Talk:Pontianak to Kuching

Vfd discussion
Another personal itinerary of the type which we are to avoid. It has long been tagged with merge, but there is not really much of anything to merge that isn't already covered in the main articles. Thus, there is no reason to keep this for attribution since nothing has been merged, and it's not a reasonable search term, so a redirect is not really appropriate.
 * Delete - Texugo (talk) 16:01, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. What makes this a "personal itinerary"? It's a defined route that is described as "one leg of the 'Extended Borneo Overland Trail'". The article could use Mosing but is a Usable article. I see no good reason to delete or merge it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:49, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Isn't the "Extended Borneo Overland Trail" just something we made up? It gets exactly 2 hits in Google: this page, and its counterpart on WT. If it is a valid established route, I'll retract this nomination. Texugo (talk) 18:54, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know whether that's a route we made up. But we're reading the policy differently. The way I read the policy, if an article defines a specific route that can be worked on collaboratively, it can be OK. ("Is the itinerary article about a specific route?" "'Personal' itineraries encourage creation of arbitrary articles that aren't collaborative.") I think what's happening is that I'm reading our current policy more expansively, so as not to do what I consider unnecessary deletions, whereas you are reading our current policy more narrowly, because you'd like to get rid of articles you consider clutter. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:13, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I just want to make sure the start and endpoints themselves aren't a random thing someone did once and decided to write about it, because even if the route is specified and it can be said that we can work on it collaboratively, we don't want itineraries with random terminii like Lubbock to Colorado Springs, Sendai to Matsumoto, Nice to Bern, or Monterrey to Durango, because that's just another realm with infinite personal variations. Texugo (talk) 19:30, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Pontianak and Kuching are two of only a few major cities on Borneo, so a closer comparison would be a "Dallas to Houston," "Milan to Rome" or "New York to Boston" route, not "Lubbock to Colorado Springs." So I get your point, but I think we should hesitate to be overly eager to delete. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:45, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Not trying to be overly eager. Just honestly not very familiar with Borneo. If they are relatively major destinations most area travellers would go between, it may make sense. On the other hand, if there are more than a couple of possible directions of travel, it can start to be much of a personal choice. I'm not sure I'd necessarily support the other examples you gave, despite them being major cities, because the possibilities can start to get too numerous, and having "Milan to Rome" invites the question, why not another article for Milan-Florence? and another for Milan-Bologna? and Bologna-Florence? Bologna-Venice? Milan-Venice? Florence-Venice? Florence-Rome? Venice-Rome? and every other possible combination. Texugo (talk) 20:16, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure it would be terrible to have those itineraries if someone wanted to create good articles about them. That said, this route goes straight through the jungle center of the island, and that differentiates it from all the other routes we're talking about. Perhaps you can imagine an analog by thinking about a Brazilian route that goes through the Amazon jungle. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:47, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * It would be a tremendous duplication of effort and a huge distraction from making destination guides if we started making itineraries between every possible pair of destinations. But at any rate, I think you've convinced me that this particular case is not like that. Texugo (talk) 20:56, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * To me, it's more like, if someone is motivated to make such an itinerary with a defined route that can be subjected to collaborative editing and it's a good one, more power to them. But in any case, I'm happy that this particular route seems special enough to you to pass muster. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:36, 20 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Would merging to Banana Pancake Trail work? Pashley (talk) 02:46, 26 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I would say no. If anyone knows me to be wrong, I invite them to correct me, but I would seriously doubt this is a "well-trodden route". Look at the places in Malaysia (only Penang, the Perhentian Islands and Melaka) and Indonesia (Lake Toba, Yogyakarta, Mount Bromo and the islands of Bali, Lombok and Gili Trawangan) that are mentioned in Banana Pancake Trail. Not a single one is on the island of Borneo, and if any were, the two most likely ones would probably be first Sipadan and then Kota Kinabalu/Gunung Kinabalu - both in Sabah, which is not part of this itinerary. This is a route between two major cities in Borneo, yes, but major cities for Borneo are not big compared to places like Jakarta or Kuala Lumpur, and this itinerary goes through virgin jungle in the middle of Borneo. I think it deserves its own page, much as Route 66 shouldn't just be merged to some random collection of US routes. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:59, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Result: Kept - Texugo (talk) 15:52, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Update COVID-19 box?
The information there is valid till 31 December 2020. It's 1 May 2021 now. Is the content in the box equally valid today? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:06, 1 May 2021 (UTC)