Talk:Slovenia

Burek
Regardless of whether bureks are Slovenian or not, the fact is that they are certainly widely available throughout the country (and I recommend the little joint in front of Ljubljana's train station). So please don't delete this... instead, feel free to add 'really' Slovene food.

Now, the Central vs Eastern Europe debate is another thing, I happen to agree with you but please continue the discussion under Talk:Europe before making any changes. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:47, 16 Nov 2004 (EST)

Research links removed from article
These external links were removed from the article, as they did not meed the external links guidelines, but may assist contributors. -- (WT-en) Huttite 00:59, 18 Jan 2006 (EST) a part of staying safe was modified since it some people might find it offensive
 * Sinfo - Slovenia Information

Some more:

Dovje Mojstrana

 * [mailto:radka@telemach.net Accommodations in Triglav National Park]

Kranjska Gora

 * Hotels in Kranjska Gora [mailto:triglav@centrum.cz Emailus]

Bled

 * local tourist organisations

Cyrillic and Russian?
Cyrillic alphabet, while it was taught to "middle" generation (parts of Yugoslavia used cyrillic), is not used anywhere, so people have mainly forgot it. Russian language was not taught, and while it is also a slavic language it deviates quite a bit. Some basic words are common (across many slavic languages), but don't expect too much.

So... this info doesn't seem too useful, and can be deceiving.


 * This section was becoming a mess in which most information was given at least twice. I cleaned it up and, in agreement with the above, watered down the understanding of Slavic languages to "communication is possible, but requires effort". I removed cyrillic alphabet which is read by Serbian and Macedonian minority at best, and by those speaking Russian, which is not commonly taught any more. (WT-en) JanezDemsar 02:19, 21 August 2010 (EDT)

Advertisements?
An inside tip would be Adam Ravbar beer, which is usually hard to find anywhere except in their small brewery (located in Domžale, a town about 10 km north of Ljubljana). Is this allowed here? I mean... it's not some very popular beer. Never heard of it until now. OTOH, one can find smaller breweries here and there.


 * "Allowed"? It's a free country website, and it does say that it's an "inside tip". (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:53, 25 September 2008 (EDT)


 * I'd agree^. Wikipedia is supposed to be as objective as possible. We shouldn't try to give aside hints to the reader... —The preceding comment was added by Bradleyswissman (talk • contribs)
 * This isn't Wikipedia. LtPowers (talk) 19:45, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Talking badly about...
"Slovenians also (like many Europeans) don't like American foreign policy, their way of living or habits, so be careful when you discuss European-American relations. Most people lived a good life during the socialist era, so try not talk badly about Cuba, Venezuela or Russia, since Slovenians tend to be pretty sensitive to this subject."

This is somewhat oddly written. I've lived here for 23 years and never got into a heated argument with people about any of those countries. While Slovenes tend to have a better opinion about Russia than for example, Czechs, Poles and other nations which had direct contact with Russia, the vast majority really doesn't have either a very positive or a very negative opinion about Cuba or Venezuela. I think this part of the text is quite unnecessary. 94.127.29.247 14:12, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

re: I think slovenians are very reserved / sensitive and won't talk about more 'socialist' systems in those countries. But if you force us to then discussion can be very heated as we are still very divided into those in favour of partisans who often liked old socialist system and the other half that viewed it as a brutal regime. It all goes to partisans and domobrans and both view each other as traitors/collaborators.

In this view I've changed text on the page from Nazi-collaborator factions to axis-sponsored anti-communist reactionary factions - hear me why: 1) Italy was arming these units too 2) domobrans collaborators were almost unique in that they were not true collaborators as its base wasn't fascist as most collaborators in other countries were but rather an answer to communist terror. It's worth mentioning that even though they are often labelled as collaborators they in some instances helped allied pilots and all of their songs were in slovene even though slovenian language was forbidded under germans which is a sigh of defiance. Also, not one of these songs had any fascist connotations, most were about fight against partisans/communists or about our country (check youtube if you want). As you can see those were dificult times, people were forced to choose between two evils - between collaboration with germany to fend off communists or vice-versa. So I hope you'll agree I had no foul intentions and that I haven't changed history section or misrepresented domobranci (I think axis-sponsored anti-communists is still descriptive enough that you can form an objective opinion), I've only made it so that the text is now respectful of both sides. :)


 * Agreed. Respect sections, unfortunately, tend to attract a lot of silliness. Please feel free to remove/reduce any other silliness you see. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:31, 26 April 2009 (EDT)

Regions
Ten top-level regions seem like a few too many for Slovenia. I've cut it down to six -- let me know if you any thoughts, objections, etc. Cheers - (WT-en) Shaund 00:41, 23 March 2010 (EDT)


 * I deem these good (as they match what can easily be used for travel. As they do not match the official regions/areas in Slovenia: Would it be wise to add a note about that (e.g. "For travel purposes, we have divided the information into the following regions (unofficial):" or so)?
 * Sure. My phrasing would be "the following unofficial regions", but that's a trivial difference. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:50, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Respect
''As in other countries of ex Yugoslavia, in Slovenia there is still sexual segregation. Women are paid miserably less for same work than men. Slovenian men mostly act like gentlemens, but also sublime towards women at the same time. Women shouldn't express their feministic opinion too much, since Slovenian women like their position (nevertheless, they're being spoiled) and men don't want to give too much power to women. Information that Slovenian parliament has the less female senators in whole Europe in strong enough.''

This text seems pointless -- women shouldn't express their feminist opinion or ... they get unwelcome at best and beaten at worst, or what?! There's no real advice or information for a traveler here, and nothing of it is substantiated. I see no causal relation to Yugoslavian past, "segregation" is a badly chosen word, "miserably less" is not so much less (and probably not any different than anywhere else in developed world -- prove otherwise), women "like the situation" since they are being "spoiled" (source?), and the last sentence is pretentious and, besides, grammatically wrong (as some other parts, too, like "gentlemens"). I know this site is not as strict as Wikipedia, but I still think that this paragraph is unsubstantiated forum-like chatting. (WT-en) JanezDemsar 16:00, 8 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree that this entry had no value for travelers. Our respect sections for some reason attract a lot of pointless ranting, and "advice" that would apply to much anywhere in the world (see Respect). Please do feel free to trim any other unnecessary or unhelpful prose from that section! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:09, 8 August 2010 (EDT)


 * I did so - it was too long and made it appear that there is a civil war going on between east and west, so everybody stay away or else. (It actually doesn't go beyond telling jokes about one another, except when it comes to football fans). Since we have an active editor adding references to Maribor and Balkan all over the page, here's a list of changes (I would ask the abovementioned colleague to join the discussion before reverting the changes, I really don't intend to enter an editor war):
 * I removed the prose about difference in "openness" in eastern and western regions and other thoughts on cultural diversity between Ljubljana and Maribor (including a photo of Maribor hooligans), and warnings about not getting into discussions about Ljubljana and Maribor. All of this is completely subjective (I live in Ljubljana and don't sense any of these) and certainly irrelevant for travelers.
 * I removed the paragraph about giving sits to elderly on the buses as this hardly specific for Slovenia.
 * I merged the paragraphs about discussing Soviet bloc, communism, Eastern Europe into a single shorter paragraph about "interesting" topics.
 * I merged the paragraphs about border issues with Croatia and the Slovenian civil war into a single paragraph on taboo topics.
 * I simplified the paragraph on LBGT. The original text was also rather unclear; I believe that the current version gives an objective description, although I'm not an expert.
 * I removed the paragraph on racism since there is nothing specific about Slovenia here; as elsewhere in Europe, city people are used to seeing tourists of all kinds, while in villages any foreigner would get curious looks.
 * In practical advices, I removed the one about using formal form (vikanje, as "Sie" instead of "du" in German or "vous" instead of "tu" in French). Anybody who can speak Slovenian, knows about it, others will just get confused.
 * I also removed a tip about applauding on the planes; I travel a lot and haven't heard it for a decade
 * I simplified other practical advices
 * I changed Slovene back to Slovenian, since the latter form is preferred to avoid bad associations
 * In general, I didn't add much, the intention was to make the existing text more focused and less wordy.
 * (WT-en) JanezDemsar 10:25, 10 August 2010 (EDT)

Buy: tipping
Section on tipping claimed that tipping is expected from foreigners, while most Slovenians don't tip. This is not true: I give tips or at least round the sum up, and so do my friends (you'd seem a jerk if you didn't). Besides, there is no difference in expectations from foreigners and "domestic" guests, as the sentence would suggest. The remark however reappeared in two days, even accompanied with an exclamation mark and without "most". Mariborko, given that we cannot agree on the fact, I suggest removing it. (WT-en) JanezDemsar 07:09, 10 August 2010 (EDT)

Horse meat
Can someone add some information on horse meat in Slovenian cuisine? I heard that horse meat is quite standard in Slovenia, but it is not mentioned in this article. I'd like to try some of these dishes, but I don't know any names. 94.209.60.174 09:09, 23 May 2011 (EDT)

Get in entry requirements
In case anyone wants to know the source of my edits to include information about the visa exemption for 'Annex II' nationals to work during their 90 day visa-free entry, see this European Union document -. (WT-en) Yeahtravel 09:37, 31 May 2011 (EDT)

Laibach
Anonymous user keeps deleting this box because "lyrics from disco bands don't belong in a travel guide". I believe it's an interesting (though touty) bit and fits here per tone. Thoughts? Jjtk (talk) 09:54, 25 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Really, you think this stuff belongs in a travel guide? How is this useful to someone visiting Slovenia in any way? It's like putting a discography of Rammstein on the travel page of Germany. It simply doesn't belong here, period. —The preceding comment was added by 190.97.204.37 (talk • contribs)


 * That's why it's in a sidebar (or "infobox" in our parlance); it's tangential information of interest to certain travelers who want to know interesting factoids about a place. LtPowers (talk) 18:38, 25 January 2013 (UTC)


 * So, you are saying we should add a factoid-infobox about Rammstein on Germany's travel page? —The preceding comment was added by 190.97.204.37 (talk • contribs)


 * No, I'm saying we could, if there was something interesting (and at least tangential to travel) to say about them. LtPowers (talk) 21:19, 1 February 2013 (UTC)


 * But that's exactly my point. This Laibach disco band is about as travel-related in Slovenia as Rammstein is travel-related in Germany. These bands have nothing to do with travel at all, not to mention that Laibach disco band isn't even nearly as popular in Slovenia as Rammstein is popular in Germany. So, if we want to keep this factoid on Slovenia's travel guide article, we must definitely put one up on Germany's travel guide article as well. —The preceding comment was added by 190.97.204.37 (talk • contribs)


 * I'd say keep this. I'm a different generation & have no idea who Rammstein are. but this seems an interesting aspect of Slovenia and I can well imagine travellers wanting to hear this band during a visit. Pashley (talk) 23:11, 1 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I'd say Laibach is the best known band from Slovenia - the only one I heard about and even read in books (Martin Pollack, pretty well known writer in Central Europe had a chapter on them in one of his books). So they're "culturally significant". Keep. Jjtk (talk) 09:29, 2 February 2013 (UTC)


 * So because Martin Pollack mentioned that disco band, it should be kept in a travel article? Really? The same Martin Pollack, the so-called "writer", who doesn't even have an article on English Wikipedia. That to me sounds as credible and even more importantly, justifiable, as some local village gossip. And no, Laibach is not nearly as popular in Slovenia as Rammstein is popular in Germany. Sorry, but that's a fact. I can't believe you keep arguing that disco music should be brought up in a travel article, it seems I've just entered a bubble that you guys live in. Isn't internet great? —The preceding comment was added by 190.97.204.37 (talk • contribs)


 * Have you looked at some of our other travel guides? We post interesting factoids like this all the time.  LtPowers (talk) 19:08, 2 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Like I've said, let's post a factoid about Rammstein on Germany's travel page. People visiting Germany will be interested to know that Rammstein is what defines the German culture, like Laibach is what defines the culture in Slovenia. By the way, I'm being sarcastic. —The preceding comment was added by 190.97.204.37 (talk • contribs)
 * Where does it say that Laibach defines Slovenian culture? LtPowers (talk) 16:57, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * The comparison between Rammstein and Laibach doesn't make much sense to me, as Laibach is perhaps the largest (or, at least, the most well-known) modern musical export of Slovenia, while Rammstein, no matter how popular an act it might be (and likely moreso than Laibach overall), plays no such role for Germany. (Admittedly having no interest in industrial music, I had heard about both of the bands before this discussion; yet I can name at least five other bands performing various genres from Germany without even having to think, but no other from Slovenia.) Vidimian (talk) 18:23, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

How is Laibach "largest musical export of Slovenia" and who is the exporter if it's indeed such a significant industry? And after all this nonsense from that "factoid", you still think it belongs in a travel article. Really, if you want people to laugh each time they read this article, then go ahead and put it back. Also, Rammstein is a lot more known than Laibach worldwide, so it would make much more sense to put a Rammstein factoid on the Germany's travel article than putting Laibach's on this one. —The preceding comment was added by 190.97.204.37 (talk • contribs)


 * Please check Google for others who consider Laibach a Slovene export. I don't mean to be blunt but Laibach simply is a "big" band from a "small" country, with a unique imagery to say the least, and even having a "kunst" unto itself — which makes it remarkable enough to be mentioned in the article in my opinion. I don't really get why it's such a big deal. And yes, we actually want people to "laugh" (in the positive sense of the word) when reading this article, or all others on Wikivoyage, for that matter; please see Tone for more on this. Vidimian (talk) 22:35, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * If 190.97 is now questioning the factual basis of the infobox, that's an entirely different question than the one I've been addressing. LtPowers (talk) 00:54, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Consensus seems to be leaning towards keeping the infobox, so I'm restoring it. Vidimian (talk) 18:14, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

The thing in brackets behind the regions
It seems weird to have those things in brackets behind the regions. We usually only do that if we group a bigger number of regions or if there are well known subregions of our regions (e.g. the states of the USA), but here neither seems to be the case. Do they need to be there? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:36, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you're talking about. Can you clarify what you mean by "behind"? Powers (talk) 17:41, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
 * "Coast and Karst (Piran, Postojna)" - the thing in brackets behind the name of the regions is what I should have said. Apparently it is a city or several cities in any given region. Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:53, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, yes. Those lists should be exhaustive lists of constituent sub-entities, not simply examples of localities.
 * As an aside, "behind" as a preposition that refers to location is somewhat ambiguous in English when the subject is textual. "after" or "following" would be much clearer.
 * -- Powers (talk) 14:36, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

spam/advertising and touting by fanboys in a country travel article
Adding infoboxes and a whole paragraph of advertisement for one single musical band violates both NPOV and Wikivoyage:Don't tout and to most readers looks like in your face spam/advertising. Also urging travelers to attend their concerts clearly violates the Wikivoyage policy on touting.

I'm not opposed to mention Laibach, along with some other musical bands and musicians, in a sentence in the article, but adding infoboxes and paragraphs eulogizing the band looks like spam that fanboys would do.

Reading the article Music of Slovenia on wikipedia, I did not get the impression from the article that Laibach stands out that much in Slovenian music to merit this kind of advertisement in a travel article. This is what the article says "Laibach [ˈlaɪbax] is a Slovenian avant-garde music group strongly associated with Nazism, martial, and neo-classical musical styles. Laibach formed June 1, 1980 in Trbovlje, Slovenia (then Yugoslavia). Laibach represents the music wing of the Neue Slowenische Kunst (NSK) art collective, of which it was a founding member in 1984. The name "Laibach" is the German name for Slovenia's capital city, Ljubljana." So they have certainly some importance within Slovenian industrial music, but not necessarily of Slovenian music in general.

It would be as absurd as adding an infobox on Rammstein in the Germany country article, along with lenghty paragraphs claiming that they are the best or most noteworthy band of Germany. Because it seems to be in your face advertising, I think it should be reduced to about one sentence, and other musicians and bands should also be mentioned. --124.123.62.243 04:54, 1 April 2019 (UTC)


 * On the face of it, what you're saying sounds reasonable. Side point, though: NPOV is expressly not Wikivoyage policy. Instead, we have Be fair, which is not quite the same. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:25, 1 April 2019 (UTC)