Talk:New England

Sorry, I wasn't aware of the policy about not linking to secondary sources. As far as I know, Wikivoyage doesn't have any information in it about outlet shopping in New England (other than what I put in Maine outlet shopping) and certainly nothing linked from here. So, at least for the reference of anyone who might later want to add some in, http://gonewengland.about.com/cs/shopping/a/aaoutletguide.htm would be a good place to start. -- (WT-en) Beland 21:16, 21 Jul 2004 (EDT)


 * No worries, we all learn. -- (WT-en) Colin 22:29, 21 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Cities
The map shows Springfield instead of Lowell. Thoughts? (WT-en) LtPowers 15:58, 1 January 2009 (EST)


 * A cursory glance at the two articles would seem to indicate that Lowell belongs in the cities list, not Springfield. So I'd recommend changing the map accordingly, but then again I know very little about this region. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:42, 2 January 2009 (EST)


 * Taking a fresh look at this, Springfield gives us better geographical diversity than Lowell, and Springfield seems to have the more prominent attraction: the Basketball Hall of Fame. I think I'll switch out Lowell for Springfield in the cities list.  LtPowers (talk) 14:59, 2 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree entirely. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:00, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation
Isn't this much more famous than New England (New South Wales)? (WT-en) –sumone10154 12:22, 28 March 2011 (EDT)


 * I'm not familiar with the Australian destination, but wikipedia:New England links to the US destination so I'd be inclined to believe that the US destination might meet the "much more famous" threshold. Hopefully an Australian contributor can provide additional insight. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 12:26, 28 March 2011 (EDT)


 * Ok I'll rename this page to New England and if somebody else objects later, we can discuss. (WT-en) –sumone10154 16:46, 30 March 2011 (EDT)


 * This is done. The states under this region will need their "isPartOf" tags updated to avoid breaking the breadcrumbs. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 17:17, 30 March 2011 (EDT)

Other Destinations
New England could use some additional ODs as not all states are represented. My thoughts for Vermont were to use a ski resort. Stowe is probably the most famous ski resort in New England, but if the town itself is too big, we could use Stratton or Killington since in both those cases, the resort basically is the town. CT doesn't have an OD, but to be honest I don't know it that well and I can't think of anything that isn't a city/town. One of the remaining two spots could be something in inland Maine. Godsendlemiwinks (talk) 19:05, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Best I can come up with for Connecticut is Foxwoods Casino & Resort (largest casino in the world). We could use the Maine North Woods (3.2 million acres of undeveloped wilderness) as a second ME OD.  To fill out the last spot we could use either Lake Winnipesaukee in NH or Lake Champlain in VT. Godsendlemiwinks (talk) 20:14, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Punctuality
Is the same in all parts of America —The preceding comment was added by 87.130.10.85 (talk • contribs)


 * I would bet any amount of money that you've either never been to America or haven't traveled extensively within it. Either way, your statement is untrue. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 14:33, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Cities section
Does it have to be top 9 by population? Or can it be top by number of visitors, or "coolest", or some other arbitrary metric? Thanks! --ButteBag (talk) 15:30, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Good question. The most significant travel destinations is the best metric to use. Feel free to use your own judgment but also make sure there is a diversity among the nine choices (geography, etc.) --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 15:51, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * My contribution would be to say that if you would like to change the current lineup, you should make a proposal and an argument for it, so that we can discuss it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:00, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, good call. I think "most significant travel destinations" is a good way to phrase my idea. I am very much past the "beg forgiveness" phase of my contributions. "Ask permission" is definitely my current mindset. Thanks all! --ButteBag (talk) 14:36, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * There's nothing to forgive, my friend. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:11, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Ok, what do folx think about this lineup? I'm on the fence about a few. I'll add 2-5 sentence descriptions for the final ones, I think that's cool on region pages. I'd like to have this copy build on what's in the "states" section above (I'll update this too). I don't have a real need to fill out all 9 slots, I'd prefer "half short and twice strong".

Main questions relate to other destinations: 1. Which island to list? MV has more visitors, Block is a little obscure, so Nantucket felt like a good choice 2. All those mountains! Green, White, and Washington. Too similar? Mt Washington is in the White mountains, soooo... ?? --ButteBag (talk) 18:40, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Cities

 * &mdash; Capital since 1630, in a variety of ways Boston finds itself in the center of it all. Explore the Freedom Trail and Quincy Market, or catch a game at baseballs "shrine"; Fenway Park. Art lovers might head for the Museum of Fine Arts, while gastronomes will find no dearth of options throughout this "city of neighborhoods".
 * &mdash; Stroll Church street to find eclectic eateries and old world charm. From here, grab a cone at Ben & Jerry's before wandering the shores of Lake Champlain in search of the perfect brewery. The prolific green infrastructure on offer here is thanks in part to Bernie Sanders, one time city mayor.
 * &mdash; Best known as the home of Yale University. The city center has been called the "Nine Square Plan" since 1640. Today, it packs in a dizzying array of shops and restaurants. Don't leave without trying the coal-fired apizza, claimed to be the best in the world.
 * &mdash; The go-to "Downeast" destination for dining and drinking. Surprises abound in these historic neighborhoods, you might even spot a Sasquatch. The incredible beaches, views, and amenities available from Peak's island are often overlooked.
 * &mdash; Anchored by Brown University and RISD, Providence supports a booming arts scene and creative economy. Stroll the riverfront on summer nights to partake in WaterFire, a free public art installation. In the morning, wake up with a coffee milk from your favorite doughnut shop.
 * &mdash; "Walk the Cliffs" and take in the "cottages"; summer homes where Gilded Age titans would put on ostentatious displays of wealth. Coincidentally, you'll find sports with an aristocratic air to be popular. Tennis, sailing, and cycling all have strong roots in the area. Some 18th century buildings remain, and tourists love the colonial-era scale of the town.
 * &mdash; This calm harbor served as the Pilgrims first landing site in the new world. Much has changed since 1620, but the beauty of the beaches, the ocean and its sealife have remain constant. An artist colony since at least 1940, it's also a wildly popular destination for the LGBTQ+ community.
 * &mdash; Location of the infamous 1692 Salem witch trials, many finely preserved 17th and 18th century buildings remain. Boasting great transit options, the world class Peabody Essex Museum, and a variety of attractions; Salem packs in the tourists all year long. It gets pretty spooky here the last weekend in October.
 * &mdash; This four-season resort town holds the nickname: "Ski Capital of the East". Options abound for outdoor activities, as you're basically sandwiched between Smugglers Notch, Mt Mansfield and CC Putnam state forests. Relax in the evenings with fantastic food and some of the best pints in the USA.

Other destinations

 * &mdash; The only National Park in New England, Acadia is perhaps the most dramatic example of a glaciated coastal landscape. Dizzyingly high granite domes swoop down into the Atlantic, where surf crashes onto rocky beaches. First inhabited by the Wabanaki people, visitors have considered this place special for 12,000 years.
 * &mdash; Mount Katahdin resides in this massive wilderness area. The tallest peak in New England, it functions as the northern terminus of the Appalachian Trail. Visitors must be self sufficient, as within the park there is no electricity, running water, or even pavement.
 * &mdash; Escape to the Cape and explore nearly 40 miles of protected beachfront real estate. Ponds, beaches, lighthouses, and scenic wooded trails all make for top attractions. Established in 1961, which is quite recent for the area. As such, you'll find quite the range of grandfathered virtu sprinkled around.
 * &mdash; These federally protected mountains are Vermont's namesake. Okemo and Stratton are some of the larger ski resorts here. Popular thru-hiking routes include the Long Trail and Appalachian Trail.
 * &mdash; Distinctly rural, the agrarian communities here are set amongst rolling hills and seem almost frozen in time. Surprisingly, the terroir supports quality viticulture, and you'll find a variety of wines available throughout the region.
 * &mdash; Walk the 5 mile "Battle Road Trail" and follow in the footsteps of local silversmith Paul Revere. The trek culminates at Old North Bridge, where "the shot heard round the world" was fired in the opening salvo of what would become the Revolutionary War.
 * &mdash; Get your official "This Car Climbed Mt. Washington" bumper sticker here! Fantastic views, an alpine climate, and mile after mile of pristine hiking trails. Railfans can ride the steep and historic Cog to the top. Extreme skiiers try their luck shredding Tuckerman Ravine in the spring.
 * &mdash; Once the capital of a global whaling empire, today Nantucket is a charming seaport town. The entire island is a designated National Historic Landmark District; due to its wealth of cobblestone streets and well-preserved historical artifacts and architecture.
 * &mdash; Sprawling over 1,200 square miles, visitors will find a full range of outdoor activities on offer. Bag some peaks hiking the strenuous 22 mile "Presidential Traverse", but contact the Appalachian Mountain Club and plan ahead. Drive 34 miles along the Kancamagus Highway, one of New England's finest "leaf-peeping" spots.


 * So some thoughts about these lists: (1) We try to include a city from each state in a region, so is it a problem that there are 3 cities from MA and 2 each from RI and VT but none from NH? (2) I think it's OK to list the different mountain ranges. The Speckled Mountains in Maine are also worthwhile, although I'm not arguing we should list them. I think it's OK to list Mount Washington separately because it's a single mountain and the White Mountains are the range that encompasses all mountains in NH (I think). Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:21, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the feedback! (1) My thought was to go for the best of the best (IMO) in the region, no matter where they're located. (Not that it matters, but it seems like Fodors, Bradt, LP, Rough Guides all do something similar.) But I do agree it would be nice to have something from each state. (2) That's why I split out some of the NH stuff, to give that State a little more weight in the "Other" section. I think at this level (planning), people considering NH would go for its nature and not its cities. That's just my opinion tho... Thanks! --ButteBag (talk) 14:40, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I surely respect that. Other opinions? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:23, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I updated the States section, and now I'll start on 2-3 sentence descriptions for the "cities" & "other" that appear both on the page and in the list above. I don't have much free time, so we'll see how it goes! Thanks! --ButteBag (talk) 00:38, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Hey Ikan Kekek, it only took me a year and a half to do this lol. What do you think? I would still cut Manchester, NH from the list. But if we can't do that, I'd cut Boston. It's linked 100 other places, and we can place an image with a link there also if that's allowed. If we can't do either... uh... we could cut Stowe I guess? it's kind of near Burlington. Not my preferred option. Anyway, lmk your thoughts. Thanks! --ButteBag (talk) 21:43, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for getting back to this! On Boston: No way is it reasonable to even consider excluding it from a list of cities in New England! It's the obvious #1 city to list. Excluding it would be almost as bad as excluding New York City from a list of cities in New York State. Otherwise, like I said, it's nice in theory to include a city per state, but if you feel like the 9 other cities are more important to list than Manchester, remove Manchester. One thing to consider about Stowe, though, is that it could be an "Other destination" as a ski resort. But we already have 9 "Other destinations," so...go ahead and remove Manchester. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:51, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the quick response! Yeah, ok, fair enough. Let's keep Boston ahaha! I didn't think we could put any cities/towns/villages/etc in the "Other destinations" category. I thought even Nantucket was a stretch. Do you have any opinion on what should/shouldn't be listed here? Thanks again! ButteBag (talk) 17:46, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Normally, anyplace that could be in "Cities" can't be in "Other destinations," but if the main reason people visit is, say, to ski, sometimes we can fudge things. I may have more to say later. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:45, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok, cool, thanks for the feedback. IMHO Stowe is interesting enough to list because folks don't go there only to ski. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this list. Take your time! Clearly, there is no rush on my end. ButteBag (talk) 21:26, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The only problem that jumps out at me is having a red link as an "Other destination." I don't think we should do that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:18, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Hmmmm, could we link it to Millinocket? Are there any other cities/other destinations you think should be included? ButteBag (talk) 03:16, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
 * It's a somewhat idiosyncratic list of cities, in that it doesn't include Hartford, but I get the justification of including New Haven instead. I haven't been to as many of the "Other destinations" as the cities, but the list seems OK to me, if you can link Baxter State Park to Millinocket. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:32, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
 * To elaborate: I think a more typical list of cities would be: Boston, Bridgeport, Burlington, Hartford, New Haven, Portland, Providence, Springfield, Worcester, but the current list is more interesting for travelers, so I'm not suggesting a substitution. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:34, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Awesome, thanks @Ikan Kekek! I'm relieved your list also eschews NH cities. Ok, do you have any thoughts/opinions on the copy for each listing? I'm probably going to go over it again before updating the main page. Thanks again! ButteBag (talk) 13:47, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
 * To be fair, I don't think I've ever been to Manchester, so I could be biased. I definitely think the White Mountains are great and notable, though. I'll look at the blurbs when I get the chance, but I don't think you should hesitate to go live with these; things can and will be edited in the article, anyway. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:46, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Yeah the last time I was in Manchester, the effects of opioids were clearly visible. Admittedly, I have not been recently. ButteBag (talk) 22:57, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The city's become dilapidated? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:33, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Eh, it's like a lot of other places. Pockets of "hit" and "miss" all jumbled up. ButteBag (talk) 01:00, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Remove some sections?
Any appetite for removing a few sections at the end of the article? Seems like cutting these two sections would reduce the number of irrelevant/frivolous edits to the page. (These topcis are more subjective, so easier to fight about -- less policing for admins) --ButteBag (talk) 19:36, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Stay safe - The only helpful piece of info in this wall of text is about Lyme disease. And this is covered in United_States_of_America. I'm probably missing something, but can't think of anything to include at this level.
 * Respect - I'll be generous and say this is 50% correct. What would a traveler do with this information?
 * Go next - do we need this? Seems like the point of the entire page is to help readers decide where to go next. Feels odd to just call it out like this, but maybe that's just me.
 * This region as broad and diverse, ranging from rural Maine to the Canadian border to Providence, Rhode Island. I find it hard to believe that safety and respect information is applicable across this whole region. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 21:24, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
 * "Stay safe" is too long. I'd suggest summarizing and focusing on the important things, which would definitely include Lyme disease. As for "Respect", what do you think should go there? If you think nothing should go there, I think it could be deleted. Ditto for "Go next" - I think we usually don't have such a section in multi-state region articles, though it could be OK to mention New York, Quebec and New Brunswick. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:07, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks Ikan, this is helpful. I'll make some edits to these sections when I have some time. Thanks! --ButteBag (talk) 14:43, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation.
While I get the US' New England is much bigger in population compared to the Australian one, the Australian one is just as famous in Australia. And I'm sure, like many other people, I typed up New England in the Link, and I ended up in this page. While this might be a lot more important, the New England in Australia is significantly important in Australian terms. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 12:27, 18 May 2021 (UTC)


 * "... the Australian one is just as famous" It really isn't. If someone talks to me about New England, there's no question in my mind that they mean the northeastern corner of the United States. I'd never even heard of the other New England until the litter bin debacle. If you type "new e" in the search bar, you get a list of possible results; currently the second one down is NE (NSW). We already have New England (disambiguation), and that's enough.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:34, 18 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Or I should mention, in Australia. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 12:36, 18 May 2021 (UTC)


 * I think the majority of the non-Aussie world would be with me, but that's what we have these discussions for.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:37, 18 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Maybe the Kiwi's and PNG (and maybe Nauru) would go with Aus, but apart from that, you'd be right here. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 12:59, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Events section
I tried to pick a variety of dates, states, and topics. I also tried to pick events with larger numbers of attendees, but I'm sure no one will ever agree on the perfect event list. I just hope this doesn't create more rollback work for you Ikan Kekek! Here's some other ones I looked into but didn't wind up using: --ButteBag (talk) 13:57, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Jumpfest Salisbury, CT - Feb 7-9 2022
 * Patriots’ Day Reenactments Concord, MA April 16-19 2022
 * Blithewold: Gateway to Spring Bristol, RI April 16-24 2022
 * Boston Marathon Boston April 18 2022
 * Green River Festival Greenfield, MA June 24-26 2022
 * Vermont Cheesemakers Festival Shelburne Farms, VT - August 7 2022
 * Machias Wild Blueberry Festival Machias, ME August 19-21 2022
 * Great Falls Balloon Festival Lewiston, ME August 20–22
 * Franklin County Cider Days Shelburne, MA November 2–4, 2018
 * National Day of Mourning Plymouth (Massachusetts) Thanksgiving Day
 * Sugar Hill Lupine Festival Sugar Hill, NH - CANCELLED


 * Thanks, ButteBag. If any of these events (other than the cancelled one) is not listed in the relevant city article, please list it there. Likewise for the events listed in this article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:07, 14 April 2022 (UTC)