Talk:New Orleans/Bywater

I strongly suggest removing this silly warning. Philadelphia just recorded 11 murders over the weekend. Va. Tech recorded 33 homicides over several hours. Please quit stereotyping New Orleans as a crime-ridden crater on the gulf coast. It is a double-standard and is atrociously unfair. That is all.


 * I think Wikivoyage has been quite fair in supporting NOLA as a travel destination. It was a destination of the month a couple years ago, and we've kept it as one of the nine featured cities on the United States of America page, even in the face of snarky comments that it had been "destroyed" by Katrina.  The Understand section of the main page goes out of its way to assure people that it's still a great place to visit.  I don't know the current situation in Bywater, and maybe the warning can be further toned down to just a comment in the "Stay safe" section.  But if there's a part of town in any city that's generally unsafe for tourists, we ought to advise them of it. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 11:43, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

Removed Warning

I went ahead and removed the warning. The fear of crime in many parts of New Orleans (not all) is currently debatable and should be considered a political topic, not a fact. Especially not worthy of a warning. That warning certainly violated the NPOV standard.

If someone thinks it is important enough to detail, then one should write a NPOV paragraph explaining the "crime issues"- a debate that has many facets of opinion and few "facts".

In the end, a traveler has as much of a chance of encountering crime in Bywater than they do in most areas of most large cities. At best you could call that an "opinion". Hence, I've relegated this opinion to the talk section. The crime warning, right now, is essentially an "opinion", as well. Hence, it is removed.


 * There is no "NPOV standard" on Wikivoyage; this is not Wikipedia. A travel guide is inherently going to include opinions; that's kind of the whole point of the project.  So rather than demanding NPOV, our standard is Be Fair.  A warning box advising people that the crime sitation was bad in late 2006, and to check what the current situation is, is hardly unfair, especially since our other guiding principle is that the needs of the traveller come first. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 11:12, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

Although my research indicates that crime in Bywater is still a problem, the same appears to be true of the entire city, with violent-crime rates up dramatically, even over just a year ago. With that in mind, I'm going to focus on strengthening the warnings on the main New Orleans page, as opposed to tending to bruised egos and dubious arguments here. Might I suggest that rather than devoting time to sweeping Bywater's crime problem under the rug, that you try adding information to this article and the main NOLA article. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 19:33, 27 May 2007 (EDT)


 * FYI: Bywater has gentrified a good deal since Katrina. Since much of the area did not flood, housing values and rents have increased. Where as it was mostly bohemian types and young professionals, I'm seeing more and more young families with children. Many of the homes have been nicely renovated. By looking at the crime maps on the NOPD site it's clear that most of the tourist crime happens in the FQ. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 98.164.85.50 (talk • contribs)

Copyvio
An anonymous editor dumped the following in place of the Understand section. It's a copyvio from the Houston Chronicle, an article entitled "Harmony in the Bywater", which has some useful information which might be incorporated - but not copied - into the guide. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 11:54, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

"There are plenty of bars, restaurants and a few galleries. But for now there are no T-shirt emporiums clamoring for the tourist dollar and no typical attractions. Instead, something intangible, like a cosmic frequency heard only by a lucky few, is drawing like-minded souls to this bohemian little enclave." . . . "Bywater, New Orleans third-oldest neighborhood, dates to the early 1800s, and stands just down river from the first- and second-oldest districts, the French Quarter and the Faubourg Marigny. Many of Bywater's artists and musicians moved there from the Marigny, driven out when tourists, clubs and restaurants began pouring in and real estate prices soared."

. . . ". . . B.J.'s, one of three neighborhood bars comprising what locals have dubbed "the Bar-muda Triangle." The other two are Vaughan's and Sugar Park Tavern, all close enough to eliminate the need to drink and drive (though some patrons do pedal over on bikes)." . . . "Vaughan's may be the best-known of Bywater's many bars, thanks to the long-standing Thursday night gig by righteous trumpeter Kermit Ruffins and his Barbecue Swingers. A native son, Ruffins has recorded numerous albums (including the just-released Putamayo Presents: Kermit Ruffins) and toured the world. But he always comes home, and he always draws a crowd of fans, music students and occasional famous guests. A few, like jazz musician and composer Wynton Marsalis, come to sit in with the band; others, like actor Jude Law, recently in town to shoot a film, come to listen and soak in the sublimely ramshackle surroundings. . . . "The latest newcomers have brought change. There is Bacchanal, an instantly popular wine shop with hundreds of labels, terrines and gourmet cheeses. Several good restaurants, such as Elizabeth's and The Joint, have joined old standards Restaurant Mandich and Jack Dempsey's. There are galleries, yoga studios and shopping ops for beautiful cast-glass at Studio Inferno and vintage everything at the eclectic Bargain Center." . . . "Many are out-of-towners who stumbled on the neighborhood on visits to New Orleans and fell in love with the magic of the place -- and real estate prices half of what they'd expect back home." . . . "Lisa Rahon and John Delamater, whose brand-new but already popular Lookout Inn is only a couple of blocks from the river, believe they're at the right place at the right time. So does Carina Gale, who manages another inn -- the Mazant Guest House -- a welcoming 1870s home popular with Europeans and other value-minded visitors. Gale has overseen recent refreshing of the Mazant's 11 guest rooms and she, too, sees Bywater becoming a destination for travelers looking for something different in New Orleans."*

Country club
The Country Club is gay friendly? It should be described as straight friendly. I changed it. It is a gay club. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 192.135.177.251 (talk • contribs)
 * It is heavily, but not exclusively gay. Yes, such places shouldn't be described as simply "straight friendly" if it is not first made clear that it is also "gay friendly". :-) -- (WT-en) Infrogmation 14:28, 18 May 2009 (EDT)

Bud Rip's
I'm removing the below listing from the article for now:


 * Old New Orleans White working-class neighborhood bar (really old--1860s old). No sign out front; they don't care if anyone who doesn't already know where it is can find it. Cold Bud on draft. Open 7 days a week. Big screen TV's to watch "DA SAINTS".

My concern is Bud Rips' tradition of being a "whites" place not welcoming to people of color. (Despite whatever reputation this part of the US may have, that actually isn't so common anymore.) The listing was added by anon 32.179.64.142; their only contribution. I've been uncomfortable with it, and reworded it a bit, but without confronting the issue. I can't find anything about it online, but I've heard it repeatedly by local word of mouth. (The only time I've ever been in there is on Mardi Gras Day, when they supposedly suspend their usual policy briefly, in part for the sake of a walking parade with an integrated brass band that makes a beer stop here.) If we get reports, for example, that African-Americans have recently visited and gotten friendly service, I'd be happy to put the listing back in. Meanwhile, I really don't think we should have a listing for any place that couldn't be freely visited by people regardless of their color/background. -- (WT-en) Infrogmation 15:05, 11 July 2011 (EDT)

Geotagging
Sadly next to none of the listings here have geo-coordinates. Apparently back in the day when this was ranked "guide" we preferred hand drawn maps over dynamic maps. Is this still so? Is an article with no coordinates better than one that has them? Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:05, 18 November 2017 (UTC)