Template talk:Mapshapes

New public transport map features
I plunged forward and added Template:rint and Template:Mapshapes, mainly for usage with dynamic maps.

The former is a copy from wikipedia - if there's no objections, I'd setup a bot to keep this in sync (perhaps the articles could be made read-only for normal users?). So far I only imported a few subtemplates for central europe (so e.g. Berlin and Vienna use it). The only issue is that the template generates links to subway articles, which is probably not too useful for WV. Perhaps there's some way to fix this via some nifty template hack? Also, wikipedia recommends to not use the icons in-line with text - but I think in a travel guide it's quite useful to have it this way. Right?

The Mapshapes stuff seems to work OK too, it's used in Prague, Vienna, Berlin and Naples currently. I tried London too, but not sure yet how complete the map is. E.g. Munich is not prepared at all, currently. Making this work means interlinking wikidata and OSM stuff, then putting the Mapshapes thing into the article... But that's still much easier than trying to create the vector lines manually.

If there are any questions... Andree.sk (talk) 09:52, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't think the links to subway articles are bad per se but it might be annoying if one "accidentally" clicks them, especially on mobile. Most of our articles basically just state that a subway exists but give little background on history or architecture. The main exception I know of is Berlin where I inserted a bit because the effects of partition in particular are just so endlessly fascinating. However it barely scratches the surface and any discussion of the Berlin U-Bahn that doesn't mention Grenander cannot be considered complete. Thing is: I know next to nothing about Hamburg U-Bahn and the history of Nuremberg U-Bahn is not particularly interesting or long. Maybe we could go into a bit more depth for NYC subway or the tube? Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:09, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I love the mapshapes feature. I've in the past added metro systems to dynamic maps by creating the lines manually and saving them to wikicommons (for instance Singapore/Riverside), but that is a lot of work. One feature which would be nice to have, would be showing stations and station names, nevertheless I think this is a great feature as it is. One question I have is: how do I see whether the coordinates for the lines are linked to the wikidata element? And if it isn't, is there a way to add them ourselves?  Drat70 (talk) 12:54, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The stations are a bit nontrivial - I didn't see them mentioned in the wikidata articles I saw so far. So you'd have to do it from scratch. Implementing this into the Mapshapes module wouldn't be too big problem, I think.
 * The OSM-wikidata linking is a detective work, actually :) Here's the steps I did for the few cities I did so far:
 * Find the wikidata entry for the metro. Quickest way seems to be - google "$city metro wiki" to find the wikipedia article, then click "Wikidata item" on the wikipedia page. Sometimes also direct search on wikidata.org works :)
 * Check that the wikidata entry has "has parts" statements, listing all the lines. If not, you'll have to find the lines (usually the wikipedia article has them listed/linked as articles, so you can find wikidata IDs from wikipedia again) and add them to the parent wikidata.
 * Finally, the wikidata entries for the individual lines have to refer to OSM data and vice versa, this is described in Template:Mapshape, and additionally it should contain either "sRGB color hex triplet", or at least "color" statement. If there's no OSM link, you need to go to openstreetmap and try to find whether at least the relations are mapped (I'd say all metro lines will be). Usually the OSM relation ID was missing in the wikidata article (most OSM relations had wikidata tag already, on the other hand), so you need to find the metro lines in OSM first. Usually it's enough to find one line in OSM and then click to parent relations. Most of the cities had a "super relation" referencing all the metro lines...
 * If there's some real interest, I could put some guide to the template, maybe even with some pictures. On the other hand, it'd be probably good to know some basic OSM/wikidata-fu to understand the above (and not break too much stuff in the process :) ). However, I have a plan to make a bot to do this automagically in case at least one direction of links (OSM->wikidata or wikidata->OSM) exists. :) Andree.sk (talk) 17:15, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

I have been waiting and hoping for something like this to appear for a while, so thank you Andree.sk! The maps you've made so far look really cool. My only concern is that the lines are a bit thick, especially when the map is zoomed out. The London map is complete as far as the Underground goes, though would benefit from also showing Overground and DLR as well, and possibly trams in South London.
 * It doesn't matter what kind of transport it is, so of course even Tramlinks could be added (you'd have to fill stuff into, the referenced 'has part' sub-articles; e.g. here's tramlink 4 - OSM relation 7560907 (no links between OSM and wikidata :. But as you pointed out, in some zooms the maps could get too cluttered, so perhaps this could use some usability improvements later - esp. if Roland manages to bring in some cool features from de: later, the dynamic maps could really become very interesting. But hey - it's a first step...

Depending on how easy the instructions are to follow for a novice, I might be interested in making my own metro maps for other cities. Overall, this is an exciting new feature, and something which I hope will be rolled out across a good number of articles. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:17, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It's actually relatively simple, but you have to have OSM account to make changes there, obviously.. :) I'll try to put together some step-by-step tomorrow... Andree.sk (talk) 19:13, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Can we make the links point elsewhere? I just found that when one clicks on the B or C in Prague it prompts one to create an article of "Line C of Prague Metro" or some such on Wikivoyage where it is out of scope. Can we just have those point to Wikipedia instead? Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:30, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, done - at least we won't get unwanted articles until we sort it out... Andree.sk (talk) 19:13, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I think we might at some point think about stuff like Tramways in cities without metros but one step at a time. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:09, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Nuremberg U-Bahn
So I tried with this edit to add the U-Bahn lines to Nuremberg. Unfortunately to no avail. Is there a problem with the wikidata object or did I do something wrong? I would like to know and would appreciate help. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:47, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The problem for as far as I can tell is with the Wikidata object. It needs to have a OSM relation ID, which the Nuremberg U-Bahn, which you linked, does not have. I lack the knowledge to tell you exactly how to add one step by step, but it's roughly described above. I'm guessing the step-by-step guide Andree mentioned above might help a lot once it's done :) -- Wauteurz (talk) 20:51, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately there are no dedicated Wikipedia articles for the individual lines of Nuremberg U-Bahn. Don't ask me why. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:58, 19 February 2018 (UTC)


 * You can always go ahead and make them yourself. I assume separate objects do not need to exist unless you want the difference in colours between lines (for the record, a wikidata object does not have to be linked to a Wikipedia article, but vice versa gets created for every Wikipedia article). I had a brief swing at creating an own line for a Dutch railway line from the OSM data yesterday night around this time, but I swiftly after gave up because of how much work was ahead of me (lines are broken up into many pieces and I'd have to stitch them together first). I say we first let these templates be implemented where possible, and then add them to articles which do not have the necessary OSM-Wikidata links in place. Not in the first place because the documentation at that point might have improved to where anyone can add lines. -- Wauteurz (talk) 21:08, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Not sure about which line are you talking about, but in OSM, the structure usually is that there are multiple ways - grouped together into relations (mainly because a single way (or other node) may be part of multiple routes, for example). At least for the major lines, there usually is a relation already created by the OSM editors... Andree.sk (talk) 08:02, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I would like to but I have no idea where to even start. For reasons passing understanding however there are Wikipedia articles about literally every single U-Bahn stop in Nuremberg so maybe something could be made from that... Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:03, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I checked Nuremberg. About 1/2 of the parts is actually already in place - wikidata entries exist for the lines, and the OSM relations for them exist as well. But the links are all over the place, so it would be a good example of how to do it. So... I'll take this and put tutorial how it was converted into actual mapshapes, into the Mapshapes documentation. Today-ish :) Andree.sk (talk) 08:02, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. As a quick follow up: the U-Bahn is verbrochen being expanded with the latest new station coming online in May 2017 (Nordwestring along U3) and a new station under construction for opening in 2019 (Großreuth along U3). How would such an update be dealt with if and when needed? Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:51, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Tutorial added
See Template:Mapshapes. Try to fix/finish Nuremberg, let me know what's missing (or fix it directly :) ). I'd say the tutorial is already a bit too long, so perhaps let's not extend it too much - one has to understand what he's doing, so that we don't make too much mess in wikidata/OSM :) Andree.sk (talk) 21:37, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * So if I understand you correctly it should show up on the map in a few days? Because it does not currently show up in the map of Nuremberg. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:49, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I have left it undone for you to try to do it... I can do it, though, if you'd rather start that way :) As I wrote previously, I'd like to handle this via some automated bot (at least creating the wikidata structures for all metro transport systems, and perhaps filling in OSM references into wikidata if the OSM counterpart is already done), so I don't want to do it manually now - I'll need some playground in a few days :) Andree.sk (talk) 05:55, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I tried playing around with Wikidata for the Nuremberg Metro. Please tell me what is still missing for the lines to show up. If all is there and we just have to wait, that's cool, too. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:11, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The wikidata stuff looks okay, you can now even see at the bottom of the map that the wikidata entries for the lines were added. But OSM wasn't updated to point to the right wikidata (they all still point to Q697512). Maybe it will work nevertheless - we can wait a few days and see... Otherwise we'll have to fix OSM too. Andree.sk (talk) 07:57, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I have no idea how one fixes that in Wikidata. And given that German WP has no articles on the individual lines, could you please make those three edits accordingly? I just tried and failed... Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:25, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually you did the right thing with OSM changeset 56585993! You can already see the line in the Nuremberg article even :) I can fix U1/U2 if you don't do it, later today... Andree.sk (talk) 07:35, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

please do. I don't know how and why it worked there and I might not have to time to do it today... Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:16, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * So I think the Wikidata stuff has been done now... And the OSM stuff too. When will U1 and U2 show up in the map? Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:06, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I'd say later today or tomorrow... (U1 already shows up) Andree.sk (talk) 07:23, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I tried to add (only) U1 to Fürth because U1 is the only one that serves the city but I could not get it to show up without U2 and U3 also showing up. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:35, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Such filtering function wasn't supported - it is now ;-) Andree.sk (talk) 08:10, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Light rail and Stadtbahn systems
I know that and how we can integrate subways into the dynamic maps now but what about tramway, light rail or Stadtbahn systems? The latter is underground in the city center but runs like a tramway outside of town. Cologne, Frankfurt, Bielefeld would be examples. Trams can also be of transportation interest; of Germany's four subway cities three (Nuremberg, Berlin, Munich) actually have a tram. However they are often seen as "lesser" so there might be a need for a distinction in the map how would that be done? And then there is the issue of maps getting too busy what with Trams in Melbourne or Trams in Berlin. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:40, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * We should draw a line somewhere... Showing the whole transport network is already possible if you click the fullscreen button on the map, and then "Traffic line network". But for me personally, when I travel in the big cities, I just want to see the easy ways of transports between sights, unless it's unavoidable to use buses or such (even then I'd probably go by foot if it's ~ <). So I'd say we should only provide the most important lines + textual description in directions, if some sights are too far away. E.g. in Berlin, I added the ring rail in addition to u-bahn, since it's very handy to use even for a traveler....
 * If there's no metro, for sure the common means of transport in the city could be displayed, instead. Anything that has wikidata structure like metro systems (the has-parts thing and OSM links) can be displayed using the Mapshapes template... Otherwise you can use Mapshape template to show just some particular lines manually. Andree.sk (talk) 15:59, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I would be more inclined to put trams on the map for cities in the UK, U.S. and France where the networks are a lot smaller than those you find in Germany, Switzerland, and ex-Eastern bloc countries. For instance the largest tram network in Britain (Manchester's Metrolink) is equivalent to a medium-sized metro system. Even for Greater Paris, it would be useful to put in the tramways, as they tend to serve the suburbs where the Metro fears to tread. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:46, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Trams in Dresden are one of Germany's longest systems and still a manageable 12 lines (1 to 4 and 6 to 13 don't ask me why there is no 5) on a length comparable to some metro systems. And arguably they do a better job of serving public transportation needs than the 8 lines of Nuremberg U-Bahn and tram (U1 to U3 Tram 4 through 8) which habe a much shorter overall network. And again the line blurs considerably for cities with Stadtbahn or "pre-metro" systems. And then there are S-Bahns in general... Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:12, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Display stations?
Andree.sk, nice development. Have you thought of displaying stations as well? I guess it should not be too difficult if they are listed within the 'has parts' property of the metro line. --Alexander (talk) 18:31, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Everything is possible :) However the few metro maps I "prepared" didn't contain the stations listed in a simple list. It certainly could be digged out from wikidata in many cases... But in the end I'm not sure that having all stations on the map would help that much (esp. with the current listing|type=go approach, it'd get cluttered fast). If we could improve the interactive-ness (e.g. that metro stations would only become visible, including stop names, when mouse pointer is nearby the metro line), maybe it'd make sense. But AFAIK the map wikipedia is currently defunct, so we have to work with what we have :( I guess in the following weeks this will be the most we can get out of it... Andree.sk (talk) 19:56, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I think they could get their own markers and styling, one of the icons here with pale gray color will be distinguishable from type=go. I would at least give it a try. It is perhaps less relevant for overall city maps, like in Prague, but will be very useful for districts, where only a few metro stations are located. --Alexander (talk) 21:24, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It is possible to place markers with a maki icon on a map (with other colors besides gray) and not clutter up an article page with listings etc. - I tested creating train stations in the Netherlands out of curiosity on my Sandbox2 page. -- I reached a limit of 350+ or so markers on a map before process dies with a GeoJSON error. (note: Train stations were not found in a Wikidata list)
 * Actually, the German colleges also have something like this already. We will likely see some discussion regarding getting that stuff to en:WV...Andree.sk (talk) 08:19, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Also testing the idea of navigating a list on Wikidata - be aware that while a short list will work fairly well. The longer list might run into 2 possible errors: NOT ENOUGH MEMORY and Time allocated for scripts has expired. If I remember correctly one was caused amount of processing being done by the module (or my funky coding) and the other by the imposed processing time limit (about 10 secs). Also, Wikidata entries from what I have seen do not have lists for everything.
 * It's a good question what Wikidata servers can tolerate. I expect doing some brutal queries over 500 items will be frowned upon :) The memory limits of WV is then another thing... Andree.sk (talk) 08:19, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Fear not - other issues may rise as well. -- Matroc (talk) 01:12, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Stations are/should be part of the underlying geodata and show up with a small train like icon on maps. In the interest of not cluttering maps, I think let's not include them for the time being. Stations also move more and faster than lines do, so this adds another layer of headache. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:21, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Tram and metro lines are part of the underlying geodata too. --Alexander (talk) 22:38, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * No I mean there is already the icon in the "blank" map before we add in listings, mapshapes, anything. If we add in the mapshape for the line people can search for the icon and know where what is. Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:45, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, and metro lines are in the blank map too. If they are highlighted, why not highlight the stations as well? Taking the Prague example, the blank map shows hundreds of these train icons, basically all metro stations and all tram stops. It's quite a mess, so distinguishing metro stations could be useful. --Alexander (talk) 00:02, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It's not a mess. Many of our maps are too busy as is especially when zoomed fully out. The train icons become visible when zoomed in enough the lines are good for overview. I also don't yet fully see why S-Bahn lines are mostly not mentioned but U-Bahn are. Also what about Frankfurt or Cologne? Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:13, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Potsdam tramway
I think Potsdam is a good test case of whether introducing a tramway into the map makes sense. It is a city of some size, but its Tramway system is not exactly extremely complicated. However, I don't think the requisite Wikidata and OSM stuff exists... Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:58, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Definitely doable, but there aren't even the wikidata article for the individual lines yet, so there's some work ahead to be done... However, the OSM data look ok (except for the obviously missing wikidata tags). Welp, it will take a while to extend all major cities with this feature :) Andree.sk (talk) 19:04, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Single color subways
So I just added the Wikidata ID to a mapshapes template (btw why are the two templates named so dizzyingly similar?) in Brussels and Hamburg and while what I assume to be metro lines show up, alright, they are all black, hence no individual lines can be discerned. Now while Transport in Brussels is its own can of worms with regards to the (lack of) distinction between tram, pre-metro and metro, Hamburg at least had the (stupid, but I digress) decision taken to whittle it down to U-Bahn and nothing else. Still, it'd be nice to have line colors. But I gather for that there'd have to be the respective Wikidata entries with colors and whatnot, right? Maybe include that problem ("all lines are black") in the tutorial and say how to fix it. Thanks. Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:54, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yup, the wikidata are just missing the colors, it's already in the tutorial. You can usually find those easily in the related wikipedia articles, and just enter them into wikidata. More interestingly it works even though the OSM references are missing :-/ PS: the name was invented because mapshapes just create bunch of mapshape "objects"... :) Andree.sk (talk) 18:59, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Children of children?
Some systems,such as the Stockholm Metro, have lines inside lines (for example, inside Stockholm's Green Line is lines 17,18 and 19). While one can indeed merely make mapshapes templates for each child with children, that can get inconvenient, especially for bigger systems or even national rail lines. Is there a way to display children (level 2) of children (level 1) when the parent (level 0) is applied to it? MSG17 (talk) 17:40, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Nope, unfortunately this is not implemented currently... But it's technically possible, of course - one just hast to find time to add such feature :) Andree.sk (talk) 20:07, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for telling me. MSG17 (talk) 14:40, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
 * No - thank you for adding the mapshapes to all the cities! :) Regarding this topic - if you find this issue very limiting (e.g. if it means you have to manually add 10x mapshapes to 10 cities), I could have a look on it sometime next week. But if it's just one or two quickly resolved occurrences, it wouldn't make sense trying to implement this (as I expect it will take at least an hour or two). Andree.sk (talk) 19:35, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I checked and it really only affects two cities - Frankfurt and Stockholm. I don't think that it's a very established convention for metros. The main reason I was looking into this was the Chinese rail speed rail system, but it doesn't really amke sense to put the whole system on dynmaps due to the sheer breadth of it. Better to put individual lines as needed. So yeah, it's not a big issue. MSG17 (talk) 14:34, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Subway mapshapes for Hamburg not working
For some reason the mapshapes for the Hamburg U-Bahn and S-Bahn do not show up in the dynamic maps despite still being present in the source code. I just checked the Nuremberg article where the lines still show up so the issue seems to be specific to those lines, not the template in general. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:46, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Probably someone on Wikidata or somewhere inadvertently screwing up something... --Ypsilon (talk) 21:52, 18 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Looks like an OSM-user has gone ahead and moved the wikidata links into the route masters (A ↔ B) rather than a single route (A → B). I suspect this is the reason why it broke, since Mapshapes gets a bit pedantic about route masters (which don't show the lines themselves even in OSM. Take for example U4's master and Billstedt-Elbbrücke). I can understand why the edit on OSM was made: The WD item is for the line itself, not the line in one of its directions. I'm not sure if the template here can be modified to also work with route masters in OSM or not . If not, the edit on OSM will have to be reverted to fix this issue. -- Wauteurz (talk) 14:15, 19 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Yep, this is most likely the reason. Unfortunately Mapshapes can't really do anything about this, as this is technically Mapshape work - which in turn just uses the kartographer code. This limitation is there since the beginning, probably (it's documented also, in Mapshapes). So either we add the wikidata back to the single routes too, or... well, I would say there's no other option that would work in the near months/years, for us. -- andree.sk (talk) 06:42, 21 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Complicated option until such fixes become available would be to get all the coordinates and make an extermal file in Commons and use that or use the coordinates and make a hard copy on the Hamburg (or some selected) page. Other articles could then transclude that code. -- Matroc (talk) 02:27, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Mapshape issues
Why is the Staten Island Railway line not showing on the Staten Island article? Also, why are the boundaries for Aceh, North Sumatra, and Jakarta/South not showing? Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:41, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You can show the boundaries by implementing mapshapes with the correct Wikidata-ID. I did it for Aceh. Feel free to implement it for the other ones as well.--Renek78 (talk) 13:35, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The Staten Island Railway wasn't showing because it's not the correct type. mapshapes only draws Wikidata items that are parent items, meaning they have a P527/"has part" or P2670/"has parts of the class" property. For individual railway/subway lines, it's necessary to use mapshape and manually specify some parameters indicating how to draw the shapes. I fixed this for Staten Island. --Bigpeteb (talk) 21:12, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The Aceh one still does not show, the map is only greyed out without the shape. The OpenStreetMap relation for Aceh already includes the Wikidata ID, I don't know what's wrong. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:09, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * That's odd, the one for Aceh seems to work on my computer. —Granger (talk · contribs) 06:49, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Grey dots are now appearing on all maps with railway lines
Starting from about a month ago, I've noticed that the railway lines on many of our maps are lined with big grey dots. See Hainan, Chengdu and New Taipei for example. Can anyone explain what they are doing there? They look rather unsightly to me and they obscure some of the markers. STW932 (talk) 13:58, 11 November 2021 (UTC)


 * They are shaped like markers. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:16, 11 November 2021 (UTC)


 * I've noticed these too. If there were only one or two of them per line, they would be useful for readers to be able to tell which line is which. But with so many of them, they're more distracting than helpful. —Granger (talk · contribs) 18:19, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 * It is a pity that we can't choose which markers to display when zoomed out. Looking at New Tapei at street level the markers, which are about 1km apart could be useful, but are useless when looking at the whole city. This only affects some cities with railway lines - i don't see anything on Glasgow. On New Tapei, the markers disappear if you delete
 * , which removes the railways. AlasdairW (talk) 19:42, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The problem that's underlying here, is that the Kartographer extension got a fix about a month ago when these markers started appearing. Their origin is found on OSM, and these markers are stations or stops that are added to the OSM Relation (which is where the shape of the line comes from). I'm not sure if there is a way to have Mapshapes ignore these and only print polyline elements, but that might be a straight-forward fix. any thoughs? -- Wauteurz (talk) 20:52, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 * It is as far, as I can tell, originating in OSM -- the only thought I have is that if the data coming out of an OSM relation could be parsed to remove Points when producing a mapline/mapshape? -- obtain the coordinates and put them in data file(s) on Commons. I would not recommend editing OSM directly as this may cause some conflict. Matroc (talk) 06:36, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * If the station markers were small, they wouldn't be as disruptive, and they'd still serve their function. I assume choosing how to show them is done in our end. Would it be difficult? –LPfi (talk) 09:55, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * This appears on different wikivoyage sites as well (ie. Moscow as an example). The data retrieved from OSM appears to me that we are getting what is called a "Feature Collection" (lines and points - and in future possibly even polygons and not just simple lines. Unfortunately, this OSM process via our templates is not my area of expertise and probably should be referred to developers to look into. -- Matroc (talk) 08:30, 16 November 2021 (UTC)


 * I detected this behavior of needless pushpin markers for geoline and geoshape objects about one month ago and I opened a phabricator bug report. The cause is that the GeoJSON object returned by the map server contains point objects which should not happen (example: Vienna U2 subway line). There is also the problem that authors cannot modify these pushpins (colors, sizes, etc). --RolandUnger (talk) 07:59, 16 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Didn't see your reply -- Thanks Matroc (talk) 08:31, 16 November 2021 (UTC)


 * I'm seeing this at Caldas da Rainha, which has geoshapes for civil parish boundaries only, no rail lines. I'm not sure what the unnumbered gray markers represent, and if I try correlating to say the geographical center or headquarters building of parishes, it's inconsistent. --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 19:24, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Faulty tansport overlay on dynamic maps
Hello, it's been a while. I was looking at The Hague yesterday and noticed the transport overlay on the dynamic map had something weird going on with it; what look like grey markers following the course of each line and obscuring much of the map. Today, I notice the same on Berlin. Can anyone else see these? What about on other articles? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:50, 26 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it's the same with Singapore 2006nishan178713t@lk 16:56, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 * New Delhi too 2006nishan178713t@lk 16:57, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I see it on Grande Milano. This looks awful. Whoever changed the map coding to enable that should fix it or change it back. This has been going on for too long. Ground Zero (talk) 16:58, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I remember we had a discussion about this on Talk:Japan where we decided to comment out all transit lines as they had the grey dot issue. You can do that as a temporary fix but it would be better to remove the grey dots. Tai123.123 (talk) 18:12, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 * It's been a problem for a while now and it's annoying, but we have little control over it. In some cases like Canberra/City, it works well, but in others like Singapore or Canberra, it looks ugly. I don't think we have control over the grey dots and I believe it comes from OpenStreetMap – so we can either leave it (which leaves the pestering grey dots), or remove it (which sadly removes the railway lines). SHB2000 (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta.wikimedia) 23:13, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Yep, it's been discussed in the pub before as well (archived here). In a nutshell, these markers come from OSM, and are created by stations along the lines we draw on the map, but they're not filtered out when rendering the map (yet). The Phabricator task for this issue has been dormant since early February however. Though, I agree that a fix is much overdue already. Legibility of dynamic maps is impacted too much to even warrant adding transport lines in the first place. -- Wauteurz (talk) 23:43, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 * That's another problem that should go into Johanna's survey.
 * I realize that there's sort of an extra step involved in reporting this, but I suspect that it's important that these problems get reported through the official survey link, which is https://wikimedia.sslsurvey.de/Kartographer-Workflows-EN/. It's very good to have multiple people reporting the same problem, so please don't assume that someone else will, or worry that you are duplicating efforts. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:49, 27 March 2022 (UTC)