Talk:Urdu phrasebook

This article seems to be a subset of the Hindi-Urdu phrasebook that it previously was directed to. Should it still redirect to the Hindi-Urdu phrasebook? -- (WT-en) Huttite 08:49, 10 Dec 2005 (EST)
 * No. I think that having a joint phrasebook was a bad idea in the first place. Though the languages are almost the same, you'll mostly need one of the two, not both. The Hindi phrasebook should be created and the joint phrasebook should be a made a disambiguator.--(WT-en) Ravikiran 09:41, 10 Dec 2005 (EST)

Incomplete
This phrasebook is still incomplete, because there are no pronunciations for most phrases yet. (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:32, 20 Dec 2005 (EST)

This is crap.. maybe i'm not familiar with the format for these things but i see a lot of phrases that are "transliterated" and the Urdu script reads something completely different.. its all over the site.. I myself am marginally familiar with the language but it seems that this page favors extreme Persian and Arabic vocabulary where more the more common usage seems to be the word that is held in common with Hindi. an example is "surkh" and "qarmaz" for "red", but no "laal". i'm no expert, but being this is a travel phrasebook i think "laal" would be more understood and common. Inconsistency example: under the "Problems" heading .. it says "Mujhe chor do" but the script to the right says.. something else. When i said this is "crap" i mean its a mess, but it will have to do until someone dedicated and knowledgeable can re-edit this thing, and that may take a while. no offense, its a good effort already, but i see there may be some problems with the attempt in separating the Hindi and Urdu travel things.. the vocabulary favor extremes in vocabulary origin, if that makes any sense.

sorry, the above long comment is mine. :)

Whoever desinged this page doesn't know very much about Urdu. If you don't know Urdu, please don't write an Urdu phrasebook. You would be better off writing a Persian one.


 * Please plunge forward and fix it then! The journey of a thousand miles begins with one click. (WT-en) Jpatokal 19:52, 5 October 2006 (EDT)

Updates
I agree that the phrase book is not useful and is wrong. The biggest thing is that many of the English words are now commonly used in Urdu and you do not need to know the real Urdu translation. As a fact the original Urdu translation might not even know to Native speakers as well. An example of this is "minute". I have never in my life heard the original urdu word "daqeeqa" used for it. Its always minute in Urdu as well as English conversations. I have started re-doing it. Please check the Durations section. http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Urdu_phrasebook#Duration_.28.D9.85.D8.AF.D8.AA.29 (WT-en) Webkami 09:14, 12 February 2007 (EST)

Cleaned Up
I have cleaned up major sections, from start to 2.6.2 If anybody interested in cleaning up can cleanup from section 2.7 onwards..... (WT-en) Webkami 11:13, 12 February 2007 (EST)

Now all sections needing cleanup are marked with a notice. (WT-en) Webkami 11:45, 12 February 2007 (EST)


 * Hey there, good work! I'm removing the links section from the bottom since it's against our external links policy, and also the notices on the page about which requires cleanup, we don't really do that the way they do on Wikipedia... the best thing to do is create a "TO DO" section on this talk page (which I've done below) and list what needs doing... Thanks for the nice cleanup, looking forward to more! (WT-en) - Cacahuate 14:16, 12 February 2007 (EST)

TO DO
The following sections need cleanup and translation into Urdu. Some text used there comes from the Persian phrasebook:
 * Lodging
 * Money
 * Eating
 * Shopping
 * Driving
 * Authority

(WT-en) - Cacahuate 14:16, 12 February 2007 (EST)

Ex links
For reference, here's the external links I removed from the page:


 * http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/other/guide/urdu/steps.shtml
 * http://www.phrasebase.com/learn/urdu.php
 * http://www.urduword.com/

(WT-en) - Cacahuate 14:16, 12 February 2007 (EST)

Thanks
Thanks for your words and help. Sorry didnt realise about the external link and message box policy. Will keep in mind.... (WT-en) Webkami 03:58, 13 February 2007 (EST)

Lodging Done
Please note that I have tried my best to help create a phrasebook that will be usefull. One should note that this is not a dictionary/literature and we do not have to translate everything word by word. Thing is that some English words are in use in Urdu and it is much easier to speak this گلابی اردو (Pink Urdu: a term used for Urdu that is not pure and includes many English words). Hope that helps. (WT-en) Webkami 04:42, 13 February 2007 (EST)

thanks much
nice work, guy

Potemkin pronunciation guide
Despite the vast quantity of information in this section, there actually is no pronunciation guide. Transliteration is necessary, but its even more necessary to know what those transliterations sound like. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:14, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

Star phrasebook
I would like to see this phrasebook at star level so please let me know of any comments and suggestions you have for improving this phrasebook. --Saqib (talk) 15:57, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Phrasebook status: "The phrasebook template is complete and correct. It has a map identifying places where this language is officially recognized and/or commonly spoken. The format either matches the manual of style exactly or is the exception that proves the rule." Complete and correct? I guess that's up to you because I don't think any other Voyager knows any Urdu. Map? Do you know any good map maker? :). Manual of Style? I don't see any major errors.
 * One thing to do: at Writing time and date it says "Give some examples how to write clock times and dates if it differs from English". If there are special ways of writing time and date that visitors may encounter in timetables etc., please add them. If not, remove the section.
 * Otherwise, usually I've added a 6-8 photos to phrasebooks I've edited because large white areas are just boring. And a banner would also be good to have. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:21, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay. Thanks for comment YPSI. --Saqib (talk) 21:33, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * YPSI. How can I make sure that the translations in Roman Urdu can be pronounced correctly by someone who don't knows Urdu language? Can you try a few sentence please and let me know if you found difficulty in pronunciation. --Saqib (talk) 20:24, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmm...hard to say. One thing I would come to think of is that the stress maybe should be marked with capital letters if stress is something that is important when speaking Urdu (example).
 * It would maybe be good to have a native English speaker to have a look at the pronunciations, maybe Pashley. I need to concentrate a bit extra to think "via" English. ϒpsilon (talk) 04:57, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay. I hope Pashley and some other editors will get involve. I'll also invite some Pakistani Wikipedians too. Btw, I've brought together Urdu alphabets and consonants at once place. Hope the long table on right will be easy to understand and looks not too complex. --Saqib (talk) 14:19, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Hindi & Urdu
I rewrote that paragraph & my work needs checking.

Do we need a visual? The same phrase in Urdu & Hindi script plus a romanisation and perhaps IPA or translation? Pashley (talk) 01:54, 2 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Do we have the organisation right?
 * At one point there was a single Hindi-Urdu phrasebook. I'd say that was definitely a mistake since the two are written entirely differently so trying to deal with both in one place would be silly. Also, some might find it politically offensive.
 * Currently Hindustani redirects to Hindi. Should it be a disambig instead, explaining that "Hindustani" is a mostly obsolete term that includes both Hindi & Urdu? Pashley (talk) 02:06, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Latter you said writing system of Hindi and Urdu are different so trying to deal with both in one place would be silly but aforesaid "Do we need a visual? The same phrase in Urdu & Hindi script…". what it is? And yes let's make Hindustani a disambiguation page. Btw, I need you help and advice regarding romanisation pronunciation about which I talked above. --Saqib (talk) 13:09, 2 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I created a disambig page for Hindustani. The visual might be useful there, but is not needed either here or in the Hindi article. Pashley (talk) 14:18, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Formality levels
There is an old joke that English was invented so Norman soldiers could chat up Saxon barmaids. Certainly there was a time when the nobles spoke French, church & scholars used Latin, and the common people spoke Anglo-Saxon. In modern English you get informal "I broke my arm" from A-S but a doctor's "He fractured his tibia" uses Latin-derived names.

It looks as though Urdu might have something similar: court Persian, religious Arabic & something very close to Hindi for the commoners. Do we need more explanation of this? Which forms does the phrasebook use? Certainly in a general English course or phrasebook, one would want "broke" (despite the odd grammar from A-S) rather than the formal "fracture". Is there a similar concern for Urdu? Have we done it right? Pashley (talk)
 * Good point! I've used simple vocabulary here as less formalised Urdu is now a days widely used along with plenty of English vocabulary, however as for politeness, Urdu reflect a three to four tiered system of politeness and I've mostly used "Polite and formal tiered system of politeness" in this phrasebook. During your visit to South Asia, you must heard Paani which means "water". It is less formalised Urdu and widely used whereas formal word for "water" is Aab but it is least used and hardly known to majority of Urdu speakers. --Saqib (talk) 14:51, 2 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think every traveller learns nimbu pani (lime water), but we also get "Punjab" explained as "five rivers". Pashley (talk) 14:57, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, nimbu pani in India or limbu paani in Pakistan for Lemonade however the formal word for Lemonade in Urdu is Sa-kan-jee but it is less known among commoners. Yes, panj is a Paunjabi-language word means "Five" and ab means "water" as I said above (aab) so "Punjab" becomes "five water" or "five river" due to fact five rivers run through Punjab region. --Saqib (talk) 15:07, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Table use of "alphabets"
We currently have a table with "Urdu alphabets" as the title and "alphabets" as a column title. That needs to change.

An alphabet is the whole set; for example we can say Urdu uses the Arabic alphabet or the English alphabet is 'abcdef...xyz'. You only get "alphabets" when there are multiple sets.

The individual parts can be called letters, characters, symbols or glyphs. I am not sure which is correct here; I'd use "glyphs", but I'm guessing. Pashley (talk) 14:48, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll leave that part up-to you so please feel free to change it. Also please feel free to change the titles of columns. --Saqib (talk) 14:54, 2 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I made some changes, but I am not absolutely certain my usage is correct. Others please check. Pashley (talk) 15:15, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * As I've wrote above, I brought together Urdu letters and consonants at once place in that table. Hope the long table is easy to understand and looks not too complex. Right? And don't you think we should mention "consonants" as well somewhere in the title of the table? --Saqib (talk) 15:16, 2 May 2014 (UTC)


 * We could title that one "Urdu consonants", or just "Consonants" since vowels are in a different table. But is alif a consonant? Does it need a separate explanation outside both tables? Its own table? Pashley (talk) 15:23, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Alif is consonant. Why you think its need a separate explanation outside both tables? --Saqib (talk) 15:33, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Btw, "English Name" column can be removed as it seems not very useful, to make some space. --Saqib (talk) 16:18, 2 May 2014 (UTC)