User talk:(WT-en) Par5events

Welcome
Hello, Par5events! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Project:Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub.

Thanks for your contributions, but please have a look at Project:Welcome, business owners and Project:External links. Our external link policy is fairly strict, so linking to other travel guides is discouraged. You're welcome to add content about rafting and other adventure sports to our guides, however. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 11:18, 21 October 2009 (EDT)


 * Hello again - unfortunately your contributions have been reverted en masse. Wikivoyage is primarily meant for travelers, not business advertising, and while we welcome contributions from business owners we ask that those contributions conform to our policies.  Please have a look at the guidelines mentioned above as well as Project:Don't tout - edits which appear to be touting are generally immediately removed.  If you have questions you can respond on this talk page, on the talk page of the relevant policy page, or in the Pub. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 11:38, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

To User: Wrh2|Ryan - Hey there...a couple of questions. 1) Can you explain where I "touted" any more than the other Galapagos Islands providers under the Island Hoping section? Our listing for ROW (which is something I think a good travel guide would have us first) was one of the first listed on WikiTravel and we are the only company on earth that has the permit to do the things we do.  It's what we are famous for and I'm only being honest.  Not "touting".  2) Can we no longer link words? 3) Above I see that you mistakenly thought I linked to a "travel guide". This is not correct.  When I linked to Trusted Adventures...that is a well respected adventure travel alliance...it is not a "travel guide" at all.  So what would you have me do? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Par5events (talk • contribs)


 * Did you read the Project:Don't tout guidelines? Changing a list of tour operators that is in alphabetical order to put your listing first definitely seems like a questionable practice, as you did here.  Similarly, the guidelines linked to above are pretty clear about not using Wikivoyage for promotional purposes - this site is a travel guide, not an advertising brochure, so the fact that every edit you've made here is promoting a specific business has raised some eyebrows among editors.  You're welcome to contribute, but please read Project:Don't tout and Project:Welcome, business owners to get a better understanding of what this site is all about.  As to "link words" and the "travel alliance" site, see Project:External links, which explains how and when to use external links - that policy is also prominently linked from the edit screen just above the "Save Page" button on the edit screen.  -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 11:02, 18 December 2009 (EST)

To User: Wrh2|Ryan - Just made an update on whitewater sports. Can you check it out and see if it's ok. I've read all of the rules and think I'm in compliance now. Thank you!

To User: Wrh2|Ryan - I also added a listing to "Ecuadors" page under "Tour Operators". Can you please check that out and make sure it is ok? I just want to do it right. Thank you!


 * I think the key thing to get across is please don't use Wikivoyage for advertising. If your company runs great tours to the Galapagos and you want to put a listing in that article, add an informational listing that is within the guidelines mentioned previously.  However, if you've read Project:Don't tout you'll also note that a key guideline is "don't copy your listing into multiple articles" - adding listings to Ecuador and South America is spammy, is not valuable for travelers, and makes your company look bad in the eyes of other editors.  In general listings for tour operators are not one of the more valuable features of our guides - we'd rather tell travelers about a destination and give them the info they need to take a tour on their own - but we also recognize that there are some places (like the Galapagos) where they are necessary and so we want to provide information to allow visitors to make educated choices. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 00:58, 26 December 2009 (EST)

Tour listings
Please read our policy: Tour, in particular, no tour listings should go in the country/region/continent articles - tour agencies are only allowed in cities where they have an actual physical real world office. Furthermore we only allow tour companies that offer activities travellers cannot do by themselves - hikes for is often perfectly feasible to do on your own, while river rafting for example is not. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 21:59, 25 December 2009 (EST)

Ok...I'm super confused then. What about "Grand Canyon"...? There are "tour operators" listed there? Why are some place ok to have a "tour operator" section and other place/locations are not? 90% of those companies listed under the "Grand Canyon" do not have a "physical location". I think you guys should implement a rule to allow tour operators to list their companies underneath a section called "Tour Operators" at the bottom of locations. Seems to me like you let it pass in some places and you don't in others.


 * We have thousands of new listings every week to patrol. You will certainly find others that do not comply with Wikivoyage policy as we sometimes miss them. That does not change the policy. As for Grand Canyon, those you mention will be evaluated and deleted if appropriate. Thanks. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 05:13, 26 December 2009 (EST)


 * Most of the listings for Grand Canyon tour operators are those offering rafting, flightseeing, or helicopter tours; that falls into the "you can't do this on your own" category outlined in the tour listing policy. Even so, the list in the Grand Canyon article is getting spammy and will probably need to be trimmed down.  At the risk of endlessly repeating, do not use Wikivoyage for advertising - we recognize that in rare cases tour operators are necessary and/or popular, so current policy is designed around removing them in the 95% of cases where they are simply business advertising and of no real use in a travel guide while trying to allow the 5% that are actually useful. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 13:05, 26 December 2009 (EST)

Here we are again...under Grand Canyon you allow certain tour operators but it seems like you are not allowing others to add themselves anymore to the list. ?? Seems like you have an agenda here. What needs to happen for other companies to be listed? Why are these companies allowed?


 * The "agenda" here is to write guides that are useful for travelers. You're welcome to read the tour listing policy and the discussions that led to its creation and propose any changes you feel are necessary. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 17:50, 22 February 2010 (EST)


 * Since no one involved in Wikivoyage makes a dime of it, the agenda your implying is, well, laughable to be blunt. The questions you need to ask yourself is:
 * Do I offer a value added activity like rafting or paragliding which travellers can not do by themselves?
 * Is it operated by my own company (no resellers)?
 * Do I have a physical office at the location that customers can walk in to?
 * Have I read and understood tour, welcome business owners and don't tout?
 * If you can answer all questions in the affirmative, feel free to add your listing, otherwise don't. If you find any listing that doesn't follow these guidelines, by all means, help us get rid of them. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 17:54, 22 February 2010 (EST)