Template talk:Exchange rate euros

Discussion
Do we need a discussion before this can go live in more than a single digit number of articles? I thought there was a rule on templates regarding this... Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:18, 7 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm fairly new here, so I didn't know there was a rule. I saw this as an extension of the Template:exchange rates, which few people seem to want to have input on, so I pressed ahead. The discussion has been about your suggestion to add regional currencies, which I don't think is an issue here - they can be added later if you like. There has been some discussion about not having exchange rates, but that seems to contradict Country_article_template, which says "Include here information on the currency and rough conversion rates for major currencies used by English-speaking travelers (US, Australian, Canadian dollars, euros, British pounds)."
 * I will hold off on adding this to any more articles to see if there is any discussion on this.
 * If the euro template is okay with everyone, I will also create ones for other currencies used in several countries, i.e., pounds sterling, US dollars, CFA francs, EC dollars. Ground Zero (talk) 22:41, 7 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I am only raising this because of the discussion over at Template talk:Expedition, where it was questioned whether a template can be widely implemented without prior consensus. Maybe this issue should be raised in the pub and/or those active in that other discussion should be pinged here. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:40, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Fair enough. At the WV:Travellers' pub on January 1, I started the discussion on creating an infobox, then a template, to display updated exchange rates. I also posed a question about the template at Wikivoyage talk:Currency on January 5. I don't know how long is considered appropriate to wait before moving on something. Much of the discussion was about creating a dynamic template instead on a static one so that it wouldn't have to be updated, but looking through the pub, this is has been tossed around for a couple of years without anything happening. There wasn't really a whole lot of response to my proposal for the template, so I figured it was okay to go ahead.

The exchange rates in most of our articles are badly out of date - 2014 is common, and I saw one that was 2010. I'm willing to update them, and the template is, I think, an improvement because it includes a link to current rates (and rates for other currencies) at an external site. I am using specific links, so that if you click the link on the Nicaragua page, you are taken to the external site showing rates for Nicaraguan córdobas. You don't have to poke about in that site to find the information. Ground Zero (talk) 01:17, 8 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Look, I am not arguing anything, I just observed that there was some controversy over at Template talk:Expedition and I was of the impression that all templates had to be discussed before being "widely implemented" (whatever that means) - updating currency conversions certainly is a good idea and a noble goal and I applaud you for it, but I would not like someone to say procedures were not followed or something of the sorts with regards to this template. If I jumped the gun, I apologize. Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:29, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh I get that. I'm just laying out my arguments to get the discussion started. I understand the process. I just want to make sure that the discussion is about using templates, and notabout the substance of the edits. If I were making these edits as part of the text, they would be consistent with existing policy. Ground Zero (talk) 01:35, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Appreciate your efforts here. I'm not comfortable with the implication that only travelers from English speaking countries are valid readers for articles about Euro countries (i.e. why Australians and not Japanese? ) Can this be customized further? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 03:41, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * It can be. How many currencies do we want to include? And what basis would we use for selecting currencies? XE.com shows euro exchange rates in order of "popularity" (which they don't define): USD, GBP, Swiss francs, CAD, AUD, Indian rupees, Hungarian forint, Thai baht, Danish kroner. Do we have metrics on where WV readers come from? Ground Zero (talk) 03:50, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Well we do have some metrics around where WV readers come from, but I would suggest (and just my opinion, not anything written down in policy) that the currencies would be the most applicable for each destination. For example visitors to South Korea would be most interested in USD, Japanese Yen and Chinese RMB. You can of course exchange other currencies, but those are the ones people and shops would most likely work in. I would even say that different Eurozone countries have different set of commonly traded currencies (i..e Spain would be more likely to use different foreign currencies to Latvia.) --Andrewssi2 (talk) 04:04, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I have created (with Ryan's help) two different templates.
 * 1) I have applied Template:exchange rates to all countries on the North and South American continents and the major islands of the Caribbean. For the most part, I have added only USD, EUR and GBP. For countries that attract a lot of Canadian tourists (Mexico, Cuba), I have added CAD. Anyone can add or remove currencies on a country-by-country basis if they want.
 * 2) I have applied the Template:exchange rate euros to most members of the eurozone, providing USD, GBP, CAD and AUD. I don't have strong views on the inclusion of CAD and AUD in this template. They could be removed easily.
 * The currencies for Template:exchange rates can be selected for each country it is being applied to, while the euros one has the same set of currencies for all countries it is applied to. There are advantages and disadvantages for each approach.
 * We know that exchange rates aren't being updated very often where they are included in text. Right now, WV is showing a lot of out of date exchange rates: Russia - 2014, Serbia - May 2014, China - June 2014, Turkey - March 2016, The euros template will allow exchange rates to be updated in 25 different country articles in one go. (It could also be applied to the articles for French overseas territories that use the euro.) If we use custom templates for each of those 25 countries, they won't be updated as often, and it will take a lot more work. We would also want to set some fairly concrete guidance for editors - including me - about which currencies to include in which countries. An alternative would be to use the euros template for a core set of currencies, and encourage editors to add other local currencies in the text outside the template. Ground Zero (talk) 11:20, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

I have done South Korea and Mongolia showing exchange rates for Chinese yuan, Belarus showing Russian roubles, and Thailand showing Australian $. For Belarus, I used an infobox instead of the template because it its unique circumstances. Editors can add other currencies as they see fit. Ground Zero (talk) 21:37, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Adding other currencies
Here is another approach for adding currencies that may be relevant to a particular country beyond those listed in the template. Adding an infobox with the additional currencies immediately after the template produces a pretty good result. It allows use to keep the ease of updating the main euro template, while providing flexibility on a country-by-country basis. It would look like this:

Ground Zero (talk) 15:00, 12 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I think it would be much better to keep the currencies in the template. Eventually we should have something like a centralized exchange rate table, so updating exchange rates in the table would update it in all instances of the template, but that won't work if data is split out into plain text like in the above example.  If the goal is to show the exchange rate to euros but to have a customizable list of currencies, I think a better solution would be to pass that currency list to the template and have it figure out what to display - something like   -- Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 15:17, 12 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm trying to find a compromise as you outline. If there is a way to do that in the template, that would be great. I still view this as an interim solution until we get to a centralized currency table. Ground Zero (talk) 15:40, 12 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Can you clarify what compromise you're trying to address? Is the problem just trying to use the same "Euros" template to display different currencies for different countries? If so that's fairly easy to do, but I'd like to understand what problem needs solving. -- Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 15:43, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's it. Right now, it is easy to update because it means updating only three currencies which then appear in the articles of all 21 countries (when the template is fully rolled out). I want to avoid having to update each of the 21 countries individually because we've chosen to use different currencies, as would be the case if I had just used Template:exchange rates for each country. To be honest, I'm okay with the template as it is. I don't sense that the people who want variability are going to do anything with it if it is made available. However, if we're building something new, it does make sense to make it as robust as possible, and to plan for the glorious day when it can me centralized or even automated. If you are able to make it work, I would be grateful. Ground Zero (talk) 16:09, 12 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I'll take a look and try to add some additional flexibility. Between work and travel it may take a couple of days before I get a chance to investigate, but please ping me with a reminder if it doesn't get done by early next week. -- Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 16:21, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Will do. Many thanks. Ground Zero (talk) 16:27, 12 January 2017 (UTC)


 * The implementation is messier than I'd like, but you can now optionally include a "currencies" parameter that will list the currencies to include. If this parameter is left out then it will default to "USD,GBP,AUD,CAD". I'll try to get this cleaned up at some point so that it's not such a pain to edit the template and add additional exchange rates. -- Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 18:07, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, as they say, nothing lasts longer than a provisional solution that does the job. I should know, I am a citizen of a country that has had a "provisional" constitution longer than all the "non-provisional" ones combined. Thanks for the fix and if there is a better way to do this we can cross that bridge when we get to it. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:29, 15 January 2017 (UTC)+
 * Thanks, Ryan, It looks great. Ground Zero (talk) 21:38, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Should this template be used in e.g. Baltic States?
I cannot currently think of another of our sub-regions of Europe where all members use the Euro, but is this template only to be limited to country articles and the article on Europe itself? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:26, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I have only used it in county articles so far, but would like to use it in articles on ovetseas territories that use the euro (French Guiana, St. Pierre and Miquelon, etc.) I have stopped applying it to articles because Ryan is going to take a look next week at introducing the option to use different currencies for different countries. I'd rather wait to see if that is possible before continuing to put it in articles. But at some point, yes, the Baltic republics are on the to-do list individually. I see no harm in putting on the Europe and Baltic States articles when it is settled. Ground Zero (talk) 20:05, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that makes sense. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:24, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Extension to overseas territories and dependencies
I propose this change (addition in bold) to the template documentation:
 * "It should only be used in country articles for countries and overseas territories and dependencies (e.g., French Guiana, Reunion, Martinique) that use the euro as their national currency, and should be placed in the "Buy" section of the article."

I think we do not want to have exchange rates in articles for sub-national jurisdictions generally, because we can assume that people will start their reading at the country article, and work their way down. But this will like not be the case for overseas territories and dependencies. Comments? Ground Zero (talk) 22:25, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I think that makes sense, especially as we usually treat them in the hierarchy as if they were countries. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:47, 15 January 2017 (UTC)