Talk:New Jersey

This is sweet. Great start, anonymous contributor! --(WT-en) Evan 12:30, 2 Feb 2004 (EST)

Whoa. New Jersey is the most densely populated state in the US? I used to live in New Jersey and that one's a shocker. (WT-en) Goodralph 03:09, 7 Jul 2004 (EDT)

yo, there are two cities listed as being the largest in the state. how is that possible?

Dividing New Jersey
This needs to be divided into 4-5 regions by someone who knows the state. --(WT-en) Ravikiran 06:51, 25 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * The official tourism site divides the state into the following six regions.


 * Delaware River Region
 * Gateway Region
 * Greater Atlantic City Region
 * Shore Region
 * Skylands Region
 * Southern Shore Region


 * Should I skip the "Region" at the end of the region name? The names look odd without the region at the end. --(WT-en) Ravikiran 09:06, 10 Feb 2006 (EST)
 * On further research, I find that the region names have been used without a "region" at the end. I will skip them for all except Delaware river region, and I will put disambiguators for Gateway and Shore, just in case.

This is how it will be. --(WT-en) Ravikiran 13:42, 10 Feb 2006 (EST)
 * [[Delaware River Region]
 * Gateway (New Jersey)
 * Greater Atlantic City Region
 * Shore (New Jersey)
 * Skylands
 * Southern Shore


 * I'm not sure I've ever heard that area called the Delaware River Region, but I can't be certain. The only reason I say that is because the Delaware River goes up and up through the Lehigh Valley and the Coal Region. the source of the river is actually in upstate new york, according to the Delaware Valley region of Pennsylvania, these counties are part of that, too. so, go figure how to fix that, because the "ispartof" code will start placing new jersey counties in pennsylvania if it's the same region. Similarly, Phillipsburg, NJ is considered both Skylands and Lehigh Valley in PA. Sounds like a problem for the committee. (WT-en) Jargas 07:48, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

Talk
Nobody from New Jersey ever says "joisey:" That's a lower class Brooklyn pronunciation.

The authentic New Jersey accent can be heard in the speech of natives like politician-turned-broadcaster Steve Adubato and Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito.


 * Took that out for ya.--(WT-en) Wandering 12:49, 28 May 2008 (EDT)


 * I added that some New Jerseyans can get offended if you make a joke about "new joisey". It's true. I'm one of them. (WT-en) Jargas 07:20, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

I used to live in New Jersey - there are TWO distinct accents - North Jersey (influenced by New York) and South Jersey (influenced by Philadelphia). Looks to me like the "Talk" area was written by some guys from "North Joisey" and almost insulting the people living in South Jersey. "Authentic New Jersey accent" indeed... (WT-en) gamweb 14:41, 8 August 2008 (EDT)


 * The back and forth over "Joisey" strikes me as odd. My paternal family is from the state, and they joke about Joisey/Juhsey accents and the mob (i.e., the state government) frequently. More to the point&mdash;when the heck did Jersey folk start taking themselves so seriously? Perhaps a step back from that "etiquette" section (should be respect, and btw the word "etiquette" seems humorous when talking about the state). I've found the only thing that ticks off New Jerseyans is to act pretentious, tell them that they live there instead of NYC only because they "have to," or to lecture them on the economics of self serve gas stations. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:27, 19 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Archie Bunker says it's "Joisey" and he's from New York City so I'd be tempted to place it downstate. NY not? K7L (talk) 02:34, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Understand
Someone has noted that in New Jersey "some parts are troublesome to reach even by car." It would be most helpful for travelers if you would specify which locations you're referring to, state the nature of the difficulty, and perhaps offer a tip for overcoming that problem, e.g., "arrive before 6 am," or whatever.
 * I took that out. NJ has a very high density wrt roads and it makes no sense to say that. --(WT-en) Wandering 10:12, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

I proofread a lot of stuff
I probably can't remember all that I've done.

I made a number of edits for clarity and to fix typos, I said the thing about "new joisey" being offensive to native New Jerseyans (mentioned above on this page, as well), I personally find myself saying "New Juhzzey", and I hear that a bit, so I added that in addition to "Jerzey" like it was on there. I also added "Howyadooin..." as a typical greeting. Everybody I know at the store I work at says that to me every day. It's funny, even to me, because I can't stop it without quite a lot of effort. Maybe I should take out the exclamation point, because when I hear myself saying it, I try to keep the dooin from becoming too weird, so I kind of keep my voice down at the end of the word. It really does sound like the Sopranos. Speaking of them, i mentioned that some people get offended by the Sopranos. Not many people I know are really bothered by it, but I've heard stories of older people, and other politicians trying to look good going on crusades. They actually do have a point, to some degree.

Also, why is the city of cape may and some of it's attractions listed in the "Jersey Shore", and the county of Cape May, which is practically empty, is listed in "Southern Shore" region? that's all I can think of for the moment, I look forward to contributing more (WT-en) Jargas 07:34, 23 July 2008 (EDT) ps, I changed my sig to jargas, though a lot of my edits will come up as Kire1975. I'm still trying to figure this out. cheers, (WT-en) Jargas 07:37, 23 July 2008 (EDT)


 * I understand the regions are from the state's tourist website, but I'm not sure they correspond very closely to the actual situation on the ground. At least as a South Jersey native, they don't make sense to me.  The "Southern Shore" region, in particular, baffles me.  Cape May county, with its Atlantic-facing beach resort towns, has muceh more in common with Atlantic and Ocean counties than with Cumberland, which, facing the Delaware Bay with a shoreline composed mostly of marshes, is not a popular tourist destination.  Cumberland and Salem counties make much more sense together, as they have seen the least incursion of development from either Philadelphia or the Shore, and so preserve a rural old-South-Jersey environment.


 * I understand the convenience of using the tourist bureau's divisions, and there is something to be said for the official legitimacy that such a state organ brings to this always abitrary process, but in this case the tourist regions do not match reality. They can be mentioned in the article, but I do not think they ought to be given such an important place. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 128.135.208.120 (talk • contribs)


 * I'm rather unimpressed with this regional breakdown as well. How would you propose we alter the regional hierarchy then? Bearing in mind that we do need well-defined boundaries for each region, so that it is clear where things go. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:26, 13 May 2009 (EDT)

Jersey Shore/Southern Shore Region
This hasn't been discussed for a while, but the Jersey Shore and Southern Shore articles clearly need to be reorganized. To make things simpler for travelers, either: I support the first option because although the northern and southern parts are different, people from out of town usually view the two as one region anyway and it seems strange to not discuss Atlantic City (which has the more name recognition than any other city in the region) in the Jersey Shore article. The Jersey Shore article already combines the two regions anyway, and the Southern Shore region is merely an outline so the first approach would be as simple as deleting the Southern Shore article and redirecting it to the Jersey Shore article. Also Cumberland County needs to be moved to the Delaware River region. I would like to see what other people think about this. --Apollo1758 (talk) 18:24, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) The Jersey Shore and Southern Shore articles should be merged together, or
 * 2) Atlantic County should be moved into the Southern Shore region.


 * I would tend to disagree that Cape May should be lumped in with Long Branch, but would anyone else like to express an opinion about your comment? Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:07, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Accuracy of a statement
From "Understand":

"Atlantic City, Princeton and New Brunswick are great cities and inhabited by the middle to upper class."

Princeton is very rich. Atlantic City has never been rich that I can remember, but has a lot of poor people. I don't know what New Brunswick is like now; my memory is from the mid 90s, when it was quite poor on its east side and had a lot of working class ("middle class", if you must) people on the west side, and then of course there were the Rutgers students. Highland Park across the Raritan was more well-to-do though not on the level of Princeton or the small rural towns to its south.

Anyway, when I think of "great cities" in New Jersey, in terms of size, Newark would be the obvious #1, though it's troubled, and Jersey City and Paterson would be the next two.

I think it might be best to junk the language in this sentence rather than rewriting it, but I'd like your opinions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:06, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Adding another major destination for routes between Cape May and Newark/New York
It takes more than 2 hours to drive between Cape May and New York or Newark. According to routebox guidelines, a major destination should be added between 2 other major destinations if it takes more than 2 hours to drive from one of these destinations to the other. Which place(s) should be set as major? This applies to the Garden State Parkway and US Route 9. JsfasdF252 (talk) 23:50, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
 * For the Garden State, possibilities are Perth Amboy and Toms River. I'd like to say Atlantic City, but that requires exiting onto Route 30 or the Atlantic City Expressway. Can intersections be used in routeboxes? For Route 9, again, Perth Amboy and Toms River would work. I'm not sure whether any of the other places it traverses are important enough to mention, but you'd know better. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:20, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Woodbridge is a better choice for a major than Perth Amboy, since it is far larger in population and the Garden State Parkway actually passes through the township and intersects with the NJ Turnpike/I 95 there. However, according to OpenStreetMap-based directions, it would still take over 2 hours to drive from there to Cape May. Toms River seems to be the best choice, since it ideally takes less than 2 hours to travel from there to Cape May, Newark or New York, and vice versa. Lakewood Township may also be considered, since it has a population of over 100,000, more than that of Toms River, but since these places share a boundary, both can't be used at once. JsfasdF252 (talk) 01:59, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Not an answer, but to anyone who's casually reading this and doesn't know what the Garden State is, it's New Jersey. -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 10:19, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * In this discussion, it's a highway. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:31, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

New banner?
I am hugely (extremely) not a fan of text banners, so here are a few alternates for your consideration. Thanks! ButteBag (talk) 02:46, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Understood, and thanks for the alternatives, but I think the existing banner is more unique (I know the phrase is an oxymoron, but I think the point is made), so I want to keep it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:47, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The image is just... pretty bad honestly. Maybe we could add "Trenton makes, the world takes" as a quote in the understand section? I haven't seen much drone photography in WV banners personally, but point taken that pretty much everywhere has roads and beaches and so forth. ButteBag (talk) 18:54, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think it works as well as a black-text quote than as a somewhat curious photo. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:39, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The text has been on the Lower Trenton Bridge since 1935, and the photo is a view from a train. I think that text works well in this case. If we do decide on another banner then the current banner could be used for Trenton. AlasdairW (talk) 21:47, 8 February 2023 (UTC)


 * I quite like the text banner, particularly because it's unique, for a similar reason mentioned by Ikan Kekek. Therefore, I favor the current banner. -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 11:06, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Huh, that's wild. Thank you for your input everyone! ButteBag (talk) 04:08, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Southern Shore (New Jersey)
I feel like this region is awkward in the hierarchy because Cape May County is considered to be part of the Jersey Shore and Cumberland County seems to be more closely associated with the Delaware River Valley. I remember removing Capy May County from the scope of the Jersey Shore article to avoid overlap, but I now feel like it was not the best choice. My proposed solution is also posted in the talk page, but nobody seems to have responded at the time of this writing. I would like to get this issue resolved before January 15, when the edit-a-thon begins. JsfasdF252 (talk) 19:51, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Central Jersey
The latest version of the New Jersey Travel Guide designates Central Jersey as a distinct region. Should it be incorporated into the Wikivoyage hierarchy? If not, should it be an extra region? JsfasdF252 (talk) 00:45, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I would say that it does not:


 * New Jersey is commonly divided into two regions: North Jersey (including Bergen, Essex, Hudson, Passaic, Morris, Sussex and Warren counties) and South Jersey (including Camden, Burlington, Gloucester, Cumberland and Salem counties). Sometimes Central Jersey (Middlesex, Mercer, Somerset and Hunterdon counties) is considered as a third region. The trichotomous division is up for debate; for example Union and Ocean counties can be considered to both be part of Central Jersey or as part of North and South respectively. For the purpose of this guide, those two regions are further divided into four areas.


 * I would say that Central Jersey is an amorphous region that some people think exists, and I doubt it's useful enough to be covered in an extra-region article (Upstate New York similarly would not be a useful article), but if you think it is, what would you add to the single sentence that is the second in the above paragraph? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:08, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I meant the travel guide at visitnj.org, not the Wikivoyage one JsfasdF252 (talk) 05:05, 5 April 2024 (UTC)


 * OK, I think their take on what is Central Jersey is debatable. To me, Trenton, as a suburb of Philly, is in South Jersey. There are also towns that I tend to think of as more characterized by being right near Pennsylvania than by being Central or North Jersey (Flemington, Lambertville). But of course all of that is informed by my being a New Yorker. To me, a place like Scotch Plains is in Central Jersey, but it really isn't, geographically. Anyway, there's definitely nothing preventing you from creating an extra-region article if you think it would be helpful. Would you plan to do it for the other New Jersey tourism regions we don't use? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:51, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Wikivoyage uses four regions; visitnj.org uses seven. It would be a big job to re-sort all of NJ along the lines of visitnj, and we risk them changing their minds in five years. If someone has the time and energy to take this on, I wouldn't object to it, but it's not a job for me. Ground Zero (talk) 11:17, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
 * We don't need to change our hierarchy to exactly match the one used by visitnj. In particular, the Jersey Shore region should not be altered. JsfasdF252 (talk) 18:27, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The Southern Shore, one of visitnj's tourism regions, was part of the Wikivoyage hierarchy until I converted it to an extra region, since it makes much more sense to have the Jersey Shore region extend down to Cape May County. (Visitnj's Shore region only has Monmouth and Ocean Counties, while Atlantic County is represented as a region to itself.) If Central Jersey gets its own region article (extra or hierarchical) then should North and South Jersey get their own region articles, or should they merely be redirects? JsfasdF252 (talk) 18:25, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late reply. I'm not sure it's important to have articles for North and South Jersey. Kind of like Upstate New York, there are debates about where one starts and the other ends. We made a call with Downstate New York, but there's no article for Upstate New York (just a redirect) and really shouldn't be one. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:39, 6 May 2024 (UTC)