Talk:Spain/Archive 2003-2012

Links for research

 * -- robbery in Barcelona (and Spain), in Russian; written by a wife of Spanish policeman. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 11:30, 29 May 2010 (EDT)

Suggestion/Question for Sleep Section
I swore I either saw it here on Wikivoyage or maybe it was on Wikipedia, but I can't seem to find it.

Wherever I found it, I recall that there are these monasteries in Spain that are reasonably priced that allow you to spend the night in the monastery with some monks (a lot like Shukubō in Japan).

Anyone know what I'm talking about? If so, maybe it should be added. --129.21.117.115

i ve honestly no idea what you re talking about but what i do know is that the guide "lonelyplanet" gives a great overview over the "youth hostels" in barcelona... i wouldnt wonder if that would be true for all lonelyplanet guides. good book shops even have them in english language in spain!

I think you are talking about " Hospederias" like el Monasterio de Santo Domingo de Silos in Burgos

Regions
So, I've checked a couple of other Web sites with region information for Spain:


 * http://www.red2000.com/spain/region/
 * http://www.spaintour.com/regions.htm

We seem to be in rough agreement, I believe. --(WT-en) Evan 11:16, 17 Dec 2003 (PST)

About Languages in Spain
I am a Spaniard myself, so that I would like to comment (before editing anything) about the languages on the "Spain" page. Spain has one official language in the whole country (Spanish), which is spoken and understood by (almost) all the population. There are also three other coofficial languages in their respective regions (Catalonia, Basque Country and Galicia), which are spoken by a moderate number of people (catalan is, by far, the most spoken one of the three, and roughly 70% of the population in Catalonia can speak and understand it). The article seems to imply that Spanish is only spoken by ca. 74% of the population, which is totally inaccurate, an a likely source of trouble for people wishing to visiy my country. Could someone please change it to reflect the real stand of things? Thanks Miguel

-- More about languages in Spain: I'm a galician myself, don't know if a spaniard, and I would like to say that Catalan is not the most spoken regional language in tems of percentage in Spain. Galician language is talked as primary language by 80% of the our population, specially in the country areas, but it has less social recognition than Catalan, for instance. In some cities, specially in la Coruña, it's quite strange to hear it in the city center, but in virtually every small town, Galician is the first language for daily communication.

I am a long-time traveler to Galicia and to Euskadi. One needs to be very careful with terms like "region" - which I have commented on in my editing. It is important indeed to recognize that within an autonomy, a language such as Galician is know and used by a majority of the population. At one point Galician was spoken by 90% of the people. Travelers who use th elanguage may get odd looks, but it also opens many doors. I know this from over 25 years of experience and research on the area. Respect for the local character is vital for getting the most out of travel. And yes, it is entirely possible that less than 3/4 of the population of Spain speaks Spanish - as a native langauge, it probably doesn't even reach that high. Many people still recall that Franco used to sign death sentences for people who were from one of the nationalities on the periphery of the country. Kathleen

Of the three recognized regional languages, galician is not the one in the most precarious state... that dubious honour would fall on basque.--65.212.107.3 13:22, 22 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Well, now it is the turn for the Catalan, right? So I am a Catalan myself. I have ammended things such as the word Las before the word Islas because it does not belong to the name, like we don't say The United Kingdom but The UK. Also, I have to say that Catalan is spoken absolutely everywhere in Catalunya. The only regions you would not find that 100% of people speaks it is between, say, Salou and just after Barcelona in the coast. This is because it is the area with more tourisim and more immigration from in and out of Spain. If you are in the second town coast inside, this is like 10KM or so, you will have a hard time to find Spanish speaking people. Though, most of the people in Catalunya speak Spanish. I said most because there are a good percentage of people in Catalunya that speak Catalan period.
 * I would like to add that the names of the comunities are sometimes only possible in the language of the comunity. For instance, Catalunya is the only way to write it. This happens as well with Illes Balears, Girona, A Coruña, Ourense, Lleida, Vitoria-Gasteiz and ALL the rest of the cities of Catalunya and Illes Balears. With the Basque County, the standard Basque name is suposed to be used. In València, most of them can be referred as using both the Catalan and the Spanish word. This is official, decided in the Parliament. Here you have a guide (in Spanish).
 * Also, I'd like to talk about the language of València. As a linguist I have to say that it is Catalan. As a human being that reads the news, I would say it is Valencià. The Statute of València says that Valencian is the language of València. They don't like it to be called a dialect of Catalan, so we should respect that. But, whatever it is called (I am fine if we say that the language of Catalunya is Valencià) we speak the same. Remember that "Catalan" per se does not exist, as all of us speak a dialect of a language that no one really speaks, i.e. we all speak either the variant of this town or this other place.
 * Also, I'd like to say that I have changed some influence stuff. It was said that Catalan has influence of French. But this isn't true. The same influence Spanish has of Italian. All this languages are dialects of the same Latin language. Perhaps in the middle ages we could talk about an influence, but not now. They are closely related, yes, but not influencied. If I speak Catalan to a French they will understand me as much as an English speaking to a Dutch. Also, about Aranès, I changed it to say that it is closely related to Occitan (There is the same problem like Catalan and Valencian: Provençal, Occitan and Aranès are very related and some say it is the same language, especially the first two).
 * Lastly I want to say, just as an addition, that in the Balearic Islands, most comonly, don't have this name of the language problem. —The preceding comment was added by 81.34.48.144 (talk • contribs) 7 Feb 2007

The Spanish Provinces
Spain subdivides it's regions into provinces. At the moment, I would feel that these are too small for Wikivoyage and the regions would normally be all we would need. The problem is that the provinces all tend to be named after their main town. eg Malaga (city), Malaga (province), Granada (city), Granada (province), leading to confusion and disabiguation pages for all these places. Should we avoid creating the province article where possible??? -- (WT-en) DanielC 10:29, 4 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Renfe, fastest connection
i would add it myself but i cant express properly what i mean so i ll just give you an example:

If you wanna go from Barcelona to Salmanca (a town between madrid and portugal) the RENFE Homepage and the personal at the trainstation will only give you the DIRECT connection between Salamanca and Barcelona. They dont look up if it would be faster to take a train to Madrid and from Madrid to Barcelona. (or if the direct train is full)

I ve no clue why they dont do that...

So: You may wanna add that...

Topics, topics and more topics
This article is fulfilled with topics. E.g, it is said that southern Spain (Andalusian Country) is mostly desert.That's FALSE. Andalusia has high-mountain zones and very-green ones. The desert zone is Almeria, in eastern Andalusia.

Who has written it?


 * It doesn't matter who wrote it -- just go ahead and fix it. -- (WT-en) Colin 11:58, 6 August 2006 (EDT)
 * The contributors are listed at the bottom of the page as well as in the page history (click on the tab at the top). Again, please feel free to edit the page! (WT-en) Maj 12:09, 6 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Of course, it was a "retoric" question. I've tried to fix it. Let's hope i've improved the article.

Toooooooooo many cities!
Who knows enough to edit down the city list to 9?

Here's a start...
 * Barcelona
 * Bilbao
 * Granada
 * Seville
 * Valencia

(WT-en) Cacahuate 11:14, 16 December 2006 (EST)


 * I would add San Sebastián and Cordoba (city). That makes seven, so can still add two more - How about Santander and Cadiz to round off? (WT-en) WindHorse 11:29, 16 December 2006 (EST)
 * Just realized that Madrid was not on your original list, so maybe skip Cadiz. It is an old city, but these days is not one of Spain's top commercial or tourist centers - though perhaps the north west corner is over represented with Bilbao, Santander and San Sebastian..... thoughts? (WT-en) WindHorse 11:39, 16 December 2006 (EST)
 * oops, I just went forward and made those first nine... I don't know actually, perhaps leave it until  someone objects? (WT-en) Cacahuate 11:47, 16 December 2006 (EST)
 * I think you were making the change when I was adding the last comment. Anyway, I agree. Let's just leave the current list until someone offers a different opinion. (WT-en) WindHorse 11:52, 16 December 2006 (EST)
 * Sometimes these big lists indicate that the subject area has not been sufficiently filled out in Wikivoyage. It's a good idea to ensure that each of the cities you're delinking is still linked to from somewhere.  Thanks for working on this!  I checked and it looks like just Ávila needs to be de-orphaned by being placed into some region. -- (WT-en) Colin 13:03, 16 December 2006 (EST)
 * Aaah, good point, will heed in future! Thanks! (WT-en) Cacahuate 13:22, 16 December 2006 (EST)

Top-level regions
The region list needs to be simplified. The official autonomous regions are sensible travel regions, but there's just too many of them listed here to get a handle on (the old 5-to-9 rule). Since one of the fundamental geocultural divisions of Spain are its language groups, I'm proposing that we use that as the top level. This means taking a lot of majority-Castillian territory and lumping it all together, and to a lesser extent with Catalonian Spain, but those regions can be broken down into the smaller autonomous regions. My knowledge of Spanish geography is all textbook-based, so please correct me if there are serious problems with this hierarchy:


 * Castilian Spain
 * Andalucía
 * Cantabria
 * Castile-La Mancha
 * Castile and Leon
 * Extremadura
 * Madrid
 * Murcia
 * Navarra
 * La Rioja
 * Catalonian Spain
 * Catalonia
 * Valencia
 * Balearic Islands
 * Aragón
 * Asturias
 * Basque Country
 * Galicia
 * African Spain
 * Canary Islands
 * Ceuta
 * Melilla


 * The comment above is really wrong. Andalucia is not Castilian Spain. It's an autonomy with its own identity and culture, such as Catalonia or Basque Country. —The preceding comment was added by 194.140.3.2 (talk • contribs)


 * I realize that each region of Spain is distinct, but I was hoping to come up with some larger groupings, based on language, and the people of Andalucia do speak castellano. Like I said, I'm looking for information, so please help me out.  Or do you think that language is a bad way to organize Spain?  How would you suggest doing it? - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 08:12, 5 July 2007 (EDT)


 * How about, Madrid, Southern Spain (Andalucia and Murcia), Catalonian Spain (Catalonia and Valencia), Central Spain (Castila La Mancha, Castila y Leon, Rioja), Northwestern Spain (Galicia, Asturias, Cantabrias), Pais Vasco and the Spanish Pyrnees (Pais Vasco, Navarra, Aragon), The Islands (Canaries, Balearic islas). 7 regions in all.--(WT-en) Wandering 22:48, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
 * This is a good start, but omits Extremadura. I also think the heading of Catalonian Spain will be too controversial, given the strength of Catalonia's separate identity. Every time I go to the region, I am reminded by locals that "Spain" is somewhere else.
 * I went through the section earlier adding links, and at least combined Ceuta and Melilla. I'll give this topic some further thought, but trying to define regions in Spain is to open a real can of worms.(WT-en) Jnich99 16:13, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * OK, here's another attempt at simplifying the regions list. I've gone for a geographical split, which is the way Europe is organised into regions, despite culturally-driven controversy over the boundaries of central and eastern Europe. Comments welcome.


 * Northwestern Spain
 * Galicia
 * Asturias
 * Cantabria
 * Basque Country and northern Spain
 * Basque Country
 * Navarra
 * La Rioja
 * Catalonia and northeastern Spain
 * Catalonia
 * Aragón
 * Central and western Spain
 * Madrid
 * Castile-La Mancha
 * Castile-Leon
 * Extremadura
 * Eastern Spain
 * Valencia
 * Murcia
 * Andalucía
 * Non-Iberian Spain
 * Balearic Islands
 * Canary Islands
 * Ceuta
 * Melilla
 * This gives seven regions, one of which (central and western Spain) is a monster. As I said, suggestions and comments most welcome.(WT-en) Jnich99 04:21, 19 August 2008 (EDT)


 * This looks pretty nice to me, probably better than the breakdown on the Spanish version article, which you might want to take a look at to compare. I don't know anything about travel in the country beyond Barcelona, though. If/when you finish this hierarchy project, would you please remind me to make a map! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:50, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I've checked the Spanish language and Catalan versions, which are similar, and I think their North, East, South, West divisions are a bit clunky. Current French and German Wikivoyage articles broadly replicate what we've got here. If there are no more comments, I'll take a crack at setting up the new hierarchy over the next week or two. Thanks, Jim (WT-en) Jnich99 08:48, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

I think this is a good breakdown, but we usually try to keep the names as short as possible... I would suggest:


 * Northwestern Spain
 * Basque Country and Northern Spain &rarr; Northern Spain
 * Catalonia and Northeastern &rarr; Northeastern Spain
 * Central and Western &rarr; Central Spain
 * Eastern Spain
 * Andalucía

And then for the non-Iberian part, I would simply list those islands and enclaves under "other destinations"... I would only create a top-level region for them if they were all near each other and grouped together well as a region. Nice work! – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 16:30, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

I agree with cacahuate, those region names look a lot better.

I even think Eastern Spain and Northeastern Spain could be combined, as both are Catalan regions. Combining Northwestern Spain and Northern Spain wouldn't be so bad as well I think. (WT-en) Globe-trotter 17:24, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
 * Thanks for cleaning up. I'm cool with the changes, but have had less time to work on Wikivoyage in the past year. (WT-en) Jnich99 15:01, 6 September 2009 (EDT)

"Central Spain" is too much diverse. For instance, Badajoz and Soria have very little, if nothing, to do, beside the low population density. Also, Madrid is way too different in many aspects; perhaps I didn't understand which criteria is being applied here. 193.152.252.245 10:26, 12 September 2009 (EDT)

North African enclaves
With the Balearic and Canary Islands (rightly) being top-level regions now, I think it's time to ditch useless and confusing Non-Iberian Spain "region" altogether (and that's a semi-orphaned page only linked from this discussion page, anyway). That leaves us two North African cities (Ceuta and Melilla) and some islands in the Mediterranean with no region assigned. I don't really like having them listed in the "Other destinations" section, a distinction based solely on geography (and they are not "other destinations" in the strictest Wikivoyage sense anyway), and I'm not really a fan of the idea of having cities directly under the country level in the hierarchy with no intermediate regions. So, what about a region article named North African enclaves, or if that's too ambigious more explanatory but long-winded Spanish North African enclaves? (North African Spain may work, too, but users may think that should include Canary Islands.) I think I can put up a reasonably general article for this region, with at least some sections filled out. – (WT-en) Vidimian 10:08, 17 November 2010 (EST)


 * I don't think a separate content area would work as both cities are fairly far away and separate from each other. I'd like a similar construction as used in Taiwan, where "Outlying territories" would be kept black and unlinked with the destinations behind it linked separately. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 15:36, 17 November 2010 (EST)

Revive discussion


I think this is an interesting way of combining the Spanish regions (see map). Murcia, Ceuta and Melilla would join Andalucía and make a region called Southern Spain. Aragon would join Northern Spain. Catalonia, the Valencian Community and the Balearen could form a Eastern Spain region.

I think these groupings make a lot of sense. The Catalan communities are grouped together: they share a language and culture, and many tourists drive their car along the coast combining Catalonia and Valencia. Aragon is not a beach destination and thus feels more "inland": that makes it fit better with the other Northern Spanish communities. And it gives a solution for Ceuta and Melilla in the South. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 13:12, 6 February 2011 (EST)


 * I'm not any expert in Spain, but Eastern and Northern parts look reasonable to me. Only not sure Basque Country should be in the same region as Aragon etc, as they are too much different. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 15:58, 6 February 2011 (EST)


 * How about España Verde, which encompasses all Atlantic coast from Galicia to Basque Country. This seems to be a common tourism designation as well, having an official homepage with links to websites of regional tourism associations. And aren't Balearic Islands important enough as to warrant their own top-level region (yes, the native language is Catalan there, too, but...). Otherwise, the regions looked good to me (neither am I an expert on Spain, though). – (WT-en) Vidimian 16:17, 6 February 2011 (EST)




 * That sounds like a great idea. When discussing regions, I mostly thought about cultural features, but Green Spain shows that geographic features should come more into play as well. I attached a map that shows the different climate regions of Spain. The problem is that La Rioja, Navarre and Aragon are not a part of Green Spain, as they have a dry continental climate (also opposing the Mediterranean east). I think grouping these three together as "Northern Spain" would make sense. The Balearen are a major travel region, and I agree they should be their own top-level region. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 00:55, 13 February 2011 (EST)


 * Yep, "Green Spain" should only be set aside for northwestern/Atlantic regions. Inland regions should form a seperate region, and I'd be fine with naming it Northern Spain or Pyrenean Spain. – (WT-en) Vidimian 13:10, 13 February 2011 (EST)


 * What do we do about Murcia? I'd say historically it was a part of La Mancha, so it could easily be grouped with Central Spain. Also, climatically it is a steppe, VERY hot, which has more in common with the immensely hot Central Spain as opposed to the cooler coastal regions. Also, it is not Catalan like Eastern Spain and it is not Andalucian like the South. On the other hand, it is a coastal region, so grouping it as Central might be a bit odd. What do you think? --(WT-en) globe-trotter 16:38, 24 February 2011 (EST)


 * From what I understand, people visit Murcia primarily for its beaches, just like they do in Costa del Sol; and local Spanish dialect is not that far from Andalusian Spanish, so I think Murcia and Andalusia goes well together. And as far as I could see, Wikipedia article on La Mancha makes no mention of Murcia; saying "La Mancha is ... located on ... elevated plateau (610 m or 2000 ft.) of central Spain". – (WT-en) Vidimian 13:19, 25 February 2011 (EST)

guidelines on Eat sections of spanish cities


After reading and editing a dozen of articles on Spanish cities, I came to conclusion that we need some guidelines on how to describe Eat general info and listings. Here's what I came to at the moment:
 * don't introduce in local article terms that are global for the whole Spain or its region (Catalonia, Basque Country, Aragon): menu del dia, tapas, pintxos, Jamón Serrano and Jamón Iberico, --instead, contribute your corrections to Spain article or to its region the info is specific for.
 * be sure that local dishes you introduce are really local, not available through all Spain--in the latter case, contribute your description to the Spain article
 * list tapas bars in Drink section, not Eat: it's impossible in most cases to have full-meal dinner or lunch in a tapas bar, and tapas is supposed to be eaten with alco drinks (beer, cider, wine) in most cases
 * for traditional restaurants (as opposed to tapas bars), define price range basing on main course: "Mains generally €X-Y". It's ok to allow few unregularly expensive exceptions that don't fit into a range, like lobster kind of delicacies.
 * for restaurants, state whether it offers menu del dia or other kind of set menu. If there're some restrictions (i.e. available only Mon-Fri, 1:30pm-4:30pm)--mention it.
 * (I would vote to define the same price ranges to be used throughout the country. Do we have many destinations that are priced much differently from the rest of Spain?)
 * split listings at least into Traditional Spanish food and Non-Spanish food--use categories like this as a sublevel under Budget/Mid-Range/Splurge top-level classification
 * create separate section for restaurants open during siesta (4:30pm-8:30pm)

I would welcome any comments, additions and objections on the above.

Another thing is how to make editors of any Spanish city aware of the guidelines we agree upon. I would welcome any ideas on that. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 15:29, 21 October 2007 (EDT)

seafood notice is too generalized
''> Spaniards are very concerned about the freshness of seafood and you may place an order only to have the waiter tell you that he can not serve this dish, because they did not receive this particular seafood freshly that day. It is very unlikely that you will find dishes prepared from frozen fish in a real Spanish restaurant''

This is not true for many touristic places around Barcelona and Aragon.

With exception to specialized seafood restaurants and few specifically reputated general restaurants, I would not list this as a general rule. Any objections to removing it in how it is written now? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:00, 21 October 2007 (EDT)


 * None. The person who wrote that statement has obviously not eaten in many low end restaurants where frozen fish is not unlikely. I agree that in coastal Spain fresh fish is more likely than not, but, in cheap 'real Spanish restaurants' in interior regions, especially around Madrid, fresh fish is hard to come by.--(WT-en) Wandering 22:41, 24 October 2007 (EDT)


 * Done, see Spain. Any further edits and clarifications would be welcome. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 18:47, 9 November 2007 (EST)

1. 400 km away from the sea, you will find frozen seafood and fish unless you go to a expensive place (or unless you live in Madrid). But it cannot be forgotten that Spain is the 2nd consumer of fish in the world and generally we like it fresh - frozen fish is not exactly the same as "fish and chips". So even if it is frozen, and the quality cannot compete in Castilla with what you find in Galicia... in a not-so-bad place it is still of reasonable quality.

2. As a rule of the thumb, eating what is growth in the area is a good idea. Everywehere. So, why not make a comment on river-fish? Trouts are very popular and tasty in the inside regions. —The preceding comment was added by 130.206.11.188 (talk • contribs)


 * What changes exactly do you propose to current edition of Spain? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 12:58, 28 February 2009 (EST)

coffee chains
I've re-edited the recent edit of Tea and Coffee section and invite do discuss it here.

My point is that, while we can dispute on quality of coffee at Star Bucks, theres no national chain which either has so many outlets or which is as consistent in its quality level as Star Bucks is. I would welcome to hear arguments and facts counter to my point. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:50, 31 October 2007 (EDT)


 * As another removal of my text followed, I've made a third attempt to re-write my phrase. Is it still controversial to someone? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:13, 21 November 2007 (EST)

mineral water
The article gives no hints on local mineral water. Which are the tastiest? Most famous? Have highest content of minerals? Most rich in taste?

Any recommendations? ;-) -(WT-en) DenisYurkin 18:22, 9 November 2007 (EST)

At restaurants, bars, etc., people just order "mineral water" without reference to any specific brand. While shopping at the supermarket, choice is primarily governed by concerns such as price, availability, and even shape of container (5 litre and 8 litre bottles are most common, and different designs offer varying degrees of convenience, e.g., for transport or when pouring the contents). —The preceding comment was added by 81.157.82.190 (talk • contribs)

papas bravas
> The name of this plate comes from its sharp flavor, indicating that it has fire or temperament, recalling the first operation of I goad in which a goad nails to him so that he is brave in the bullfight.

I'm not sure I understand what is all this about. What is goad here? And I goad? A goad nails to whom? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 08:46, 10 November 2007 (EST)

Bravo = Brave, Fiery. "Brave Potatoes" (very very popular) --> strong, spicy, sharp. No idea whats a goad.

24-hour pharmacy
> Every city and town has at least one 24 hour pharmacy.

How universal is this rule? I think this is not the case in Alquezar, where it looked like no shops work 24 hours even in a hot season. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 16:44, 19 November 2007 (EST)


 * It is completely universal, but complex anyway. By law, in any town in Spain there must be, at any time, an open pharmacy.If the town is so small that that would make a really nuisance for the chemist, that rule is applied to the shire(comarca), or to a group of surrounding towns, that are usually very close one to each other. In bigger towns and cities, there are always one or two open pharmacies during the night, and they're called 'farmacia de guardia'. The problem is that they're not always the same one: the pharmacies within the city usually take turns to open all the night around. However, if you come to need one during the night, and the one you find is closed, you should look next to the door of the pharmacy, for there you should find a poster that will tell you which is the pharmacy opened that night, and where to find it. In recent years 24 hours pharmacies are becoming popular in Spain, and in some big cities (Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Bilbao,..) you may find one of those. —The preceding comment was added by 85.85.133.39 (talk • contribs)


 * I've tried to reflect the above in the article; correct me right there if I've misunderstood something. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 16:32, 21 November 2007 (EST)


 * Also, one must bear in mind that the pharmacy on duty can look closed, you have to ring a bell and have the pharmacist come to the door to ask you what you want/need. Signed Daniela Huguet.


 * Plunge forward! --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 14:56, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

varieties of jamons
1. Looks like we have pieces from too many sources packed into a single paragraph on jamons:
 * Jamón (air dried ham): Jamón Serrano (Serrano ham): A tinned food obtained from the salt meat of the back legs of the pig and air dried. This same product is given the name of trowel or paletilla when it is obtained from the front legs. Also it receives the names of jamón Iberico (Iberian) and jamón of bellota (acorn). They are specially famous jamones that takes place in Huelva (Spain), in Guijuelo (province Salamanca), in the Pedroches (province Cordova) and in Trevélez (province of Granada). Jamón Iberico is made from free range pigs.

Could someone add clarity on what's what, how they are different etc? Right now it's so complex that it's nearly useless

2. From my experience, two most cited sorts of jamon are Iberico (min &euro;80/kg) and Serrano (~&euro;25/kg).

Is there anything worthwhile between &euro;25 and &euro;80, or it's purely "25 or 80+" choice?

--(WT-en) DenisYurkin 21:22, 23 November 2007 (EST)

The cheapest is just Jamón Serrano (Serrano Ham), Jamón curado (cured ham), then more expensive is Jamón Ibérico (Iberian Ham) made from better pigs. Finally Jamón de Bellota (Acorn Ham) and Pata Negra (Black Hoof) made from pigs fed mostly with acorns, and extremely expensive. Jamón de Jabugo (a region of Spain) is another expensive variety. Tasting serrano ham will do for most tourist, but the taste of acorn black hoof ham is definitely delicious but expensive. Do not trust somebody offering you cheap acorn ham or pata negra. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jam%C3%B3n_serrano is not so bad, as well as its links to varieties of ham. 85.62.13.196 13:19, 19 December 2007 (EST)

85.62.13.196, why won't you plunge forward to edit this section according to your understanding of the topic? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 07:32, 23 December 2007 (EST)

pintxos counted by toothpicks
I heard that somewhere in Spain, you pay for pintxos postfactum, by the number of toothpicks you leave on the plate. I have never seen that in San Sebastian. Anyone experienced similar practice somewhere? Where is this a common practice? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 06:42, 13 January 2008 (EST)


 * Only in "faux" tabernas outside the Basque Country. In the Basque Country they rely on your honour and relative sobriety to tell them how many you've had. —The preceding comment was added by 81.157.82.190 (talk • contribs)

Stimorol
Re this edit :

> Stimorol chewing gum has been available for years

I couldn't find any in downtown of Barcelona and San Sebastian--maybe you refer to a specific city which is not on my list? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 10:49, 5 July 2008 (EDT)

brands of toothpaste
 "Some international brands you may be used to are not available in Spain: Blend-a-Med toothpaste or Dirol ( Stimorol chewing gum has been available for years) Bring in enough for your whole trip if you can't live without it." - is this paragraph really worthy of inclusion? Just wondering the proportion of visitors to Spain who are actually concerned about the availability of a particular type of toothpaste. Also the sentence seems to imply that these are things available in every country with a peculiar exception of Spain - surely not the case! (WT-en) Phonemonkey 09:50, 1 November 2008 (EDT)


 * I think it's useful for those travelers who have these brands omnipresent in their home country, and knows they are international brands. It doesn't imply these are available in every country (and neither other warnings "it's not like what you are used to" elsewhere in Wikivoyage do). If you see any way to improve, please share your ideas. If not, just ignore these pieces if you find them irrelevant for you. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:37, 20 December 2008 (EST)


 * But seriously - every country and region has different brands of everything. Even different cities.  We can't possibly include all the brands that don't exist in at a destination.  This is such a general rule of travelling anywhere, if you only want the brands you can find at home - take it with you, else be prepared to use what you can find at your destination.  If toothpaste wasn't easily available - fine, worth a mention - but if the brand you like isn't?  It can't just be ignored IMO, the same as the trite Respect sections can't be.   --(WT-en) inas 19:10, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

finding any costume or food in every corner of the country
I've removed the following piece from this edit, as it's way too general to be practically true for a traveler:
 * * All regions in Spain may have different typical foods and costumes, however, you won't find any troubles in finding all sort of national drinks and foods from all regions in all corners of the country.

Please provide more details on what is meant before adding it back to the article. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 14:32, 1 January 2009 (EST)

Tea and coffee chains
Starbucks, as stated in the article, is not the only national chain of coffee and tea, as also Café&Té operates in the main cities. I am pretty sure there may be one or two more chains, however.

Also, I think Starbucks is far from being only a place for tourists. Spain is indeed one of the most important european markets of the company and I usually find them crowded with both tourists and locals.

rental deposit
> Keep in mind that rental companies hold a large deposit ( up to 2000 Euros ) for vehicle rentals.

We need more specifics on this warning, as it counter to my own experience. Where, which rental company and for what car; did you provide a credit card or was it cash-only deposit and payment? I reverted it for a while from the article. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 01:54, 18 November 2010 (EST)

Get in entry requirements
In case anyone wants to know the source of my edits to include information about the visa exemption for 'Annex II' nationals to work during their 90 day visa-free entry, see this European Union document -. 195.195.166.57 17:41, 30 May 2011 (EDT)

Bullfighting
Whatever left-wing self-righteous individual that keeps changing the section on bullfighting, PLEASE STOP. If you're from Catalonia, and you want people to know that in Catalonia it's outlawed update it in the Catalonia section. Whatever. In REAL SPAIN, it's a cultural heritage icon, and all of us have grandfathers that would think twice before giving the thumbs up to ban it. I say real Spain because it seems that every year, you pass a law to distance yourselves further and further away from Madrid.

Don't use words like "MOST" people to describe the attitude of Spaniards and bullfighting. It is a polemic issue, but just because you feel it to be a certain way, doesn't mean all of us agree with you. And yes, I am a young (26 yr old) Spaniard.

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/english/Bullfighting/is/caught/on/the/horns/of/national/dilemma/elpepueng/20110131elpeng_4/Ten —The preceding comment was added by 207.91.13.131 (talk • contribs)
 * Hmmm.. I've always regarded most of our cultural writing as overly time-consuming relative to its importance to the traveller.  --(WT-en) Inas 19:55, 14 December 2011 (EST)

Moving around by bicycle is not accurate
Quote- "Spain is heaven for cycling, judging by how many cyclists you can see in the cities. Cycling lanes are available in mid-sized and large cities. It must be taken into account that Spain is the second most mountainous country in Europe, and the mountains and hills are from coast to coast. For example, Madrid is between 600 and 700 metres above sea, so if you travel through it by bicycle you have to be in a good shape."

-I am Spanish, and I have lived in different areas of the country- Spain has some (few) cycling lanes in the mid-sized and big cities, but by no means comparable to what you can find in central Europe, so this is an overstatement. I am not sure where this contributor read that Spain is "the second most mountainous country in Europe"! but I seriously question that. Spain has a varied range of mountains, but it has a huge central plain that takes over the vast majority of its surface. A different question is how on measures "mountainousity" and compares countries to one another. This is very vague and inaccurate I think. The example of Madrid being between 600 and 700 metres above see is complete non-sense. Even if it that is the correct altitude level for Madrid, the city is famous for how flat it is in general, with very subtle altitude variations over a huge area. Besides, I challenge anyone to notice whether they are cycling at 0m or at 700m above sea level. There is no need to be "fit" for that. The concentration of oxygen is nearly the same (if it was not for the very high level of polution that you will usually find in Madrid)

152.62.109.57Antuan

I just modified it 152.62.109.57Antuan