Talk:North Island

Cities
I trimmed the number of cities listed here to nine, but also took out some of the regional cities and replaced them with smaller towns/villages that travellers will visit. So, places like Whangarei, Wanganui and Palmerston North were cut and Paihia, Taupo and Waitomo added. If you disagree or think other places should be added/dropped, please discuss here. -- (WT-en) Shaund 00:36, 31 October 2010 (EDT)


 * Given that they appear under the "Cities" heading, I think Paihia and Waitomo are too big a stretch. (Taupo may strictly be a town, but it's sometimes thought of as a city, so I don't object to it being listed here.) How about we cover the Bay of Islands and Waitomo Caves under "Other destinations" instead? --Avenue (talk) 10:56, 22 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I'm not sure why I included Paihia when the Bay of Islands was already included as an "Other destination". I didn't think too clearly on that one. I'm OK with moving Waitomo to Other destinations as well since it's the caves that are the attraction.
 * The Cities section isn't reserved for just cities and towns though -- it's meant to include any urban or semi-urban settlement. The region template description of the Cities section would seem to allow for villages the size of Paihia and Waitomo. -Shaundd (talk) 04:42, 23 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, I've moved Waitomo down to Other destinations, and merged the Paihia description into the Bay of Islands listing too (although not mentioning Paihia itself).
 * I take your point about the Cities section potentially including smaller urban settlements. I just feel that those two items are better covered later. --Avenue (talk) 15:00, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Regions
The regions here are a mess, and there is considerable overlap. Would someone familiar with the area please try to sort this out. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:21, 24 July 2009 (EDT)


 * I think that a big part of this problem is that New Zealand regions are defined in different ways by different agencies. Each agency seems to have their own way of splitting up New Zealand, for their own purposes. These are based on the geographic areas served by those various agencies. - (WT-en) Huttite 19:42, 18 October 2009 (EDT)


 * For example :
 * Local Government NZ has the following regional names in the North Island : Northland, Auckland, Waikato, Bay of Plenty, Gisborne, Hawke's Bay, Taranaki, Manawatu - Wanganui, Wellington.


 * The tourism industry tend to divide the North Island up this way : Northland, Auckland, Coromandel, Waikato, Bay of Plenty, Rotorua, Eastland, Taupo, Ruapehu, Taranaki, Hawke's Bay, Wanganui, Manawatu, Wairarapa, Wellington.


 * Central government uses a range of definitions for regions. Perhaps the most relevant is that Statistics New Zealand collect tourism statistics, on behalf of the Ministry of Tourism, for these North Island regions : Northland, Auckland, Waikato, Bay of Plenty, Hawke's Bay-Gisborne, Taranaki-Wanganui-Manawatu, Wellington.

Suggested regions
Is this regional breakdown better? - (WT-en) Huttite 19:42, 18 October 2009 (EDT) :


 * Northland
 * Auckland (Region or greater metropolitan area - i.e. the Auckland "supercity".)
 * Waikato (Including the Coromandel.)
 * Bay of Plenty (Including Rotorua, Taupo in the northern part of the Central North Island.)
 * Eastern North Island (Including East Coast, Eastland or Gisborne, Hawkes Bay, Tararua or northern Wairarapa.)
 * Western North Island (Including - Taranaki, Wanganui, Manawatu and Horowhenua and Ruapehu in the southern part of the Central North Island.)
 * Wellington (Region or greater metropolitan area, which includes the Wairarapa.)

___


 * I think these regions are generally OK, my only big concern is getting rid of and splitting the Central North Island region. Lake Taupo and Tongariro/Ruapehu are fairly major tourist destinations from what I recall when I lived there, and they have more in common with each other (geographically, reasons for why tourists would go there) than they would with Bay of Plenty and the other regions in the proposed Western North Island. I'd prefer to keep them in one region and maybe rename it to Lake Taupo-Tongariro or Lake Taupo-Ruapehu.


 * A lesser concern is the "Eastern North Island" name. Hawke's Bay is another common tourist destination, so, given that we use local names pretty much everywhere else, I'd prefer to give it the same prominence in the region name.  Maybe Hawkes Bay-East Coast, or something like that.




 * Building on Huttite's proposed regions, I'd prefer to see the following (I've included subregions as well to try to give more definition):


 * Northland
 * Promote the sub-subregions up one level so they link directly to Northland (I don't think there are enough subregions to warrant two layers). This will produce:
 * Bay of Islands
 * Hokianga
 * Far Far North (can we just call it "Far North"?)
 * a new subregion to cover the southern part of Northland, Waipara-Whangarei or another suitable name


 * Auckland Region
 * The Auckland supercity. How it's organized needs to be sorted out, but that can be discussed on its Talk page.


 * Waikato-Coromandel
 * (note - the region name is different so we don't end up with a Waikato subregion underneath a Waikato main region.
 * Waikato
 * Coromandel Peninsula
 * King Country - picks up Waitomo, Otorohanga, Te Kuiti and Taumarunui


 * Bay of Plenty
 * The existing region with no subregions (although if we get sufficient articles some day East and West subregions could be done). Lake Taupo and the Volcanic Plateau pages should not link here.


 * Central North Island (or Lake Taupo-Tongariro)
 * The existing region with no subregions. The Lake Taupo and Volcanic Plateau pages should be redirected here.  We may want to merge Mount Ruapehu with Tongariro National Park as well (it's mostly part of the park).  You could also make a case to include Rotorua in this region rather than Bay of Plenty, but I'm not fussed either way.


 * Hawke's Bay-East Coast (or Eastern North Island)
 * East Cape (or Eastland) - I think we should include Gisborne in here as well
 * Hawke's Bay
 * Tararua - southern part of Hawkes Bay / northern Wairarapa


 * Wellington Region
 * Wellington
 * Kapiti Coast
 * Hutt Valley
 * Wairarapa


 * Taranaki
 * The existing region with no sub-regions.


 * Wanganui-Manawatu
 * This would be an amalgamation of the Wanganui (region), Manawatu and Horowhenua regions. Other than Manawatu there aren't many cities/towns in the area, so I don't think we need subregions (Howowhenua is pretty small and can easily be included in Manawatu, while Wanganui is quite distinct and covers a lot of area but is sparsely inhabited).


 * Alternatively, Taranaki and Wanganui-Manawatu could also be combined into one region (Southwestern North Island) with those two articles as subregions (or don't amalgamate Wanganui (region) and Manawatu and put all them with Taranaki under SW North Island).


 * This leaves eight or nine regions. I'll upload a map that shows most of the top level regions and some of the subregions.  It doesn't correspond to what I proposed exactly, but it should be close enough to give an idea of how things fit together. - (WT-en) Shaund 19:53, 30 October 2010 (EDT)


 * On further reflection, I agree with Huttite's regions... but not some of the names so much. Proposed names, region map and subregions are below. - (WT-en) Shaund 01:01, 9 August 2011 (EDT)
 * As suggested above, Lake Taupo and Volcanic Plateau content has been merged into Central North Island. However I made the Lake Taupo redirect to Taupo. Nurg (talk) 10:10, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * As suggested above, Mount Ruapehu has been merged into Tongariro National Park. Nurg (talk) 05:39, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Regions re-summarized
Here are the proposed regions:

Let me know if you have any thoughts. If I don't hear any objections, I'll implement later in the month. -(WT-en) Shaund 01:22, 9 August 2011 (EDT)


 * What exactly is wrong with them as they are in the article now? They look pretty good to me. (I have just removed Kapiti which was added just a few months ago.) Nurg (talk) 12:22, 1 October 2012 (CEST)


 * I concur - apart from some boundary issues, particularly around the Coromandel.
 * I've floated the TOC right and moved and reduced some of the images to avoid text in the regions spilling over onto the (proposed) map on standard width screens. --W. Franke-mailtalk 17:55, 1 October 2012 (CEST)


 * The issue with the regions is there's quite a few of them (about 12 or 13) and there seems to be some overlap. Having lived in NZ, I understand why most of the regions are listed there, but I'm not sure if giving a list of 13 regions is the best way to break it down for the traveller. I know Lonely Planet has quite a few regions, and when I first moved to NZ I found it a bit difficult to wade my way through them until I knew the country better. That said, I survived and found my way around NZ just fine with LP's many regions, so it may not be a bad thing. Part of the reason I haven't implemented the proposed structure above is because I'm not convinced it's any more helpful to the traveller than what we have now.
 * At the very least, I question the need for Horowhenua and Wairarapa as regions. Neither have a lot of attractions from what I recall and both could easily be part of other regions -- Horowhenua in Manawatu (Horowhenua only has two destinations listed and one of them is also listed in Manawatu) and most of Wairarapa is part of Greater Wellington according to Wikipedia. It also makes no sense (to me) to have Horowhenua and Wairarapa as regions at this level but not the Coromandel. -Shaund (talk) 06:24, 3 October 2012 (CEST)


 * I'm not sure which is better, many or fewer regions. In the map with fewer regions, I feel the loss of the Central North Island the most. Taupo and Tongariro have very different attractions, but I think they belong together, based on proximity if nothing else. --Avenue (talk) 23:00, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Shaund's last comment makes very good sense so I have added Horowhenua to the Manawatu article and delisted Horowhenua and Wairarapa from this article. Nurg (talk) 02:14, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 * In which region does Rotorua fall -- Central North Island or Bay of Plenty? I know, administratively, it's considered part of BoP. From a traveller's perspective though, Rotorua and Taupo seem a more natural pairing than Rotorua and Tauranga. -Shaundd (talk) 06:37, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It has always been considered part of BOP. Nurg (talk) 07:49, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

I really think we need to junk the daft (and outmoded) 7+2 rule in Wikivoyage and get back to putting the traveller's perspective first. This inane rule is just not appropriate for many countries and touring areas and especially for New Zealand. New Zealand naturally divides into two super regions: the North Island (including twiddly bits lying far north of the Cook Strait like the Kermadecs and Three Kings) and the "rest", that we should probably call South Island although it will include Stewart, Chatham and the sub-antarctic islands. If we could get back to a natural 9-14 region split in the North Island, then we wouldn't have all this to-ing and fro-ing! -- A l i c e ✉ 00:30, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Minor attractions in this high level article
I took the current See listings out because they are all covered in the articles for the specific localities. Someone else added them back in referring to Region_article_template#See. But that page says "This is for an overview of the types of attractions as well as the principal attractions in the region." These listings do not provide an overview. Nor are they the principal attractions in the North Island. All but one are minor attractions in a small remote area of the North Island and were put here by User:(WT-en)_Tramp, the business owner of one of the attractions, who put the same listings in numerous articles. I still think they should be taken out of this article. Nurg (talk) 08:15, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

OK, sorry, I didn't know those were touting. Jjtk (talk) 08:42, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Maori name
While it is quite true that Aotearoa was originally a name for the NI, these days it is well established as the Maori name for NZ, with Te Ika a Māui being used for the NI. Nurg (talk) 10:07, 22 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, I'll change it. --Avenue (talk) 10:45, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Languages and useages continually change and evolve so I have added a longer paragraph at the end of the lead with the two common names and translations.
 * Many South Island iwi are not in favour of the recent changes in nomenclature, but recognise that these changes may become irresistible in the same way an arriving Nigerian visitor to the US is now misleadingly hailed as an "African American" by politically correct immigration officials when presenting his dark green ECOWAS passport! -- A l i c e ✉  21:00, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Regions map
I've posted a regions map based on the 11 regions listed on the article page. It's generally based on the gov't region boundaries with a few exceptions: Let me know if you see anything missing or needs changing. Cheers. -Shaundd (talk) 14:44, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Central North Island doesn't officially exist so I drew it to include Lake Taupo,Tongariro NP and all thesurrounding roads.
 * It looks like Taumarunui is officially in the Wanganui-Manawatu region. I put it in Waikato with Te Kuiti and the rest of the King Country.
 * Included the Mahia Peninsula with Gisborne rather than Hawkes Bay - I think this makes more sense from a traveller's perspective.
 * Thanks for all your hard work and the magnificent result, Shaundd!
 * I hope we'll be in a position very shortly to ask you to do an encore when we've reached a consensus at Talk:South_Island in a few days... -- A l i c <font color="#00EEFF">e <font color="#FF3333">✉ 01:35, 29 January 2013 (UTC)