User talk:Ismail Khatai

Hello, Ismail Khatai! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. If you are familiar with Wikipedia, take a look over some of the differences here.

Shemakha
Is Shemakha a different place or an alternative spelling for Shamakhi? --Traveler100 (talk) 16:18, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, this is the same place. Shemakha - is more classic international way of spelling (orginal from Russian pronounce). Shamakhi is the formal Azeri internal spelling.
 * OK I have made a redirect of the page. Would be great if you know the area if you could expand the article with more things to see and places to eat and sleep. --Traveler100 (talk) 08:03, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Thats what i am trying to do ;). Creating Naftalan page

Rayon pages
Hi, Ismail, and thanks as always for all the content you're adding!

I'd suggest, however, that you not add more rayon articles without gaining a consensus at Talk:Azerbaijan. I fear they will lack sufficient content to be useful on this site, at least for now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:51, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Southern Route and Western Route
Hi, any chance of expanding these articles? --Traveler100 (talk) 03:06, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Vfd thread
Ismail, I want to inform you that these articles, which you started have been nominated for deletion. Please stop by at vfd and tell us about your plans to expand these articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Ikan Kekek, thanks for info. I planned to developed them but been busy as bee ... think that first information will be implemented within 3 days —The preceding comment was added by Ismail Khatai (talk • contribs)

User:Ikan Kekek I have looked through the VFD articles, and maybe it is better to delete them, beacause these articles will not have much content and can be usefull only for roadtrips by car. talk (talk) 13:55, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Warningboxes
You are not quoting the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs as warning specifically about every state of the U.S. It's quite legitimate for you to post a warningbox in the United States article, accurately quoting from the advisory, except that the tone doesn't sound like it actually requires a warningbox, rather than a cautionbox in "Stay Safe", because at this point, they are not saying no Turks should visit the U.S. at all, or none except for "necessary travel", so the analogy with travel advisories to Chechnya seems to fall down. If they are cautioning people about particular cities, it makes sense to post some kind of cautionbox or warningbox in the articles for those cities, but I think you are intentionally making a mockery of things by posting warningboxes in articles for entire U.S. states for no good reason.

Via Google Translate:

"The protest, which began in the US after the presidential elections held on November 8, 2016, continues in different cities across the country, especially in New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Miami, Los Angeles, Seattle, Oakland and Portland.

There are occasional crime and violence incidents in demonstrations, demonstrators and security forces facing each other. In this context, it reflects the public opinion that many demonstrators are taken into custody by the security forces.

In particular, the Oregon state has seen intense violence and crime in the Portland city protests. The demonstrations in this city were described as a riot in the security forces, and lastly it was announced that a person was injured early on Saturday (November 12th) as a result of armed attack during protest march. It is understood that protesters are likely to continue for a while from the demonstrators' sharing in social media.

On the other hand, it has been reflected in the public opinion that in recent days there has been an increase in verbal and physical attacks and harassment incidents which are anti-foreign and racist in the USA.

In the context of the risks of living events and social tension, our citizens who are living or planning to travel to the United States are wary of the fact that they are not approaching the regions where the demonstrations are concentrated, increasing security measures in the areas they live and work in, They also benefit from close monitoring of local media and broadcasters and follow-up of additional warnings and announcements by the US security forces and our Ministry, our Embassy in Washington and our Consulate General in the USA."

That is a completely valid and reasonable security advisory. I think it should be posted in full in the USA article. But please don't be silly and post it where it doesn't specifically belong. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:37, 14 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Ikan, I think that each state and city related pages should contain this warnings, because user can request specific search, so the case is that to bring info for such searches. I think you will agree that if you visit page on Moscow, it doesn't mean you going to visit page of Russia Ismail Khatai (talk  ) 15:44, 14 November 2016 (UTC+3)]


 * Please have a look at the United States of America page for my representation of the warning. Does it strike you as accurate? But as for your example of Moscow, the analogy would be to an American city like Washington, D.C. or New York, not to the entire state of Illinois. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:46, 14 November 2016 (UTC)


 * I will tell you, by the way, that many of us Americans are quite concerned about our safety, following the election of Donald Trump. I am concerned myself, though not so much for the short term, but my African-American friends are acutely concerned. And there have been many instances of children beating up other children, specifically inspired by Trump's racist rhetoric. So I take no offense whatsoever at the Turkish government's warning. But I think it belongs in the USA guide and the guides to the specific cities mentioned, not to every possible article about every place in the US. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:51, 14 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Seems Ok. Check India


 * Might need a bit of copy editing, but looks reasonable. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:02, 14 November 2016 (UTC)


 * And now check United Kingdom

Please stop adding warning boxes until you reach some sort of consensus about them. You're trying to make a point out of frustration with our warning box on top of the Chechnya article, but this is no way to solve that discussion. Also understand that we treat different kinds of advise with different "warnings" in our articles. For countries or areas where major governments issue explicit "don't go"-warnings, we use the red warning boxes. For countries or regions where there is no explicit "don't do"-advise, but there are suggestions on how to behave or what to avoid, we use text in the Stay Safe section and/or Template:Cautionbox. It's perfectly acceptable to mention non-Western government warnings, but that doesn't mean it's okay to slap big red warning boxes on all kinds of major articles when they're not warranted, especially when you do so out of frustration. JuliasTravels (talk) 15:06, 14 November 2016 (UTC)


 * JuliasTravelsSorry, but seems you have been frustrated about warning boxes. My point was to clarify how to use red boxes, and when other active users explained it to me, we have decided that it will be fair to inform users of the Wikivoyage about major threats in the world. As we can see from Turkish Foreign Affairs Ministry, that there are threats for the ANY foreigners in the areas of ongoing riots in the U.S. We will keep this information, no mater you do so out of frustrations on this or not. Ikan Kekek, can you please monitor and treat fairly all our conversation.   Ismail Khatai (talk) 18:38, 14 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Please simply get involved in the conversation, rather than start edit warring. Several users (not just me) have undone your additions of warning boxes. Not out of frustration, but because this use is not in line with our policy. It's perfectly fair to mention any travel advice or treats in articles about the US or other western countries, but you'll have to do it the way we always do: with a mention in the Stay Safe section. The red warning boxes on top of articles are meant for war zones and countries where several governments advise agains all travel. Have a look, for example, at our Turkey article. Most western governments advise against travel in certain areas of Turkey, and most will advise extra caution and avoiding protests etc., but that doesn't mean the article gets a red warning box. It does mean, however, that such issues are discussed in the appropriate section. Keep in mind that continuing to post warning boxes now, before gaining any kind of consensus, might be considered edit warring and could lead to an editing block. No-one wants that; let's just have an open discussion and see where we end up. Also look at Talk:USA. JuliasTravels (talk) 15:48, 14 November 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm going to be blunt here. I'm not American, but someone very close to me is currently in the San Francisco Bay area with her US-born partner. If you read between the lines, yes she is (a) gay (b) female and (c) an immigrant. Three strikes. Needless to say, she and her American wife are very concerned about what's happening as some of this can have real-world consequences (like no health care, more open discrimination, more attacks on freedom of expression, more attacks on women's rights - Roe vs. Wade as one example). I've been trying to convince them to come here and not look back, but it's not that simple. They're going to stand their ground and I respect that. I just don't see what a warning from the Turkish government is going to do to help them, given that country's own human rights record, which has deteriorated markedly after the recent coup attempt. Yes, we know that there's a problem, but a mess of warningboxes like the ones we put on war zones is doing nothing to help the voyager. K7L (talk) 16:01, 14 November 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree that this should be a cautionbox in the "Stay Safe" sections of the United States article and the articles for the cities specifically mentioned in the Turkish travel advisory only, but I disagree that it's not relevant or useful. There are perhaps a billion or so Muslims in the world, and their security can easily be predicted to have worsened and continue to worsen as the inauguration of President-Elect Trump approaches. Just as the poor human rights record of the U.S. during the GW Bush Administration didn't make State Department travel advisories ipso facto inaccurate, neither does Turkey's current poor human rights record make anything in that travel advisory the least bit unreasonable. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:22, 14 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Dear all, can we proceed further discussion on Chechnya page ?


 * [Edit conflict] But Ismail, you've got to stop edit warring. JuliasTravels already warned you about this, and it is likely to lead to a block very soon if it continues. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:26, 14 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Also: No, the warningbox on the Chechnya page should be considered valid, period. What is there to discuss about it? It's not similar to Russian travel warnings about people dressed like clowns in London or something. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:28, 14 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Whatever....Keep in mind, that India has largest english speaking community int he world....I will develop Chechnya article and maybe after you will read this, you will delete red box by yourself. Don't get me wrong, i am not from Chechnya or even Chechen, I just want people get exact and independent info, but you guys, with your desire to hide warning box from US articles from the english speaking community all of the world, not actually do good thing for real travelers. I hope that things will normalize in US very soon, and we even will not have large stay safety block. (talk)


 * I don't want to hide anything about the US, as you know, and there could be a time when a warningbox is justified. What does the government of India advise in terms of travel to Chechnya or the US? Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:04, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Ikan, I want you to read from what we have started our discussion. The main point was that if there are any advises, It shouldn't be hiden from users ( as you advised and bless for red box, even my wording was soft - "...take additional measures to be safe" - you corrected it by yourself). All I want to say is that official source mostly are trash talks, I mean we can bring the situation to absurdity if all official gov soruces will be searched :) And we now returned from what we have started: I don't care about official sources of US, Canada and especially New Zeand saying about Chechnya or other countries, they are not ex cathedra at all, I recognize that Warning box applicable for war zones and unrest areas, and Chechnya is deffenatelly not sort of it...(talk) Ismail Khatai