Talk:South Africa/Archive 2005-2011

It's a travel guide, not a history book
The duration of apartheid is immaterial. 168.210.90.180 03:29, 23 Jun 2005 (EDT)


 * Jeez. We get lots of complaints when we leave historical detail out of say Paris, and complaints when we put it in for South Africa or heaven forbid Cambodia.


 * The consensus has been that a little historical overview is generally a good thing for travellers. Do you complain to Lonely Planet about their coverage of history? -- (WT-en) Mark 04:02, 23 Jun 2005 (EDT)


 * I agree. My impression is that appartheid is usually "immaterial" to those who are ashamed of it... -- (WT-en) Riaan

municipal demarcations
The split of the provinces isn't applied into municipal districts as demarcated by Governement. Is this intentional (I'm a newbie) ? If so, what is the policy? (WT-en) Yzerfontein 03:21, 28 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * The policy is that Project:The traveller comes first, so if municipal districts make no sense from the traveller's point of view then we find a better way to split things. Whether this is the case or not for SA is, of course, up to debate. (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:51, 31 Jan 2006 (EST)

So if I forexample have a stamp from Estonia on my last page on my passport, does this meen that I can't travel to SA? This stamp is actually the only stamp I have in my passport.. so 213.114.173.72 16:28, 18 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Make sure you have 2 blank pages back to back in your passport and that it is valid for at least six more months or you will be sent back! 
 * No, as long as you have two blank pages facing each other you will be fine (WT-en) Chrisboote 08:14, 16 November 2006 (EST)

Personal experiences, hence totally NOT NPOV 8-)
I've travelled to ZA every year for the last decade (sometimes twice a year)


 * I always fly into Cape Town first, and almost always leave from there
 * I've always flown BA (all four classes), and never had any problems except with the heat in the plane on return journeys - the crew have always been superb, yes they are sometimes late, but show me an airline that isn't!
 * I only tip parking attendants on return to the car - and make sure they know that. Tipping is small change for most Europeans & Americans - R10 per hour seems to be generous
 * ALWAYS claim back the VAT. Flying out of Cape Town it is simple & efficient - so what if you don't get all the VAT back, it still pays for your meal while you're waiting
 * Leave plenty of time - possibly as much as 2 hours for 1st & Club class, 3 for economy and economy plus - when checking in for international flights at Cape Town, security staff are slow.....
 * For domestic flights, however, 30 mins is fine (unless you have reams of luggage)
 * Best internal flights are from Nationwide
 * Like every city in the world, Cape Town has its rough bits, but there is lots to do in the safe areas - which is most of it
 * DEFINITELY drive along the [Garden Route] if you have time
 * Do not miss Boulders Beach near Simonstown, the penguins are very friendly. If you go to the south beach, there is no walkway, and you can paddle & swim with them
 * Robben island is fascinating, and you do NOT have to be a diehard BP fanatic to enjoy the tour
 * Car hire is very very very cheap compared with most of Europe - it's only expensive if you book in advance with foreign currency (WT-en) Chrisboote 09:37, 8 August 2007 (EDT)


 * Glad you enjoy South Africa. Nice post, Might not be NPOV, but I definitely need to remember to add that bit about claiming the VAT to the money section. As a South African I did not even think about that. -- (WT-en) Nick Roux 08:32, 16 November 2006 (EST)

External links removed
I have removed some additional external links to accommodation aggregations after receiving private email complaints from User:(WT-en) Dining-OUT. Some of those were actually stuff that I added when I just started working on wikivoyage, not for the importance of the specific link itself, but simply as examples.

I think I now better understand why the external link policy is enforced so strongly, once there is one external link it sets a presidency and every one else think they have the right to add links to their own sites as well; a quick way for wikivoyage to go downhill and become just another list of links to links. (WT-en) NJR_ZA 15:49, 24 January 2007 (EST)
 * Yep, becoming a link directory is one of out non-goals. Adding external links are a Project:Slippery slope... (WT-en) Maj 18:45, 24 January 2007 (EST)

Climate Data
It will be nice to add Template:ClimateCelsius to all South African cities, but please do not use any data from SAWS for this purpose.

Free political boundaries, climate data and a free too view the climate at any point can be found at Diva-GIS

South African Weather Service
Use of the climate data from SAWS is now restricted under chapter 9 of the S A Weather Service Act (8 of 2001). The data prior to 2001 should however be in the public domain. I have send an email request clarification on copyright of data prior to the introduction of the act and will post here when I receive a reply.

CHAPTER 9

GENERAL AND MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS

Intellectual property rights

26. (1) The Weather Service retains the intellectual property rights on any data, meteorological and advisory services, computer programs, inventions, discoveries and improvements generated by the Weather Service in the fulfilment of its functions.

(2) Any data, information, advisory services and meteorological services of the Weather Service provided to a client or customer may not be provided by that client or customer to a third party or be distributed without the written consent of the Chief Executive Officer.

(3) Any use of material by way of publication, including radio, television or other such medium, must acknowledge the Weather Service's contribution.

-- (WT-en) NJR_ZA 15:39, 16 February 2007 (EST)

South African hierarchy
I'm busy restructuring the hierarchy for South African articles

Reasons for the restructure

 * Some articles list far to many cities/sub articles while others list far to few
 * Some places are listed as if they belong to more than one region
 * A closer match to the official tourist regions will make more sense to travelers as roadsigns and other tourist information will match what we have here

Hierarchy breakdown

 * Eastern Cape
 * Karoo Heartland
 * Settler Country
 * Wild Coast
 * Sunshine Coast
 * Garden Route


 * Free State


 * Gauteng, see Talk:Gauteng


 * KwaZulu-Natal (Province map with regions created.)
 * Battlefields
 * Elephant Coast
 * Midlands
 * North Coast
 * South Coast
 * Ukhahlamba Drakensberg
 * Zululand


 * Limpopo


 * Mpumalanga


 * North West
 * Southern (North West Province)
 * Bojanala
 * Central (North West Province)
 * Bophirima in the west


 * Northern Cape
 * Diamond Fields
 * Green Kalahari
 * Kalahari
 * Karoo
 * Namakwa


 * Western Cape (Map: Province map with regions created, Text: Some of the text is not in the correct level yet (Cape Town carries a log of info that need to me moved either higher or lower in the herarchy), A a route62 itinerary might also be a good idea for the region)
 * Cape Peninsula (Map: created, but the Blaauwberg Coast requires more detail (roads & towns))
 * Blaauwberg Coast
 * Cape Town
 * Atlantic Seaboard
 * False Bay
 * Cape Karoo
 * Cape Winelands
 * Breede River Valley
 * Little Karoo
 * Garden Route
 * West Coast
 * Swartland
 * Cape Town
 * Overberg
 * Cape Agulhas

--(WT-en) NJR_ZA 14:30, 7 March 2007 (EST)

9 Cities
This cities list could use parsing&mdash;there shouldn't be more than 9 listed on the page. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:03, 17 January 2008 (EST)


 * Agreed, it's been slowly growing. I'll have trimmed it down to 9 with what I believe to be most important to the traveler and fairly distributed across the country. --(WT-en) Nick 00:34, 18 January 2008 (EST)


 * Thanks&mdash;will steal your wisdom for the Russian version now ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 03:33, 18 January 2008 (EST)

Quick language question (Swept from the Travellers Pub)
In South Africa we use the name geyser for a house's hot water heater. I suspect this is a South African oddity like calling traffic lights robots. What name does the home water heating system go by in other countries? --(WT-en) Nick 14:41, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * Either water heater or boiler in the US. But, water heaters are called geysers in India as well. Though I've never heard the term used in England, it might be a British English thing. --(WT-en) Wandering 15:09, 1 February 2008 (EST)
 * Thanks, I think I'll keep to using water heater then. --(WT-en) Nick 15:47, 1 February 2008 (EST)

witblits / mampoer
"It's extremely high in alcohol content and packs a lethal blow." Is it really lethal, or is that gross, ill-considered hyperbole? 24.209.143.239 03:32, 9 March 2009 (EDT) USer
 * Witblits and mampoer are simply very strong spirits. They aren't lethal unless ingested in inordinate volumes, just like any strong spirit such as vodka would be.41.223.60.60 12:18, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

Moved non-hotel links
Moved links from sleep/hotel section: either no hotels or not nationally operating hotels. (WT-en) Babbelas 08:22, 13 May 2009 (EDT)
 * From R850.00 per person sharing
 * Find your accommodation and book your stay.
 * Choose from Full board, DB&B or BB
 * Large choice of accommodation from budget to splurge, self catering to full service

South Africa World Cup 2010
swept in from the pub

World Cup starts in a few months and while the SA articles are mostly in good condition the surrounding countries are not. Most of the countries already have massive amounts of advertising going on in SA with a couple even changing visa rules for the duration due to expected tourist load so it seems like it might be worthwhile to get some key articles in usable condition before the event. I am working on Mozambique right now and will be adding more to the various articles but there is a lot of work that needs to be done. A short list of what I think should be looked at with priority:

(WT-en) greap 11:16, 16 November 2009 (EST)
 * Botswana - Country outline, Okavango Delta, Maun (Gateway to the Okovango Delta), Gaborone and Chobe_National_Park
 * Zimbabwe - Country outline, Bulawayo, Great_Zimbabwe, Victoria_Falls_(Zimbabwe) and Victoria_Falls
 * Namibia - Fish_River_Canyon_Park, Sossusvlei, Spitzkoppe, Etosha_National_Park

Car rental agencies
I moved all of these out of the article. No required in my view, they clog up an otherwise good article and are a spam magnet. If anyone disagrees please say so, otherwise delete all in 2 weeks.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 13:08, 19 March 2010 (EDT)
 * all now deleted. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 12:09, 2 April 2010 (EDT)

South Africa a country, a city; a directory or an travel guide?
Listings shouldn't be listed in country articles (I believe airline listings are exceptional as well as Tourism listings etc.), listings should be listed in city/town articles and why does it have an outline template when it looks usable or has a star potential (stated before) even though it needs organizing. -(WT-en) SnappyHip 19:16, 21 March 2010 (GST)edited again at 19:20, 21 March 2010 (GST)


 * To be usable all major cities and other destinations need to be at least usable as well and the most important attractions should be described in See Section, see Project:Country guide status, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 11:28, 21 March 2010 (EDT)

Phone numbers
Right now, lots of phone numbers have a "(0)" appearing after the country code. I don't know what's required to dial local, but per Project:Phone numbers, I would think the "0" can be put into the Contact section. I have changed some of the formatting for listings towards the top of the page. Any info. on those who know would be helpful. (WT-en) Zepppep 14:23, 8 July 2011 (EDT)
 * I removed the parentheses and didn't put a space between it and the area code, since according to Contact, the "0" is needed when dialing several cities. If I've done this in error, pls feel free to revert or let me know! (WT-en) Zepppep 15:03, 8 July 2011 (EDT)