully obvious: people will be able to write about where they are, rather than relying on memory, and will very easily be able include both on-the-spot pictures and GPS coordinates. (Though it's easier to type on a computer than a smartphone, obviously, so I'm also planning to have a "remind me to write about this place later" feature.)

I'm a software engineer turned adventure traveller turned novelist (see my web site rezendi.com for far more than you ever wanted to know about me) doing this partly for fun, partly to shake the rust off my software skills.

Thanks for any advice/help. (WT-en) Rezendi 15:14, 12 May 2009 (EDT)


 * A few apps along these lines have been built, but I'm sure they could use your help! See Project:Offline Reader Expedition. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:36, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

Sharing pictures for use on Wikivoyage
I've been making a few edits to the Wikivoyage guide for Kyoto and I observed that the "Central Kyoto" section under "See" could use a few more pictures. I have some photographs that might fit the bill, but I'm a little protective of my personal travel album so I'm unwilling to release any of them in their original form under Wikivoyage's prescribed licences. On the other hand, I'd be glad to release smaller, substantially resized versions (say, 800x600 or less) under the prescribed licences or even turn them loose into the public domain, provided I can keep full copyright over the original versions.

So here's the question: if I release reduced-size versions of my photographs under a CC-BY-SA compatible licence (or into the public domain) for use on Wikivoyage - and with the full understanding that anyone can do anything with them in accordance with those licences - will I retain full copyright over the originals?

Many thanks. --(WT-en) Diego de Manila 02:34, 21 May 2009 (EDT)


 * If you are wary of reuse, i'd encourage you NOT to release anything to the public domain, but yes to other question - you only grant permission to reuse the said image, and you can clarify under the license section that you are only granting permission to reuse the low res version. There is an example here: http://shared.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Image:Nenets_reindeer_sledge.jpg#Licensing


 * And thanks for info on my Kyoto Railway map btw, I'll try to get that updated soon. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 05:46, 21 May 2009 (EDT)


 * Thanks for the advice and the very helpful example. I'll think twice about releasing anything into the PD, but the prescribed licences now look like a viable option. --(WT-en) Diego de Manila 08:29, 21 May 2009 (EDT)


 * I'd still recommend you release the full-sized pictures (at least 3000x2000 or equiv), since 800x600 is too small to be used in print, and we'll just have to dike 'em out once the day comes for Wikivoyage Press to create its Kyoto guide.


 * FWIW, I used to think the same way you did, and only uploaded dinky little 800x600 versions here. Then I realized there was no reason not to share (is your pic worth more gathering dust on a hard disk, or being shared with the whole world via WT?), CC-licensed my entire photo collection some 10+ years in the making, and am slowly and painfully upgrading my old pics here as I stumble into them. (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:18, 21 May 2009 (EDT)


 * I checked out your pictures and noticed it says copyright at the bottom and clicking on the "copyright" says: "All text, pictures and code contained within these pages and their subsidiary servers are copyright 1996-2003 Jani Patokallio. Personal use is generally OK but credit me for it, anything else requires permission.  Link freely but only to addresses under iki.fi (see the tech notes for an explanation), otherwise the links can and will be broken." That doesn't say/resemble CC. (WT-en) AHeneen 20:55, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

Pointer to discussion
I posted a question last week at Project:Article templates. Would appreciate any input. (WT-en) LtPowers 10:21, 23 May 2009 (EDT)

Question
I know it's going to sound really weird but I think the site is a little more complicated than it looks. I have a really important question and have been reading every page I could. Finally decied to ask, and it's probably because of my poor tech skill, but could anybody please tell me how to post a question? Not by editing another one that already exists, but creating a new topic. It says at the bottom of the page, but I cannot find it. 81.214.7.120 06:26, 26 May 2009 (EDT)Banu81.214.7.120 06:26, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
 * Your best bet is to go to the top of a discussion page and click the "+" tab, right between "edit" and "history". =)  (WT-en) LtPowers 09:17, 26 May 2009 (EDT)

Wikivoyage maps question help
Hi there! I'm trying to make a map similar to Pittsburgh's road map by PerryPlanet for Portland (OR) but I have come to an obstacle. Maybe it's just a silly issue but i am very new to the program. Anyways Portland has an interesting river geography, with islands and everything. So I am using the Wikivoyage template and tracing from OpenStreetMaps, and using water. Well the water has a darker layer around the edges, like turquoise-teal, which is fine, but I'm going around an island, and when they meet back up they're two different things now I suppose and there is a big line in what would be the middle of the river and it looks retarded. How do I fix this? (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 15:17, 26 May 2009 (EDT).

Why is this website written as if every tourist were white?
It is. You can't deny this; take a look at Germany and the section about Turks/Arabs. Also, I didn't know Russians were non-white, that's news to me (and offensive).

Not only this, my problem with this site is that none of it is sourced. Unlike Wikipedia, there seems to be no sourcing whatsoever. This is potentially critically important on a travel site where people may have printed off a document. One bit of vandalism to a route number and it could cause serious problems to people.--(WT-en) Clyde Cash 18:33, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
 * I am a complete mixture, I look kinda like Tiger Woods if I was to give an example of what I was like racially but taller, broader and more muscular; I was born to an African American-Mexican American father and a Russian-American mother and I have lived in Scotland for 8 years, and my girlfriend is British Chinese. Please don't assume things. I also have Asperger syndrome.--(WT-en) Clyde Cash 18:41, 1 May 2009 (EDT)


 * Well, since I can't deny this, I will have trouble responding to your point. But this website is actually written by some 50,000 people, so it must just be that we've succumbed to group think on a very large scale. More to the point though, if you see something that you think can be improved, plunge forward and fix it yourself!


 * Regarding sourcing, have you ever seen a travel guide that provided footnotes? We try to keep things fair, and the "proofing" mechanism that wikis provide (anyone can correct any error) is generally a lot more foolproof than trusting some drug dealer's second hand information.  --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:57, 1 May 2009 (EDT)


 * The Stay Safe section of the Germany article certainly could use some editing. Would you be interested in giving it a shot, Clyde?  (WT-en) LtPowers 19:03, 1 May 2009 (EDT)


 * Lest anyone be confused, Clyde is engaged in a silly bit of provocation that doesn't really warrant a response unless you're really bored &mdash; and in that event, stimulating alternatives such as alphabetizing your socks might still be preferable. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 19:05, 1 May 2009 (EDT)


 * Couple comments to this. I'm trying to familiarize myself with Wikivoyage. On the Buenos Aires page I thought there were sections that were irresponsibly written and I also thought sourcing might police the situation, though reading the Style differences note, I agree with the approach. I don't think this comment is not worth (limited) discussion though. I'm not sure how differences in reporting will play themselves out. As for me, I have taken (WT-en) LtPowers invitation to heart and tried to fix inconsistencies, contradictions and so on. Hopefully my efforts will be appreciated rather than annoy.--(WT-en) EKMSID 02:12, 4 July 2009 (EDT)

Well, I can't say to speak for the whole of Germany, I've been there several times. I've also been to Romania and Bulgaria several times, and Finland as well. The problem is with sourcing. Wikipedia relies on accurate sources for every statement. This site, it has NONE of that. None whatsoever! It's bullshit if you believe people should go printing off articles and some person entering bullshit could make people change their route I mean WTF? That shit is not on.-(WT-en) Clyde Cash 19:40, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
 * We are not Wikipedia. Check out Project:Welcome, Wikipedians, which explains how we are different.  If you don't trust our travel guides without references, don't use them.  Plenty of other people do.  (WT-en) LtPowers 21:45, 1 May 2009 (EDT)


 * But seriously. Please show me a travel guide that lists sources. And what sources would we list anyway? Have you actually thought about it? Should we list the local phone book as a source for each hotel listing, Rand McNally for every set of directions we give? (WT-en) Texugo 01:15, 1 August 2009 (EDT)
 * Or we could all just stop beating around the bush and say to clyde that if you don't like the way things are written here and you do not want to plunge forward and make changes, then maybe you should leave and find a different website. Simple. (WT-en) Joshuadrooney 05:25, 18 August 2009 (EDT)
 * Sorry, but I just read this and I fail to see how one could include sources in a travel guide? Eh, what are people supposed to do? The street scape of Prague is a must see... please refer to this for proof? I mean, that's a nonsense comment. (WT-en) LikeThatWillHappen 21:28, 10 October 2009 (GMT)

My problem is that nearly every article assumes that the reader will not like the local cuisine because it is too spicy/salty/sweet/ethnic for them and goes on to recommend a whole bunch of "western" fast food chains. Even for culinary meccas such as Hong Kong, Tokyo and Singapore. I love how Lonely Planet's guide to Beijing says, "There's a lot of Starbucks, we'll leave it up to you to figure out where they are." (WT-en) Rickvaughn 22:24, 23 October 2009 (CST)


 * In general, I agree, but there are exceptions. I live in China and mostly eat Chinese food. When I travel to Yangshuo, I want the guide to tell me where the good Western food is. In Hong Kong, I'm looking for the Indian places, since there are none where I live. If I visit Beijing, I'd like to know where to find good coffee. (For me, Starbucks does not qualify.) Also, there are places where Western fast food may be a good option, see the last paragraph of China for example. (WT-en) Pashley 00:01, 24 October 2009 (EDT)


 * Actually, Singapore doesn't have a single "western" fast food chain listed. It has a couple of local chains offering local food, and it does have a bunch of good Western restaurants, because most travellers start yearning for familiar food after a few solid weeks of nasi goreng or pad thai...


 * I do agree, though, that Wikivoyage's food coverage is generally pretty weak, and I make a point of trying to improve it whenever I can. (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:43, 24 October 2009 (EDT)


 * The reason WikiTravel is good is because it contains LOADS of information and people aren't scared to add their anecdotal information to it. If a page says something like "The train between Algiers and Oran is fast but use 1st class because 2nd class is overcrowded" I'm glad that they've told me the train is fast and second class is overcrowded in some peoples opinions: if I don't mind overcrowded trains, I will use 2nd class anyway, but its interesting to read someone's opinion. The same with the food, its nice to hear someones opinion and very informative, but at the end of the day everyone has different standards, and this is not a problem. If you think this website is too 'posh' for you, read it with a pinch of salt! There's a wealth of great information to be inferred from this site by ANYONE of any social background. (WT-en) Unnachamois 12:21, 17 February 2010 (EST)

Image Uploads
Is there any easy way to move pictures uploaded here, to shared - or do you have to vfd them, download them, upload them on shared with a different name, and change the link it the article? (WT-en) Sertmann 06:16, 30 October 2008 (EDT)


 * You have to re-upload them to Shared, but once you do that you can speedy delete it here, noting in the edit summary that you moved to shared. There's no need to change the title either, it can remain the same – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 12:13, 30 October 2008 (EDT)


 * Hmmm, don't I need admin privileges to speedy anything? (WT-en) Sertmann 15:57, 30 October 2008 (EDT)


 * Yes... so you'll be able to do yourself most likely after another week :) If there's some you want done now, leave a note on my talk page and I can do for you, or you can also just list them on VFD and an admin will do – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 19:43, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

I've been wondering... if the goal is to have all images uploaded at shared, what purpose is served by still allowing uploads to :en? The &lt;font size=HUGE&gt; warning is routinely ignored. - (WT-en) Dguillaime 14:45, 23 February 2009 (EST)


 * This has been fixed at last, the upload button now takes you to shared :) – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 11:18, 11 June 2009 (EDT)

All of a sudden listings pulled
I have been updating my listings for audio walking tours and all of a sudden they are getting pulled because of external link violations. Only thing different that I did was add a link to the mobile site and the android application... Does anyone know if that possibly could be the reason? Thanks 98.210.115.180 14:58, 3 February 2009 (EST)


 * See Project:Where you can stick it. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 15:13, 3 February 2009 (EST)

Because people here pull stuff that is NOT TOS violations. Sertman is a great example of this practice. He just pulls some lsitings, while leaving others. Apparently, he especially likes to pull listings for small business, many of whom who actually contribute material, while leaving listings for giant corporations. Like any CEOs from fortune 500 companies are contributing anything worthwhile. Wiki needs a better structure, too many petty people with hypocritical standards are huring the site too much. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) ACTransport (talk • contribs)


 * I presume you are referring to the deletion of your limo service (and plenty of others) from Atlantic City? This is a bit of a borderline case, but they certainly don't belong under "See". (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:50, 5 February 2009 (EST)


 * Try and appreciate what we are trying to do. We are trying to build a travel site that is relevant to traveler.  Not to meet the needs of business owners small or large.  Feel free to join the many discussions across the site about how to best accomplish that goal, and incorporate business owners listings in the most useful and relevant way.  I don't see any evidence here that anyone has an axe to grind with small business owners, or hypocritical standards.  Each person is trying their best to follow policy and build a guide as best they can. --(WT-en) Inas 00:58, 5 February 2009 (EST)


 * Yeah, thanks for singling me out, sigh, if you'd care to elaborate and give me some specific examples of this practice, I'd be happy to go back and revise such changes. The only business owners I can recall who've actually stayed and contributed this place is User:(WT-en) HotelsCombined and User:(WT-en) WineCountryInn, if I've missed any such user I'd genuinely really like to know. And the notion that I support fortune 500 companies over small businesses is very much wrong, when I travel I always prefer sleeping or dining at small personal businesses, and hence actually prefer seeing them listed here on wikivoyage so I have a better chance to find them. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 02:19, 5 February 2009 (EST)


 * And a great example of what happens if we leave Wikivoyage to the whims of business owners look here (Rome), please tell me how a huge pile of listings with little information but links to their website, compare that to a well moderated sleep section like Copenhagen's downtown, I dare you to come up with some convincing arguments that the Rome example is more useful to travellers. Besides I fail to see how you can justify these accusations since all you ever did around here was to add a link to your business. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 03:00, 5 February 2009 (EST)

Project:Collaboration of the month
Our collaboration(s) of the week/month project has been broken for over a year now, with the collaborations getting little if any attention, and even the collaboration process going without updates on a regular basis. We've tossed around a lot of different ideas to rejuvenate the process, and I'd like to see the latest incarnation get a fighting chance.

Please stop by the Project:Collaboration of the month page to see what's changed, take a look at the tasks we're hoping to accomplish for this month's collaboration (Mexico City), and try to make a few edits over the rest of this month to our collaboration! I'm sure everyone has the time to make some mos edits to even just one "Mid-range" section of one "Eat" section of one district article. Plunge forward! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:12, 5 February 2009 (EST).

articles by region
Hi all, I would like to make a map of where all wikivoyage articles are located based on region. e.g. what percentage of articles are about Asia, Europe, Africa etc. Is there any way to obtain this information?

Thanks very much!

09:48, 1 June 2009 (EDT)


 * I don't think there is such a way at the present time, but you might want to look at this discussion. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:40, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

The handle's made of Spanish oak with anti-jinx varnish and in-built vibration controls
Am I the only one who can't help thinking of this whenever some spammer tells us their hotel has "nice staffs" ? (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:04, 11 June 2009 (EDT)
 * Draco/Harry slash fiction? Can't say it ever occurred to me.  (WT-en) LtPowers 12:42, 11 June 2009 (EDT)

Article categorization
84.3.178.191 has seen fit to start creating and filling out categories for us. I advised him or her that it would be best to wait for a consensus before starting such a large project. We'll have to decide what to do with the changes already made. (WT-en) LtPowers 13:03, 18 June 2009 (EDT)
 * ... or, Jani could just speedy delete them... (WT-en) LtPowers 13:08, 18 June 2009 (EDT)

Migrating Wikivoyage to CC by-sa 3.0
Just a heads-up: as of yesterday, June 15, Wikipedia has relicensed (almost) all of their content under CC by-sa 3.0. Details here. (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:36, 16 June 2009 (EDT)


 * → discussion at wts:WtTech:License upgrade - --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 12:05, 16 June 2009 (EDT)

We're getting pretty close to a consensus that, yes, it's time to do this. See wts:License upgrade for a first draft of how this will be done, and wts:Talk:License upgrade for discussion. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:35, 22 June 2009 (EDT)

New Skype Style
What's up with this new skype style listings? I liked the old way. --71.254.108.245 15:51, 25 June 2009 (EDT)


 * "Skype style"...!? (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:32, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
 * What i ment to say is the listings are in a skype type of a style. Some listings i can't even read the phone number. Like example on sleep some of the phone numbers are hidden. --71.254.108.245 12:45, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
 * Can you give us an example? (WT-en) LtPowers 13:03, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
 * I would love to maybe this will clear things up...               +1 877 627-2525       , Thank You --71.254.108.245 13:12, 26 June 2009 (EDT) whats it all about? when was the change over?


 * It has nothing to do with us, it's a Skype plugin for Firefox. It's a cool idea, but doesn't always work so well. I'm sure you can turn it off either in Skype or Firefox – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 14:44, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
 * Oh wow, I don't know how you figured that out, but man was I confused. (WT-en) LtPowers 16:20, 26 June 2009 (EDT)


 * Because I asked the same question a couple years ago when I saw it in an internet cafe in India.... and was met with similar confusion :) – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 14:42, 29 June 2009 (EDT)

Rather large copyvio
There are plenty of sites that reuse our content, and very few of them do it accordingly to the license, but Writing Travellers is a level of fraud unto itself. They're apparently planning to do printed guidebooks, and have unilaterally relicensed all of our stuff as CC-by-sa 3.0. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 18:33, 3 July 2009 (EDT)


 * Well, for those writing competing guides, whose attribution and other rights are being violated... $$$ ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:09, 3 July 2009 (EDT)
 * It looks like it's a user-edited site. Kurashiki definitely has content copied from us, but it's not clear how widespread that is.  Their terms of use say "In the unlucky event of a violation it will immediately remove that content and it will hold the user who put the copyright protected material in the WritingTravellers Project fully responsible for this violation."  I say test their word and drop them a line about the Kurashiki content and see if they remove it.  (WT-en) LtPowers 22:33, 3 July 2009 (EDT)


 * I notice they are using By foot, and not On foot.
 * Much of the work seems attributed to wikivoyage. They are using CC-BY-SA 3.0, but we may well be as well be too in a month or so.  Why would we want them to remove the content?   --(WT-en) inas 00:56, 4 July 2009 (EDT)


 * Where did you see the attribution? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:33, 4 July 2009 (EDT)


 * Who's Wikivoyage? I didn't realize that Wikivoyage wrote or created anything. (Have a look at How to re-use Wikivoyage guides.) I sent them an email. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 10:31, 4 July 2009 (EDT)


 * Group attribution is allowed under CC-by-sa 3.0, which the site seems to think we are using, but not under 1.0. So as to that end, they might not know they are breaking any rules - but I don't see WT being attributed anywhere either. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 12:18, 4 July 2009 (EDT)


 * Ah, I didn't know that about 3.0. (Because we're not 3.0, and won't be for a few months at earliest.) If you click on the name of an individual listing, you're taken to a page which says the text was "partly" taken from Wikivoyage. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 12:27, 4 July 2009 (EDT)

Wikivoyage on Android, with OxygenGuide
If you are lucky enough to have an Android cellphone or netbook, you can have Wikivoyage in your pocket (without images and with minimalistic style). Get it here.

It works but it is a very early version, please reports bugs on the tracker. More Android developers are needed to create a nice application with search, bookmarks, history (or find an existing open source application or framework that allows local web browsing). More Python developers are needed to fix OxygenGuide content bugs. Thanks a lot! (WT-en) Nicolas1981 09:39, 16 July 2009 (EDT)

Listing Eat/Drink/Sleep
Hi, I'm currently working on improving the Tel Aviv Article and It's pretty straightforward on stuff like Do and See, but when I come to the Eat/Sleep/Drink sections I have a problem. Tel Aviv has hundreds of restaurants, cafes, pubs, hotels, motels, etc. I'm not affiliated with any business so I find it really hard to decide which ones to mention, especially since they change almost every day. Would appreciate your help for some guidelines or past experience with problems like that in other big metropolitan cities. (WT-en) Arik Galansky 13:45, 17 July 2009 (EDT)


 * Easy -- pick your own favorites, especially if they've been around for a while and aren't going anywhere. (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:39, 18 July 2009 (EDT)


 * If all else fails, you could speak in general terms, such as "There's a row of small, fly-by-night falafel stands near Main and Broadway that make a good late-night stop." Or speak about the strength of various neighborhoods in certain kinds of cuisine, like Chicago/Hyde Park mentions Thai Row without needing to do full listings for each and every restaurant there. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 11:36, 18 July 2009 (EDT)

Vancouver districts and Vancouver 2010 page
I'm proposing to split Vancouver's City Center district into three. If you have any thoughts or want to comment, please drop by the talk page.

I'd also like to get people's thoughts on the Vancouver 2010 page. Olympics articles are something we haven't done too well in the past and I'd like to change it for 2010. Not sure what to do with it at this point, any thoughts are welcome. (WT-en) Shaund 02:10, 20 July 2009 (EDT)
 * An article on Vancouver during the olympics sounds like a good idea, we dont have to repeat everything thats nicely written in the Vancouver article i.e. how to fly in but focus on such things that are specific to the olympics: i.e. How to get to the bobsleigh-track, and where it is-probably far off from Vancouver in the mountains somewhere. /(WT-en) Johan Jönsson 11:16, 20 July 2009 (EDT)


 * I don't know the city enough to comment on the splitting of districts, but if you want to get support to improve the Vancouver and Vancouver 2010 pages, you may want to make a list of tasks that need done and propose it as a Collaboration of the month. As the next Olympics city, it could be a good nomination. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 17:28, 20 July 2009 (EDT)

Smartphone apps redux
Just a quick announcement - as previously threatened, further up this page, I've gone and written an iPhone app intended to make it easy to update Wikivoyage from your phone. Yesterday I submitted the app to the App Store (where I will charge the outrageous price of $0.00) and released all of its code at http://code.google.com/p/itravelwrite/ under the BSD open-source license.

I'll keep you posted as to if and when the app is approved and available. In the meantime, if any techies out there want to improve the app, or to clean up the crude Android version I have working, let me know. I'd do it myself, but I have a job writing an iPhone app for pay over the next few months, and I fear that that has to take precedence... (WT-en) Rezendi 23:11, 3 August 2009 (EDT)

Template:Disclaimerbox
I've opened up a discussion about this template on its talk page; please review and comment there. (WT-en) LtPowers 10:01, 15 August 2009 (EDT)

I screwed up my OpenID
Ok...I can't read and follow instructions, I logged in with my OpenID and created a new account, this is not what I wanted to do. I currently have an account that I want to link to my OpenID. Who can I contact to get this mess straightened out?

Thanks...you may now return to your regularly scheduled programming...

(WT-en) Redbear 15:51, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

Travel Guide Writing Contest
Hi, wanted to inform you of our new travel guide writing contest. The winning titles will be showcased on the world's largest book fair in Frankfurt, and the grand prize is a trip to the fair to meet with renowned publishers from all over the world (think Lonely Planet, Rough Guides, etc.). There will be over 300,000 visitors and 10,000 journalists on the fair - a big opportunity to jump into a professional travel writing career.

Participation is free and you keep all copyrights on your guides. Please have a look at GuideGecko Travel Writing Contest.

(P.S.: Not sure if this belongs here... If not, please move and let me know. Thanks!) (WT-en) DanielQuadt 02:52, 8 September 2009 (EDT)

Disambiguations - a newbie question
I'm very new to this and already have my first question that someone with more experience should be able to offer an informed opinion about. I was editing a page for Nelson (British Columbia) which was linked from the West Kootenays but noticed when searching for Nelson I ended up at Nelson on the South Island of New Zealand.

Is it worthwhile trying to deal with this? I've read the info on disambiguations and I understand what a possible solution is although I'm a bit uncertain how to DO it, but is this something that merits some action or is this something that could/should be ignored for now?

Thanks - (WT-en) Dave McCormick 2 pm PDST, Sep 9, 2009


 * The template is at Project:Disambiguation pages. You're right that there should be some sort of disambiguation for Nelson.  There are a fair number of Nelsons in the world, and although Nelson, N.Z. is probably the biggest, I don't think it's so well-known that it gets the famous city exemption.
 * I'll move the existing Nelson article to Nelson (New Zealand) and update the links pointing to it. Finding the pages that contain those links is easy with the "What links here" entry on the left sidebar.   - (WT-en) Dguillaime 18:11, 9 September 2009 (EDT)

Thanks - most helpful. something new every day! (WT-en) Dave McCormick 7:14 pm PDST, Sep 9, 2009

Addition to toolbox - upload image in new window
Maybe I am doing things the hard way, but I often need to upload a photo to go into a specific place in an article. This must be a common requirement - and it is useful to have the article and the upload page in shared open at the same time. Could one of the less technically challenged add a link to the toolbox which will open an upload page in a new window, so that the relevant article remains open and the image link can then be cut and pasted into the article with minimum effort and risk of messing it up. At present I open a second window by a relatively complicated procedure. This is something I do often enough to warrant a single click. Cheers, (WT-en) Pbsouthwood 01:28, 28 September 2009 (EDT)
 * What browser and operating system are you using? I can just right-click and select "open in new tab", or click my scroll-wheel (which does the same thing).  That's about as easy as it gets.  (WT-en) LtPowers 13:02, 28 September 2009 (EDT)
 * Internet Explorer 6.0 on Windows XP. There may be a setting I havent set, but the actions you describe don't work for me. (WT-en) Pbsouthwood 02:36, 29 September 2009 (EDT)
 * Upgrade to IE 7 (it's free here: http://www.microsoft.com/Downloads/details.aspx?familyid=9AE91EBE-3385-447C-8A30-081805B2F90B&displaylang=en) and you will be able to do as suggested above.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 05:26, 29 September 2009 (EDT)


 * Basically any new browser that have tabs, when you're doing major work on sites like wikivoyage, they are indispensable once you get the hang of them. So I'd really recommend you to upgrade to a modern browser; options include Internet Explorer 8, Firefox, Safari, Opera and Google chrome, the two latter are especially good for slower computers.  —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Sertmann (talk • contribs).
 * Thanks, I will try that. Cheers, (WT-en) Pbsouthwood 16:08, 1 October 2009 (EDT)

Fundamental issue of target audience
I have just got back from a holiday and I printed out the pages of the cities I was going to (as guides are expensive) and borrowed city guides from the hostels if they had one, a major problem I had was several pages about stuff that did not really interest me accommodation (which I had already booked), tinpot museums etc. Everyone prints out and then reads wikivoyage while wikipedia is read on the spot. Obviously there is no way to code in the possibility of ticking boxes and then print, so that is quite a problem. An additional example of a the problem of target audience, British architecture is unique, in particular the 19th century (Victorian), as it doesn't obey European classical canons (due to genius' creative licence and Continent=inferior) and say a European (disobedience to canons is heresy) or an American (used to Neo-palladianism as the standard architecture for an 18-19th century important building, like the Whitehouse say) who knowns something about architecture may want to know more about it, while someone who is just there for the cheap booze may be confused not knowing why the guide is going about the Greeks and Romans (put notes in parenthesis in case). Wikivoyage at the moment is inferior to a guide book, but if the target audience issue could be resolve one would have personalized guide books. Any ideas? say tagging paragraphs or something? --159.92.17.42 06:35, 7 October 2009 (EDT) (squidonius on wikipedia)


 * Crikey. Some big questions there. And some assumptions that I would not necessarily agree with. Defining a target audience is nigh on impossible I would say. Certainly when I write here I try to be as wide ranging as possible and not preach to any particular audience. If as a user you want personalised sections, why not just copy, paste and print just those that you want?  I don't see the benefit of being any more sophisticated than that. As far as Wikivoyage being inferior to a guide book. Well it is not a guide book... it is seeking to be more than 20,000 different guide books.  Of those 20,000, some of the more developed guides are certainly superior to any relevant printed books I have seen.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 08:10, 7 October 2009 (EDT)


 * Wikivoyage's attempt at addressing this is itineraries for specific interests, eg. Literary London or Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay.


 * Re: being able to print only the parts you want, Wikivoyage Press has a roll-your-own-book project on the back burner, but it's not going to be reality anytime soon. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:45, 7 October 2009 (EDT)


 * I don't believe that everyone prints out Wikivoyage guides without reading them. I have used information from these guides, and I always read it before I use it. How do you know if it contains the information you need if you don't read it? If you choose to print a guide without reading it beforehand, I think the fault lies with you, not the guide. Similarly, if you buy a random guidebook and don't open it until you are already on the trip, you will waste time searching through the guidebook for the information you want (if it is even there at all). All guidebooks have accommodation listings. I don't think Wikivoyage is any more frustrating in regards to having these sorts of parts. For me, the "Eat" section is mostly useless, but I understand that many others find it useful. As Burmesedays pointed out, if there are sections you really don't want, you can always copy and paste OR print it all and highlight the places you want to go. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 14:17, 7 October 2009 (EDT)


 * I think the concept of printing what you want is a good idea if it can be made easily practicable. Cut and paste does not look easily practicable. How do you get the formatting to work? If there is/could be a way to write to a document file which can then have unwanted sections deleted, it may work reasonably well. I would also be interested to know what the roll-your-own-book project is intended to produce. (WT-en) Pbsouthwood 16:11, 9 October 2009 (EDT)

'iTravelWrite' iPhone app
Just a quick note: after some revisions to address community concerns, the new version of my iPhone app "iTravelWrite", which allows people to edit Wikivoyage from their iPhones, is available, up, and running again. Let me know at itw@rezendi.com if you run into any problems with it, or have any concerns.

You can read more about the project at its site site and/or its source code repository (it's open-source.)

I'm also developing an app that will be more generally interesting: an app that will allow you to download Wikivoyage pages onto your iPhone or iPod touch, navigate them with an iTunes-like interface, and show you their listings on a map. It's basically complete - I'm going to submit to the App Store in the next week - so hopefully it will be available as of November. Like iTravelWrite, it will be free. (WT-en) Rezendi 14:01, 10 October 2009 (EDT)

Wikivoyage writing class
Some (Boston, metinks, high) school are using Wikivoyage as part of their writing class, excellent idea if you ask me, and they are blogging about about the process:

Alicia, Andrew, Becca, Brianna, Courtney, John, Keith, Kelly, Lauren, Liam, Matt, Rachel, Thomas, Victoria, Zachary

I like the scientific approach where they have been asked to read though the guidelines, and attempt to follow it - a very good example of modern teaching methods. Oh, and this rant is highly amusing :o) --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 20:11, 12 October 2009 (EDT)


 * I saw a couple of "my major is" remarks in the about me sections, so I think this might be a college class. If it's a writing class, it looks very informal to me. (WT-en) AHeneen 04:41, 14 October 2009 (EDT)

Page caching and breadcrumbs
When someone removes the breadcrumb template from a page, and then the page caching doesn't work properly following a revert, then the breadcrumb trail will not display, and even cause the trail to break on pages below it in the hierarchy. I figured I'd note this here in case anyone else saw the problem and was confused. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:16, 26 October 2009 (EDT)

Star nominations
Some comments, objections, support, praise to our current Star nominations are long overdue, slackers! --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 08:11, 2 November 2009 (EST)


 * Pinnacle has been nominated since 13 October, there is no outstanding objections - lot's of comments, but few people involved - I'd say last call on this one, but it would be nice with involvement of some more people since we are breaking new ground here. Would be nice to get this right from the start. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 20:16, 28 November 2009 (EST)

The Copenhagen lead article has been nominated for star by moi, comments, praise, critique please. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 20:16, 28 November 2009 (EST)


 * Particularly with the Pinnacle nomination, it is a bit disappointing that so few users have commented. Indeed, only the same small handful of users have really commented on any of the current nominations. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 00:09, 29 November 2009 (EST)
 * I agree, and thank those who have commented for their time. Why do you think so few have commented? (WT-en) Peter (Southwood) Talk 01:02, 29 November 2009 (EST)


 * Well there are only a handful who have commented on any of the current nominations. I suspect it is a combination of that general situation and users thinking they cannot comment on a diving article unless they dive. The latter is mistaken I believe as anyone can have a view on the presentation and quality of an article whether they understand the subject matter or not. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 01:11, 29 November 2009 (EST)

Angolan citizenship
Guys does anybody know how to get angolan or actually now that I think of it ethiopian citizenship I am desperate for a new life and when I arrive I plan to get involved in government. I don't care about the downsides don't try to dissuade me I have been studying countires for seven years so I know what you will say. Just tell me can a seventeen year old get any of these and how long does it take are there short cuts I would like to do a tour in the military but please help and I hold american citizenship I hate it here I long to leave and Africa I have comne to love. I wish to join the govermen tI will to anything to prove my ardent patriotism for both countries. Please help god dammit anybody help I want to defect and can't wait any longer I wanted to wait till I am older but my hate for this country is too great help help help my depression cannot be ended until I leave when I go to toher countires I become happy then I come back and I feel like shit I don't care about freedom both angola and ethiopia are reasonably free I don't care just help. I don't care what I have to do even die in battle but I want to live the angolan dream the ethiopian dream and to help my new home become even more powerful and rich then they already are help please this sounds I know wierd but I have exahusted all hope one more time please just help. —The preceding comment was added by 208.105.67.58 (talk • contribs).


 * I wonder if they have the concept of the Angolan Dream? Or patriotism in those terms. This rant sounds to have a very Americocentric slant on it. :-) Funny choice of countries too - what's wrong with the Namibian Dream, eh?! (WT-en) Andyfarrell 17:29, 4 November 2009 (EST)

I just asked for help no there is no concept of the dream there but I feel it personally and I like Namibia but I don't want to live in the second least densly populated nation on earth So can someone still help me and not make fun of what I said —The preceding comment was added by 208.105.67.58 (talk • contribs).


 * This area is for discussion about the running of the wikivoyage wiki. It isn't really a forum to ask travel related questions, or to plan your new life.  Hope the lifestyle comes together. --(WT-en) inas 20:49, 4 November 2009 (EST)

Waiting Period
I just proposed a districtification of an article. What is the typical waiting period for districtification?(WT-en) Rastapopulous 16:32, 4 November 2009 (EST)


 * What article? You should get at least a couple of other Wikivoyagers who agree with the split (and no loud opposition) before you go ahead. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:26, 4 November 2009 (EST)


 * Brooklyn. There had been talk for a while but no one had a big overall proposal, so I drew one up in talk: Brooklyn.(WT-en) Rastapopulous 21:50, 4 November 2009 (EST)


 * Districting can potentially be a slow process, especially if a) no one has yet joined the discussion and b) if no mapmaker is interested. Fortunately, you will have both once I finish my response ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:58, 5 November 2009 (EST)

East Anglia
Please see Talk:East Anglia. Can someone address the misclassifications in East Anglia? Thanks. (WT-en) Shep 11:11, 7 November 2009 (EST)

Linking Google map and Who can rock to edit
Let say I am creating a destination on Wikivoyage, and I would like to show the place on Google map which give tourists a clear sense about where the place is. So as many of you know, if you search a place on Google map, you can see not only the location of place, but also a link which is added to any website. I do not think we need to have permission to use this link. So my question is simple, linking Google map to Wikivoyage (e.g., see more detail direction ".....") is not allowed?

Another question is that one day a guy made page that I am creating rocked. So I could not edit anymore. Who can do this? Does the guy has a kind of authority given from Wikivoyage? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 192.17.146.147 (talk • contribs)


 * No, linking map services is not considered acceptable, amongst other reasons because it's a secondary source and cannot be used in a printed article.


 * Edit warring is considered especially bad form and may result in temporary article protection. - (WT-en) Dguillaime 18:13, 9 November 2009 (EST)


 * If the anonymous user's comments are regarding Monticello (Illinois), please read Talk:Monticello (Illinois) and User talk:(WT-en) Ariel Lickton. The article was locked in an attempt to get the attention of the user making the edits - I put links to the relevant guidelines in the edit comment  and those changes were later undone.  Since the "undo" link is immediately next to the edit comment it seemed unlikely that the comments could have been missed, so temporary protection seemed warranted. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 18:30, 9 November 2009 (EST)

Site maintenance
Site will be down roughly 6AM–10AM GMT on Wednesday. I'd usually add this to MediaWiki:Sitenotice, but I don't want to interfere with the current message. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 07:44, 10 November 2009 (EST)
 * I'd say it's important enough to put up there. We could either put them on separate lines or just replace the upgrade notice for the few hours there are remaining.  (WT-en) LtPowers 10:27, 10 November 2009 (EST)
 * Done. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 10:40, 10 November 2009 (EST)
 * Is it done? I didn't notice any interruption of service! --(WT-en) Rein N. 06:01, 11 November 2009 (EST)
 * Seems that way. Then again, we can't really be sure that our ever reliable site host did anything, or decided to do this later. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 08:41, 11 November 2009 (EST)

Diacritics
Is there any way to write them on Wikivoyage? (WT-en) Rastapopulous 19:12, 10 November 2009 (EST)


 * Type them in using whatever method your operating system has available, or use the HTML codes as an alternative. There's no special tool on WT, it simply accepts whatever text goes into the box.   - (WT-en) Dguillaime 20:06, 10 November 2009 (EST)

Early outage..
Have IB bought forward their outage several hours. The system has been hardly usable today.. --(WT-en) inas 22:05, 11 November 2009 (EST)


 * The outage was supposed to be yesterday but was not noticeable. Today is not good though, I agree. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 22:22, 11 November 2009 (EST)


 * Seems back to normal now, but almost unusable for a few hours there. --(WT-en) inas 00:46, 12 November 2009 (EST)


 * Completely dead for 3 hours for me, just back. I suspect they were a day late with the server maintenance.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 05:35, 12 November 2009 (EST)


 * After the maintenance, my browser often waits server's response for a long time, and then it gives me an error message "server connection was reset". Terribly unstable for me. What's wrong with the servers? -- (WT-en) Tatata7 11:07, 12 November 2009 (EST)


 * I'm still getting frequent slowness. (WT-en) LtPowers 14:32, 12 November 2009 (EST)


 * I had escaped this problem until now&mdash;very slow. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 12:27, 13 November 2009 (EST)


 * I was completely unable to access from about 12 - 4 PM EST today. (WT-en) Rastapopulous 16:00, 13 November 2009 (EST)


 * Hi guys, we are aware of the problem. We're working 24/7 to get it resolved. I will keep you posted on updates (WT-en) Ibsteph 5:20 pm, 13 November 2009


 * Hi Ibsteph, Thank you for the clarification. It would be nice if someone could post a notification that a problem is being worked on rather than leaving us to struggle pointlessly for days. I have wasted several hours over the last 3 days trying to make edits, Multiply that by the number of contributors and it is thousands of lost hours and possibly more importantly, lost goodwill/credibility due to the frustration. Cheers, -- (WT-en) Peter (Southwood) Talk 00:39, 14 November 2009 (EST)


 * Wikivoyage has experienced intermittent website outages caused by a cyber attack. Our troubleshooting team has resolved the issue, and the site should now be functioning normally. We appreciate your patience and understanding, and apologize for the inconvenience caused by this attack.(WT-en) Ibsteph 11:20 am 14 November, 2009 ( EST)


 * I'm still having issues, especially with Special pages like Recent Changes. Oddly I can sometimes get though by switching to my obscure Epiphany browser, but right as i type this my Firefox browser has been trying to load the Travellers pub for 5 minuttes. :o/ --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 14:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)


 * Are there any further details about the "cyber attack"? It's possible that this could simply be someone's script misbehaving - there was a recent user request about setting up a spider to retrieve data (above), I've had a script running for the past two weeks to spider the site, and I'm sure other individuals are probably also trying to retrieve site content.  All scripts should be abiding by Project:Terms of use and thus not cause site issues, but if you could provide any additional details the Wikivoyage community might be able to help identify the source of this "cyber attack". -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 14:52, 14 November 2009 (EST)


 * No, this isn't a script misbehaving, a spider, or anything like that. This was an attack and an investigation is in progress. --(WT-en) IB-Dick


 * You still have problems. I have been unable to access the site via with my normal IP address (Indonesian) for the past 19 hours. However, I am now here using a public proxy called from that IP address. A routing problem still I guess?  Or have you blocked some IP/region addresses after the attack?  Being in Indonesia, I have been blanket blacklisted before in that fashion. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 05:03, 15 November 2009 (EST)


 * No worries, Same here in Denmark, so you are not being discriminated - would be an atrocity to, considering our target audience. It all seems to be a completely unrelated DDoS attack on Internet Brands from a horde of angry vBullitin users over new licensing terms for the popular software IB also owns. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 05:15, 15 November 2009 (EST)


 * Thanks Stefan for the re-assurance and explanation. It's a pain using a proxy due to login handling but just have to continue doing so until things are back to normal. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 05:55, 15 November 2009 (EST)


 * Steph, Dick whoever, this is a total pain. At 16.40 GMT on Nov 15th I can still only access WT via a non-Asian resolving proxy server (same goes or your whole IB stable of sites). That makes session management a nightmare, uploading impossible and editing hard. Do you have routing problems as well after the DOS attack? Signed, me, burmesedays (proxy chucks me out when I try to login).


 * There are still a few locations that can't access the site. We are aware of it and we know why it's happening. We are working on addressing the issue and should have it fully resolved in a matter of hours. Once again, we are sorry for the inconvenience. (WT-en) Dick

Down for the last few hours, and now every second page load is failing. I'll come back tomorrow. --(WT-en) inas 17:04, 15 November 2009 (EST)
 * Intermittent problems today with regular DNS errors. But a huge improvement on yesterday. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 02:50, 16 November 2009 (EST)


 * We are continuing to work on stability, but please keep reporting any ongoing issues here. (WT-en) Ibsteph 9:41, 16 November 2009 (PST)


 * Still problems with access this morning.    --(WT-en) inas 16:53, 16 November 2009 (EST)


 * Had another outage just 2 minutes ago, while saving some work - and now while saving this - keeps redirecting to "http://localhost/install.php" - GAHR! --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 17:13, 16 November 2009 (EST)


 * and again at 12:33 CET...(stefan)


 * same problem as Stefan. DNS failure and redirecting to localhost/install.php. Right now I here using a US proxy as that is the only way I can access the site. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 20:26, 16 November 2009 (EST)

When I try to access the main page, it automatically directs me to the Korean version. Yesterday it loaded the main page from back when Shimla was a DotM. 130.49.162.65 17:02, 16 November 2009 (EST)


 * I think that is an annoying, but unrelated issue. As for the old main page I think that's a catching/proxy issue though, try hitting F5 an extra time. It's a bug we've had for ages. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 17:15, 16 November 2009 (EST)

Hmmmm. After noticeable improvement yesterday, the situation is worse again today for me. It is surprising that 3/4 days after the event, major issues remain and if anything, accessing the site is more difficult than it was 36 hours ago. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 21:45, 16 November 2009 (EST)


 * Getting alternate connection reset, and redirect to localhost. site still effectively unusable.  --(WT-en) inas 22:54, 16 November 2009 (EST)


 * This (if it works) will be the first time I have been able to edit this page since about Thursday. Mostly I cant even read the latest version. -- (WT-en) Peter (Southwood) Talk 00:43, 17 November 2009 (EST)


 * Any update on the situation would be appreciated IB. Stoney silence on this matter on your corporate site I see. I think we have all been patient and understanding (crap happens) but I am now struggling as to why the situation for Wikivoyage.org is still so bad (and at times, getting worse), four/five days after the DoS attack on your server. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:28, 17 November 2009 (EST)


 * Everything seems to be working fine on our end. I have reported this thread to tech and will get back to you shortly.   It would also be helpful if you could post in which part of the world you live as we have seen some issues coming from the Australia / Asia side. Please know that our tech is working hard and 24/7 to resolve  all  ' aftermath effects' of this attack. Your continued patience in the matter is much appreciated.  (WT-en) Ibsteph 10:09 AM, 17 November  ( PST)


 * I've also had huge accesiblity issues from Copenhagen, Denmark, WT have been unaviable for the majority of the day. Curiously i'm getting a wide range of different errors today, which is a change from yesterday. From simple "timouts" and "no response from server" over "SQL - too many connections, wikidb" errors and finaly the frequent "redirects to http://localhost/install.php". To make things even more bizare I can right now access WT with my obscure Ephiphany browser, while Firefox won't load at all - since we have elections here, I've been on a lot of other sites with my Firefox browser without the slightest hickups. I also tried from a IE machine at my local university which couldn't access either. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 13:29, 17 November 2009 (EST)


 * That message btw, took 6 attempts to go through, and interbrands.com which used to suffer from issues too, is working fast and fine today. gahr! --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 13:36, 17 November 2009 (EST)


 * I'm frequently getting redirects to localhost as well, and I'm not even overseas. I'm in upstate New York.  (WT-en) LtPowers 13:55, 17 November 2009 (EST)


 * Thanks guys. Tech is aware and is looking at it right now. (WT-en) Ibsteph 11:18 AM, 17 November, 2009 ( PST)


 * I am having great trouble getting this message uploaded from South Africa. (WT-en) Peter (Southwood) Talk 14:39, 17 November 2009 (EST)


 * Difficulties here in the UK. (WT-en) Andyfarrell 18:25, 17 November 2009 (EST)

Out again this morning. Same issues. Redirect to localhost. After several days of issues following the scheduled outage, is there any more info than, it is being looked at?


 * We understand your frustrations. We DID have a routing problem that has been resolved but we are still seeing latency and the tech team is actively looking at the site trying to mitigate the problem.  I will check in with you again in 24 hours. We are sorry for the inconvenience and appreciate your continued patience while we try to resolve the matter(WT-en) Ibsteph 5:20 pm, 17 November, 2009 ( PST)


 * Still the same issues. If this edit uploads, it will be after 7 attempts to login to the site, all of which timed out. And the issue is clearly not regional (which would be slightly understandable if you have had a routing problem with Asia/Australia as you say). This discussion reports the same (or similar) difficulties from Denmark, UK, Australia, South Africa, Indonesia and New York State.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 20:51, 17 November 2009 (EST)


 * Have had problems both in New York City and right now on Long Island (WT-en) Rastapopulous 20:56, 17 November 2009 (EST)


 * For the most part, performance should be returned to normal. We still haven't found the source of the localhost/install.php problem, but that's because we can no longer replicate the issue. If anyone is still experiencing it, please let us know. Email delivery of system messages is currently being delayed by 4+ hours due to a massive queue that has built up. We expect this to be resolved within the next 12 hours. (WT-en) Dick 19:05 17 November 2009 (PST)


 * Absolutely nowhere near returned to normal as would seem clear from recent posts in this discussion. Whilst trying to reply to your edit, I have had two errors. First, a re-direct to localhost/install.php and then "The webpage wikivoyage.org cannot be found. DNS error occurred. Server cannot be found. The link may be broken." --(WT-en) Burmesedays 22:39, 17 November 2009 (EST)


 * Likewise, I just had two consecutive edits finish 23 minutes apart, since the second was trapped by redirects and then a non-responsive website. The redirect is nothing particularly complicated - just a HTTP 302 response, easily reproducible during those periods.   - (WT-en) Dguillaime 22:50, 17 November 2009 (EST)


 * Failing repeatedly again for me today, from China. I've been getting the localhost redirect of-and-on for days now. (WT-en) Pashley 22:54, 17 November 2009 (EST)


 * I'm still getting it quite a bit today too. (WT-en) Texugo 23:57, 17 November 2009 (EST)


 * I'm still getting errors even now. (WT-en) Rastapopulous 01:05, 18 November 2009 (EST)
 * Had 404 Error this morning and couldn't assess WT. Now it's first time it actually works but do edits is close to impossible from Switzerland. (WT-en) jan 05:48, 18 November 2009 (EST)


 * Situation worse than it was 48 hours ago. Editing is near impossible and even a simple page load, no better than 50:50 chance. Constant time outs and redirects to localhost/install.php. Even when trying via a US proxy server, requests are timing out as the IB server response is too slow. Are other IB sites still as crippled as Wikivoyage? --(WT-en) Burmesedays 06:21, 18 November 2009 (EST)


 * No, I've been testing some of the major ones like, http://www.flyertalk.com, http://carsdirect.com, http://www.world66.com and http://www.vbulletin.org when I got errors on Wikivoyage, and they are all working normally. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 06:33, 18 November 2009 (EST)


 * I figured as much. Even more reason why a proper explanation is in order. I have kind of had enough of platitudes along the lines of "things are back to normal" when they patently are not. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 06:41, 18 November 2009 (EST)


 * In Chiba, Japan, I still have the localhost/install.php problem. I cannot do daily patrol on Japanese version, since page reload and links in left navi rarely work because of the problem. Also it's hard to edit here because of the same error. -- (WT-en) Tatata7 09:32, 18 November 2009 (EST)

No improvement from my side either, still having massive problems today. How about you try and follow up on that mail between myself and Brent and do a much needed upgrade of our Mediawiki platform (latest stable version is up to 1.15.1 now), if we're going to have downtime anyway - might as well have it now, and who knows if you are in the blank on solving this, isn't this as good an attempt on a solution as any? --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 05:57, 18 November 2009 (EST)


 * Wow, I can get to the edit screen! It's been four days since I've been able to get any edits through&mdash;not even to report that I have been experiencing the exact same issues as all the people above, except worse (apparently). I'm not sure how many attempts this edit will require, though... The idea that things have been "back to normal" except for "latency issues" is just insulting to one's intelligence. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 09:57, 18 November 2009 (EST)

We're looking at it right now. What I thought fixed it, didn't fix it. (WT-en) Dick


 * Things seem much better for me right now. I did want to mention something that I noticed when I was having problems.  The problem seemed much more likely to occur if I opened a link in a new tab than if I opened it in the same window.  I don't know if that's worth anything, but there you go.  (WT-en) LtPowers 14:50, 18 November 2009 (EST)
 * We found a routing conflict, but I won't want to sound the all clear without being more confident. Once again, I can't get the localhost/install.php redirect, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. If anyone sees that, please reply so we know we need to continue to troubleshoot. I'll be clicking around trying to get it. (WT-en) Dick


 * Bizzarrely enough, now I can't seem to see the changes to this page w/o editing it or checking the changes--even reloading doesn't do anything. Not sure if that's a related problem or not.  (WT-en) Rastapopulous 15:27, 18 November 2009 (EST)


 * That's a cache server issue which is long-standing (but more apparent than ever in the past week). Easiest way to deal with it is to edit the page and hit the purge cache link at the bottom. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 19:42, 18 November 2009 (EST)


 * I'm able to use the site again (hooray!), and I'm not getting any more error messages. It is slower than before the attack, though. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:40, 18 November 2009 (EST)


 * Same here--Slower, but once again, I can edit with ease!! (WT-en) Rastapopulous 20:45, 18 November 2009 (EST)


 * Huge improvement today. First time since the atack that I have been able to use the site properly for a period of more than 10 minutes. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 23:20, 18 November 2009 (EST)


 * No slower than normal today. Have been able to make edits without interruption. Cheers, -- (WT-en) Peter (Southwood) Talk 03:46, 19 November 2009 (EST)


 * Today, I feel comfortable in editing ja, shared and here. Thank you tech team! -- (WT-en) Tatata7 06:05, 19 November 2009 (EST)


 * Things seem unusually slow today, but I'm not sure if that's on my end or Wikivoyage's. (WT-en) Rastapopulous 12:40, 19 November 2009 (EST)

Price Classifications
Does anyone know what the usual price classifications for Budget/Midrange/Splurge for Europe (both Restaurants and Hotels)? (WT-en) Rastapopulous 16:27, 19 November 2009 (EST)
 * It varies widely from destination to destination, I'm sure. (WT-en) LtPowers 17:57, 19 November 2009 (EST)

Anon vandalism
Special:Contributions/66.61.8.2. Can we get them blocked? (WT-en) Eco84 00:26, 22 November 2009 (EST)

North Korea
Has the North Korea article been protected? For some reason I cannot edit it... indeed there is no edit tab.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 08:49, 22 November 2009 (EST)


 * And now after four reloads, I can. How wierd is that? --(WT-en) Burmesedays 08:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)


 * I had protected it yesterday, but that protection expired five hours before your message here, and I'm pretty sure it shouldn't have prevented you from editing, as you are an autoconfirmed user? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 10:49, 22 November 2009 (EST)


 * It was very odd Peter. The edit tab was missing. I exited WT, cleared my local cache and came back and still the same. Only on the North Korea page. Then after 4 reloads, all was well. I can't even begin to understand that one! --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:55, 22 November 2009 (EST)

Changing of Name
How can I change my login / screen name? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Jasperng (talk • contribs)


 * Generally you can't, it requires a bureaucrat to go down in the boiler room and flick some switches, and he is not available at the moment due to travelling afaik. With just 4 contributions (and two of them here), I would suggest you just open up a new account with the new name. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 12:39, 4 December 2009 (EST)

Text size in edit box
Is there any way to increse text size in the edit box? I upgraded to IE8 and everything shrank down to almost illegible. I can change text size on the rest of the screen in view|text size from IE toolbar, but the edit box text size doesnt change and is giving me major eyestrain. I have the same problem on Wikipedia. Cheers, (WT-en) Peter (Southwood) Talk 15:03, 11 December 2009 (EST)


 * Same issue here. I would strongly suggest using a better browser Peter. Firefox of course but I use Google Chrome a lot for Wikivoyage these days - extremely fast. And it takes literally seconds to download.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 22:20, 11 December 2009 (EST)


 * Maybe try to check your font settings in the control panel. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 17:59, 13 December 2009 (EST)


 * I found a zoom control in the bottom right corner which has sorted the problem. (WT-en) Peter (Southwood) Talk 03:41, 17 December 2009 (EST)