User talk:(WT-en) Kitsap

Hello Kitsap!

Welcome to Wikivoyage. Please take a sec to look at our copyleft and policies and guidelines, but feel free to plunge forward and edit some pages. Scanning the Manual of style, especially the article templates, can give you a good idea of how we like articles formatted. If you need help, check out Project:Help, and if you need some info not on there, post a message in the travellers' pub.

Please be aware that copying material from http://visitkitsap.com/ is a violation of copyright - unles you have the rights to do so. Please read Copyright details for the full story. Continuing to simply copy content without editorial input will result in all your contributions being voted for deletion. Please also look at our Article naming conventions and Project:External links guidelines. Some of your articles are named incorrectly and you are not linking to primary sources. -- (WT-en) Huttite 23:53, 18 Nov 2005 (EST)

Links to kitsap.com
Many of the pages that you have added today appear to have been copied from kitsap.com. That means they are copyright violations! Unless you can show - here - that you hold the copyright to re-publish the content of kitsap.com then other Wikivoyage will consider it a copyright violation. Also your links to kitsap.com do not follow our Manual of Style. If you persist on not following our guidelines then other users will continue to delete or change your work. Please respond here to stop this happening. -- (WT-en) Huttite 01:23, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)

Response
I wrote the sections of the VisitKitsap.com site I used. What do I need to do to show that?

For most of the 32 communities on the Kitsap Peninsula the individual city pages on VisitKitsap.com are their primary tourism sites. I see the point, but how do I do it correctly? My thought was to get the basics up and then I will go through city by city and add more content and additional links to all the various sites.

Thank you.


 * Thanks for advising that you are the author of the content you have been adding. However, even if you are the author, copyright law does not automatically give you the right to take what you have written for one organisation and publish it using another. Because the owners of the website VisitKitsap.com have published your material on their website the presumption is that they have the publishing rights. Unless you have an a contract or letter that says you either have the right or their permission to republish what you have written for them elsewhere then copyright is presumed to be with VisitKitsap.com - even though you wrote it! Proving it might require posting a copy of your employment contract or letter of authorisation, that says you can republish the material you wrote, as a scanned image. Alternatively, a copyright notice on the website that says how the content can be redistributed would be helpful. At present there is no copyright statement on the website so that means the copyright is exclusive until shown otherwise. -- (WT-en) Huttite 02:06, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)


 * As for getting things up and going. The content is certainly a base for starting Wikivoyage pages. I would suggest keeping the first line or so, which seem to follow Wikivoyage's format for saying a Place is in region, but then removing or editing the text that is a copy of that on VisitKitsap.com to match the Wikivoyage style and template layout. Put the URL links to the individual VisitKitsap.com pages into the Discussion page, so we do not lose them. Because these links are not the base URL they may change over time. They will also get removed accidentially if it is not clear that the URL refers to the official tourist information for the page. This is more likely to happen when the link identifier is a number not a place name - (tip for website designers here! Make URLs meanigful.) So unless you know of a better way to link to the individual pages that does not depend on a database ?id= number, then it may be best if they are left out of the article.


 * Sorry if this puts a dampener on all your hard work, but if it is not addressed now it will come back to haunt us later. -- 02:28, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)


 * PS To sign your name add ~ to the end of your comments and it will expand into your user name and a date and time stamp.

Good morning! I am not sure of where to respond - this is my page? Will someone see this respons? I have made a few modifications and additions to Bainbridge Island. Let me know if I am on track and I will add more in the other categories and cities. (WT-en) Kitsap 12:01, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)


 * Commonly the response should be on your own page so that the conversation will have a natural flow. Likely Huttite will think to check on your talk page next time he logs on since he started the conversation.  It is reasonable, though, that after a few days without response you may want to go to his talk page and point out that you've responded.  Very likely his own talk page is on his watchlist and will be noticed quickly.  Go ahead and continue your conversation here.  -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 12:58, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)

Pages affected
The following pages were created based on content the same as on http://visitkitsap.com/


 * Fox Island
 * Kitsap County
 * Union
 * Tracyton
 * Tahuya
 * Suquamish
 * Southworth
 * Silverdale
 * Seabeck
 * Retsil
 * Purdy
 * Poulsbo
 * Port Orchard
 * Port Gamble
 * Olalla
 * Manchester
 * Kingston
 * Holly
 * Gorst
 * Dewatto
 * Chico
 * Brownsville
 * Burley
 * Keyport
 * Indianola
 * Hansville
 * Gig Harbor
 * Bremerton
 * Belfair
 * "Bangor" - moved to Bangor (Kitsap)
 * Kitsap Peninsula - has been rewritten for region template.
 * Allyn
 * Bainbridge Island

New Articles
Just as a note - you don't have to create every new article with (Washington) in the name. We only specify something like the state when there is another place in the world by that same name. It may be best if dig through the links that are in the Welcome message at the top of the screen, looking mostly at the Manual of Style.

You can find out about the naming schemes I mentioned above here: Project:Disambiguation pages.

Thanks for your hard work - all together everything will get smoothed out. -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 12:56, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)

Help Please
I meant to add Washington to all the cities I am working on (on the Kitsap Peninsula - washington state) so that they would not be confused with other communities with the same name in other areas - some were and someone else added the Washington, so I just did it to all of them. But, of course now there are two pages - such as Poulsbo, and Poulsbo (Washington). When doing searches only the blank Poulsbo comes up and not the Poulsbo (Washington). I thought I was editing, not adding a second page. How do I delete these older pages? thank you, anyone. (WT-en) Kitsap 13:04, 19 Nov 2005 (EST) PS - seems easier to get the Washinton in now, instead of later when there may be more links set up. Befair, for example is not the only Belfair in the country and certainly not the world, etc. Others you just never know what might be out there.


 * Hi Kitsap. Usually we only specify the geographical hierarchy of an article in it's title when we absolutely have to in order to disambiguate the destination from another destination with a similar name. If Poulsbo is the only Poulsbo then that should be the name of the article too.  If on the other hand there is another Poulsbo then perhaps we need disambiguation.  Still, under our system the most famous destination with a given name should be just the name.  See London and London (Ontario) for a prime example. -- (WT-en) Mark 13:38, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)

Yes, but now that I have the two pages, how do I get rid of the plain Poulsbo, and keep only the Poulsbo (Washington)? (WT-en) Kitsap 14:50, 19 Nov 2005 (EST) - PS - since so many cities are yet to be added and any city on the Kitsap Peninsula is probably going to be the smaller, less recognized city, it seems only common sense to add (Washington) now instead of having problems in the future?????


 * Make sure that the information is on the page that is named correctly - that's the first step. If you aren't sure of a second Poulsbo in the world, then put the information there.  It's really not that difficult to correc this in the future if we find a second one.  On the page that is not named correctly, go through the process to vote for deletion.  -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 14:56, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)


 * You should keep Poulsbo and redirect Poulsbo (Washington) to Poulsbo. In the Article naming conventions the advice is to use the shortest name. There is no need for the (Washington), unless and until we get 2 articles about different places called Poulsbo. But if they are already there leave the names alone until you have finished developing one of the articles and redirected the other. So we do not get confused. -- (WT-en) Huttite 15:02, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)


 * Ok - I see your problem. You have developed Poulsbo (Washington) but we want at Poulsbo. At this time keep developing Poulsbo (Washington) even though everything is pointing to Poulsbo. I will drop in a Redirect on Poulsbo and we might be able to move the page there later - if needed. The most important thing is to ONLY develop one page. -- (WT-en) Huttite 15:07, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)


 * I said this on my talk page but I think it is worth repeating here. Please stop creating more articles with (Washington) as you will create a rod for your own back. Develop the original 32 article names. The only issue I have is that the ORIGINAL content was dubious, but that can be changed... However, once names are created they are a pain to manage if they are duplicates - as we are all just learning now! Decide on one name to use - preferably the shortest name and ONLY develop that one. ONLY develop an article with (Washington) in the article name IF there is ALREADY another place in Wikivoyage. -- (WT-en) Huttite 15:17, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)
 * Reading this later: So I broke my own rules and didn't follow my own advice fixing this - but it seemed easier to go with the flow at that stage and was easier to fix. In the future the pages can be moved back but that is in the future - possibly the far future. The pages exist and the articles are there and linked. This advice is really meant for new pages. -- (WT-en) Huttite 23:22, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)
 * OK! I have just redirected most of the places in the list in the section above to the pages with (Washington) in the article name. Guess what! The ONLY place WITHOUT (Washington) in the title that NEEDS (Washington) in the title is Bangor! This is of course an example of Murphy's Law in action! And it should really be called Bangor (Kitsap) according to OUR rules. So I will move that page there and create a disambiguation page. Then you should be all go.
 * One question: some of these places are pretty small - can someone find (rent) a place to sleep there overnight? Buy a meal?? If one cannot sleep there it is doubtful the place makes it as a destination and it just becomes an attraction on the Kitsap Peninsula page. I will let it go for now, but do not be surprised if someone later merges the pages. To stop this happening, say all you can about these places. -- (WT-en) Huttite 16:35, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)
 * Bangor disambiguation page now created. You might like to look at it. It even surprised me how many places are called Bangor. In the future if you want to add (Washington) or (Kitsap) or anything else inside "(" and ")" to the end of a place name please be sure a page exists of the same name but without the "(" and ")" and a link to the disambiguated name - the one with "(" and ")" - is on that page. It can either be a Redirect page or a Disambiguation page - but it saves confusion and double entry. - (WT-en) Huttite 17:57, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)

Apology if I confused you
I am sorry if this has been confusing and rather overwhelming to you but I hope this experience does not put you off. I can see you have done lots of hard work and want to share it. The thing that made me take action was the 32 new articles you added in an hour. That sort of volume attracts attention as it looks like spam. Unlike an ordinary website, Wikivoyage is like being on live TV, where everyone watching can see what you are doing. Most of the time we just watch what is happening and let things go by. Sometimes we see things happening that should not be - that is when we become policemen and step in to sort out the mess. Most of the time, such as in your case, it is a little problem where some advice is needed.

Keep editing your Kitsap pages with the "(" and ")" in the titles. I have redirected all pages to these. However you do not need to have "(" and ")" in titles unless there are 2 places with the same name.

I also admit I may have confused you. I did move the places you had ended with (WA) to (Washington) as "WA" is also the state code for Western Australia and Wikivoyage is read around the world, not just in the USA. (BTW:I am in New Zealand - half a world away from Kitsap!) I realise you may not have been aware of any of this, So I apologise for confusing you.

I have also read back over your responses. - Yes you respond on this - your talk - page. You can tell us anything you want about yourself on your (WT-en) user page - though it is public. So you might just want to say that you wrote the content for VisitKitap.Com at - this stage - though it makes a good story if you also tell us how you came to write it and what your relationship with Kitsap is - like you live there and obviously love the place. All in all I think you are doing well and getting the hang of things around here. I look forward to reading the finished articles - they have started out pretty well - all things considered. That said it is almost Sunday lunchtime here in NZ and time I got breakfast. -- (WT-en) Huttite 17:57, 19 Nov 2005 (EST)

Thank you!
Yes, I'm confused

No, I won't be discouraged

Yes, I will get better

I need to reread what everyone wrote, look at the pages and I will eventually figure it out and get better. I will also add something to the page about me. As an FYI - I am the Director of Tourism Development for the Kitsap Peninsula Visitor & Convention Bureau. The VisitKitsap.com website has been my "baby" - I am not a web developer, but I worked with a wonderful company and helped with the concept and design. I wrote most of the copy, took most of the pictures and work on it daily. I live on the Kitsap Peninsula, love it, and earlier added to wikipedia (sp?) and do need to go back and improve, but recently heard about this site and thought it an even better place to talk about Kitsap.

My thought is to get it set up (all comments and help appreciated!) get the basics down - get in the lodging, museums, etc and then encourge others in our area to add. This is a beautiful place, close to Seattle, but a ferry ride away.

Back to the photo part - I took most of the photos on VisitKitsap and will be adding some of those and others I have taken and not used anywhere else. Can you point me to the area that talks about how, what, how many, format for uploading photos? I won't get to this part for a while (swamped at work) but give me some time!

Thanks again for the help!

Welcome
Hi. I just wanted to stop in and say thanks for your contributions on the Kitsap Peninsula and the communities there.

It's one of my big hopes that regional experts like yourself will take the time to work on guides for their regions. I think that having well-written travel guides available for towns and regions can be a big help for local tourist industries. And, obviously, it's indispensible for travellers.

I think that we can leave it up to you and your employer that you understand our copyright policy and that you're willing to release the contributions made here under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike license.

Thanks again for your work and please feel free to ask me or any other Wikivoyager if you need a hand. --(WT-en) Evan 12:54, 20 Nov 2005 (EST)

Wikivoyage update
Hi Kitsap,

I don't know if you have been keeping up with the wikivoyage website, but it is out of beta and operating in the real world. I'm a part time resident of Kitsap and have added to some wikipedia articles but my real project has been wikivoyage and Kitsap has become one of my pet projects. I realized as I've been working that much of the info that I've been working with was added by you and it looks like it was originally from the visit Kitsap website.

I'm trying to get it all up to the wikivoyage standard and it is unfortunately a bit of a challenge, like fitting a square peg in a round hole. I hope you will take some time to browse through some of my changes and additions. Its still got a ways to go but I think its well on its way to becoming a star article. If you have more photos that you could add to wiki commons it would really help fill in some of the gaps. Lumpytrout (talk) 21:48, 17 March 2013 (UTC)