Talk:RAP

VFD discussion
Currently a redirect to Rapid City. However, I think the musical genre of rap is definitely a viable travel topic (we already have Jazz, and Requested articles includes an idea for an East Coast hip hop tour). If we already had a travel topic article about rap, the best solution would be to turn RAP into a disambiguation page; since we don't yet, and since Rapid City Regional Airport is not nearly major enough to absolutely need its IATA code to redirect, I think it would be prudent to delete the redirect and not needlessly hinder the creation of such a travel topic article. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 01:56, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Sure, . I created the page. It could just as easily be one of the hardcoded IATA redirects, like . I don't predict the Rapid City IATA code changing often. ARR8 (talk) 02:06, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
 * To be clear, the support means support deletion. ARR8 (talk) 02:12, 8 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete. Honestly, I think that turning IATA codes into redirects is a waste of time. The exception is huge airports like Atlanta Airport. --Comment by Selfie City  (talk about my contributions ) 02:48, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete I think there was never any actual consensus on creating all those IATA code redirects, but in this example there clearly is something people think of before they think of a minor joke airport in the middle of nowhere... Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:58, 8 October 2018 (UTC)


 * OK, I'll go along with consensus & say delete.
 * As for the more general question of IATA redirects, that was discussed somewhere & the conclusion was they were a good idea. I spent a few hours creating several dozen, all the ones with five or more links on "pages wanted". I think the fact that many had 7 or 8 red links is fairly good evidence they are worthwhile. Pashley (talk) 14:43, 8 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete per others. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:10, 8 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Updated: Create a disambig page instead. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:57, 18 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment: MediaWiki, by default, is case-sensitive on all but the first character of titles. RAP is not the same article as rap or rap music (with or without the silent leading 'c'). K7L (talk) 20:20, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
 * True. This does not show in the search field with the Vector (current default) interface until Rap is created, but when it is, the two coexist as separate pages. So no need to remove the airport redirect, if the other page is created – as article, redirect or disambiguation page. --LPfi (talk) 08:34, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Those were my two concerns - that the capitalization might prevent the creation of a new page, and that it might interfere with autocomplete for people trying to search for rap. If neither is true, then I suppose it would be better to have as few hardcoded redirects as possible - so I now lean keep on this. If there's any reason why the presence of this redirect would actually hinder the creation of a new page, I'll vote to delete again. Otherwise, I don't think it does any harm. ARR8 (talk) 12:41, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Other than leaving Rapid City Regional Airport with KRAP as its ICAO code? I suppose it's harmless. :) K7L (talk) 01:09, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Ha, sounds like the eventual switch to ICAO will be a memorable event for Rapid City. ARR8 (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * ...as in "this is your captain speaking, we're descending from 25,000 feet and are about to land in, well this could get messy..."? K7L (talk) 04:50, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete I have not changed any search settings, and when I type "rap" into the search, it takes me to the airport. Same with "Rap", so it does not seem to be case-sensitive. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 03:02, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * As I said above: until Rap is created. RAP is just considered the closest match until then. --LPfi (talk) 14:49, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Redirects like this are very high-value, especially for mobile search. It's much easier to type "LAX" in your phone than to migrate by breadcrumbs or standard links. As always, redirects are cheap, so there's not much incentive to delete them. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:10, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I was actually just coming over here to say that I’m still for deleting when, as I typed in “vfd” to get to this page, my search term came out as “bff” and I was redirected to the Scottsbluff Airport information. To make it clear, I do not support airport IATA redirects. In most cases I think it’s a waste of time reverting them, but per User:ChubbyWimbus and this other redirect incident I support delete for this redirect. Some earlier comments pulled me a little from the delete zone but I’m now a solid delete supporter again. --Comment by Selfie City  (talk about my contributions ) 04:20, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment: Well, keep in mind removing the redirect wouldn't help you in this case. If you delete bff, entering bff into the search wouldn't take you to VFD, it'll just take you to a search for the term "bff." ARR8 (talk) 14:34, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep - Adding IATA redirects has identified a good number of errors on airport descriptions and use of incorrect codes on Wikipedia. Helps readers not make any incorrect bookings, or at least save some time and confusion. Adding Rap solves the search issue. Currently redirect to Music, but if people think this could be a travel topic then should be changed to an article. --Traveler100 (talk) 05:04, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. As a rule, I find the IATA redirects useful—it's easier to search "ORD" or "SFO" than to type the whole name of the airport. And in some cases it's hard to remember the exact name of the airport (is it Guangzhou Baiyun? Or just Baiyun? For me it's easier to search for "CAN"). And sometimes it's not obvious which article an airport will be covered in—easier to type "RDU" than to remember if its main listing is in the Raleigh, Durham, or Research Triangle article. Now that Rap has been created, this redirect seems to do no harm, so there's no need to delete it. —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:40, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment - If we keep "RAP" as an airport redirect, we need to create a disambiguation, because of the common and possibly travel-related meaning of "rap". There have been some other disambiguation pages that have included airport redirects. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:48, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Why is a disambiguation page necessary? Would a reader ever type the word in all caps when looking for the type of music? —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:20, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter if you type in all caps or not. It's not case-sensitive. Whoever said that was mistaken. Rap, rap, RAP, rAp, RaP, rAP, RAp: All take you to the same place. You can do the same with any location (ex: pittsBUrgh takes you to Pittsburgh). ChubbyWimbus (talk) 15:55, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * That's not correct, and I encourage you to test it for yourself by typing "RAP" and "Rap" into the search box. Once two pages are created that differ in capitalization, the search function respects that difference (with the caveat that, as K7L said, the first character of a page title is not case-sensitive). —Granger (talk · contribs) 16:21, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * If you think people usually distinguish by case when typing in search boxes, I would beg to differ. I hardly ever use capital letters to search in Wikipedia, and many of our users are familiar with Wikipedia. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:46, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Agree, that is why the IATA code redirect will not affect most searches people enter. --Traveler100 (talk) 17:59, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * But if we want to help people looking for the IATA code, we need for them to be able to access it using lowercase letters, too, which is why a disambig would be helpful in this case. I think it's very problematic that people have to use ALL-CAPS to access any of the other IATA code redirects. I didn't know that until now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:13, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * The main reason for the IATA template was to provide an easy and clear link from multiple pages to a single page detailing a non huge airport. --Traveler100 (talk) 18:24, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, duly noted. But don't you think it's a problem if someone searches for an airport using lower-case letters and doesn't find it that way? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:28, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * That's a fair point. It could be solved by a Template:hatnote in the Music article, or by a disambiguation page as you suggest. It feels slightly silly to me to create a disambiguation page for an IATA code and a genre of music that we don't actually have an article for, but I don't strongly object.
 * By the way, to clarify, you don't usually need to use all-caps to access IATA code redirects. Searching for "ord", "sfo", or "can" works just fine. The software only takes capitalization into account in searches when there are two pages that differ only in capitalization (like RAP and Rap). —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:40, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

I have a related question: are there any times railroads or other modes of transport share the names of airport codes? I'm thinking if there was, for example, a train station's name that was abbreviated to "ATL" in Atlanta, or "SJC" in San Jose. This could really pose a problem for IATA redirects. --Comment by Selfie City  (talk about my contributions ) 01:43, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Indeed there is. BUF is the IATA code for Buffalo Niagara International Airport and also the Amtrak identifier for Buffalo-Depew train station. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:23, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
 * That seems like a problem to me. Someone could type in a redirect for the train station but suddenly find themselves at the airport article. And if we're talking about an Amtrak idenification, it seems very possible that IATA/Amtrak codes could be identical in multiple cases. --Comment by Selfie City  (talk about my contributions ) 03:26, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Please study the functionality. If the three letter code has more than one meaning for a travel related topic then there is a dis-ambiguous page which covers all possibilities, for example MGM. The letters used in the IATA template will however always take you to the airport listing or page. This activity has corrected a lot of errors on the site, improved information on airports and provided additional functionality yo readers. You really think it is worth removing all this over a topic that is only indirectly travel related that does not exist! Also should assume reader has some intelligence, why would you type in bff in a travel site if you want to know what other meaning it has, that is what Wikipedia is for. Traveler100 (talk) 04:46, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I recall the IATA template contained a few hard-coded checks for silliness like and  (the names of countries Taiwan and mainland China) along with a few others, like  (which could be either Grand Theft Auto or Greater Toronto Area - but should actually point to some tiny airport in Gatokae, Solomon Islands). It's nothing that hasn't come up before; I think we can handle the difference between RAP and rap music, as it's less messy than the ICAO code. K7L (talk) 05:24, 18 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep. I suppose few people use all caps to search for the music genre, and those who do will not be surprised when ending up in the wrong place. It seems this is the only real concern. The rest of the discussion is useful, but does not directly affect the value of the IATA redirect. --LPfi (talk) 15:52, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. Pashley (talk) 07:04, 3 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Result: kept. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk | contributions ) 19:13, 10 November 2018 (UTC)