Talk:Santiago

Pictures
If anyone has a picture of La Moneda, it would be great to get it in the article. I can upload it if necessary, just send it my way. -- (WT-en) Peraltita 12:35, 12 November 2006 (EST)

Warning box
Should we have a warning box about the violent riots taking place in Santiago that are celebrating/protesting Pinochet's death. -- (WT-en) Andrew H. (Sapphire) 21:35, 10 December 2006 (EST)


 * Sure, sounds like a good idea. A Travel news item might be good, too. Sounds like a big brouhaha, but I doubt that the protests are going to be effective. --(WT-en) Evan 21:43, 10 December 2006 (EST)

Posting Letters
Shall we mention that you have to go downtown to the post office to mail a postcare, as there are no mailboxes anyhere else in town? That was a surprise to me. --(WT-en) Beenthere 02:14, 11 June 2008 (EDT)


 * Plunge forward. (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:54, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

Districts
I've been taking a look at this article for the past week or so trying to see what I could do to help on the collaboration of the month front. One of the things that struck me was how unhelpful I found the districts - no borders (which helps both contributors and travellers) and very little content. After giving it some thought, I've removed the districts section from the article for three reasons:


 * 1) They seemed pretty incoherent to someone (me) who had never been there before (no borders defined and it looks like only part of the city is covered by them),
 * 2) The districts appear to fail all the recommendations for when to districtify a huge city, and
 * 3) Given the small amount of content right now, I feel it is easier for a traveller to use one useful-grade Santiago article than five or so sparsely filled outlines.

I have no doubt that Santiago is big enough to have districts, but I think we should first focus on getting more content into the main article. Once that is done, hopefully someone who is familiar with the city can step in and lend their expertise to shaping some comprehensive districts.

For reference, the old districts are below. I haven't deleted these articles, so when the time comes they can be reused, merged or redirected as required. I tried to copy any info in these pages into the main Santiago article so users can continue to find and use it. (WT-en) Shaund 02:18, 11 January 2009 (EST)


 * Barrio Brasil
 * Barrio Suecia
 * Barrio Par&iacute;s Londres
 * Barrio Bellavista - The neighbourhood where most of the nightlife is concentrated.
 * Plaza Nuñoa - a square with quiet and relaxed nightlife.

More classification
I can't help thinking the drink section would benefit from being split up into sub-sections such as Providencia and Bella Vista. Any objections?--(WT-en) zorn 01:06, 2 February 2010 (EST)


 * If we have enough listings for those areas, go ahead. It will be useful for when we want to districtify the city. (WT-en) Shaund 01:59, 3 February 2010 (EST)

Bar Liguria
I just added an entry for Bar Liguria after going there twice during my trip. There was an older entry for presumably the same bar (the address was a few digits off, and I have a receipt in front of me as I write this so I'm fairly sure mine is correct) which seemed completely inconsistent with what I saw there. It didn't seem like a matter of opinion, I just didn't recognise the place from the older description, so I decided I'd plunge forward :-) and delete it. This note is here in case I upset anyone, I don't claim to know the city well, I am just assuming the old entry was wrong or out of date and I do have a limited but real amount of experience. --(WT-en) zorn 01:06, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Pollution
I'm wondering if wiki voyage needs to be taking a political stance in regards to a travel article. Global Warming is a debatable idea, and smog and pollution is relative. A large percentage of world travelers are coming from cities like LA, Houston, New York, DFW, London, etc. These are all highly developed populated cities with lots of stuff in the air, I certainly don't make a decision about going somewhere based on air quality. Furthermore, the whole issue is a Moral Hazard as that we are all involved in the dispersal and distribution of particulate matter into the air. Additionally, there is no real solid 100 precent proof that increased "pollution" is harmful and/or killing life, as the earth, humans and all other life forms are in a constant state of evolution, that's how we survive.

This is a travel article. Traveling is about exploring and experiencing new and exciting things, and meeting different and interesting people. Lets leave the politics and debates of pollution and smog to the news and science sites.


 * We provide information that can be of use to travelers and let them make up their minds whether the information is important to them or not. If you think pollution is harmless and might be beneficial, that's up to you. And that's all I have to say about the supposed controversies you bring up. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:21, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

How many district articles does Santiago need?
A little more than a year ago I found this article. It had district articles but no map and some of the POIs were still sitting around in the city's article. After some massive googling and adding of coordinates, I managed to get a coarse picture of the districts (yes, I've never been to and know nothing about Santiago de Chile).

Now when looking at the district articles, they are really just laundry lists of POIs and most of them are rather short. Undoing the districtification would probably not be a good idea — after all we have fairly many POIs — but maybe the number of districts could be cut down to something like 4-5? Also, is there someone here with personal knowledge of the city who would be able to fill in sections both in the city's article and the districts'? User:Minnecologies? ϒpsilon (talk) 16:05, 9 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Anyone? ϒpsilon (talk) 13:22, 25 May 2015 (UTC)


 * So, my suggestion would be adding up the articles to something like this:
 * 1. West (Barrio Brasil, Barrio Lira, Historic Center*), 2. Lastarria-Bustamente (Lastarria, Bustamente), 3. East (Bellavista*, Sanhattan*, Providencia*), 4. Suburbs. (A star indicates Usable status as of now.) Apart from the Suburbs article, which I don't know what to do with, this would give us district articles which are not only usable (has get in, see, eat, sleep) but seriously has something more than just the bare minimum. Why is that needed? All district articles need to be usable in order to make the main Santiago article eligible for Guide status. In addition, the Spanish article likely has something worth translating to make this an even more comprehensive article.
 * What's the use of all this? Well, for Northern Hemisphere winter months we usually have somewhat hard time finding articles to be featured as Destination of the Month (articles nominated for DotM must be at Guide status and otherwise in a brilliant shape and up to date), so this could perhaps be a good one to put on the Main Page sometime in the winter of 2016-17? ϒpsilon (talk) 17:17, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

New district division, Guide status and DotM
Still not been to Santiago, still nobody has shown interest in my monologue above, however I'm planning to go ahead with this project soon. Part of the reason is that I'd like to see some Latin American article(s) as DotM(s) next winter too, but I think we should avoid featuring places like Mérida (Mexico) until the zika epidemic calms down. Santiago, and Chile in general, seem to be safe in this respect. Santiago is however still only a usable article.

Santiago's article at es looks quite good (it's a Star!) and bringing over stuff from there will definitely be enough to bring ours up to Guide status... or would, if the districts would be in a better shape but they don't look very good as of now. Many of them are outlines and have to be combined in order to get them to usable status. Fortunately the district articles over at es which I've now had a closer look at do have things worth translating (unfortunately most of the content isn't listingfied and it's pretty encyclopedic) including bits of information about places further out from downtown. There are minor differences between our and the Spanish district division as well as the official division (go to the dynamic map and turn on the boundaries from the menu), but as the new districts will be fairly large this won't be much of a problem.

So, here is my idea for five new districts:
 * 1) Downtown (composed of: Historic center ✅, Barrio Lastarria ✅, Barrio Lira ✅, Zona Centro ✅ — though parts of this one also seems to belong to what we call Barrio Brasil, possibly Bustamente-Providencia, Parque Forestal ✅) = red+purple area combined into one
 * 2) Bustamente-Providencia (composed of:Parque Bustamante ✅, Providencia ✅, Providencia (Chile) ✅) = orange+light green area combined into one
 * 3) Sanhattan and East (composed of: Sanhattan ✅, Zona Oriente ✅, Ñuñoa ✅, Vitacura ✅, Lo Barnechea ✅ and the easternmost slice of Zona Sur ✅ including the sole listing in Santiago de Chile/Suburban Santiago ✅ ) = blue area extended further east
 * 4) Bellavista and North (composed of: Bellavista ✅, Zona Norte ✅, Barrio Bellavista ✅, Recoleta ✅) = dark green area extended further north
 * 5) Barrio Brasil, West and South (composed of: Barrio Brasil ✅, Zona Poniente✅, most of Zona Sur ✅) = yellow area extended west and south

As you may see it's basically just a fusion of already existing districts, not a major mashup, still comments are welcome (especially if there's somebody here who happens to know the city). I'll probably plunge forward in a couple of days if there's no opposition. --ϒpsilon (talk) 14:35, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I'd like to help somehow. I'm rather wondering why the articles are focused on a few small districts right in the center, and most of this city is contained in the (empty) Santiago_de_Chile/Suburban_Santiago . Do we know if there really is nothing outside the city center? (I'm guessing there probably is content) Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:08, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi and welcome onboard! Sure there are interesting things in the suburbs, please have a look at the Spanish articles I've linked to (the links that are lighter blue). While our district division for some reason (no idea who created it in the first place) right now are just spots in or near downtown, the Spanish Wikivoyage's districts instead ray out from it in different directions, thereby also containing information from the suburbs. And even if they don't, our new articles will provide a complete coverage of the city which is good when someone wants to add suburban listings in the future.
 * As this is not Lima and I'm not Turbo :) let's wait for a couple of days, then merge our current articles so that we get just five of them per above, and after this start adding content from the Spanish articles. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:42, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Great :) Just FYI, there is also this map from Wikipedia. Santiago --Andrewssi2 (talk) 01:28, 15 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Yup, that map also in the Spanish article. ϒpsilon (talk) 05:17, 15 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Ah, just saw that at the top of the article. But it isn't actually directly related to the districts section right? Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:10, 15 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, the Spanish districts are the inner 3/4 of the map. If I understood what I read yesterday correctly, there are four administative levels on the top of each other that all contain the name “Santiago”.


 * Highest up, there’s the w:Santiago Metropolitan region (in the dynamic map “XIII Región Metropolitana de Santiago”), a huge thing.
 * The most central part of it is known as the Santiago conurbation/Greater Santiago etc., which is what is depicted in the colorful map to the right.
 * If one cuts off the outermost corners of the former, w:Santiago Province, Chile, (“Provincia de Santiago” in the dynamic map) is what one has left. This is what the Spanish article covers and this is what I also planned that our Santiago article should cover (the sum of the five districts).
 * The red thing in the middle of the colorful map corresponds to “Santiago” in the dynamic map and es:Santiago de Chile: Zona Centro in the Spanish version. In our current version, this corresponds to Barrio Brasil, Historic Center and Barrio Lastarrio and some grey stuff south of the two latter. In the new version, the eastern half will make up “Downtown” and the western be part of the “West and South”. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:33, 15 February 2016 (UTC)


 * OK great, so these tie up with your 5 proposed areas?
 * As an aside, the OSM looks fairly detailed. Seems that there are glaciers within the (administrative) boundaries of this city! --Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:23, 17 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, more or less. BTW I'm working on the district map right now and it'll be finished in a couple of hours. Given there has been no opposition, I will perform the merger of the districts when I'm done with the map.
 * And yeah, it looks like the eastern part of the city is so large that it apparently goes up to some glaciers in the Andes. ϒpsilon (talk) 15:00, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

[indent reset] So, now we have five well usable articles, perhaps they need some minor polishing. Also, I just promoted the article's status to Guide, and will nominate it for DotM for some month for next Northern Hemisphere winter sometime later. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:15, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Mapmasks
Andrew, thanks for the mapmasks, however our downtown article doesn’t correspond exactly to the administrative downtown. The westernmost third (west of that freeway) I’ve grouped together with west and south to get more listings in that article. ϒpsilon (talk) 12:15, 20 February 2016 (UTC)


 * ah, ok :) --Andrewssi2 (talk) 09:14, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Name
Do we need the "de Chile" disambiguation? Isn't this by far the largest city called Santiago and the most famous if we exclude Santiago de Compostela, which is much more commonly called by its full name than Santiago de Chile? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:30, 4 March 2024 (UTC)


 * . The "clearly more famous" applies here. enwiki also only uses "Santiago", though eswiki does use "Santiago de Chile" . --  SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 07:54, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * removing "de Chile". "Santiago de Chile" isn't an official name... it's simply used in Spanish when you need to disambiguate among the Santiagos. This use case doesn't apply here as we use a disambiguation page to disambiguate. Brycehughes (talk) 09:36, 4 March 2024 (UTC)


 * per @SHB2000, Santiago Chile is the "most famous" Santiago. Mrkstvns (talk) 14:20, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * per above. Ground Zero (talk) 17:49, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * If there are no objections by March 7, I will move the articles accordingly. -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 20:22, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Support. I scanned Santiago and the only place that could be a significant travel destination in its own right is Santiago (Cape Verde). I don't know if this is a popular travel destination among Europeans, and if it is, whether it would be known as "Santiago" or as "Cape Verde" or even "Praia". However, virtually all of the search results for "Santiago place" on the internet point to the city in Chile. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 15:17, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The other Santiago that's a significant travel destination is Santiago de Compostela, but as I said, the full name of that city is used much more open, and historically, some foreigners even called it just "Compostela". Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:16, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅, though more will need to be done (categorization, links, etc.) – I'll do them this weekend. -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 12:28, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Fixed the categories (meaning it can be left as-is if needed). -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 12:32, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ fixing all the mainspace redirects. That was exhausting. -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 08:28, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you! That was really formidable! I saw that you worked on a huge number of articles! Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:45, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Ikan :-)! I think it took around 150 edits to fix the redirects, categories and the names, but I'm glad we're here to where we are now. -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 09:56, 8 March 2024 (UTC)