Talk:Singapore/Archive 2003-2012

Conscription
No mention of the military or mandatory military service?


 * Not yet. Do you have something to add that would be appropriate for a travel guide? Plunge forward! --(WT-en) Evan 23:48, 21 Jan 2006 (EST)

Districts
CBD isn't an acronym. An acronym uses initial letters to make a word which can be pronounced such as NATO. CBD is an initialism. But initialism-loving is unconventional. Change to abbreviation-loving? Pedantic but this article is supposed to be perfect.

Understand
"but the Switzerland of Asia is for many a welcome respite from the poverty, chaos and crime of much of the continent."

Poverty, yes; chaos and crime, no. That's Africa. Just look up the numbers.

Languages
The article, albeit well-written, states "the most common language [of Singapore] is English." Although it is true, to a certain extent, that English is perhaps the lingua franca of the many different races on the island, and used in administrative purposes etc., the most commonly-spoken language is Mandarin Chinese. The CIA World Factbook thingy supports this: Mandarin 35%, English 23%, Malay 14.1%, and I think this should be reflected in the article, simply because it has the greatest number of speakers. I'm going to include this information somehow in the article; feel free to revert if it seems POV or whatever.


 * Sorry, I had to revert your edit. It's simply incorrect to state that 23% are "able" to speak English: the true percentage is virtually 100%, and English (or, rather, Singlish) is the lingua franca of the entire population.  Mandarin is force-fed to the Chinese in school, but it's not anybody's mother tongue and even most Singaporean Chinese feel uncomfortable speaking it, while Malays and Indians generally don't speak it at all.  Above all, for the traveler (our audience), English is by far the most useful language to known in Singapore and fully sufficient for, well, everything. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:40, 13 Nov 2005 (EST)

Just something to highlight here. I wouldn't say it's true that most Singaporean Chinese are uncomfortable with Mandarin. It is just that most top politicians come from English schools and might not be very comfortable with Mandarin. However, if you bring in the middle to lower income group, they are usually more comfortable with Mandarin than English. However, for those under the age of 50, they usually would know enough English to communicate with the non-Chinese so unless you approach somebody who looks elderly, you usually would be able to get by with English.

-

It is hilarious what kind of misinformation goes on this article. I have no doubt many of these laughable points such as "great fines for not flushing toilet"(haha) to "alcohol is expensive"(2sgd for a can of thai beer in the supermarkets) to "Mandarin is the most common language in Singapore"(haha) are written by foreigners who have little knowledge of Singapore.

"However, for those under the age of 50, they usually would know enough English to communicate with the non-Chinese"

"It is just that most top politicians come from English schools and might not be very comfortable with Mandarin. "

English schools? Every mainstream school in Singapore is an English school. Singaporeans are educated in English their entire life as their native language. They sit for exactly the same exams as the British during their primary and secondary school education. If you are Singaporean and you cannot speak English, you are illiterate. It is as simple as that.

The ones whom cannot speak English are mostly uneducated or non english speaking foreigners (whom by the way make up 42% of singapore)

Get in
I was under the impression that Singapore Immigration Officers were granting 1 month entry at the airport while issuing 2 weeks permits for other entries. Would that be worth mentioning in this section ?


 * Yes, but the wording needs to be written carefully &mdash; length of stay also depends on your nationality. Also, I doubt very many tourists would want to stay in Sing for over two weeks non-stop anyway... (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:17, 7 Sep 2005 (EDT)

As far as I can see from internet websites, the ferry service from Changi Ferry Terminal to Tanjung Belungkor doesn't seem to have been terminated. Could you please cite the source for this information.


 * Just called 'em up, and yes, the ferry is still operating. Will fix the article. (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:12, 11 November 2007 (EST)

I spent five months in Singapore last year and all EU nationals I could find got stamped 90 days, not 14 or 30, disregarding means of entry or intended length of stay. --94.237.124.195 14:15, 30 December 2010 (EST)

Center vs Centre
Singapore uses British spellings, so it's hawker centre, not "hawker center". Google backs me up with 8590 vs 6120 matches (and 2,630 vs 1,130 if site:.sg is added to the query). (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:29, 6 May 2004 (EDT)


 * Fair enough. I don't have the time to get into an edit war! --(WT-en) Nzpcmad 03:59, 8 May 2004 (EDT)~

Prostitution
Prostitution is legal in six legally designated zones (incl. Geylang). Streetwalking, however, is not. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:06, 20 May 2004 (EDT)
 * I have removed the quotes around 'women' in this paragraph, as the implication that transsexual women are not real women is considered highly offensive by most trans people. 62.253.240.4 21:08, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I suspect most whoremongers would be rather offended to find that their pre-op "woman" has a penis... but whatever. (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:21, 10 April 2008 (EDT)

Wow! Great Work!
I just have to say what a great guide this is! I'm totally impressed with how useful and well written it is-- very clear and clean. An example for us all! (WT-en) Majnoona 15:46, 25 Jun 2004 (EDT)


 * I live here and I think this section is just getting started...! (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:59, 26 Jun 2004 (EDT)

NPOV

 * Every dimwit editor who sees himself as the source of all dreary blanc-mange plain porridge unleavened literature, licks his guillotine and eyes the neck of any author who dares to speak above a whisper or write above a nursery rhyme. -Ray Bradbury

I have taken the liberty of reverting the edits of the esteemed Mr. 165.21.154.11. Made under the guise of "NPOV", this included changes like turning the phrase


 * shoppers can bust their baggage allowances in shopping meccas

into


 * shoppers can enjoy themselves in shopping places

"Enjoy themselves" in "places"? Whee. What fun. Actual NPOVing I'm fine with, but this is not Wikipedia &mdash; we don't need to stick to dreary blanc-mange plain porridge unleavened literature, to use Ray's lovely turn of phrase. (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:32, 2 Dec 2004 (EST)


 * Amen. Yes, lively writing is important. --(WT-en) Evan 02:23, 2 Dec 2004 (EST)


 * And again. Sigh. (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:23, 30 April 2006 (EDT)

We use American English here. (WT-en) Sapphire 06:28, 30 April 2006 (EDT)

Star
I like this article lots and routinely refer to it when I need any guidance on what information should go and how it should be formatted. I've rated this a star. I think this should be an uncontroversial choice, but please discuss any issues anyway --(WT-en) Ravikiran 06:17, 20 Nov 2005 (EST)


 * Let me first say that I'm a big fan of this page, and that Maj and I used Wikivoyage's Singapore pages as our sole travel reference when we were visiting there last year. I'd say that along with Paris it is one of the best guides we have.


 * That said, this guide doesn't really have a tourist-style map so you can find different parts of the city and different listed attractions. I know that's unfair, but it really is a travel necessity, especially for a city-state of Singapore's size. I think it takes a real stretch of the imagination to say that you could find the Merlion and Orchard Road using the CIA factbook's Singapore map.


 * I realize that making good maps is very hard. We still haven't worked out a good way to do it. But I think that we have to get there some way. And we know that it can be done. --(WT-en) Evan 12:34, 20 Nov 2005 (EST)


 * I agree with Evan here &mdash; maps are the one thing missing, but they're a big issue. (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:08, 21 Nov 2005 (EST)


 * Apologies for making a reversion (links to maps, pending availability of more appropriate material -> rvt map slew (streetdirectory.com is already linked and there's a MRT map included)) necessary. I appreciate external links are not the preferred solution, but thought a small selection of external resources would be helpful if no "original" content exists and is apparently acknowledged as being unlikely to be forthcoming any time soon. Is it best to now disregard this shortcoming until "original" content becomes available, or are there any alternative interim solutions that can be pursued?


 * The best solution is to fire up that editor and start drawing. =)
 * More seriously, there's already an MRT map on the page itself, and a link to streetdirectory.com in the Addresses section. These should suffice for most needs. (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:52, 21 Nov 2005 (EST)


 * I have a question, if I may, about these maps (which I love, by the way). Are they copyrighted at all? Did you get permission to use them? They're super helpful, and I'd love to include maps like this of my hometown (you know, street maps, public transit maps, that kind of thing), but are we allowed to do it? How did you do it? Was it you, Jpatokal? I guess that adds up to more than just a question; I'd just really love to have maps like this on my hometown's page, but don't want to step on any legal toes doing it. (WT-en) Zephyros 23:57, 30 November 2006 (EST)


 * If you click on the maps you will get more info about them including the authors, source, copyright, and license for reuse. -- (WT-en) Colin 00:15, 1 December 2006 (EST)

From Project:star nominations
So I'd like to nominate Singapore as the first "Huge city" Star -- which means that not only the main article but all its districts need to be in tip-top shape. Note that all listings now use the new HTML listing format, so if they don't display according to the MoS, you can blame Evan, not me. =P Fire away! (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:26, 15 June 2006 (EDT)


 * Support, but I think it lacks one thing &mdash; a map of downtown, something that helps me get from, say, Raffles to People's Park on foot. (WT-en) Pashley 03:23, 21 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Support. This is the template for how to set up a city article.  The map on Singapore/Central looks sufficient for the needs of most travelers (in addition to the many other maps).  Great photos, too. -- (WT-en) Ryan 13:11, 21 June 2006 (EDT)
 * My error, not finding the maps. (WT-en) Pashley 10:58, 22 June 2006 (EDT)
 * No, the guide's error for putting it in a bad place. I've been thinking about ditching the Central sub-region entirely and merging the little info it has to the main page, I'm not sure it adds much value. (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:18, 22 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Support! V comprehensive article (WT-en) Tsandell 15:25, 27 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Support! Excellent article (WT-en) Jan 13:29, 28 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Previous comment removed -- (WT-en) Colin 22:59, 29 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Actually, the stated criteria for a "star" city article require only that any district articles be "guide" quality. When I drafted these criteria, I figured some leniency ought to be given regarding the imperfections of sub-articles.  I haven't had a chance to go through the main article carefully yet, but from what I've seen, perhaps with a little MoS proofreading, it has my support. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 22:20, 29 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Thanks! I'll limit my critique to the actual article then. -- (WT-en) Colin 22:59, 29 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Support, absolutely, great content. --(WT-en) Terence Ong 06:57, 6 July 2006 (EDT)
 * Support. Great one... love the place. -BratX.
 * Support. Awesomely done! 66.9.126.26 19:10, 24 July 2006 (EDT)

Singlish
As you can see from Wikipedia's WikiPedia:Talk:Singlish, this issue is a bit of minefield, so I've just attempted to present and balance two undeniable facts: Hence some odd consequences for the traveller, like it being rather rude to talk to somebody in bad pseudo-Singlish &mdash; the implication is that you think they're not educated. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:19, 14 September 2006 (EDT)
 * 1) Singlish is a language (a creole, to be specific), with its own grammar and vocabulary, not just "broken English" or "bad English"
 * 2) The government dearly wishes it wasn't so, and does its best to force (indoctrinate) people to speak "Good English" (their term, not mine!) and suppress Singlish

It is not for us here to debate whether 'Singlish' is a merely corrupted English or a language of its own. While I respect your views on this matter, I feel that they do not justify the POV expressed. The position of 'Singlish' as language has nothing to do with the use of the loaded word 'indoctrination' to describe a public educational/informative campaign -- a bunch of posters and a few community events pointing out common grammatical deviations from standard English -- similar to campaigns urging the practice of safe sex, non-consumption of illicit drugs or warning of the dangers of second-hand smoke, both in Singapore and elsewhere.

I also do not see why you insist on adorning the term 'good English', which is not in any way uncommon outside of Singapore, with inverted commas while at the same time not doing so to 'Singlish', a neologism not found in any standard English dictionary and likely to puzzle those unaqainted with Singapore.

Newton FC picture
I've rolled back the change of picture -- the previous one gives a good idea of what a hawker center looks like from the inside, while the current one is an overexposed shot of pointy roofs. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:58, 27 December 2006 (EST)
 * Ok, that is actually a kopitiam, not a food centre. (WT-en) Terence Ong 03:35, 27 December 2006 (EST)

Hippies
No Hippies allowed!!!

Have an older freind who was denied entry because of his unkempt appearance. This was back in the 80s when he was commin back from India. He also claims they( immigration) wrote "Hippy" in his passportand told him to wash and get an hair cut if wanted to come back.Has this been relaxed or hippies still not allowed in Singapore. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 70.66.19.20 (talk • contribs)


 * It's been relaxed years if not decades ago. Will add a note. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:20, 28 February 2007 (EST)

Crime
Singapore has a very low crime rate by any standard, and particularly when compared to most of Asia (Malaysia, Thailand, India, China, you name it; Japan/Korea are the main exceptions). Upamanyu, if you have any statistics to the contrary, let's see 'em.

Anyway, the point of those two words is that in Singapore, you can drink a few too many beers and totter down an unfamiliar alleyway with a bulging wallet in your back pocket, and nothing will happen to you. This is a pretty nice thing when you're a tourist (or a resident), and it's not something I'd recommend in any other Asian city. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:32, 4 March 2007 (EST)


 * No one's denying that Singapore's crime rate is very low, in fact, even Korea's crime rate is higher. But the phrase free from the poverty, chaos and crime of Asia makes it sound as if Asia's got a high crime rate and Singapore is an exception. While Singapore indeed has a crime rate lower than the rest of Asia, the continent on-the-whole is pretty safe (can you deny that?) especially when compared to Western ones (both the Americas and Europe). I have no problem if you mention the fact that Singapore has a low crime rate compared to the rest of Asia, but don't use the phrase free from the crime of Asia &mdash; (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 09:50, 4 March 2007 (EST)


 * "The continent on-the-whole is pretty safe"!? This is Asia we're talking about, home to over half of humanity &mdash; do you realize what an absurd assertion that is?  And it's not even saying "free from the crime of Asia", it's saying (exact quote) a welcome respite from the poverty, chaos, and crime of much of the Asian mainland.  Is there poverty, chaos and crime on much of the Asian mainland?  Why, yes, there is, because the three walk hand in hand. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:12, 4 March 2007 (EST)


 * P.S. I know that you're a Singapore fan, but I hope there is some mention about the inhumane way criminals are caned on their asses. (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 09:50, 4 March 2007 (EST)
 * Caning in Singapore is extremely severe and is in violation of the UN Convention on Human Rights recognised by all civilised countries of the world. Caning is considered "cruel, inhumane and unusual punishment". It also violates the clause on "Equality before the law regardless or gender", here women are protected from caning and males are not even for the same crimes such as overstaying a visa. This is clear discrimation based on sex.
 * There is. And I'm not a Singapore fan, my mailbox is just located there.  But I'll take court-ordered canings over lathi-charges and death from torture in detention like they do in India, thank you very much... (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:12, 4 March 2007 (EST)


 * By torture in detention, are you talking about third-degree (that is, torture of prisoners. Well, that happens in pretty much every country, including Singpore, you can ask Michael Fay is you wish). And I'm totally against the concept of lathi-charges, but it was the Brits who started the concept. (alhough it is idiotic of us to continue with it). (WT-en) Upamanyuwiki • (Talk) • 10:39, 4 March 2007 (EST)

I beg to disagree. There is violent crime in Singapore and it is not the case that "you can drink a few too many beers and totter down an unfamiliar alleyway with a bulging wallet in your back pocket, and nothing will happen to you". I have been assaulted by a gang of violent youths in Arab Street. A number of foreigners were attacked this year in Clarke Quay. I agree that the frequency of attacks is much lower than most places in the world, but the nature of the attacks is just as violent and brutal. I would like to add a warning to the SAFETY section regarding Arab Street and Clarke Quay. Last time I edited the wiki it was deleted which is worrying - people need to know to be careful in areas where violent attacks have occurred.

Military service
Discussions about military service for sons of permanent residents goes way beyond our scope as a travel guide. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:09, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

Bus booking engines
Third-party booking sites are not in line with Project:External links. (And it's missing all the big operators anyway.) (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:24, 8 June 2007 (EDT)


 * Sorry, I don't see Easibook running its own buses? (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:30, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

Advertisement allow?
Laundry

Laundromats are few and far between in Singapore, but full-service laundry and dry cleaning shops can be found in every shopping mall. Unfortunately turnaround times are usually upwards of three days unless you opt for express service. Hotels can provide one-day laundry (at a price), whereas hostels often have communal self-service washing machines.

* Systematic Laundromat, Robertson Walk #01-22, ☎ +65-67380031. 11 AM -late. Your basic self-service laundromat.


 * That's not an advertisement, it's a listing. (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:28, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

Respect
One should note that we don't need to list every single niggling taboo &mdash; gifting pigs isn't terribly polite in any culture I know of. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:44, 24 June 2007 (EDT)

I still disagree on the bit about shopkeepers greeting customers. As I commented on my edit, I can't recall walking into a single shop without being greeted. The shops I visited situated mostly in malls around the city (locals shop in malls too, no?), and on top of that I visited some a bit more obscure establishments, such as a couple of martial arts shops, the other one in Geylang. I don't know whether this is due to me obviously being a foreigner, though I did witness locals being subjected to greetings, too. I was curious enough to observe this behaviour. (WT-en) Tsaik 08:44, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
 * Maybe that's because your a foreigner, as you said and the government is trying to increase courtesy levels to attract more tourists. Besides, there is still some colonial hangover and many Singaporeans (especially older ones) still consider European-looking people to be inherently of a higher status than others. Those locals you saw being greeted in more obscure shops are probably regular customers, as I had mentioned. I am from Singapore and I am usually not greeted by shopkeepers whose shops I enter for the first time. (WT-en) Superdog 00:33, 14 April 2008 (EDT)
 * FWIW, I'm chao ang mor and 99.9% of the time I don't get greeted in shops in Singapore. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:01, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

ATMs at the Airport
Would someone who knows be kind enough to add information on ATMs at the airport? I assume they exist and take most standard international cards? Are they easy to find? Any suggestions? [Hope this doesn't seem too picky, but this is something I always look for. Need money for the taxi! Some airports seem to hide them, and last thing I want to do after traveling for 20+ hours is wonder around the airport for 15 minutes trying to find one. OK, maybe not the *last* thing, falling into an open sewer probably ranks higher, but you know what I mean.] Thanks. (WT-en) Jbradfor 17:27, 29 April 2008 (EDT) [Great page, BTW, thanks!]


 * Just follow the signs, or ask around. There are quite a lot of ATMs in the restricted area, and in the public area. (Almost?) all ATMs accept the usual Visa, MC, AMEX, PLUS. Taxis accept credit cards (10 % surcharge), but some of the drivers either want the instant gratification of cash, or don't know how to operate the machine and will claim the machine is broken. If they give you nonsense you can call the taxi company to complain. Alternatively, you can ask at the window first. --(WT-en) Rifleman 82 22:40, 29 April 2008 (EDT)


 * No, it's not just a driver conspiracy -- some cabs genuinely don't have the CC processing gear. If you need a taxi who takes cards, check with the driver, or better yet, ask the dispatcher before boarding. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:29, 30 April 2008 (EDT)


 * I had a hard time finding an ATM that took AMEX at the airport once I was outside customs/security last time I was there (March 2011). I finally found one at the far south end of the atrium near the road. The cab driver had no problem with my AMEX, but I've heard they get upset over it for short trips. I think my cab ride was like $20 or $30. (WT-en) Stewartsoda 10:35, 2 November 2011 (EDT)

Drugs
There was this case where a Nigerian boy was sentenced to death for drug trafficking even though the judge was convinced that he was not aware that the drugs were in his possession. The judge just said that "he should have known and therefore was guilty". I think it's only fair to warn people so they will be careful with their bags.

Rewrote intro and now it has reverted?
I rewrote the intro to Singapore yesterday to make it more interesting and colorful, yet today it has been changed back to the old copy. Can someone let me know the reasons for the revert? --(WT-en) MarinaK 14:31, 3 March 2009 (EST)MarinaK.


 * So, my main problem with your edits to Singapore (and most everywhere else in Wikivoyage for that matter) is that, by and large, you have no idea what you're talking about, so your well-meaning edits introduce errors small and large. Your idea of "interesting and colorful" is also what I suspect most Wikivoyageers consider "advertising copy".  The intro, for example:


 * One of the most enjoyable cities in Southeast Asia, Singapore is efficiently laid out, stylish and innovative, and a melting pot of ethnicities, brewing together one of the world's greatest eating capitals.


 * "One of the most enjoyable cities" is near-meaningless (and, for most travellers, probably wrong).
 * Singapore is not a melting pot -- the races stay strictly apart.
 * Very little about Singapore is "stylish and innovative".
 * "Brewing together" a "capital" is a metaphor too far.


 * Also, it's standard on Wikivoyage to include the tourism office's link in the first line and to bold words of interest. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:52, 3 March 2009 (EST)

I also spent a lot of time uploading new images that were more clear and vibrant but it seems that these have not been changed now? --(WT-en) MarinaK 14:34, 3 March 2009 (EST)MarinaK.


 * The images you uploaded are mostly badly/incorrectly labeled: eg. the "Chinese food" is actually Japanese, "Indian food" shows a northern Indian dish (muttar paneer) almost never eaten here, and your "typical hawker centre" is not, in fact, a hawker centre at all but the very untypically retro-styled Food Republic shopping mall food court. I've fixed the descriptions where I could (although I junked the two food pics above and the totally generic "Drink" pic), but your images are also much too small to print properly... (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:52, 3 March 2009 (EST)


 * Hi Jani. I realize that as an admin and an editor for this Singapore article you have a vested interest in this article, but I have to be honest and I feel that your reply is quite offensive to the point where I feel bullied. I admit my introduction into writing for wikivoyage got off to a bad start but it was more from lack of knowledge then any bad intentions. Your comment that I have 'no idea what I'm talking about' is quite offensive considering that I have worked for many years at a travel publishing company for many years and have had my writing published in travel guides. While I admit my writing style reads like a guidebook, or what you term 'advertising copy', my re-working on the introduction to Singapore was minimal and I still believe made it read as more interesting and colorful. I did not know about keeping the link in to the tourism site so that is my mistake. Your criticism of my introduction is your own opinion though and I'd love to hear from other admins on whether it deserved to be reverted.

The new images I chose were all Creative Commons images from Flickr and I chose them based on my search (eg Chinese cuisine). I did not know about saving images to the original size, I would normally just save the images as they appear, but now that you have pointed this out to me, I am aware of it and thank you for that. I also thank you for writing the captions as I have not done that.

Like any new person I have made many mistakes along the way and am still learning new tips on the way. I take all feedback on board and if someone tells me of a guideline that I did not know about, I adhere to it in the future. However, every mistake I make that you Jani P point out, I feel is harsh and disheartens me to the point where I am unsure if I want to continue. I have enjoyed contributing to wikivoyage and have hoped that I have made some valid contributions but your critiques are making me feel worthless. If I'm taking your remarks out of context Jani then please let me know. I would also like to hear from other admins on this subject as well. --MarinaK.


 * Never been to Singapore, but I also find that your re-write is less substantive and more vague than what was there before, and I think the phrase "brewing together one of the world's greatest eating capitals" is pretty wonky somehow, kind of a mixed metaphor. As for the photos, I wouldn't have any better idea than you for the cuisine. I do prefer the old Drink picture though-- I always prefer a shot of an area of establishments over a shot of a single establishment, particularly if that shot is of an interior that isn't remarkably different from any other similar establishment in the world. Beyond that, I can't really generalize about your contributions on the whole other than to say that I think you make your contributions in good faith. (WT-en) Texugo 01:04, 6 March 2009 (EST)
 * Also, I don't know exactly what your picture labeled "Chinese cuisine" was (ramen?), but if served in Japan, everyone would agree that it is Chinese and not Japanese. (WT-en) Texugo 01:10, 6 March 2009 (EST)


 * You have "enjoyed contributing to wikivoyage" yet my comments "dishearten [you] to the point where I am unsure if I want to continue"?  That takes some chutzpah, given that you're doing this as a paid job, and have been doing so for almost a year!


 * The fact that you're working for a travel publishing company and have had your writing published in travel guides doesn't excuse the fact that you don't know Singapore &mdash; or most of the other places you edit, which is why your talk page is so full of people tearing their hair out. That's not an insult or bullying, it's a simple fact.  (Or am I wrong? How many days have you spent here?)


 * You're paid to edit, so go ahead, please keep on correcting commas and spelling mistakes. But if you start inventing content about places you're not familiar with, don't be surprised when others correct you. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:54, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Country names
Some other country articles include local country names when that name is significantly different from the common English name: Japan/Nihon, Albania/Shqeperise, etc. This is not the case for 新加坡， Singapura or சிங்கப்பூர், all of which are just renderings of -- drum roll -- "Singapore". (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:11, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

Buy section: using credit cards
I think the comment that credit cards are widely accepted needs to be qualified. I had found that while credit card will be accepted almost everywhere in tourist areas (orchard road ect.), once you get away from the main tourist areas this is not the case. I have heard "sorry we don't take credit card" so many times living here. This includes a number of fairly large stores and international chains that i would have expected to take credit card. Should i add this information to the article? (WT-en) Joanna h


 * Can you give a few examples? I've been living here for 6 years now, and for purchases above $20 or so, credit card acceptance seems pretty ubiquitous. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:48, 22 August 2009 (EDT)

I've had it happen in several supermarkets (sheng siong is one), bookstores, 7-11 (even when making large purchases) and some smaller stores. It might vary depending on the area. It is also possible that i've just had an unlucky run, hence why i asked before editing. (WT-en) Joanna h

Journey durations
How long are buses/trains to/from KL? 86.161.34.234 14:16, 22 August 2009 (EDT)

Buses are about 5 hours (WT-en) Joanna h 09:56, 4 January 2010 (EST)

On online maps in Singapore
With regards to the line "A word of warning for other sites: Google Maps for Singapore and the many services that use its data look pretty, but the data does not include HDB blocks and thus searches may result in wildly inaccurate results." in the Addresses section, Google Maps has officially redone their maps for Singapore recently thanks to a collaboration with Singapore's Land Transport Authority to include block numbers and proper postal codes, and even added traffic and streetview data. So should this line be corrected or removed? Likewise, GoThere.sg is another online service that has proper mapping data that could be arguably more accurate than streetdirectory.com with transit information and cost, traffic, streetview, erp etc. Their routing even takes into account the entrances to buildings. So the warning message is no longer applicable? --(WT-en) Jedimdan 00:41, 16 December 2009 (EST)


 * I am not sure any on-line map services should be linked from Wikivoyage and think that section should probably be deleted. See the guideline here. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 01:36, 16 December 2009 (EST)


 * I've long thought that particular guideline is one of the stupidest things on Wikivoyage. Local mapping services are extremely useful, especially in the not-uncommon case that they beat Google Maps handily (as both gothere.sg and streetdirectory.com continue to do). (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:46, 4 January 2010 (EST)

Laundry
Why are laundries being listed in a country article? I thought I should ask before deleting the listings. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 08:04, 2 January 2010 (EST)

Most countries this would be a problem, but i'm not so sure its a bad thing for Singapore given the country is so small (WT-en) Joanna h 23:34, 5 January 2010 (EST)


 * They're listed because they're very limited and quite hard to find in central Singapore. (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:25, 13 January 2010 (EST)

New article for Pulau Ubin?
Pulau Ubin gets a short mention in this article and in the Singapore/East Coast article but I think it could justify an article of its own. It is quite different to the mainland and I think there should be enough to say of interest to tourists to create a good article. I don't know how to set up new articles but if someone else is able to do that i can do some writing and contribute photos (WT-en) Joanna h 07:10, 11 January 2010 (EST)


 * I knew there was camping there and on checking I see there is a lodge as well, so it seems to meet the WT definition of an article. Hang fire for while though and let's garner more opinion as this would require a restructuring of the article. I would be especially interested in the opinion of a certain Mr Patakallio. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 08:10, 11 January 2010 (EST)

There is also bike hire, restaurant, information centre ect. (WT-en) Joanna h 08:35, 11 January 2010 (EST)


 * I don't think Pulau Ubin is even close to needing its own article: there's only one place to stay, which is very inconvenient for visitors from outside Sg, and the "sights" are minimal. The only reason it's an attraction at all is precisely because there is virtually nothing there! (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:15, 13 January 2010 (EST)

Article is filled with major inaccuracies
I think it is very clear that this article is written by foreigners who don't understand Singapore much but for some reason think they are qualified to write a travel guide on it. There are rediculously false assertions in every part of the article. These is just a small sample that I have time to address.

1. Singlish: ''You wan beer or not? -- Dunwan leh, drink five botol oreddi.''

That is broken English not Singlish. And frankly, speaking like that is retarded and illiterate.

2. "Great fines for not flushing toilet"

Not true.

3. "Homosexuality in Singapore is banned. Life imprisonment etc."

Not true. The AG does not prosecute homosexuality and homosexuals are openly allowed into the civil service.

4. "Thanks to nationwide language education campaigns, most younger Singaporeans are, however, capable of speaking standard English when necessary"

Not true. They are educated in Standard Enlgish in school, that is the reason. It has nothing to do with language campaigns. Most heavy Singlish speakers who cannot code switch to Standard Singapore English are those of older generations (who don't even have Primary school or Secondary school education)and some of the younger lowly educated ones.

Once again, you like to take the speech patterns of the uneducated and illiterate and apply it to every Singaporean. Personal agenda perhaps?

4." Like English, the Mandarin spoken in Singapore has also evolved into a distinctive creole and often incorporates words from other Chinese dialects, Malay and English, though all Singaporean Chinese are taught standard Mandarin in school"

No. This is untrue. You have to read up on linguistics to understand what is a creole. A creole is something that is learnt as a first language. This is simply not the case in Singapore Mandarin.

And not all Singaporean Chinese take up Mandarin in school, in fact a lot don't. Many from the older Generation took Malay and cannot write a single word of Chinese. This is very common.

And many in the younger Generation drop Chinese in school as well.

5. "However, many shop signs and restaurant menus are still in traditional Chinese. This, in addition to the popularity of Hong Kong and Taiwanese pop culture and television serials, means that most Singaporean Chinese are also able to read traditional Chinese even if they cannot write it."

There are simply no traditional Chinese signs and menus in Singapore. They are all in simplified Chinese except perhaps for a very very few, which are the rare exceptions rather than the norm.

Many singaporeans Chinese cannot even read and write Chinese (simplified or traditional) much less write traditional chinese.

6. "Try to resist the temptation to sprinkle your speech with unnecessary Singlishisms: you'll get a laugh if you do it right, but it sounds grating and patronizing if you do it wrong. "

A lot of the "heavy Singlish" you are referring to is just broken English spoken by people who are semi illiterate and did not graduate from Primary/Secondary school. But somehow, you tag everything as Singlish and try to push across the image that most Singaporeans speak like that.

Personal agenda perhaps? Singlish has always been frowned upon by Singaporeans and the Sg government alike.

7. "affluent city with a medley of Chinese, Indian and Malay influences "

British influences in Singapore far outweighs any of the above three yet it was not included. When I added it in it was reverted.

Singapore government follows the British westminster system, the laws of Singapore are all based on British common law, the education system in Singapore is exactly the same as the British one (Cambridge O, A levels) save a few differences (mother tongue). English is also the dominant langauge by far in Singapore.

8. Banned in Singapore: "Malaysian Newspapers" "Homosexuality"

Another usual peice of garbage that reflects the overall quality of this article.

Please remember. This is an encycloepedia, base your article on objective facts and not your own imaginative fantasies.

Anyone familiar with Singapore reading the article would find it hilarious with MANY false rediculous assertions. In just one glance, it is VERY obvious the article was written by most probably a foreigner with a serious lack of knowledge about Singapore.

Anyway, it is not worth my time bothering with such bs. The entire article comes off as a fictional story book written by a lobotomised author rather than a travel guide. —The preceding comment was added by User:202.65.245.7 (talk • contribs)
 * Hi! You put much effort in changing a star article today. I had a quick look at Wikipedia and it still says that homosexuality is considered illegal and as well some sexual pratices even though that some liberalisation took place lately. I think you should bring up some sources (e.g. ) to prove your thesis. This article has been written by several outstanding users of Wikivoyage and gone through a intense check process so don't state your opinion, offer at least some proof. (WT-en) jan 09:19, 19 May 2010 (EDT)
 * P.S. My comment relates to the legal issues, concerning the language point i can only tell from my visits that all persons i encountered (service staff, department stores, restaurant etc.) were capable to communicate in English. (WT-en) jan 09:21, 19 May 2010 (EDT)


 * Oh my :). A cross person. Wikivoyage is not an encyclopedia by the way, it is a travel guide. One piece of advice - you might find your points get a better hearing here if you learn a modicum of good manners. Unregistered users who are blatantly rude are rarely taken seriously. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 09:24, 19 May 2010 (EDT)

w:Cenwin88lee, is that you?

Except for the traditional Chinese bit (no idea where that came from, will nuke it), the article is entirely correct. Re: eg. Malaysian newspapers, see Newspaper and Printing Presses Act Sec. 22 -- or just try to find some at your local newspaper stand! (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:44, 7 June 2010 (EDT)

Not really, everything cenwin wrote is true. My wife is Singaporean and I have lived there for 2 decades. You are obviously out to paint Singapore in bad light.

Malaysian newspapers are not banned in Singapore despite what is written on the article. Since you quote the Newspaper Act, maybe you should read it yourself first. The Newspaper Act says you require a permit to distribute Malaysian newspapers, it does not mean they are banned. You can bring them in as long as you do not distribute them. And you can distribute them, you just have to apply for a permit beforehand.

How is that, like almost every bullshit written on that list "banned"?

I second the notion that this travel guide is total bullshit.


 * I'd second (WT-en) Burmesedays comment that discussion likely won't come to any resolution until there is less rudeness. It's easy enough to come to an agreement on what is clearly a grey area without resorting to statements like "I second the notion that this travel guide is total bullshit." -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 16:45, 15 June 2010 (EDT)


 * So Malaysian newspapers are not "banned", they're just not permitted? (o_O)  If you want to convince me they're allowed to be sold in Singapore (= not banned), then I'm sure you can find me one (1) newsstand in Singapore that legally sells Malaysian papers.  Go on, I dare you! (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:30, 16 June 2010 (EDT)

Dude, Malaysian newspapers are not banned and definitely not "not permitted". Is there any evidence showing they are banned? The Newspaper Act which you used yourself shows they are definitely not banned. You can them into Sg for your own reading as long as you do not distribute them. If you want to distribute them, you have to apply for a permit. This applies to all foreign newspapers outside as well, not just to Malaysian ones.

Going by your argument, there are no Bruneian, Indonesian or Canadian newspapers in Singapore as well. Does this mean they are all "banned"? It probably just means there are not enough readers interested in them for a company to consider bringing them in.

As for homosexuality being banned, that is just another pile of b.s. Sg has not prosecuted anyone for being gay for the past 50 years. Gays in Singapore like Alex Au(sp?) and many others openly declare they are gays and they openly come out to campaign for gay rights. They appear on videos, gay campaigns at the speakers corner, and some have even been interviewed by Channelnewsasia. Many of them are given jobs in the civil sector as well. The government of Singapore has said they will not prosecute anyone for homosexual activities and there has indeed been no prosecution for homosexuality for the past 40-50 years.

I would like to see some evidence showing that "even forgetting to flush the toilet will subject you to a great fine". I have not heard of anyone being "greatly fined" for not flushing the toilet during my decades in Singapore. This one is just too damn absurd.


 * Look, the infobox details the letter of the law: chewing gum, satellite dishes, Malaysian newspapers, gay sex, not flushing toilets etc are all banned by the law. Even the toilets: [app2.nea.gov.sg/data/cmsresource/20090316401826867879.pdf] (reg. 16), and fine "not exceeding S$1000" for a first offense (!).  Yes, you and I know they're not really enforced, but the only thing that's absurd is that Singapore keeps them on the law books...


 * And oh, Section 377A (the gay sex ban law) is still actively used to this day, it's just used selectively. See eg.  (2008) and  (2009). (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:19, 17 June 2010 (EDT)

Interesting find. But the case that you cite was a HIV positive man having sex with a minor. And he was not charged under any anti homosexuality laws but for having sex with a minor and also for trying to spread HIV. My money is on you not being able to find a single case of anyone being charged for soley gay sex or gay behaviour within the past 40 years.

The mistake that you are making here is that you are using the maximum penalty instead of the typical penalty to justify your statements such as "great fines for not flushing toilets" "caning for chewing gums" and so on.

I remember Singapore uses the Commonwealth legal system. The laws in Commonwealth countries might write that the maximum penalty for shoplifting is 5 years jail or whatever, but shoplifters are typically sentenced to a slap on the wrist fine or a nominal jail term. This is just how they roll in Commonwealth countries.

Under such Commonwealth legal systems, the law book is only one source of law. Another source of law is called "case law" where precedent cases are treated as legally binding. You might want to look into what "case law" is before writing some really silly stuff about Singapur.

Star?
It seems Singapore should technically be downgraded to guide, as Singapore/Marina Bay is only at usable status. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 14:01, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

Large wodges of text
Since this is a travel guide and not an Encyclopaedia, our "Understand" sections are inevitably going to be shorter than some prefer.

That does not stop us sticking to the rule that children are taught in School in Singapore: "Each theme or topic should have its own paragraph".

Unless someone provides a reason not to, I therefore intend to change some sections so that they look more like this: http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Singapore&oldid=1935282#People for example. -- (WV-en) A l i c e ✉ 18:09, 28 September 2012 (CEST)


 * The section you link is too disjointed. Many of those sentences are on the same "theme or topic" and so belong in the same paragraph.  LtPowers (talk) 15:46, 1 October 2012 (CEST)


 * Singapore is a multi-cultural and multi-racial nation. In the same way that the government features different languages (and writing scripts) Singaporeans try to respect our different communities. This is the section that was wodged together by Globe-trotter's edit; but I have added a number to each paragraph (that was not in the original) for the sake of explanation:

People

1) Singapore prides itself on being a multi-racial country, and has a diverse culture despite its small size. One quarter of Singapore residents are foreigners. The largest group are the Chinese, who form about 75% of the population.

2) Amongst the Chinese, Hokkien, Teochew and Cantonese speakers are the largest subgroups, with Mandarin acting as the lingua franca of the community. Other notable "dialect" groups among the Chinese include the Hakkas, Hainanese and Foochows.

3) Malays, who are comprised of descendants of Singapore's original inhabitants as well as migrants from present day Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei, form about 14% of the population.

4) Indians form about 9% of the population. Among the Indians, Tamils form the largest group by far, though there are also a significant numbers of speakers of other Indian languages such as Hindi, Malayalam and Punjabi.

5) The remainder are a mix of many other cultures, most notably the Eurasians who are of mixed European and Asian descent, and also a handful of Burmese, Japanese, Thais and many others. Slightly over one-third of Singapore's residents are not citizens.

6) There are a large number of Filipinos, many of them working as domestic helpers. Throngs of happily smiling and chattering Filipinas may be seen in public spaces on Sundays when they take their only day off.

7) Singapore is also religiously diverse, with no religious group forming a majority. Religious freedom is guaranteed by the constitution of Singapore. Buddhism is the largest religion with about 33% of the population declaring themselves Buddhist. Other religions which exist in significant numbers include Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Taoism. In addition to the "big five", there are also much smaller numbers of Sikhs, Zoroastrians, Jews, Baha'is and Jains. Some 17% of Singaporeans profess to have no religious affiliation.


 * 1) Is an introductory or leading paragraph
 * 2) Deals with the largest national community - the Chinese
 * 3) Deals with the second largest national community - Malays
 * 4) Deals with the third largest national community - Indians
 * 5) Makes clear that there are a mix of many other cultures and could, I concede, be amalgamated with 6)
 * 7) Deals with religious diversity.
 * Please also remember that we are a Wiki. A logical structure is easier for casual editors to expand upon. -- (WV-en) A l i c e ✉ 20:39, 10 October 2012 (CEST)


 * Indeed, but the rule about new topics is not the only one used in constructing paragraphs. Ideally, as you know, a paragraph should present a logical flow of information, beginning with an introductory sentence or clause, developing the idea, and then perhaps ending with a summary or conclusion.  In this case, of course, we're just presenting a set of facts, so paragraph structure is not as rigid.  Still, though, it's useful to make sure that there aren't too many breaks between related pieces of information.  In this case, the paragraphs you've identified are extremely short, and leaving them as separate paragraphs makes the section read as stilted and disjointed.  It would be better to consolidate some of these into single paragraphs, for flow and readability.  LtPowers (talk) 22:44, 10 October 2012 (CEST)


 * I did not wish to make the section too long. May I expand each paragraph when I have time? -- (WV-en) A l i c <font color="#00EEFF">e <font color="#FF3333">✉ 22:54, 10 October 2012 (CEST)


 * Certainly. But don't get offended if someone comes in and reorganizes a bit in the meantime.  LtPowers (talk) 01:22, 11 October 2012 (CEST)


 * Of course not, the whole beauty of a Wiki is that others can improve your work. However, I would ask that people think carefully before cancelling the careful contributions of others. It can be most discouraging. -- (WV-en) <font color="#0000DD">A <font color="#0066FF">l <font color="#0099FF">i <font color="#00CCFF">c <font color="#00EEFF">e <font color="#FF3333">✉ 12:32, 13 October 2012 (CEST)

Commonwealth English
Globe-trotter recently removed this reminder at the head of our article

Please would someone read the earlier passages on this discussion page and then explain to me (if they are able) why this comment is wrong? -- (WV-en) <font color="#0000DD">A <font color="#0066FF">l <font color="#0099FF">i <font color="#00CCFF">c <font color="#00EEFF">e <font color="#FF3333">✉ 20:47, 10 October 2012 (CEST)


 * People can edit in whatever dialect they want. If someone else feels pedantic enough to go and change it to "Commonwealth English", then they can spend their time doing so if they wish.  It is important that people contribute information, and completely unimportant what spelling they use.  --Inas (talk) 05:14, 11 October 2012 (CEST)


 * I am pedantic enough to worry about which variant of English is used, and I care about consistency within an article. But let's not put those HTML comments there please. It's avoidable cruft that distracts and potentially scares away a casual editor. We can always correct the contribution back to the right English variant for the page. &mdash; Ravikiran r (talk) 06:37, 11 October 2012 (CEST)


 * I have to slightly disagree with Inas, but only because this is a star article. Star articles need to exemplify our best work, and as such they should maintain consistency in their language use.  I don't know that the HTML comment is necessary, but neither do I think it's a hindrance.  If it helps save someone the time it would take to unify the spelling in the article, it may be worth it.  LtPowers (talk) 14:30, 11 October 2012 (CEST)

I take your point about not wishing to discourage casual contributions and I am sorry I had not considered that before. However, so that people can quickly see which variety of spelling should be used (if they care enough,) I have put a clarification at the top of this discussion page. -- (WV-en) <font color="#0000DD">A <font color="#0066FF">l <font color="#0099FF">i <font color="#00CCFF">c <font color="#00EEFF">e <font color="#FF3333">✉ 12:28, 13 October 2012 (CEST)


 * I've removed it. I see no consensus to start tagging articles with the spelling dialect that should be in use.  --Inas (talk) 01:13, 15 October 2012 (CEST)


 * I definitely agree that there should be no such tag on the article. However, I think that it is not completely unimportant for people to edit this article using the kinds of spellings that are actually seen in Singapore. It's surely not very important, but it's still a good idea. (WV-en) Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:48, 15 October 2012 (CEST)
 * I will restore the clarification at the top of this article's discussion page (but not in the article itself) then. --203.117.33.6 09:58, 22 October 2012 (CEST) -- (WV-en) <font color="#0000DD">A <font color="#0066FF">l <font color="#0099FF">i <font color="#00CCFF">c <font color="#00EEFF">e <font color="#FF3333">✉ 10:19, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
 * I agree that spelling consistency is important and should be mentioned here on the talk page to clear up any disagreements. I've added the word 'preferably' to the notice, so as to still welcome contributions in American English, as they an be modified later. <font color="#4682b4">JamesA  <font color="#191970">>talk 10:47, 22 October 2012 (CEST)


 * I don't think we have reached a consensus here, and I don't think re-adding the tag is helpful. However, I've requested other opinions in the pub.  It is not that I see one article as making a difference, but obviously once this tag stays here we could easily see this sort of thing happening elsewhere, so I think we need a wide consensus to do this.   --Inas (talk) 21:15, 22 October 2012 (CEST)


 * I don't think the idea of tagging the article is very appealing but maybe it is something that could be considered as an optional tag on a talk page. This could be quite useful where it is felt there is some confusion in the article, or in a situation such as this where some contributors feel that it may assist in understanding or clarifying the (formal) regional language requirement. So if it were to be placed on a Talk page by a contributor then so be it, if there is a disputation arising concerning the appropriate language for that article then it can be clarified using the standard methods. Hopefully the issue then requires no further discussion on that article's Talk page.We should deal with language regionalisation errors in the same way that 'spelling' errors are dealt with, correct if noticed and motivated enough to do so. Also perhaps we should not overlook that some contributors may be very happy to use appropriate regionalisation but it just does not occur to them unless prompted, or their spell checker imposes a bias and they don't give it a second thought unless prompted. I see no problem if a Talk page has a tag such, but it would perhaps be better if it is clarified that contributions in the English language are still welcomed if using a non-regionalised spelling if the contributor is unfamiliar with the use of that spelling.  --- Felix (talk) 20:41, 27 October 2012 (CEST)


 * Nicely put, Felix and I've amended the notice at the head of this discussion page accordingly. -- (WV-en) <font color="#0000DD">A <font color="#0066FF">l <font color="#0099FF">i <font color="#00CCFF">c <font color="#00EEFF">e <font color="#FF3333">✉ 03:30, 28 October 2012 (CET)


 * I'm a little concerned that the tag may be perceived as having a rude tone, and though I do think it is not completely unimportant for articles about Singapore to use spellings visitors would actually see in Singapore, I doubt it's really necessary to use this tag to inform potential readers of the talk page about this. This discussion would be quite sufficient. (WV-en) Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:01, 28 October 2012 (CET)
 * There are a lot of discussions on this talk page and it is not very kind to expect people to wade through them all to get to the conclusion: Commonwealth spelling is appropriate. -- (WV-en) <font color="#0000DD">A <font color="#0066FF">l <font color="#0099FF">i <font color="#00CCFF">c <font color="#00EEFF">e <font color="#FF3333">✉ 08:42, 28 October 2012 (CET)
 * I think you're missing my point, Alice, perhaps because I didn't make it clearly enough. Just who is it that doesn't know about the use of British spellings in Singapore and is going to be reading the tag on this talk page? Is the tag necessary, and is it polite to put it here? In short, is this either (1) a solution in search of a problem or (2) an ineffective and - ironically - also possibly a heavy-handed solution to a minor problem? And in case my own tone isn't coming across clearly, I have nothing but appreciation for your work here, so I hope you don't interpret my remarks as simply attempting to find fault with you personally. I just wonder whether this tag is necessary or on balance better than its absence. (WV-en) Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:53, 28 October 2012 (CET)
 * Addendum to my last comment: I could see a reason for a tag like this in an article about a place like Georgia (former SSR), where it wouldn't be widely known around the English-speaking world that American English is preferred, or Thailand, where many Americans wouldn't know British English is (if sometimes perhaps marginally?) preferred. But I'd put it merely as an info box, if anything, and I'd still question how effective putting such a tag on any talk page is likely to be in influencing the nature of edits of the article. And in the case of Singapore, really, anyone who has much familiarity with the country would know that British spellings are standard, so where would the confusion be coming from? Even writing this much in this thread is probably spending more time than a couple of very quickly editable minor spelling differences really merit, in my opinion, no insult intended. (WV-en) Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:01, 28 October 2012 (CET)

Okay, now the tag has gone from merely mildly off-putting to completely inane. --Inas (talk) 10:59, 28 October 2012 (CET)


 * Before placing it, we should discuss first whether we want such a template or not. Wikivoyage talk:Spelling would be the right place for that. --Globe-trotter (talk) 11:57, 28 October 2012 (CET)


 * I agree, the template up top is well on its way to absurdity. I don't think we need any sort of template at all, because (1) the articles are already written in a consistent spelling that is perfectly obvious and (2) it's just not that important to need such a prominent warning.  In the uncommon event that a passing-by editor adds a listing with kilometres and lifts (somehow), we can simply change it without ado.  -- D. Guillaume (talk) 22:58, 28 October 2012 (CET)