Talk:Yongding County

Guide?
I just changed the tag on this article from outline to usable. It seems to me it is close to guide, but I do not know the area well so I cannot really judge. Other opinions?

If you think it is not at guide yet, please either add what you think it needs or make suggestions here. Pashley (talk) 20:14, 30 April 2013 (UTC)


 * A year has gone by without much change in the article. I'd like to bump it to Guide & nominate it as an OtBP destination. Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 19:17, 3 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I never even heard of this place before, but it looks pretty interesting, so I can only encourage you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:30, 3 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I have a few suggestions. It would be good to have coordinates for the sites and a dynamic map. The Eat and Sleep sections could also have a few more listings. On the other hand, if restaurants and accommodation are integral parts of the sites themselves, they probably don't need to be listed separately. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:49, 3 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Good suggestions, but I've done about all I can. I lived in the province, but this is the one major tourist attraction there I did not get to. It is also almost the only article in the province that I did not start; most of it was done by User:(WT-en) Pinkfluffybrick. I've done some editing recently, but am limited by not actually knowing the area. Pashley (talk) 20:38, 3 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I've done a bit more editing & User:Danapit added a banner. I've just bumped it to Guide & am about nominate it as an OtBP destination. Comment & contributions still needed, though. Pashley (talk) 19:13, 5 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Pashley, in my opinion it is guide guide status. I enjoyed reading it. I am missing a map (perhaps a dynamic map?) or at least markers for the individual sites, I'll see if I can find some info in the coming days - never heard of this interesting place before. I would be happy to see the article as OtBP. Danapit (talk) 19:16, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

help needed
Yongding County became a distinct of Longyan, Fujian, China since December 2014 (see Yongding District, Longyan), but the article is not update. please update it.--122.90.102.23 04:38, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You know about this, so why don't you please update it accurately? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:52, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Ikan: it would involve renaming the article, which an IP-only editor can't do. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:00, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see. In that case, sorry for asking you to do something you can't do, 122.90.102.23. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:46, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Name?
This has just been moved from Yongding County to Yongding District, Longyan. The same move was made on WP back in December and at WT on Jan 15. I suspect that this was mistake and both moves should be reverted, but I'm not certain so I'll start a discussion instead.

I do not know the Chinese terms but the one usually translated as "district" refers to urban areas while "county" is used for more rural areas. e.g. Shanghai shows 15 districts and one county. Quanzhou has several of each & so on. Calling Yongding a district does not fit the pattern & I cannot read Chinese to see what terms they use.

Search shows that NY Times, China Highlights Trip Advisor and others use "county". Google gives 57,000-odd hits for "Yongding county", 24,00-odd for "Yongding district".

What was the reason for the change? Has Yongding been made a district instead of a county?

Is there a problem with Longyan City vs Longyan Prefecture? Which is Yongding part of? This sort of ambiguity is pervasive in China and does not seem to bother Chinese at all, but it may confuse foreigners. See Talk:Fuzhou for one discussion & links to others. In this case, I do not think we have a problem, but it seemed worth mentioning. Pashley (talk) 13:17, 27 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I do not know that answer to your question, but since "Yongding District, Longyan" doesn't fit with our naming conventions anyway, I'm going to go ahead and change this again. If the discussion leads us to rename it, that's fine, but if that's necessary, it'll use parentheses instead of this comma separator. The person who changed moved it first from "Yongding County" to "Yongding", and then to "Yongding District, Longyan". I will change it back to "Yongding County", since that is how the links to it are worded. Texugo (talk) 10:14, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, Yongding has been made a district instead of a county. See http://fujian.chinadaily.com.cn/longyan/2014-12/31/content_19210685.htm. Nurg (talk) 07:21, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Should we change the name of the article to "Yongding District"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:52, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Plural of "tulou"
Chinese does not mark nouns for singular/plural; it is always just tulou whether there's just one or 5000 of them. I'm inclined to follow this usage in English and notice that the UNESCO citation does that.

Our article, however, has many instances of "tulous", adding the English plural marker to the Chinese word. This strikes me as odd & I want to remove the 's' in all of them. However, others may feel that not marking the word as plural when it is would be wrong, so I am asking here first. Pashley (talk) 19:12, 31 May 2017 (UTC)


 * There are English words such as 'sheep' and 'aircraft' that do not take the 's' plural ending.
 * Fujian Tulou uses both & is inconsistent. The article starts with "The Fujian tulou ... are..." but sometimes uses "tulous" as well.
 * A Google fight finds 660K hits for tulou and 37k for tulous. Pashley (talk) 01:10, 1 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Is "tulou" an English word? Chinese words are the same in the singular and plural. "You yige ren" is "There is one person"; "You sange ren" is "There are three people": The word "ren" hasn't changed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:12, 1 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Not a Mandarin expert by any means, but having lived there I would support just using 'tulou' for singular and plural. I don't see any benefit in adapting that word (or any other) with a English plural style. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 01:22, 1 June 2017 (UTC)


 * We seem to have a consensus, so I have done the edits. ✅ Pashley (talk) 01:40, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Yongding County vs Nanjing County vs Fujian Tulou in general
I've updated the page quite a lot recently, but there's something I don't like about the idea of using this county article: The largest and most important clusters of tulou are not only in Yongding, but also in Nanjing county (which is right next to Yongding). It would be correct to place the clusters in the respective county articles, but that would result in information duplication and make it harder to find relevant information. Currently, all the Nanjing county tulou are also placed in Yongding, which is wrong. How about creating a separate article for Fujian Tulou that includes all the relevant traveler information for the major tulou clusters in both Yongding and Nanjing, and then linking this article from the county pages? Then the county pages could also be filled with other information (e.g. travel information for Yongding city, should anybody ever travel there). Thoughts? Lennartbj (talk) 11:10, 28 January 2019 (UTC)


 * This article was created back in 2009 & at that time covered only the one county. There is a redirect to it at Hakka Tulou.
 * I think you are right; it needs some reorganisation. Not sure if it would be better to create "Fujian Tulou" or turn "Hakka Tulou" into the main article. Pashley (talk) 12:12, 28 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Once that is sorted out and perhaps some other edits done, I think the Tulou article might be a fine nominee as an "off the beaten path" feature article. See above & discussion of a previous, failed, nomination at Destination_of_the_month_candidates/Slush_pile. Pashley (talk) 12:31, 28 January 2019 (UTC)


 * I would move this to Hakka Tulou & make both county articles redirects to that. Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 01:52, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * If the Fujian Tulou article were renamed Hakka Tulou, then presumably the Guangdong tulou could go there as well. --STW932 (talk) 09:25, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

All information is now in Fujian Tulou
Before, all information regarding Fujian Tulou was kept in the Yongding County article, with redirects from articles such as Hakka Tulou and Nanjing County. Since not all tulou are located in Yongding, keeping the information correct would have required a duplication into the Nanjing County article and possible confusion for travelers. Thus, I created a new article called Fujian Tulou (following the offical name chosen by Wikipedia and UNESCO instead of Hakka Tulou), de-cluttered the county articles for Yongding and Nanjing, and updated redirects/links. Lennartbj (talk) 02:47, 30 January 2019 (UTC)


 * I'd say both county articles should now become redirects. Add a bit of text in the main article saying the tulou are spread over two counties & naming them in bold so anyone redirected can easily tell why he or she is here. Pashley (talk) 03:52, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The only problem I see with doing that is that you would be left with no obvious place to put listings that belong to one of the two counties but have nothing to do with the tulous (e.g. Huboliao National Nature Reserve in Nanjing County or Dragon Lake Water Conservation Park in Yongding District). --STW932 (talk) 09:08, 31 January 2019 (UTC)