User talk:Clevercamel

Hello Clevercamel! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page.

If you are a Wikipedian then you may notice some differences in policies and the style of our articles. These include:
 * NPOV &rarr; be fair (not quite the same thing!)
 * be bold &rarr; plunge forward
 * Village pump &rarr; travellers' pub
 * External links &rarr; We do not use a separate external links section, but incorporate primary links only into the text itself.
 * sandbox &rarr; graffiti wall
 * stub tagging &rarr; Article status

It may also be very useful for you to check out Welcome, Wikipedians. If you need help, take a look at Help, or else post a message in the travellers' pub or on my talk page. Thanks for contributing!

Thanks very much for improving this site's coverage and working within the sometimes idiosyncratic site guidelines and style. A couple of specific things that I'm noticing are relevant for you are Naming conventions (we avoid unnecessary disambiguations, such as country or region names as a part of city article names when there is no other destination article by the same name, while Wikipedia routinely uses them) and two things having to do with Listings templates: (1) We don't use default address info (the name of the city, when it's the same as the article title; postal code; district and/or province; country name and such), except in countries (like the UK) where postal codes really help readers find the physical location of a listed place; (2) we don't delete blank fields in these templates (which should be restored when they are deleted).

Thanks again, and all the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:39, 13 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks. 1) In regards to the address, would you give me an example of the best way to list an address in Spain? 2) In regards to deletion of template field, that was a complete accident and I thought I restored it to original!  I had inserted the template into a new town and didn't realize I was on the wrong tab editing! Clevercamel (talk) 17:53, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Logroño and Blanes are two guide-level articles about Spanish cities, so you could look at how addresses are shown in their listings. No problem on the accidental listing field deletions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:31, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Texas trail
Please read the mentioned policies. Don't add Eat or Sleep listings in the itinerary. They go only in ther respectivie cities' articles. Thanks for understanding, Ibaman (talk) 13:33, 25 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The reason I was doing this is this is a thru hike itinerary. When doing a thru hike it is a challenge to find places to eat and sleep, so having all of the city waypoints with places to sleep and eat that are close to the trail are very helpful.  The entire reason I came here to create an itinerary.  Please advise.  Clevercamel (talk) 13:55, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * and to be able to download them all in one GPX file to use offline on the hike Clevercamel (talk) 13:56, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I see and understand. Go ahead, list them here, for the moment. The community will discuss and find a solution. Ibaman (talk) 14:52, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you.  I am happy to participate in the conversation and look for the best solution, as someone with little experience with WikiVoyage, but experience and interest in open data projects and thru hikes.  Here are some of my thoughts on the matter:
 * I think Wikivoyage is the perfect place for Thru HIke itineraries as the alternatives, that I am aware of, are proprietary and controlled by one group or individual that lends itself to become outdated and biased towards one viewpoint. I think thru hikers would use Wikivoyage as a resource for these itineraries as they are potentially comprehensive, while being succinct with the ability to download them if all contained in one page, but also be available through apps like OSMAnd, that is used a lot by the hiking community.  The ability to have bulleted lists of the steps of the hike with the villages/cities, places to sleep, eat, and resupply would be invaluable.  Sometimes this is difficult to come by in a succinct format but very possible here.
 * I understand why the policy is in place to list lodging and food within a separate place listing for most travel destinations. The reason I think it would benefit to have a different policy for thru hikes is twofold: 1) many villages on thru hikes are very very small and not worthy of separate pages as no one is going to visit them for tourism otherwise.  They may only have 200 residents and one fueling station; a useful thing for a thru hiker but not other types of tourists, necessarily; and 2) larger cities may have 100s of restaurants and lodging making it difficult to determine good options for a thru hiker but may'be only a few are near the trail.   Listing the places that are near the trail and frequented by hikers is very helpful.   Looking at a city page that has a lot of options is the opposite when planning a hike.
 * If the community thinks that maintaining separate pages for these villages is the way to go, may'be a solution would be to list the lodging/restaurants on the village page but have a way to mirror individual ones onto the thru hike itinerary page? I.e. contributors could somehow pick 5 out of the 1000 restaurants and 5 out of the 1000 hostels and hotels in Logrono Spain that are relevant to the path of the Camino de Santiago French Way. Clevercamel (talk) 18:45, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * How would you feel about having very brief summaries (for example, names) that are linked to the "Eat" sections in the articles for the nearest town or rural area article where there are full listings? Because the problem with putting full listings in an itinerary article is that people not looking for the itinerary specifically won't find them. Repetition of listings violates the Don't tout listings, and I don't think we want that degree of redundancy in our articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:50, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I think that would be fine if the location data was still present in the GPX file that you could download.  I'm happy to create pages for these small villages and include the bulk of the information there if there would be a way to just link the name and coordinates or whatever so they are in the GPX so someone could download and also just click on it to open on a map.
 * One potential issue I could see is what if another contributor deletes the item thinking it isn't very relevant on the village page?  I.e. one village on this particular itinerary only has a few hundred residents and the only commercial entity in town is a gas station/convenience store.  Not useful to the standard tourist looking at a town to vacation in, but super important to a thru hiker who is looking at the whole itinerary and needs to know how many miles until I can resupply with water, use a toilet, buy food, etc.   Clevercamel (talk) 18:59, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * On a separate but related note....I would like to list distance to the next village in the itinerary, and want to make sure it doesn't violate a policy.  The reason is a hiker is looking at this itinerary with list of villages along the way and needs to gauge how far they have to go to eat, sleep, resupply, so they can plan where each stop will be along their journey.  This is difficult to do on a regular map.  The distance might vary a lot from one person to the next.  A hiker might need to stop every 15km but a biker might go 40 or 50km before stopping.  This way they can look at the whole list at once and decide "ok, I need to stop at this village but not the next 3..." Clevercamel (talk) 19:05, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There is no problem with listing distances. Please do! Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:57, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I attempted to download a GPX of this trail for testing and got an error "No geocoded POI's in this WV acticle."   What did I do wrong? Clevercamel (talk) 23:27, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your work on this article. The United States uses the 12-hour clock to express times, so Wikivoyage uses the 12-hour clock for U.S. articles. More information on time and date formatting can be found at wv:time. Ground Zero (talk) 01:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Modified to fit the policy, but for reference I am born, bred, and live in the US and use 24hr time. Much easier and makes more sense. Clevercamel (talk) 13:52, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree that it's easier and makes more sense, but we go with what most people use in the country. Thanks. Ground Zero (talk) 14:26, 30 June 2024 (UTC)