User talk:Luchy04

Hello Luchy04! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page.

If you are a Wikipedian then you may notice some differences in policies and the style of our articles. These include:
 * NPOV &rarr; be fair (not quite the same thing!)
 * be bold &rarr; plunge forward
 * Village pump &rarr; travellers' pub
 * External links &rarr; We do not use a separate external links section, but incorporate primary links only into the text itself.
 * sandbox &rarr; graffiti wall
 * stub tagging &rarr; Article status

It may also be very useful for you to check out Welcome, Wikipedians. If you need help, take a look at Help, or else post a message in the travellers' pub or on my talk page. Thanks for contributing!

Thanks for your work on articles about Italy.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:10, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Please note the following...
Wikivoyage is not an encyclopedia of places. We are a travel guide. So could you please stop writing articles like it's an essay or an encyclopedia. I've even nominated some for deletion. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 13:09, 10 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Let's look at these edits as an example. First there's this:


 * ''The province of Piacenza is an Italian province of Emilia-Romagna with 284 075 inhabitants. It borders to the north with Lombardy (province of Lodi, province of Cremona and province of Pavia), to the west again with Lombardy (province of Pavia) and Piedmont (province of Alessandria), to the east with the province of Parma and to the south with Liguria (metropolitan city of Genoa). The province of Piacenza extends into the Po Valley south of the Po River, in the western part of the Emilia-Romagna region. Except for a short stretch near the mouth of the Nure stream where it forms the border with the Lodi municipality of Caselle Landi, the northern border with the provinces of Pavia, Lodi and Cremona is represented by the river Po. The eastern border with the province di Parma follows, from the south, the watershed with the Ceno valley, then the Stirone stream, the Ongina stream and, finally, the Arda stream from its confluence with the Ongina to its mouth in the Po. To the south, the border with the metropolitan city of Genoa is represented for a short distance by the watershed between Val Nure and Val d'Aveto, then by the Aveto torrent and the Terenzone torrent. The border with the province of Alessandria is represented by the watershed between val Borbera and val Boreca, while the border with the province of Pavia is represented by the watershed between val Boreca and val Staffora, for a short distance from the same Staffora stream near Samboneto, then from the Trebbia river, from the watershed between the Avagnone valley and other lateral tributary valleys of the Trebbia, between the Trebbia and Staffora valleys, between the Trebbia and Tidone valleys, between the Tidoncello and Tidone valleys and between the Tidone and Versa valleys, with the except for the Moncasacco area where the Versa stream itself marks the border for a very short stretch, and finally from the Bardonezza stream. The various sections are separated from each other by conventional border sections. The southern part of the province is mountainous and hilly and here are the main Piacenza valleys which from west to east are: val Tidone (formed by the homonymous stream), val Trebbia (Trebbia), val Nure (Nure) and val d'Arda (Arda). Other minor valleys are the Aveto valley, crossed by the main tributary of the Trebbia, the Chiavenna valley, the Chero valley, the Riglio valley, the Luretta valley, the val d'Ongina, the Val Chiaron, the Val Perino and the Val Boreca. The northern part of the province is included in the Po Valley, whose north-eastern area is called the lower Piacenza area.''


 * I am going to delete that whole swathe of virtual black ink, as it reads as irrelevant and user-unfriendly trivia on a travel site.


 * ''There is no great confectionery tradition, however there is no shortage of desserts: turtlìt (sweet tortelli), pies, standing milk, buslàn (donut) and buslanëin (donuts), and spongata very common in Monticelli d'Ongina and in Val d'Arda. Very common on the tables of Piacenza, as well as in other areas of Lombardy and Emilia, is the sbrisolona cake originating, however, from Mantua. Piacenza gastronomy boasts various typical dishes that over time have become known even outside the province itself, such as pisarei and faśö and tortelli alla Piacentina. An important role in Piacenza gastronomy is held by cured meats, of which the three most famous, marked with the DOP mark, are Piacenza salami, Piacenza coppa and Piacenza pancetta. Thanks to their presence, Piacenza is the only Italian province to include three DOP cured meats. Other cured meats that do not have the PDO indication are mariola, a kind of salami typical especially of the Nure valley and which enjoys the recognition of Slow Food presidium, salami gentile and lard which, crushed together with parsley (pistä 'd gras), it is also used as an ingredient in various dishes. The cured meats are the main Piacenza appetizer; other popular dishes are cooked salami, greaves (called graséi in Piacenza), bortellina (burtlëina in Piacentino) from Val Nure, Val Trebbia and Val Tidone, a sort of flour pancake, accompanied with cold cuts or cheeses, chisulén or cake fried, typical only of some municipalities of the lower Val d'Arda, but very common in other provinces of Emilia-Romagna, sometimes with the name of fried dumpling, always in combination with cured meats, the batarö, a focaccina originating from the Tidone valley, the fried polenta and the potato cake typical of the upper Nure valley. The best-known sauces are the walnut sauce (ajà) and the Ligurian pesto on the Apennines, an area that has always been influenced by the influence of Genoa and Liguria, the parsley sauce and the Farnese-style liver sauce. Among the first courses there are the aforementioned pisarei and fasö, bread and flour dumplings with bean sauce dressing, and tortelli alla piacentina, anolini (anvëin), fresh pasta filled with stewed meat served in broth, anolini the use of the Val d'Arda, a variant of those just mentioned in which the stew is replaced by cheese, pumpkin tortelli, different from those of Mantua and Cremona due to the absence of amaretti, chestnut tortelli, typical of mountain, the malfatti and the macaroni made with the sock needle (macaron cun agùcia) by Bobbio, the half sleeves of the friars, a sort of large stuffed macaroni, tagliatelle or trofie with walnut sauce typical of the mountains and Liguria, risotto alla Primogenita, risotto with mushrooms, rice and cabbage (with pork ribs), risotto with livers, risotto with pork tails and panzerotti alla piacentina (cylinders of fresh baked pasta stuffed with ricotta, chard and grana pada no), a recently introduced dish. Very common among the second courses are the roast duck and guinea fowl, the pìcula 'd cavall (small horse), the donkey stew, the Piacentina stew, the Bobbio rice bomb, the snails alla bobbiese, the key o pocket (stuffed calf tip) variant of the Genoese peak that is at home on the Apennines, the delicate stewed eel, the marinated eel known as puppet or büratëin, the stuffed courgettes of the Apennines that show clear Ligurian traces and, among the poorer second courses, stewed cod and polenta, available in different variants including consa, that is, with layers of sauce and parmesan cheese, or with cracklings, or as an accompaniment to pìcula 'd caval. The D.O.P. cheeses they are Grana Padano and Provolone Val Padana; in the mountain areas, cheeses are still produced with sheep, goat and cow milk, including the cheese from which the saltaréi worms come out, whose marketing has been banned following European directives, but which continues to be produced on a family level . There is no great confectionery tradition, however there is no lack of desserts: turtlìt (sweet tortelli), pies, standing milk, buslàn (donut) and buslanëin (donuts) and the spongata very common in Monticelli d'Ongina and in val d'Arda, a cake probably of early medieval origin spread by Benedictine monasteries in the lower Piacenza area as well as in the province of Parma, Reggiano and other areas; there is evidence of this in the diplomatic code of the monastery of San Colombano di Bobbio in which the Benedictine monks used to give a spongata at Christmas to those who had regularly brought them the share of the rent: giving illi qui fictum portaverit unam spongatam (giving to those who rent a spongata). Very common on the tables of Piacenza, as well as in other areas of Lombardy and Emilia, is the sbrisolona cake originally from Mantua. As can be seen from this long list of recipes from the province, the city of Bobbio can boast a good number of local recipes, so much so that its cuisine is considered, in some cases, as a stand-alone, separately from the cuisine of the rest of the province.''


 * Super-long black text! But unless this is copied and pasted, I would prefer for some changes to be made than for this to be summarily deleted. The issue here is that the information is presented in a user-unfriendly way. Would you please divide it into bullets, with each foodstuff getting one bulletted entry, and bold each food name the first time it's used? You can bold text on this site by using the single quote key 3 times before and after the text you want to bold.


 * Finally, Luchy04, it is really indispensable that you reply on this page, showing that you are reading these messages, and engage with us in dialogue. I have tended not to believe you are the Telstraman sock, but if you ignore the messages on this page, you might as well be, and we'll have to seriously consider undoing all your work on this site. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:47, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Okay and thanks for all the valuable tips you have given me Ikan Kekek Luchy04 18:28, 10 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Absolutely, happy to help. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:45, 10 June 2021 (UTC)


 * And a bit of further clarification: By bulleted items, I don't mean just a long list; some descriptions or comments in each bullet are welcome! Remarks about how an item is special, worthwhile or interesting are great for a travel guide. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:47, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

No more than 9 cities in "Cities" sections of non-bottom-level region articles
Hi, User:Luchy04. Please read 7+2, and also have a look at the 1-liner listings page. You might want to read Breadcrumb navigation, too, to understand why we have a hierarchy and don't go on and on about umpteen cities in articles for the entire Northwest of Italy.

Please let me know if you have any questions after you've read these links.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:51, 11 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Hello Ikan Kekek, but you could explore the north west of Italy with articles created by me, for example deepen the provinces and add other cities that unfortunately are not there. Let me know if you agree. Thank you


 * Luchy04 08:35, 12 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Different guides have different house styles. When I was in Italy in the early 90s, I used Touring Club Italiano's guides to Tuscany and Florence and Environs. They identified the architect of every building on every street and every artwork of every kind in every church, but they had no entries for hotels and so on. Eyewitness guides, by contrast, have loads and loads of photos. This guide's style is different from both and also very different from the style you've been using. I would suggest for you to read Style and the pages linked to it. If you'd like to change the style of this guide, pick an appropriate talk page to start a thread, make your best argument, and good luck, but in the meantime, please conform as closely as you can to Wikivoyage's existing style. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:52, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Your Pavia edit
With this edit you added text that needs some rephrasing. Example: within a few lines of text it is mentioned 3 times that Milan-Pavia takes 30 minutes. --FredTC (talk) 08:08, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

No plagiarism
This quotes and very slightly paraphrases way too much from this. You can consult other sources, but you need to (a) credit your source in an edit summary and (b) summarize and do good paraphrases, not quote swaths of text, changing a word here or there. Don't make us search for your sources; respect copyright. I will revert your edit now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:00, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Edits by Luchy04
For those of you who did the surgery on the big block of text there, you'd know about their copyvios. But it seems that despite numerous warnings given to them, yet they still continue to add copyvios. I blocked them for a week following what did to them on the French Wikivoyage, but I am reluctant to trust any one of their edits as being copyvio free. If possible, could and  comment about their edits on it and nl voy (I know about their edits on fr.voy, but nowhere else)?

If you look at their edits, the first thing you'll notice is that at least 80% of his mainspace edits have more than 500 bytes added into it. Not just here, but on all the Wikivoyage's they've been contributing. The only wiki where I've noticed that no edits of theirs has been reverted is fi.voy as you can see at fi:Toiminnot:Muokkaukset/Luchy04 (I suppose could tell whether they're copyvio or not since they're the only admin here who speaks Suomi).

So, the main question is, if Luchy04 still hasn't learned their lesson, are we just going to leave it or revert all of it, as something tells me that all of their edits are copyvios. This guy risks getting the WMF in a lawsuit.

Cheers,

SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:23, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Has this user ever communicated with others? How many language additions does s/he edit? All the language editions, he would be unlikely to know all those languages, but to copyvio comprehension is not as important. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 11:29, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * From what I know, they edit: en, fr, nl, it, fi, de, es and pt. Only western European languages. No one is monitoring them on fi, and have no idea about es. Oh, and they only communicate to make us happy, but I and don't feel like it's a genuine response. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:32, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Looking at L's Global user contributions, I see even edits to the Italian Wikipedia, starting June 2019. Some are edits of adding over 100,000 byes of text, but reverted soon after. On the Dutch Wikivoyage L adds lots and lots of text, that can be reduced 80-90% without missing essential information. The added info is also incorrect at some places; so, it was not obtained from personal experience by L. It takes a lot of work to do the reduction to a more usual Wikivoyage style. I get the impression that L is copying text from another language and does an automatic translation, avoiding copyvio detection. I'm thinking about askig an admin to block L. --FredTC (talk) 13:12, 22 July 2021 (UTC)


 * I get the same impression as Fred with regard to translation software. The user's edits are just too detailed, too frequent and too numerous for them all to have been original work. Since we know he has committed copyvio on several Wikivoyages, has received numerous warnings across those, and has been subjected to two one-week blocks (on fr and now en), I'd be in favour of adopting a "one strike and you're out" approach upon his return to en: he'll be warned on his talk page that any additional copyvio will result in a local indefblock. Any takers? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:24, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Support --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 13:34, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * In Finnish he did similar detailed additions, with no try at incorporating existing text. There are some flaws that hint at machine translation, but either the translation was edited afterwards (unlikely in this case, it seems) or I have to be impressed – I thought machine translation to Finnish was much worse. I suppose I should give them a note. –LPfi (talk) 15:26, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I hear that https://www.deepl.com/translate is better for European languages in general, but I've never heard anything specific to Finnish. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:36, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Finnish is hard, as you don't get anywhere by translating words (in anything you wouldn't get across with Tarzan speech à la "me man, you woman"). You often need to really understand the relations between the elements of a sentence to get even a sensible result, as Finnish expresses things differently from Indo-European languages. To get something that resembles native text is even more difficult. –LPfi (talk) 18:58, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Luckily, for the machine translation, Finnish is well-studied and there is money available for the research needed (not like for English or French, but still). Thus native solutions can be created, like the Finnish proofreading that now exists on Linux despite it requiring advanced morphological analysis. I suppose there are similar problems for many language groups that don't have the resources. –LPfi (talk) 19:04, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * that explains Vkem's weird translations. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:20, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
 * @tt! I agree. To, you should probably consider blocks on them on it.voy. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:27, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Luchy has greatly reduced the edits on it:voy. Probably because very few of his changes were (totaly) kept. The main problem is the lack of collaboration in the discussion namespace, which imho makes him not compatible with the project. If he comes back to edit on it:voy I would agree to a block.--3Pappa3 (talk) 07:08, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

I just reverted some of their edits likely to be a copyvio. Missed any? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:03, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

so, since Luchy04's block is coming to an end, are we agreeing to a one strike then you are out? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:17, 27 July 2021 (UTC) I didn't comment earlier, but I support this. Ground Zero (talk) 22:46, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Support. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 22:24, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Support. --FredTC (talk) 07:26, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Support as proposer.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:12, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Support --3Pappa3 (talk) 11:03, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
 * With their block ending in 7 hours as of this message, hopefully, we never have to indef ban them SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:24, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Block
I have blocked you for editing for one week. We need to get these issues sorted out.

You have repeatedly copied and pasted information of non-WMF hosted sites and you yourself know that that is not allowed. User:Omondi also blocked you on the French Wikivoyage for one week but you still haven't learnt your lesson even after the block expired, and User:Andyrom75 has given you warnings on the Italian Wikivoyage, while User:FredTC on nl.voy.

I never wanted to do this, but your copyvios risk the WMF getting a lawsuit. I hope you take our and User:Omondi's warnings, and please don't copy from other sources next time.

All the best,

--SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:10, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * FYI. One more copyvio and an indef ban. It seems to be what everyone is thinking on the pub. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:25, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

No more copyvios
Since your block is coming to an end in 3 days time, I would like to point it out to you, that it has been agreed on the pub to adapt a one strike and you're out. This means that one more copyvio, and you'll be indef banned. You've received far too many chances on numerous language Wikivoyages and have been given two blocks so far. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:43, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, I and have reverted some of your edits that look suspicious to us. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:45, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Future edits
With your block coming to an end in a few hours, and you can start editing back again, there's one thing you can do to eventually gain community trust again. And that is, to never copy text from another source again on any WMF project. While I understand that we may have been harsh on you, but remember, copyright violations is basically stealing from someone else. And they may take action against the WMF or even you.

I hope you take this block as a learning opportunity, and to not commit a copyvio again.

--SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:32, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

March 2022
Hello Luchy04, please see User_ban_nominations. Regards, -- SHB2000 (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta.wikimedia) 07:55, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

You have been indefinitely blocked
 You have been blocked indefinitely from editing Wikivoyage as per this discussion on User ban nominations. If you are not that IP, please comment below and you will be unblocked.. If you feel that this block is unjustified, feel free to appeal the block by appealing below.

However, you will usually still be able to edit your user talk page while blocked.

Please note: -- SHB2000 (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta.wikimedia) 10:01, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 * In some cases, you may not be in fact blocked, your block has already expired, or you are being autoblocked. If blocked, you may want to consider appealing the block by using the unblock tag. If you clicked on a red link, and are seeing an error message, you have been blocked from editing pages.

User:87.4.152.92
I welcome them to Wikivoyage if they're a new user, but I note that because they are adding articles about places in the Lake Como area, some of which were previously deleted, and using non-en.wikipedia formats, their work bears watching, to see if they will engage in useful dialogue with us but also because their output so far is reminiscent of User:Luchy04. I'm posting this here, rather than at Wikivoyage talk:How to handle unwanted edits, so as to be careful not to prejudge whether this new IP user may be acting in good faith and producing more helpful than problematic edits. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:53, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I saw this last night but was too tired to do anything, but I suspect that their recent articles are probably unaccredited copyvios from it.voy at best. SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 20:06, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * sorry to have my hands full as of this monent, unable to help this cleanup, but I can testify that these destinations - Lierna, Lake Como and its villages etc etc - regularly receive this type of massive spamming edits. It's always like this, too copyvio-smelling to try and save any useful bits. Ibaman (talk) 02:25, 26 November 2022 (UTC)


 * This IP is now blocked for 3 days except on their talk page for putting out-of-town listings in, as Luchy04 routinely did, more than for any other reason. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:18, 26 November 2022 (UTC)


 * There are now similar edits by the IP 151.36.189.31. Ypsilon (talk) 17:45, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Wikimania was in that area a few years ago, because of the unusual structure (like renting a room from a local resident, rather than everyone staying in a big hotel), I wouldn't be surprised if the folks in that area know more about the wikis than average. I wonder if someone is trying to promote the area this way (or to start a little PR business, even?).
 * If it's the same handful of places being listed, we could put the URLs on the spam blacklist. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:40, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * There were a lot of rifugios and beaches listed, without URLs. The out-of-town listings seemed more like carelessness than touting. Go figure. –LPfi (talk) 21:07, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I blocked User:151.36.189.31 and User:87.4.152.92 for 1 month for block evasion. User:151.36.189.31 posted the exact same text in 5 articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:33, 26 November 2022 (UTC)