Talk:Sydney/Eastern suburbs

Districts
There is a problem with the current hierarchy of this article. The traveler is going to see the Eastern Suburbs as one article and be confused because all the listings cover a large area. They may not notice the distinct articles below.

I suggest making a region with the districts made clear:


 * Sydney/Maroubra
 * Sydney/Watsons Bay - (will need to be created)
 * Sydney/Coogee
 * Sydney/Bondi

Question is how to manage the 'inner city' areas from Kings Cross to Centennial Park. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 20:33, 26 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Another way to resolve this is to just merge all the articles, such as I have done with Sydney/Lower_North_Shore. I know Bondi is an iconic destination, but to be fair there isn't that much to do there other than lie on the beach and swim. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:13, 26 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm also thinking much of the current information in the sub-articles could be placed into a travel topic such as Beaches of Sydney. This would also resolve the messy situation with the Northern beaches article as well. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:21, 26 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Working on an example here: User:Andrewssi2/Sydney Beaches --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:02, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

It was difficult to come up with a good strategy for Eastern Suburbs. Basically there are so many and it doesn't make sense to create an article for each.

I think this can be fixed by creating three articles based on the suburb division of the Eastern suburbs on Wikipedia:

Eastern_Suburbs_(Sydney)


 * Sydney/Eastern_Suburbs/North
 * Sydney/Eastern_Suburbs/South - (merge and redirect Sydney/Bondi and Sydney/Coogee here
 * Sydney/Eastern_Suburbs/West

--Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:16, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Ah just noticed this. That's a fair division though I can't say much for the names. I think the west parts of Eastern Suburbs is covered in Sydney/City East, but it's a whole different mess also.
 * Probably Sydney/Darling Point-Watsons Bay - all the harbourside areas
 * Sydney/Bondi-Coogee (this would also need to hold Kensington to Kingsford, then we could merge in Sydney/Clovelly & Sydney/Bronte too)
 * And finally Sydney/Maroubra-La Perouse (Sydney/Maroubra, Eastgardens, Pagewood etc)
 * Technically Sydney/Eastern_Suburbs/South should cover Bondi all the way to La Perouse. 'Bondi to La Perouse' would be more correct than 'Bondi-La Perouse' in that case. -- torty3 (talk) 08:41, 14 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Many thanks for the input! I feel now that organizing Sydney is getting just too big a job, and actually I don't really want to create an additional level of structure that I was formally proposing.
 * That said, it would be great if we could re-work Bondi into an article that covered everywhere from Bondi to La Perouse in the manner you describe. Andrewssi2 (talk) 08:48, 14 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Yeah, most tourist guidebooks would refer to 'Bondi and the Eastern Suburbs' only, with emphasis on Bondi Beach, though in this case we got stuck on that mindset, and Eastern Suburbs grew too much and overshadowed everything. Splitting it into harbourside and oceanside would help a lot. Might need to check whether there is accommodation in the area as well. I'm not sure if a 'Bondi to La Perouse' article will be unwieldy later, but still better than what Eastern Suburbs is now. Organising Sydney districts is definitely too big a job for one person, and I lost a lot of steam while attempting that :) I think I did suggest putting all of southern Sydney in one district before, though it does look a little better now albeit still geared more towards long-term visitors. -- torty3 (talk) 09:16, 14 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes! I thought my time better spent on the other regions of NSW, which I'm now mostly happy with. Southern Sydney is getting better now.. actually I have neglected that part of the city even though I live here. Sydney/Macarthur would be a good next target. Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:04, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Banner
I don't know why, but the proposed gives me an Eastern suburbs vibe for some reason. Perhaps could be the compact houses plus the waves? -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 11:30, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Banner 1 has less visual appeal than Banner 0. Ground Zero (talk) 14:14, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Separate Eastern Suburbs & South-Eastern Suburbs Page
The page is getting quite cluttered. Perhaps a thought would be to create a Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs made up of the districts Randwick-Coogee, Maroubra-Matraville and Botany-Eastgardens. This page can be kept for Woollahra-Double Bay, Waverley-Bondi and The Centennial Parklands. Just a thought to spread things out a bit, at the end of the day no one is going to visit Watsons Bay and La Perouse in one day. The section regarding Randwick Hospital would have to remain on both pages. Any thoughts? 203.49.228.129 00:56, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Are you ? If so, I will abide by my self-imposed interaction ban. -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 12:56, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not Mapper2000. What are your thoughts on the proposal SHB2000? 203.49.228.129 01:10, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, good to know. I made User:SHB2000/ES a while back – Randwick can be renamed to southeastern suburbs, but it's divided in a way so Sydney/Bondi doesn't stand out as a standalone sub-district article (as it does now). I'm not that familiar with the Woollahra, but I believe there should be enough content to warrant a separate article. This is all while this article remains as its own "huge-city" article (something like Brooklyn having districts, but it's also under NYC, if you got what I meant). SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 01:24, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok. I think I understand. My initial thought is to use the Eastern Sydney District map on both pages but The Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs will only display travel information within the Randwick-Coogee, Maroubra-Matraville and Botany-Eastgardens districts while everything within Woollahra-Double Bay, Waverley-Bondi and Centennial Parklands Districts will still remain on this page.
 * Or just for clarity are you suggesting we keep the current eastern suburbs article with all the information it currently has including the six districts and only copy the information regarding Randwick-Coogee, Maroubra-Matraville and Botany-Eastgardens onto the south-eastern page which would then mean I wouldn't be deleting any information from the eastern suburbs page as it is now. Is that how you'd prefer it? 203.49.228.129 04:19, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * For clarity: all the listings on this page will be moved to the relevant subpages; this page is then turned into an "overview" article kind of like our region articles (e.g. Mid-North Coast). SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 04:54, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand what you mean. Perhaps this eastern suburbs page can be kept with only the relevant information about Woollahra-Double Bay, Waverley-Bondi and Centennial Parklands Districts and everything regarding south-eastern suburbs is just cut from this page and pasted into the new south-eastern page. and then perhaps an 'overview' article could be created called 'Eastern Sydney'. I don't mind how you'd like to do it just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing when i start putting information onto the south-eastern suburbs page. 203.49.228.129 05:08, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure thing. ( Also regarding the draft below, I'd recommend placing it under a userspace draft to avoid cluttering this page – but since you're an anon, feel free to do so on User:SHB2000/Eastern suburbs, User:SHB2000/Southeastern suburbs, etc. ) -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 07:54, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I've created this account if it's easier. I'll create the drafts for you. Thank you for being helpful. User:Voyage2023/Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs User:Voyage2023/Sydney/Eastern Suburbs Voyage2023 (talk) 08:37, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know why but I keep getting blocked from creating the south-eastern suburbs page under 'cannabis/cbd spam' Voyage2023 (talk) 08:41, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It's a global abuse filter – I can't do anything about that since I'm not an abuse filter helper/maintainer, but try replacing "CBD" with "downtown" (I'll come and change them onwards later using a command F search). You're not the only one who's fallen victim to this filter, though. SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 09:12, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * , any other ideas on bypassing the filter? SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 09:15, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * haha yeah I realised it was recognising Sydney CBD as Cannabis/CBD. Silly me. Thank you. Voyage2023 (talk) 09:15, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it sucks because "CBD" means more than just cannabidiol in many parts of the world. SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 09:18, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I've created User:Voyage2023/Sydney/Eastern Suburbs if you'd like to look over the draft of what this eastern suburbs page will look like now that Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs exists. If you'd be willing to make the change so that it's no longer so crowded. I cannot edit it myself as the site is recognising me removing information and blocking me from doing so. Thank you for your help regarding all of this. I could see there were previous discussions on how to get the eastern suburbs page to become less crowded. Voyage2023 (talk) 09:39, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Mostly looks good to me – but how will Sydney/Bondi be integrated? (I'm not familiar with this area outside the Randwick/Centennial Park area). As for the previous discussions, from what I can tell, has been inactive for years, but  still periodically checks in (though it's been over a year since they have). --  SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 11:11, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I can integrate the information on the Bondi page into the draft of the new Eastern Suburbs page as part of the Waverley District. I will say however that perhaps it's a good idea to keep the Bondi Beach page as a stand alone as it's the most famous beach in Sydney. It's your call, whatever you think is best. Voyage2023 (talk) 12:58, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The South Eastern Suburbs page at Wikipedia was deleted for being original research and for not being well supported by references. An anonymous IP was spamming Wikipedia for months and they ended up being temporarily banned. it looks like the same anonymous IP is the person who created the South Eastern Suburbs page here, and later registered the Voyage2023 account. I believe the South Eastern Suburbs page here should be deleted (for the same reasons that it was deleted on Wikipedia) and the content merged back into the Eastern Suburbs page. Daceyvillain (talk) 04:45, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

South-Eastern Suburbs Page Concept
This is the concept however it won't allow me to publish the article as I'm not an administrator:

The South-Eastern Suburbs of Sydney are located south-east of Sydney CBD at the southern end of Eastern Sydney starting south of The Centennial Parklands with Kensington, Randwick and Clovelly in the north down to Botany Bay in the south. It is a very popular area for visitors to Sydney, including Coogee Beach, Maroubra Beach and La Perouse. It is well-served by public transport and located on the eastern side of Botany Bay and The M1 Eastern Distributor. For Sydney's Eastern Suburbs see here.

Understand


The South-Eastern Suburbs enjoys extensive frontages of Botany Bay, the Ocean beaches and extensive towering sandstone clifftops. This part of Sydney has a choice of over 5 different beaches. Sydney's south-eastern suburbs connect through to the City Centre through the City east precinct south-east towards Randwick, Coogee, Kensington, Kingsford, Maroubra and La Perouse connected primarily through Anzac Parade.

Oceanside Areas
Randwick City Council
 * Clovelly Beach
 * Coogee Beach
 * Maroubra Beach
 * Malabar Beach
 * Little Bay Beach

Botany Bay
The south-eastern suburbs lines the eastern side of Botany Bay with Port Botany, Philip Bay and La Perouse.

Districts
Eastern Sydney overall is a relatively small metropolitan area of Sydney compared to its counterparts of Northern, Western and Southern but still has much to offer with some of Sydney’s most famous and beautiful spots.

Eastern Sydney
Eastern Sydney is comprised of The Eastern Suburbs and The South-Eastern Suburbs stretching from Watsons Bay down to La Perouse including famous harbourside locations, coastal beaches and lookouts on the eastern shore of Botany Bay. Sydney's South-Eastern Suburbs are made up of Randwick-Coogee, Maroubra-Matraville and Botany-Eastgardens.

By Bus

 * Sydney Buses runs extensive services throughout the South-Eastern Suburbs.  Most originate from Circular Quay in the city, however some originate at Railway Square near Central Station.

There are three main bus routes from the city at Circular Quay that run all day, every day. They are:
 * 373 - To Coogee Beach via Taylor Square, Moore Park and Randwick Junction
 * 394/L94 - To La Perouse via Taylor Square, Moore Park and Maroubra Junction

There are also lots of local services to Shopping Malls - Eastgardens being the largest. There are also other city bound services from most beaches and major areas as well as cross city Metrobuses which are rapid transit style buses that run every 15 mins from 7am - 7pm daily.
 * M10 Maroubra Junction To Leichardt
 * M20 Botany To Gore Hill
 * M50 Coogee To Drummoyne

There is also a beach connect service during summer on weekends and runs From Bondi Beach at the Tour Buses to Coogee Beach via Bronte number 362 and runs from 10am to 6pm

By Light Rail (Tram)
The South-Eastern Suburbs are connected via The Sydney CBD and South East Light Rail which takes residents of Randwick, Kingsford and Kensington to Circular Quay via Moore Park, Surry Hills and George Street in The Sydney CBD

By Car
Sydney's South-Eastern Suburbs are very accessible by car with lots of major roadways. For The South-Eastern Suburbs major roads include Anzac Parade and The M1 Eastern Distributor which runs from the city past the start of Anzac Parade down to The Sydney Airport before becoming The M5 South West Distributer. Traffic can sometimes be a struggle but is generally alright and parking can be a competition that never let's you win at the beaches in summer.

Ocean beaches
Swim, surf, walk or explore the south-eastern suburbs beaches.

From North to South

Randwick City Council


 * Clovelly Beach. Clovelly is a beach like no other in the area.  If you are looking for a safe, wave free swim, then Clovelly is for you, but be prepared to swap the natural beauty of Sydney's other beaches for a beach that resembles a cement basketball court. There is a long bay, a breakwater, and calm swimming.  It is a great location for walking, with headland walks heading north and south.  The walk north to Waverley Cemetery popular and spectacular. The kiosk is now a upmarket cafe, so a good place to pack a picnic for.  Parking can be difficult, at peak times, but it is usually possible to find a spot somewhere.  Public transport access is by bus.  If you are not satisfied with Clovelly's man-made feel, follow the path south to Gordon's Bay where you will find an astonishing deep bay, popular with backpackers and the nimble of foot (the water is best accessed by climbing over rocks.


 * Coogee Beach. Very pretty and popular beach.  A little smaller than Bondi, but not a small beach, and it has a bit of a similar feel to it.  Nice for swimming and walking, with a rock pool at the southern end of the beach.  Plenty of facilities surrounding it, Coogee has pubs, restaurants and takeaway places.  Parking and car access can be difficult.  Public transport access is by bus  routes are to the City, Central, Eastgardens and Bondi Junction.


 * Maroubra Beach. Sydney largest south-eastern beach, with good facilities and great waves.  You will always find a spot on the sand at Maroubra, but gets crowded swimming between the flags.  Large parking lots, which do fill up summer weekends.  Probably a little less scenic than the beaches further north, as it lacks the cliff headlands, therefore probably not as good for walking.  A cafe and kiosk on the beach, open even during winter.  Public transport access is by bus.


 * Malabar Beach. Sheltered at the end of Long Bay, Malabar is not the beach for surfers.  It is a smaller, quieter beach, often not crowded at all.  It is not patrolled by lifeguards.  Parking is usually available.  Public transport access is by bus.


 * Little Bay and Congwong Beach. A beautiful, calm little bay (hence the name) surrounded by cliffs. Rather untouched, save for an amenities hut, this beach is accessed by traveling through old hospital grounds —Prince Henry Hospital— that have now been converted into retirement villages and upper class neighborhoods. There are a couple of shops located on Anzac Parade, which is a bout 10 minutes walk away from the beach. The beach is NOT dog friendly, good for snorkeling and kids, although this beach is not patrolled by lifeguards. Has a nice quiet atmosphere. Best accessed by car or any south-bound bus services running along Anzac Parade, such as the 392. Congwong is a calm beach nearby, save for the planes taking off overhead. There are several other beaches that are around La Perouse and the airport, but have little to no surf due to the calm waters of Botany Bay.

La Perouse and Kamay-Botany Bay
La Perouse in The South-Eastern Suburbs was the site of some of Australia's earliest European history. It is named after a French explorer, Jean François de Galaup de Lapérouse, who was commissioned by King Louis XVI of France to explore the Pacific. The La Perouse area has also been an Aboriginal reserve, a defence site and even a home for hundreds of homeless Sydneysiders during the Great Depression. Much of the area is now a national park, and there are cliffs, inlets, bays, and walking trails to explore. Visit on a summer Sunday, and you will see Sydney in full recreation mode, with boomerang throwers, kite fliers, beach goers, fishermen, walkers, and picnic blankets with fish and chips. You might even catch the snake man showing Australian native snakes, all for a dollar in the hat at the end of the show.


 * Frenchmans Beach at La Perouse. This is a swimming spot on Botany Bay. It is a fairly average beach, but has an interesting westerly outlook which allows you see the sun setting over the bay, which is very unusual in Sydney, where looking over the water usually means you are facing east. Accessible by car or bus.
 * La Perouse Congwong Bay Beach. Little Congwong Beach is an unofficial & secluded clothing optional beach located at La Perouse, which is reached only by walking through the Botany Bay national park. Little Congwong Beach has been used peacefully by naturists for more than 40 years. Make your way to La Perouse on Botany Bay and park in the car park just north of Bare Island. Walk down the steps to Congwong Beach then left across the rocks to Little Congwong Beach, the second bay. This beach is very popular on summer weekends. Little Congwong is small, and has been described as the most beautiful beach oasis in Sydney.
 * La Perouse Congwong Bay Beach. Little Congwong Beach is an unofficial & secluded clothing optional beach located at La Perouse, which is reached only by walking through the Botany Bay national park. Little Congwong Beach has been used peacefully by naturists for more than 40 years. Make your way to La Perouse on Botany Bay and park in the car park just north of Bare Island. Walk down the steps to Congwong Beach then left across the rocks to Little Congwong Beach, the second bay. This beach is very popular on summer weekends. Little Congwong is small, and has been described as the most beautiful beach oasis in Sydney.
 * La Perouse Congwong Bay Beach. Little Congwong Beach is an unofficial & secluded clothing optional beach located at La Perouse, which is reached only by walking through the Botany Bay national park. Little Congwong Beach has been used peacefully by naturists for more than 40 years. Make your way to La Perouse on Botany Bay and park in the car park just north of Bare Island. Walk down the steps to Congwong Beach then left across the rocks to Little Congwong Beach, the second bay. This beach is very popular on summer weekends. Little Congwong is small, and has been described as the most beautiful beach oasis in Sydney.

Do

 * Go to the beach. Pick any one of the iconic South-Eastern Suburbs beaches and enjoy the sand, surf and parade of Australian city beach culture.
 * Take a walk. Sydney's Great Coastal Walk - Barrenjoey to Royal National Park, this seven day walk traverses the great urban coastal walk of Sydney. The walk can be broken into distances and times of one’s own choosing and may be walked in either direction south from Palm Beach or north from Cronulla. There is no need to do the whole walk and a visitor can just access any part of the coastal walk they choose to experience either for a few metres or a few kilometres. For full details information and brochures see details for walks including Harbour Bridge to South Head & Clovelly and Clovelly to Cronulla. There are additional details available for Sydney Harbour coastline walks.
 * Coogee Bowling and Tennis Club - a popular place to play social tennis or an afternoon of bowling. The tennis club also has space to host parties.
 * Gordon's Bay - (Also has a local nickname, Thomo's, the origin of which appears to be unknown.) A small rocky inlet just north of Coogee Beach, accessed from the cliff walk, popular for snorkeling. There is an underwater snorkel trail there for the adventurous.
 * Randwick Rugby - Coogee is the location of the home ground of Randwick Rugby Union Club, one of the main teams in the Sydney rugby union football competition. Alternate weekends see Randwick and an opposing team battle it out on Coogee Oval, just over the road from the beach - a great way to spend a winter afternoon.
 * Randwick Rugby - Coogee is the location of the home ground of Randwick Rugby Union Club, one of the main teams in the Sydney rugby union football competition. Alternate weekends see Randwick and an opposing team battle it out on Coogee Oval, just over the road from the beach - a great way to spend a winter afternoon.

Commercial Centres

 * Randwick Junction. Major junction in Sydney's South-Eastern Suburbs connecting Coogee Beach and is the home of The Randwick City Council Administration and Town Hall. Main road is Belmore Road. Its major connection to the CBD is Alison Road.
 * Maroubra Junction. Major connection to Maroubra Beach, Sydney's largest south-eastern beach. Located around the intersection of Anzac Parade and Maroubra Road.

Shopping malls

 * Royal Randwick Shopping Centre. Shopping Centre in Randwick Junction on Belmore Road.
 * Pacific Square in Maroubra. Shopping centre located on the site of the previous 'Maroubra Mall'.
 * Southpoint in Hillsdale. Shopping centre located below the Hillsdale apartment complex called 'Southpoint'.
 * Westfield Eastgardens. Largest shopping centre in Sydney's South-Eastern Suburbs. Built on the site of the former Pagewood bus depot which was the largest shopping centre in Australia upon completion in 1987. The area around the centre became its own suburb which took on the name of the shopping centre 'Eastgardens'.

Eat

 * Burnie's at 48 Burnie Street. Fabulous breakfasts and a sublime single origin roasters coffee menu is organic and gluten free open 7 days a week for breakfast and lunch.
 * The Jilted Anchovy at 350 Clovelly Road does great pizzas.
 * The Jilted Anchovy at 350 Clovelly Road does great pizzas.

Drink

 * Around the beaches, there are many modern pubs, such as the Clovelley Hotel and Coogee Beach Palace, which serve food and alcohol, as well as having gaming facilities and live entertainment. Other large, well-renovated pubs sit a little further back from the beach, such as the Royal Hotel in Randwick, and the Doncaster Hotel in Kensington.
 * Cheaper drinks can be found at RSLs, which will always have bistros and gaming, as well as various other facilities - try Coogee RSL on Carr St.
 * Around the University of New South Wales, pubs and bars serve the student population - the campus bar serves cheap drinks, especially at Happy Hour (5-6PM, 5-7PM on Wednesday). The Regent Hotel in Kingsford is also a popular student haunt.
 * The Legion Club, with a balcony (with high glass) overlooking Coogee beach the Legion has long been the secret watering hole of Coogee locals. Cheap drinks and a relaxed atmosphere, midweek trivia and live music at weekends the legion is an attractive alternative to people of all ages.
 * The Legion Club, with a balcony (with high glass) overlooking Coogee beach the Legion has long been the secret watering hole of Coogee locals. Cheap drinks and a relaxed atmosphere, midweek trivia and live music at weekends the legion is an attractive alternative to people of all ages.
 * The Legion Club, with a balcony (with high glass) overlooking Coogee beach the Legion has long been the secret watering hole of Coogee locals. Cheap drinks and a relaxed atmosphere, midweek trivia and live music at weekends the legion is an attractive alternative to people of all ages.

Sleep
Hotels and hostels are available throughout the South-Eastern Suburbs. Coogee Beach is one of the main areas for backpacker and budget accommodation in Sydney.



Stay healthy
For a serious medical emergency you should call 000 from any phone for immediate attention of the emergency services.

The Prince of Wales Hospital is the major Public Hospital servicing the Eastern suburbs. It is on a large Randwick campus which also incorporates The Prince of Wales Private Hospital, The Royal Hospital for Women and Sydney Children’s Hospital with The University of New South Wales located on an adjoining campus.



Public hospital emergency departments are open 24 hours a day, including public holidays.

203.49.228.129 07:21, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Merge "South Eastern Suburbs" content back into the Eastern Suburbs page
Re: Sydney/Eastern suburbs vs Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs

The Eastern Suburbs is generally recognised (e.g. by government sources like the ABS) as stretching all the way south to La Perouse. And the "South Eastern Suburbs" are generally not a well recognised region - at best they are a subregion of the Eastern Suburbs.

There was a lengthy debate about this around April 2023 at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Suburbs_(Sydney). The resolution was that the "South Eastern Suburbs" page was considered original research and its content was merged back into the main Eastern Suburbs page. I propose that the same should be done here.

It is somewhat perplexing and eye raising that the South Eastern Suburbs page at Wikivoyage was created shortly after the debate at Wikipedia had ended...

cc @LibStar Daceyvillain (talk) 04:24, 24 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Note that at Wikivoyage, 203.49.228.129 aka Voyage2023 is the same anonymous IP who lost the debate at Wikipedia, and whose IP was temporarily banned from editing Wikipedia.
 * cc @SHB2000 Daceyvillain (talk) 04:29, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * There are lots more examples at Wikipedia, but are a few key examples of government maps which recognise the "Eastern Suburbs" as reaching La Perouse, and which don't recognise the "South Eastern Suburbs" at all
 * https://abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/118
 * https://www.seslhd.health.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/groups/PICH/Priority%20Populations/Eastern%20Suburbs_SESLHD_2016%20Census.pdf
 * https://www.randwick.nsw.gov.au/about-us/news/news-items/2016/march/a-new-eastern-sydney-council
 * For example, "Eastern Suburbs Memorial Park" is located at Port Botany at the very southern end of the Eastern Suburbs Daceyvillain (talk) 04:37, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * +1 as per my response on Talk:Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs. -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 05:45, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I have merged the South Eastern Suburbs content back into the Eastern Suburbs page. Could you take a look, and then delete the South Eastern Suburbs page?
 * Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs
 * Cheers Daceyvillain (talk) 22:40, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Added a redirect
 * https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Sydney/South-Eastern_Suburbs&redirect=no Daceyvillain (talk) 23:43, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for doing the merge! Unfortunately, I've been a bit busy with exams so could not get to doing so myself. As for the redirect, I would prefer to keep it purely for attribution purposes, as deleting the redirect would also delete the page history. Cheers, -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 08:09, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Two Separate Articles
The initial purpose of creating a separate South-Eastern Suburbs page was to declutter the large Eastern Suburbs page. Upon doing some googling it is true that government references to the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney are Watsons Bay to La Perouse and appear to be only councils of Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick. Colloquially however people in suburbs like Daceyville, Pagewood and Eastgardens etc also identify with being within this area even though it looks like the council of Bayside isn't included in Sydney's East according to government maps (I would have thought at least some of Bayside is still Eastern Suburbs).

Regardless of this, this is a travel guide and the regions have been broken down into six categories for Sydney's East to make it easier for tourists to understand because obviously it doesn't make much sense to say Maroubra is Eastern Suburbs but Eastgardens is not the Eastern Suburbs just because of the government councils. This is a travel guide to help tourists understand the areas a bit better in ways that perhaps government maps can't. I have no issue with merging everything onto the one Eastern Suburbs page it just becomes a very large clutter page that makes it harder for travellers to understand which was where the sub categories came into play. Obviously a tourist isn't going to visit places like Watsons Bay and La Perouse on the same day.

I just genuinely hope that the two articles that were reorganised are now merged for the right reasons in order to help build a travel guide and not just to copy and paste information from Wikipedia onto Wikivoyage just for the same of arguments happening on another website. Traveller comes first. Voyage2023 (talk) 00:14, 29 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The initial purpose of the separate South-Eastern Suburbs page was for you to push your personal agenda after you lost a lengthy argument (on a facts basis i.e. the facts did not back you up) on Wikipedia.
 * For tourists, the separate page is not helpful. The "South Eastern Suburbs" is a rarely used and confusing term. If a tourist is staying in the Eastern Suburbs, say in Maroubra, they may not realise that in order to learn about things to do, see or eat then they will have visit a second page you made for the so called "South Eastern Suburbs". Daceyvillain (talk) 00:39, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I have never edited on Wikipedia and like I said I'm not opposed to the merging of the two articles so long as it is coherent. Voyage2023 (talk) 00:41, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You have been using the same IP address(es) to edit Wikipedia, Wikivoyage and Wikitravel, at roughly the same time, about the same esoteric topic (creating a new page for the "South Eastern Suburbs"). Daceyvillain (talk) 00:43, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I think you have me confused with someone else :) I assure you I've never edited on Wikipedia before and I don't really want to be involved in arguments happening on Wikipedia that are now spilling over onto Wikivoyage. I'm just here to build a travel guide like everyone else and I hope you're here to do the same. You seem very invested in the topic. Voyage2023 (talk) 00:55, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You have been using the same IP addresses to push the same agenda in multiple places. I don’t think lying about this now is going to help. Daceyvillain (talk) 01:03, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Shall we request a CU check on Meta to resolve this issue, then? -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 12:28, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That sounds like a good idea.
 * For example, at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Central_Sydney_Districts.png, Mapper2000 is 203.49.228.129 (i.e. Mapper2000 is voting for their own request using an alias)
 * There is a list of other IPs used by Mapper2000 (aka Voyage2023) here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1124
 * If you search for 203.49.228.129 you will find the right section Daceyvillain (talk) 14:17, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Removed Maps?
Why were the Eastern Sydney Maps removed from the page? They were useful and descriptive in providing an outline and breakdown of Sydney's Eastern Suburbs which made it easier for travelers to understand the region. There was nothing controversial about them, they're geography and municipality based. I understand that perhaps government maps do not include any part of Bayside Council as being eastern suburbs but suburbs like eastgardens and botany are still definitely connected to the region with nothing to properly separate them into a different part of Sydney altogether. Removing the maps is not constructive. Can we please put these back;

Voyage2023 (talk) 09:56, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * File:Sydney Inner City & Eastern Suburbs Regions.jpg
 * File:Eastern Sydney Districts and Suburbs Map.png


 * The maps were removed because they were purposefully inaccurate (as intended by your alias Mapper2000). I agree that if we had an accurate map then it would be useful to post it. Daceyvillain (talk) 14:11, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Aside from your ludicrous assumptions that I'm Mapper2000 and that I'm also allegedly editing Wikipedia. What dare I ask is inaccurate about the maps? Should Botany-Eastgardens not be included in your definition of the eastern suburbs? Do these maps not correlate with perhaps your view of what is and isn't Sydney's east? At this point I feel there should be a discussion as to whether or not the maps remain on the page as we work on consensus here. @SHB2000 What do you think? Voyage2023 (talk) 08:08, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * At this point I'm too worn out by this debate (+ some unrelated Commons gobbledegook) to ever contribute something meaningful to it. I'll accept whatever the consensus says. -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 08:10, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * We already had this debate on Wikipedia and reached a consensus there. We should use the same definition here
 * https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Suburbs_(Sydney) Daceyvillain (talk) 08:29, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * In particular the “South Eastern Suburbs” was deemed Original Research because it was not used in the vast majority of government maps of the area and so we should not use that term anywhere Daceyvillain (talk) 08:31, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Here are three examples of government maps which Mapper2000 just continues to ignore
 * https://abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/118 https://www.seslhd.health.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/groups/PICH/Priority%20Populations/Eastern%20Suburbs_SESLHD_2016%20Census.pdf https://www.randwick.nsw.gov.au/about-us/news/news-items/2016/march/a-new-eastern-sydney-council
 * And if you ask most commercial services (like Google Maps or realestate.com.au) to define the Eastern Suburbs, they basically use a union of the three maps above. Sometimes even more areas are included. But the Eastern Sububs is never ever rendered as just the tip of the peninsula, which is what Mapper2000 aka Voyage2023 aka … keeps trying to do in their fake maps Daceyvillain (talk) 08:35, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Voyage2023, we already know that you are Mapper2000 and Traveller2000 and various other IPs, so you should drop the pretense. It isn’t helpful Daceyvillain (talk) 08:19, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I am willing to request a Commons CU check if that's what is needed to settle the debate, though. -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 08:25, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Daceyvillain I'm happy to start a discussion to reach consensus on this issue but before we do it would be good if we could resolve this and I think for clarity I'd like to address the real reason why you've come over from Wikipedia to Wikivoyage. Reading all your posts and edits I'd just like to ask whether you've come on Wikivoyage because you genuinely care about building a travel guide or are you here for something else? You keep saying the maps are misleading and inaccurate but it seems like this has just turned into a witch hunt because you have a vendetta over what's currently happening on Wikipedia. Just because you're currently involved in arguments with Mapper2000 on Wikipedia doesn't mean everyone is Mapper2000. Specifically when you say the maps are misleading and inaccurate could you please elaborate on that and explain exactly what it is about them that is wrong? Voyage2023 (talk) 18:59, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I already have many times (see above for recent examples)
 * The fact that you use multiple accounts on each site you visit in order to promote your own agenda is alarming.
 * Yesterday I realised you are using multiple accounts on Quora as well to answer your own self serving “questions” and vote for your own answers
 * You are not acting with integrity. You are using at least 6 usernames as well as using various IPs to push a agenda which you know is not well supported by facts or common usage. Daceyvillain (talk) 22:21, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You haven't answered my question you've just reiterated that you're here for a witch hunt with a vendetta. Explain properly what about the maps is wrong please. Voyage2023 (talk) 00:20, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I have already explained hundreds of times, including on this page if you scroll up.
 * But because you are a troll you are pretending to be ignorant of the truth.
 * On all of your maps, you are making the Eastern Suburbs tiny, but on the vast majority of government and commercial maps the Eastern Suburbs are huge.
 * And the term “South Eastern Suburbs” is rarely if ever used on maps, except on all of your fake maps.
 * Please stop uploading fake maps onto the internet and creating multiple personalities to promote your strange agenda. Daceyvillain (talk) 00:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that you're only gripe with the maps is just the fact that the southern portion of the eastern suburbs has the title 'south-eastern suburbs'? Even though it clearly says south-eastern suburbs. I did digging on government definitions of the eastern suburbs and it's only Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick, they don't include any part of Bayside Council so these maps make the entire eastern suburbs region larger than government maps, not smaller. Does Botany not fit your criteria for Sydney's eastern suburbs? Do you think the eastern suburbs should just be the government definition of Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick and if so, what region would Botany then be put under for Wikivoyage? What solution do you propose? Voyage2023 (talk) 01:03, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You continually ignore government maps like the ones already posted on this page. We already had this debate on Wikipedia and you lost because you had no supporting evidence.
 * Given your disregard for government maps I’m sure your maps are inaccurate in other ways (e.g. the earlier maps controversy you caused on Commons).
 * Your biggest problem is that due to your use of multiple accounts to attack other people and support your own opinion, we can’t trust anything that you say or do Daceyvillain (talk) 02:27, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You already know that Botany is often included in maps of the Eastern Suburbs, but here is another example of a government map which explicitly includes it
 * https://www.seslhd.health.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/groups/PICH/Priority%20Populations/Eastern%20Suburbs_SESLHD_2016%20Census.pdf Daceyvillain (talk) 02:30, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * For a second can we stop with the paranoia and assumptions of who's whom. All you're doing is being aggressive and repeatedly bringing up the arguments currently happening on Wikipedia which ultimately have nothing to do with Wikivoyage but you're avoiding what I've asked. Let's keep discussions here relevant to the page, which is why we're all here. What is wrong with the maps? What do you feel needs to be changed? Because I'm not understanding your point. Voyage2023 (talk) 03:07, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The page history and IPs used show that you are all the same person so you can stop pretending otherwise Daceyvillain (talk) 03:50, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Consensus - Do The Maps Stay or Go?
Consensus as to whether or not the two maps are supported to remain on the eastern suburbs page. The two maps in question being:


 * File:Sydney Inner City & Eastern Suburbs Regions.jpg
 * File:Eastern Sydney Districts and Suburbs Map.png

Discussion
Voyage2023 (talk) 03:41, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * – Keep both maps on page as they aren't doing any harm and are a useful tool in order to break down and understand Sydney's eastern suburbs and bordering areas. Travellers and tourists who are unfamiliar with the area would get an easier understanding of the region overall with the map's district structure. To remove the maps is not constructive. The alternative to structuring the page with government maps as it is on Wikipedia wouldn't make much sense as it would be to create a map of only Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick Councils with the district structure purely being the three councils themselves which is something a traveller or tourist could simply google and wouldn't need to visit Wikivoyage for. This would then also mean having to leave out Botany and Eastgardens from the eastern suburbs page as they are part of Bayside Council which government maps do not include in the eastern suburbs, which also doesn't make much sense as Eastgardens is a prominent shopping centre in Sydney's eastern suburbs that deserves to be on the page.


 * Voyage2023 / Mapper2000 and their other aliases and IPs should be banned (again) for ignoring the vast majority of official sources and wasting everyone‘s time (again) Daceyvillain (talk) 03:52, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * And your comments above don’t make any sense. Government maps do often include Bayside in the Eastern Suburbs but you just keep ignoring government maps. Botany council (half of what is now called Bayside) also had a longstanding plan to merge with Randwick Council which will probably happen one day.
 * See https://www.seslhd.health.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/groups/PICH/Priority%20Populations/Eastern%20Suburbs_SESLHD_2016%20Census.pdf as an example map which has already been shared multiple times on this page and in other discussions, but you just choose to always ignore it because it doesn’t fit your strange agenda. Daceyvillain (talk) 04:00, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I think this where I'm going stop indulging this insanity.
 * Firstly; This discussion was started for the sake of consensus for you to add whether you support or oppose the maps remaining on the page, not for you to keep replying to me with your aggressive paranoia.
 * Secondly; I just googled 'Bayside Council Eastern Suburbs' and literally all I found were these two sources that say Bayside Council is a southern and south-eastern suburbs council and compromises a portion of southern sydney and eastern sydney which is exactly what the Wikimedia maps we're discussing say:
 * https://profile.id.com.au/baysidensw/about
 * https://www.bayside.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2019-08/Information%20Guide%20Bayside%20Council.pdf
 * Again I'm still unclear on what exactly your issue with the maps is whether the maps show the eastern suburbs to be too big or too small. I hand on heart could not find a single map nor government source that put Bayside Council in the eastern suburbs with Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick. Every and all government sources say eastern suburbs is just Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick Councils and that there was once a plan to apparently merge those three together which got scrapped, but never Randwick and Botany as you believe, Botany got merged with Rockdale in 2017:
 * https://www.bayside.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2017-11/Administrator%20s%20End%20of%20Term%20Report.pdf
 * https://www.yoursay.randwick.nsw.gov.au/amalgamation
 * https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/wentworth-courier/state-government-set-to-scrap-forced-amalgamations-including-eastern-suburbs-merger/news-story/6c0b823953313294e49b79f622f2439f
 * Thirdly; I simply googled 'Sydney's eastern suburbs' and this is literally all the government sources that came up (not a single one has Bayside Council):
 * https://abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/118
 * https://economy.id.com.au/sydney-eastern-suburbs
 * https://www.sydney.com/destinations/sydney/sydney-east
 * https://www.visitsydneyaustralia.com.au/eastern-suburbs.html
 * https://profile.id.com.au/randwick
 * https://profile.id.com.au/waverley
 * https://profile.id.com.au/woollahra
 * https://abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/community-profiles/2021/11802
 * https://abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/11801
 * https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/current-projects/cbd-and-south-east-light-rail
 * https://transitmap.net/sydney-eastern-buses/
 * https://transportnsw.info/document/5669/south_east_network_map_05122021.pdf
 * Obviously this is Wikivoyage and not Wikipedia to which you are clearly accustomed so government citation doesn't mean much here but nothing you're saying is coherent if I'm honest and you seem to enjoy providing links to prove whatever it is you're trying to prove so I thought I'd provide some links to add some reality to this discussion. So I'm still confused by what you want, are you saying Bayside Council should be included on the maps the way it is or you're saying it should be removed from the maps because the government definition of the eastern suburbs is limited to just Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick. I'm happy to continue to have Botany and Eastgardens on this page regardless of them being in Bayside Council even if it officially isn't considered eastern suburbs by the government because this is not Wikipedia but I'm still unclear as to whether or not you have a problem with that?
 * After googling sydney's eastern suburbs and going through those sources I once more fail to see what is wrong with the Wikimedia maps and what exactly you're trying to achieve on Wikivoyage aside from your witch hunt you've brought over from Wikipedia. I don't think you fully understand why you're here either as you haven't really contributed positively to Wikivoyage nor have you provided a logical point to whatever it is your crusade is about. For the sake of sanity I'm actually going to stop engaging in your mania because with all due respect I think you have a screw loose which isn't doing me, yourself nor Wikivoyage any good. Voyage2023 (talk) 06:03, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Voyage2023 / Mapper2000 / Traveller2000 / anon IP —
 * You have been on a crusade for over 6 months now, ignoring government maps like these below, as well as ignoring common sense and common usage, to try to limit maps and discussions of the Eastern Suburbs to just the very top of the eastern peninsula. You have have used multiple accounts and multiple anonymous IP edits to try to win arguments by attacking other people and by secretly replying in support of yourself, which is an act of zero integrity and goes against the guidelines of all the platforms which you are trying to influence (Wikipedia, Commons, Wikivoyage, Wikitravel, Quora, Reddit, …). You have a strange obsession with trying to redefine the Eastern Suburbs to be a tiny area, and I struggle to understand your motivations, other than as some form of weird and misguided classism.
 * https://abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/118
 * https://www.seslhd.health.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/groups/PICH/Priority%20Populations/Eastern%20Suburbs_SESLHD_2016%20Census.pdf
 * https://www.randwick.nsw.gov.au/about-us/news/news-items/2016/march/a-new-eastern-sydney-council Daceyvillain (talk) 07:18, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I agree that it looks weird for the Eastern suburbs to include just Woollahra and Waverley – they can be their own region if the page does get very long, but a split the way it was is a bit abnormal, to say the least. SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 08:18, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I honestly think the only reason Mapper2000 (and alias) made their maps was to draw the Eastern Suburbs as a small area. They went to so much effort, I don't understand it.
 * Anyway, obviously your call on what to do if the page gets long, but just be aware that Mapper2000 (etc) is on a crusade to define the Eastern Suburbs as only a small area. They have spent hundreds of hours trying to do that all over the internet (at Wikipedia, Wikivoyage, Wikitravel, Quora, Reddit, ...). Daceyvillain (talk) 09:10, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I mean, this page isn't even that long to be subdivided just yet, and I'd prefer if it were done how I proposed it on User:SHB2000/ES, not how it's done on Mapper2000's maps. -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 09:18, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Right, using council boundaries makes more sense. But note that the councils (Woollahra, Waverley, Randwick and Botany) almost merged to form a supercouncil for the Eastern Suburbs a few years ago, and that might happen for real in the future. So the council boundaries would be gone then.
 * eg https://amp.smh.com.au/national/nsw/randwick-mayor-ted-seng-backs-merger-with-waverley-woollahra-20150513-gh0kil.html
 * "Of seven options explored by the Randwick Council, a merger between Waverley, Woollahra, Randwick and Botany was found to offer the highest opportunity to deliver more services." Daceyvillain (talk) 09:42, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed – and for the places that do need their own articles, like Bondi or Maroubra, already have their own articles. SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 09:55, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, they are at it again...
 * User:Voyage2023/Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs
 * https://wikitravel.org/en/User:Traveller2000/Sydney/South-Eastern_Suburbs Daceyvillain (talk) 14:54, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * What happens on Wikitravel is irrelevant. Please do not mention it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:10, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

= Map =

Here is my attempt at a map of the Eastern Suburbs. The M1 Motorway becomes much easier to cross in Surry Hills, and it is gone/underground by the time Darlinghurst begins, so the boundary there is a bit fuzzy.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_the_Eastern_Suburbs_of_Sydney,_Australia.jpg

Daceyvillain (talk) 05:54, 18 March 2024 (UTC)


 * It's a great map, but please add the source of the map under the " " on Commons. I do believe we cover Moore Park under Sydney/City East on Wikivoyage, though (I guess that's because Moore Park is in CoS while Randwick is not), which will need to be fixed (part of the "fuzzy" territory). -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 06:00, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Re: more source info, done
 * Re: City East page, it looks like Paddington is listed there as well, but Paddington is more commonly considered as Eastern Suburbs I think... maybe listing Moore Park and Paddington on both pages is fine? Daceyvillain (talk) 07:31, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but on Wikivoyage we explicitly cover Paddington and Moore Park on Sydney/City East because it makes more sense from a traveller's perspective. -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 08:37, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Though I guess there is a case for Paddington since it is outside CoS boundaries. -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 08:38, 18 March 2024 (UTC)