Talk:Sihanoukville

Ok, where does one start in sorting out this page?!

I live in sihanoukville (last 8 months) and have been visiting for the past 2 years, no expert but at least I am prepared to provide completely impartial advice / information.

These edits seem rather partisan to say the least, and I've reverted them for time being. (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:13, 17 March 2007 (EDT)
 * I've attempted to engage the user, however, he/she has been attempting retaliatory deletions of the page. Should we do a temp page protection? -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 00:37, 19 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Alright, I'm going to go ahead and protect it. There's no reason Wikivoyage users should suffer because a business owner wants to act like a child.  Please revert the protection when you deem it's unnecessary. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 01:02, 19 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Since the offending child has been blocked should I unprotect this? -- 13:58, 19 March 2007 (EDT)


 * No, because I already did it. =P (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:41, 20 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Thank you! I'd forgotten about undoing it. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 02:50, 20 March 2007 (EDT)


 * In the more than two and a half years that have now passed, it looks as if the owner found another IP address and deleted the review of Coasters, despite the criticisms being substantially watered down as a result of his abusive rants and bullying tone on this page. I re-instated the last pre-deletion version of that review.  I'm a new member, let me know if that was a breech of  Wikivoyage etiquette -- (WT-en) Donnacha • 22:50, 05 December 2009 (EDT)


 * While I'm at it, it is probably worth noting that the intervening years don't seem to have improved the owner's attitude - apart from more unhappy experiences reported on Tripadvisor and Travelfish, I came across this alarming 2009 Travelpod report of [guests being outright conned by the owner and reportedly having a reputation locally for such shenanigans : http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog-entries/stellaone/1/1232332320/tpod.html -- (WT-en) Donnacha • 23:10, 05 December 2009 (EDT)

Inaccuracies
Sigh. I don't like dealing with assholes, but let's try to figure out if there's a point somewhere in his ranting.
 * "MOST OF THE INFORMATION ON BAMBOO ISLAND BELOW IS INCORRECT". This, unfortunately, is useless. Which information?
 * Shifty's doesn't have a pool table. Fine, I'll accept this on good faith.
 * Same Same But Different Guesthouse doesn't have internet access. Can't really find anything either way on this, might as well delete it.

As for Coasters itself, it gets two of two bad reviews on TripAdvisor and Travelfish, and there's some mighty familiar-sounding ALL CAPS RANTING on the Travelfish comments page. Anybody care to distill it down into a fair review? (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:31, 28 March 2007 (EDT)
 * Having problems with assholes must make living with yourself a hell on earth. You may notice ásshole 'that the reports you saw on both those sites are from the same person. Word for word asshole. Check it you fucking half brain. What about all the other reports. Why did you focus on such a singularly negative report. Where did you get the 'Coasters dismal security' detail from asshole? Malibu security is great you say!!??? Then check this out asshole. http://www.travelfish.org/accommodation_profile/cambodia/southern_cambodia/sihanoukville/ochheuteal_beach/all/1231/0?ord=0
 * Your Coasters reports are wrong wrong wrong. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 202.47.109.103 (talk • contribs) 09:36, 29 March 2007


 * Y'know, i'm starting to see why people are calling your service "rude"...


 * Anyway, I've rewritten the descriptions (except the Bamboo Island stuff, where you still haven't said what is incorrect). Flame away =) (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:46, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

I am not happy with your descriptions. This matter is not finished...not by a long shot. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 202.47.109.103 (talk • contribs)


 * So what would make you happy? (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:07, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

I havent time now so I will discuss the matter with you later. What I want is for you to be fair. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 202.47.109.103 (talk • contribs)


 * And what we're asking is for you to be helpful. Make specific factual criticisms and constructive suggestions. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 20:11, 1 April 2007 (EDT)

Where do you get it from??

MONOLITH n. 1 single block of stone shaped into a pillar. 2 A person or thing like a monolith in being massive, immovable, or solidly uniform. Who? Where? When? What? How? What are you talking about? How can you say that?? Have you been here?....its not possible. Would you like a few photos?? Coasters originally had 7 wooden bungalows. Three of them were losing the fight to termites, that was in 2003. It happens in Cambodia. We demolished them before the problem could seriously spread. We saved four of the original seven traditional bungalows and they remain in very good condition, recently re thatched, with the same daily rate they had in 2003, $15, despite the fact that energy utility prices have risen almost 200%. We removed the 3 problem bungalows and built red brick rooms in their place. We were losing business during the very hot season. Some people like air/con and air/con in a wooden bungalow, financially, doesn’t work. We covered the redbrick in the best quality plaster we could source to protect the structure against the heavy rain during that particular season. Its not concrete and It is not ugly. It was built with consideration and is now integrated into the surrounding greenery. Plants and trees grow quickly here. The vistas from these rooms are spectacular. Travelfish’s present introduction to Coasters was written when?? Have a look!! Its almost 4 year old! It was written before the building work was completed. How is that for up to date honest research? Travelfish is a site where time stands still. Its outdated introduction to Coasters is a travesty. It’s the first thing you see…YOUR FIRST IMPRESSION… four year old....COASTERS IS ABYSMAL ETC… The half wit high rise flat dweller full of hate and jealousy who scribbled the introduction said that when he asked for a discount on a $50 room the price was slashed in half in the blink of an eye ( something like that ). What crap. The room rates were not costed at random. The fat bearded prick who wrote that article. (I remember him…..a man on a mission… hostile….he went around the place like a whirlwind…nervous and a tad heavy, progressively indulgent indignant indigestive type. He also wrote a review on ‘’Coasters 2’’ Guesthouse. Find it? Where is it? It dosent exist. He decided to rename Mohachai GH as Coasters 2. And who is he?? No contact addy. A noname. Wikivoyage has great potential. It can be edited and updated. Many of the sites are brilliant. Some of the cities mentioned I know well. I think you are the only site I have ever seen that makes Manchester look like its worth a visit .In all honesty do you rate travelfish as a source of reliable up to date information? Please…why did you state that Coasters has a dismal security?? That simply is NOT true. And when I sent you the details of another establishment with truly DISMAL security…why didn’t you include that in your caring information for the public? How do you pick and choose? The monolith part…where is that from? Of all the guest houses in SV why did you choose to demonise Coasters? Unfairly…so unfairly…..why? About our food…to recommend only eating what you can peel was so unfair, that tore my heart out, its so untrue. We care for the people who stay here….their comfort, their security, the food we serve, the service we provide. We watch it constantly. When we don’t get it right we actively care about that. We thrive on feedback and are always VERY open to those who care to tell us that there is something they are not happy about. We do our best, we really do. I have thousands of email addresses of people who stayed here, do you want them?……contact them at random. Coasters is one of the most successful businesses in SV. That Andrew Haggard Sapphire (the aspiring diplomat DUDE who is into pigeons ) believes that I am afraid of or trying to damage competition. There are many guest houses and hotels around us so why are we so busy?? Stupid guests?? I don’t think so. Most of our customers are returns and we are very happy that families with young children enjoy staying here. Our staff are like family and without being intrusive or familiar, it emanates. Our clientele are all ages. Many interesting people. From everywhere. Doctors to diplomats and those in between and beyond. Would you like a copy of our recent guest register. Coasters menu is managed by a professional chef that we recruited in PP. Would you like a copy of our menu? We take food and hygiene very seriously. Come here, you are welcome. See for yourself.

Coasters, Serendipity Beach. One of the older restaurant/hotels on the beach, with older wooden huts (fan only) and newer brick buildings (air-con). Location on the beach is superb, close to nightlife yet quiet, but rooms are basic, plumbing is dodgy. PLUMBING IS NOT DODGY THE ONLY THING THATS DODGY IS YOUR REVIEW. restaurant gets mixed reviews. WHERE IN THE WORLD IS THERE A RESTAURANT THAT GETS STATIC REVIEWS? and service has drawn many complaints. PLEASE SHOW ME THE MANY COMPLAINTS ( How many?? From where? point me towards them?) Rates from US$15 (fan) to $55 (Wrong Wrong Wrong )Rates are from $8 To $60(beachside air-con), fairly expensive for what you get. THE BEACHSIDE AIRCON IS ALWAYS FULL>>>>>EXPLAIN THAT! Lets get to the bottom of this.....where do you get your information from?? And again I ask ....why didnt you offer the information about the guest house where people are being scammed.....I gave you the link to that. Why didnt you use it?


 * Hi! Stop shouting please, totally unnecessary. And please keep the comments on the talk page, don't insert your shouting into the article. Thanks! – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 05:19, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

Who is shouting?? Please stop giving false information. I have asked you on numerous occasions about your source. Whats your problem....Afraid of embarresing yourself? And once again why have you not updated your advice regarding: http://www.travelfish.org/accommodation_profile/cambodia/southern_cambodia/sihanoukville/ochheuteal_beach/all/1231/0?ord=0 You place such great faith into that travel site.....why dont you want to use the information in their above link?? Why are you putting false room rates?? You know nothing about this business....nothing.

About Bamboo Island....dont worry I can give you the correct information on that. First I want to clear this up.


 * Rob, dude, I'm seriously getting pretty fucking tired of this shit. We don't care who has ever visited Coaster's, we don't care how old the average guest is that has stayed at Coasters.  At this point, I'd rather talk to your boss, who allegedly threaten to have some girl, who you accuse of being a drunk, killed.


 * Can you pretend, even if for five minutes, that you and I have been best friends since Kindergarten? If you begin to treat me with some respect I'll begin to work with you and respect you, rather than assume you're just out to cause to problems.  I tried to work with you when you first started off on Wikivoyage, but you completely misunderstood my intentions and started acting like you had never interacted with anyone before.


 * You're also completely confusing "us". No organization is out to get you or Coaster's.  The wiki process works on collaboration for everyone, and that includes people you do not agree with.  So if you hate me, or anyone else that works on Wikivoyage &mdash; you're just going to have to suck it up, because I intend on being around for a while and anyone else who comes along and you don't agree with is permitted to be around.
 * I dislike several things on Wikivoyage, but there's not much I can do since other people think the status quo is fine, etc.... So in the words of Yasserr Arafat:
 * I come bearing an olive branch in one hand and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand.


 * Now, let's discuss, without using "CAPS" or anymore profanity. Yes, I did use profanity at the beginning of these comments, but from this sentence forward I do not want to use anymore profanity with you.


 * The way Jani described Coaster's seems decent enough, given some reviews I've been able to find about Coaster's. Not all of them come from the same Englishwoman that you accused of being a drunk and thief.


 * I have changed the rates to comply with the rates that are posted on your site. Now, exactly how many rooms does Coasters have available to rent at any given time?  Also, is the site that you operate an official website for Coaster's?


 * Also, could you ask Don to sign on and preferably get an account to work with us? At the moment, all we need are solid facts, nothing more.  No commentary, none of your opinions, and none of our opinions.  If we can start talking in a civilized manner, which should reflect none of the past postings, then we can actually get things done and changed, rather than go on and on.


 * My last question, for now, is does Coasters serve as an internet cafe? -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 23:29, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

"Rob, dude, I'm seriously getting pretty fucking tired of this shit." Rob?? Rob who?? Who do you assume you are talking to? "Now, let's discuss, without using "CAPS" or anymore profanity." Lets DUDE. Lets start with this ...given some reviews I've been able to find about Coaster's.... Point me towards them...where are they? I keep asking that but you dont reply.....we can understand the others reasons if we have the reasonable relevent information. For example. Dodgy plumbing...Where is that from. Is it one complaint...many...a few?? What?? On what do you base you Coasters reviews on?

"At the moment, all we need are solid facts, nothing more" If you are suddenly interested in solid facts then I am glad to hear that. Up to now you have been working on anything but. And again I ask what about http://www.travelfish.org/accommodation_profile/cambodia/southern_cambodia/sihanoukville/ochheuteal_beach/all/1231/0?ord=0 Do you want to talk to Don.....contact coasters1@gmail.com -  —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 203.144.75.18 (talk • contribs)


 * Sounds like mixed reviews to me... this is from a quick google search, and by no means comprehensive:


 * "Just back from 4 nights at the Coasters Hotel in Sihanoukville and have to say it's not been great. On the positive side, the location is great - right on the beach and next door to a great restaurant..."


 * " Be sure to tell them, that you want the room to be cleaned every day." -  (yes, I picked this out from a mostly positive review)


 * One thing I will say for Coasters--the food is excellent. Can't recommend the rooms, but we had some wonderful seafood--and unlike everyone else in Cambodia, they know how to deep fry. -


 * "Coasters" on the beach is a favorite on my guest-house travel list and I`ve seen a lot of them. The rooms are clean, air con and basic, but the restaurant-bar (excellent food) and location are first rate and the staff is the best.


 * "I was traveling with a girlfriend of mine for several months through Asia Pacific. We chose Coasters because of the ideal location on the beach and nice deck setup and looking forward to unwinding. However that is where the positives of the experience stopped. We had hoped to stay longer but ended up leaving after two nights. The staff was rude and were not very helpful. The rooms were pretty run down and inadequate for the price. When we did decide to leave, we found that the initial price agreed for the room had risen by US$10. Out of all of the places we stayed at during our travels, this was by far the worst one. There are so many other great spots on the beach. The place has a lot of potential but the managers are just unwilling to make it happen. Choose another location to stay, the hassle of this place isn't worth the money." - added 12/2006, on travelfish - you've seen this and the others on there, since you responded to them there.


 * There were a few more positive ones that I came across, but they sounded like they'd been written by an employee. Again, this is a wiki and anyone can update it. There is no "we" around here, this isn't an organization with employees, this is just a constantly changing group of people that want to write a travel guide. Some articles are really complete, but most are still a work in progress. The fact that someone added a more full-featured review for Coasters, and that nobody had yet added the theft/scams to Malibu's review doesn't show any bias... it simply means that the Sihanoukville page still needs work and isn't complete. Which, by the way, is pointed out by the bar at the bottom of the pages that denote that page's status... Sihanoukville is currently at "Usable", which means it still needs considerable work.


 * I've changed the service comment from "many complaints" to "some complaints" to tone it down a bit. But I don't think the rest of the review sounds unreasonable, do you? I'm sure you've had plenty of satisfied customers, and I'm sure you're aware of those that haven't been so satisfied. The review should reflect reality, this guide in no way should become like a tourist brochure. RE: the plumbing comment, that is most likely based on a couple of the Travelfish reviews. Any other questions? Are you still horribly dissatisfied with the Coasters review (keeping in mind that it needs to reflect the opinion of travelers, even those that you don't like or agree with )? I've also added a note to Malibu, since yes, that should be reflected in their review.  – (WT-en) cacahuate   talk 18:47, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

Hello Cacahuate, Thank you for the feedback and all the information. To be honest I am a bit shocked by some of it but very happy to have the details. I will respond to you in a few days as I have a small journey starting this evening. If you are interested Coasters has 8 computers with reliable high speed internet that are available to the public. They are located at the back of the restaurant so you can surf while watching the surf.

Deletion
I rolled back the deletion of about half this talk page. Yes, it's perfectly OK to delete or amend harsh words that you regret later (Project:Using talk pages), but deleting an entire conversation between several people is excessive. --(WT-en) Evan 10:35, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

I agree with you not to delete anything. I did it because when I saved a page the additional text didnt appear. I thought it was because there was no room, sorry. It is Khmer New year now, one of the busiest periods of the year. It takes a few days to wind down. Will be in touch soon. PS I certainly have no regrets about anything I said.

For Mr Humble Haggard AKA Sapphire AKA Mary Poppins
"Is Richard Dawkins a jerk for not telling the whole truth about the hypothetical theory of everything? To further this question, are religions juvenile superstitions?" Go on Mr Humble pigeon fucker....you tell us. Put Richard Dawkins in his place. Lets have a laugh. You can do a job on Darwin while your at it.

"If you're from the UK and wondering why my name sounds familiar it's because I'm a bit of a celebrity on the opposite side of the pond." HA HA! a bit of a celebrity!! Go on!!

"My favorite painting is 'Street' by 'John Singer Sargent" How cultivated!! Was he in the military choir?? What a dickhead DUDE!! Go on ...ban me little boy.. get your lawyer daddy after me. Embassadorrr Haggard (very thin especially from disease, worn, weakened, Appearing worn and exhausted; gaunt, wild or distraught in appearance,intractable.)....HA HA HA. The press would love it. Stick to washing pots you little prick.

"Can space be created, if there is no space for space to exist in?" I bet you love trying that one on your boyfriends. Here try this. If it took a man a week to walk a fortnight how many apples are there in a barrel of grapes? "I want to be this that and the other..Anyone know of a good college...Yes try this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grangegorman Poor andy.....I'll let you off the hook for the moment. This is Don from Coasters here. Do me a favor...take Coasters off your Sihanoukville page. Its off the mark. Tell me...of all the Hotels Guest houses in SV...and there are many....how did you focus your feeble little brain on Coasters?? I may have an idea. Joel ring a bell?? Its all hogwash. Its your ambition to write about a place you have never been. You are doing it already you moron....its fiction...aided and abetted by big egos who pretend their jobs and their hobbies are one and the same. As for drunks and thieves....do you want to talk about that? The travelfish page ....there are no contributions by Coasters staff on that. Another fiction. Thousands have stayed here...have you?

Stay Healthy
Request someone who knows add statements about the safe potability of tap water or need to use bottled water, and risks of ice made from water from unknown sources. Regards,  jdh

Unexplained deletion
I just reverted an unexplained deletion of Coasters guesthouse. Is there a reason to delete it? (WT-en) Pashley 01:59, 29 July 2010 (EDT)

More detail about snorkeling please! :-)
"Snorkeling. Possible around most of the islands, with the best snorkeling being at the further our islands for visibility, corals and fish" This is good, but how does one get on such a trip, and to which islands? It sounds like the Bamboo Island trip is not the one that you're referring to with this sentence. ta -NB

Accommodation advice please
hey, can anyone tell me which are the cheapest options? i´m talking about the $1 - $2 dorm, or room with shared facilities. thanks

-- Utopia guest house in Serendipity area, actually a handful of the guesthouses right around it as well offer $2-$3 dorms too.

Moved from article
Just for reference, so that the listing can be reinstated when the bungalows are actually rebuilt and accommodating guests. Until then, the entry is not useful to travelers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:39, 7 May 2013 (UTC)



External link
Moved from the article, because it would seem to violate external links but might be of interest and use to travelers:

For more information on topics discussed by tourists and expats living in Sihanoukville: http://www.sihanoukvilleonline.com/forum/index.php

Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:54, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

How to get around?
If I'd be going to Sihanoukville now I'd be pretty confused about the Get around section and the last edits to it. First it says it is easy to get around by motodops and tuk-tuks. Yet after that it warns that the drivers are systematically overcharging you and even extorting commissions from whatever establishment they are bringing you to. OK, so the solution to this is not to use them if possible.

The article then states you can rent a scooter or motorbike and drive yourself. Sounds good. All hotels allegedly rent them, yet foreigners are not allowed to rent scooters and the police are patrolling the roads and streets catching people violating this law. Well, in that case we should perhaps not advertise them in the first place.

I would image any Cambodians staying at those hotels would have their own vehicles and thus wouldn't need to rent anything so why are the hotels providing this service? Is it because "dumb tourists" are handing over $6-7 without knowing they can use the scooter only until they encounter a police officer? In that case should definitely warn readers not to waste their money.

If the only problem-free ways of getting around are by foot, rented motorcycle or car (?) or taxi, then let's state it clearly. ϒpsilon (talk) 14:56, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Castaways listings
I haven't been to Sihanoukville, but I tend to think the "Eat" listing for Castaways should at most be consolidated into the "Sleep" listing for the same establishment, and at least may not have necessary info, but in an abundance of caution, I'd merge them. Am I wrong, though? Is it an important enough eatery to merit a separate listing in the "Eat" section? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:51, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

How can I add description of Bamboo Bar Vegetarian Restaraunt
If I edit text for your site, for it looks not like ad? Because Ikan Kekek deleted my listing, because, he said, it is very look-like ad. Thank you. —The preceding comment was added by Ushiushi2015 (talk • contribs)


 * Because you or someone else associated with that business repeatedly edit warred by way of insisting on touting, not only was your listing delisted; your URL was also put on the Wikimedia-wide spam blacklist. See article history here. You or others working for this business have wasted a lot of volunteer users' time. Why should we now relent because you've suddenly decided to finally engage in some kind of dialogue with us? What guarantee would you give us that you actually read don't tout carefully and will do it right this time, and frankly, at this point, why should we care? Responsible business owners are just as welcome to contribute as any other user, but this site is for the benefit of travelers, not of businessmen or publicists who've edit warred 8 times, if I haven't missed one or two other instances. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:51, 27 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Former user didn`t know about your wikipedia-like style of rules and that`s because she just update and update the listing: she decided, that it was just some technical errors. Can I add this text for listing: "Bamboo Bar Vegetarian Restaurant, Ochheteaul beach road - Only fresh healthy vegetarian food, not using MSG or fish sauce, only purified water and ice. Ping-pong and table games. Located on the Ochheteaul beach road (just 50 m from the sea). Open 24 hours 7 days per week."? Thank you. —The preceding comment was added by Ushiushi2015 (talk • contribs)


 * I have a lot of trouble believing you. How easy is it to ignore a flashing light when you log on that tells you that your account is blocked and you need to check your user talk page? You paid her to do this, right? And what Wikipedia-like rules?


 * I think your proposed listing is still a bit touty, by the way. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:23, 2 February 2016 (UTC)


 * User:Ibaman, you were also involved in the edit war on this establishment. Do you think we should spend more time on this? I would vote No, as the listing in question is not likely to be of great importance to travelers and we've spent too much time on this. But I'd like your view. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:52, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I also have trouble believing this... I second that No. Ibaman (talk) 10:03, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I work with this guys (BambooBar) not very long. and I`m not very experienced wiki-user. Former girl didn`t know about wiki anything - she even didn`t know about history of edits in wiki, and she didn`t know about these discussions. Why can`t you let me to publish listing, that you like, and that, which looks not like ad? —The preceding comment was added by 42.115.42.157 (talk • contribs)
 * It's important to you, as a publicist or employee of that business, to add a listing, but why is it important to this site's readers? Anyway, we just feel like we've spent too much time on this. If you want to see if someone else feels like working with you, you can always try posting to Travellers' pub, but link this discussion, so that everyone understands the background. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:16, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Can I try to add my listing of Bamboobar one more time, without violating any rules of wikivoyage idea?

How can I de-de-list and de-blacklist Bamboo Bar?
How can I add proper listing of Bamboo Bar without violation of any parts of wikivoyage idea? And what we should do if someone of our guests, or someone from vegetarian subculture decide to add listing about our restauraunt to Wikivoyage/Sihanoukville. —The preceding comment was added by Ushiushi2015 (talk • contribs)


 * Did you notice the thread immediately above this new one? People representing this establishment touted and edit warred so many times that its URL was put on the global Wikimedia spam blacklist. Explain why it's so important to travellers and our readership for you to have a listing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:25, 8 June 2016 (UTC)


 * You were a participant in that thread and got an answer there. So are you wasting more of our time now, or do you have something new to say? I'd normally be more polite, but given the history... Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:27, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Bamboo Bar
Hello Wikivoyage Community.

I am unaware of the history with this listing. I am trying to add Bamboo as I feel it is an important place. One of few 24/7 bars here in Cambodia, Sihanoukville. But each time I do I get a message from you that you removed it.

Could you tell me how to get this listing up? And what the cause of the blacklisting is? I don't understand these past problems.

Any help would be appreciated.

Interpidexplorer (talk) 07:06, 30 April 2017 (UTC)


 * There are two threads directly above this that appear to clarify the situation. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 07:33, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi,

I read all of them just after my post. Ikan suggested I post this here to resolve. I appreciate there is time wasting that has gone on. I hope to resolve it with you once and for all. Please can you advice me on how to post this listing. Bamboo is an important place in Sihanoukville. One of a few 24/7 bars. I think that all the mess above is down to language barriers and user error or lack of knowledge about wiki rules. Can we agree to work together and close this problem.

Guide me to make the listing correct please.

Thank you.

Interpidexplorer (talk) 08:41, 30 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I strongly disagree that the long edit war was purely due to a lack of understanding, and my problem with your approach is that it at least initially fit into the previous edit warring, in that you started off with a duplicated listing. Here's your last attempt at a listing:




 * There are a few relatively small problems with it that could be addressed, but the main issue is the history of touting/edit warring that resulted in this establishment's URL being blacklisted.


 * I would solicit the opinion of User:Ibaman before any other step is taken.


 * Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:57, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Hello User:Ibaman,

Please could you assist me in this matter. I appreciate the bad history. None that I was a part of. I would like to list this and to let this matter be once and for all.

I would appreciate the help.

Interpidexplorer (talk) 04:31, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Wikidata
This article is currently linked to the Sihanoukville Province not Sihanoukville (city), other language Wikivoyage articles are under both. Would be good to sort this out. --Traveler100 (talk) 07:42, 13 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes, it would. Where is the link? Can it simply be changed? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:15, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Notice: Wide-area warning issued for Cambodia, Myanmar and Thailand
In recent months, there is a surge of human trafficking reported in Cambodia, Myanmar and Thailand, where travellers (mainly Taiwanese travellers, Chinese travellers were more common pre-COVID) were tricked by fake job offers, travelled to and abducted in these countries, and forced to work for criminal syndicates like slaves. In response to the trend, I have issued warnings for articles of Cambodia (particularly Sihanoukville), Myanmar (particularly Northern Myanmar) and Thailand.

References (all in Chinese):
 * 柬埔寨人口販賣事件, the article recording the surge on Chinese Wikipedia.
 * Travel warning (highest level) for Cambodia, issued by Taiwanese MFA.
 * Information page by the Taiwanese MFA.
 * News report by Taiwanese investigative journalist The Reporter, covering the background of the surge and involvement of local Taiwanese gangs.
 * News report by Hong Kong newspaper am730.
 * News report by Hong Kong newspaper Ming Pao, illustrating the death of a victim.
 * News report by Hong Kong newspaper Ming Pao highlighting Hong Kong travellers have also fallen into victim, luckily most of them are successfully rescued.
 * News report (in English) by The Diplomat, illustrating the seriousness of the trend.

Please check if there are problems of over-bolding or other grammatical problems, and feel free to add more on advices if necessary.廣九直通車 (talk) 06:41, 17 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you, that's a good addition (the warnings are in 'Work', for anyone else interested). If you haven't already done so, it might be a good idea to add these to zh.wikivoyage.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 07:05, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This seems horrendous and frightful should definitely be mentioned. Thanks for adding them . Agree with tt! that it might be a good idea to add this to zh.voy. SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 11:31, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll keep on my sentry work, just like how I made my first warning on COVID for Wuhan (sigh it's almost 2 years and the pandemic still doesn't come to an end...). Will follow up on Chinese Wikivoyage.廣九直通車 (talk) 11:36, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * While the entire Chinese Wikivoyage is mostly empty (that's why I'm more focused in here), I've also ✅ with the warnings at there: see 柬埔寨, 泰国, 緬甸 and 西哈努克. Perhaps after there are no further comments, this thread should be swept to the corresponding article talk pages.廣九直通車 (talk) 13:27, 17 August 2022 (UTC)


 * We do have some cautionary info at Working_abroad, Common_scams and Volunteer_travel. I wonder if those need to be expanded or if some links should be added either in this article or in those.
 * Certainly variations on the problem are fairly widespread. In my own travels I've encountered:


 * Filipinas trapped in exploitive jobs in Saudi Arabia (1980s, not sure if it still happens). She cannot leave the country without an exit visa and getting that requires the boss's signature. He says she's a lazy bitch & he's not signing. She says he beat or raped her, often both. My advice would be don't go anywhere where you'd need an exit visa to leave.
 * An agency charging Chinese nurses large up-front fees for placements in Canada on domestic servant visas taking care of disabled people, mostly Alzheimer's patients. Salary might have sounded good to a Chinese, but it was much less than you'd get working at McDonald's and hours were much longer.
 * Things I've only heard about include an Indian diplomat in the US mistreating domestic help (Devyani Khobragade incident), Fujian girls being smuggled to Taipei being thrown overboard when the Taiwan Coast Guard caught the boats, Snakehead gangs importing prostitutes to the US. Pashley (talk) 14:56, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Here pickers of wild berries are imported from e.g. south-east Asia. They often have to take loans for the journey. The buyers of the berries arrange visa, travel, accommodation, intro, transport to the woods etc., but usually do not employ them. One year the harvest was weak and the pickers couldn't pay the loans. Volunteers helped them go to court to claim employment, but the pickers couldn't afford to stay during the multiple-year process, so they settled at terms they could live with. The berry-pickers are still not regarded employees, but to get visas for their labour, the buyers now need to guarantee a minimum income (and there are more eyes on lodgings, rents etc.). We have also had a number of outright illegal arrangements, mainly in other trades. The common denominator seems to be loans and threat of being expelled from the country for illegal work, in the cases where it isn't about direct slavery. For those who have an income at home, the risk of being expelled isn't a reason to remain in slavery, but if you have family you cannot feed without the foreign income ... The criminals may also threaten you and your family in your country of origin, especially if the justice is weak there. –LPfi (talk) 20:16, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

I support these warnings. Last night I added caution boxes to Tachileik and Myawaddy  on the same issue. And it is not just targetting individuals who speak Chinese. Malaysian and Indonesian were also targetted by the same group of fraudsters. This merits posting in English to reach as wide audience as possible. I do not think this is the typical "run of the mills" employment scams since those commons scams only want your money. The current scam hold you hostage and force you to work for them. OhanaUnitedTalk page 01:30, 19 August 2022 (UTC)


 * I appreciate these kinds of warnings. They are important. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:54, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Update: It seems that not only aspirant workers are falling victim, criminals are also targeting the average travellers. Some may recruit workers in local front companies and traffic victims en masse using company tours, others may use individualized vacation invitation to lure them to these countries (see this report by HK TV Channel i-Cable), all followed up by abduction. I genuinely don't know when will the criminals resort to random abduction if the situation worsens. Given by such worrying scenario, I have raised the warnings to the top of all these articles. Please advice if this is appropriate or they should be send back to stay safe, regards.廣九直通車 (talk) 11:42, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Also thanks to for leaving proper warning, have upgraded these warnings to warningboxbased on the template's usage guidelines.廣九直通車 (talk) 13:40, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I read that Laos may also be one of the destinations. I propose adding the same warning to Laos. OhanaUnitedTalk page 22:15, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The warningbox at the top of the article should be very brief. Most of the information could be in Work (not necessarily in a warning box), that relevant also for those not intending to find work in Stay safe. Some of this should probably be in Working abroad and Common scams. –LPfi (talk) 06:36, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for 's and your opinion. I have send these warnings back to "Work" and "Stay safe" (if work is not yet created). Though do you think a very brief warning on the top with link to the more detailed warning is OK?廣九直通車 (talk) 04:16, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The warning starts with: Telecommunication fraud, illegal remote gambling are rampant in parts of Thailand and its neighbours, Myanmar and Cambodia. How does this relate to te rest of the info in the warning box? --FredTC (talk) 06:02, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * You mean the warning for Thailand? I make special remark on Cambodia and Myanmar, because Thailand is a major transit hub for human traffickers to transit victims from their country to their bases in Cambodia and Myanmar, though criminal bases do exist in Thailand (like the notorious "KK園區", not sure what's its English name). The remainder of the warning focus on common methods used by human traffickers and ways to avoid them. If you have concerns about coherence, please make your point clearer, thank you.廣九直通車 (talk) 09:43, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I mean the "Telecommunication fraud, illegal remote gambling" -part of the text. FredTC (talk) 09:58, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * For that part I tried to lay down the context and background. After all, criminals don't traffic and abduct victims for no reason, they do these because they need to recruit manpower for them.廣九直通車 (talk) 03:16, 26 August 2022 (UTC)