Talk:Munich/Archive 2003-2012

This is really a great looking guide! Wish I had had it when I was in Munich... nice work.(WT-en) Majnoona

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According to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/your_money/381351.stm Munich is not in the 10 most expensive cities of the world. -- (WT-en) Nils 05:12, 6 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Germanic cult?
User:(WT-en) Hhanke added the following:
 * There is a of people who try to live their own way (and grow their own food) with the least possible dependence on the government and outside sources. It's not in Munich directly, but somewhere near (more info welcome). I think they would be open to help any traveler, if one is polite, friendly, humble and maybe helps them on the field or with something else. I think this is not just a place to sleep, but also to get to know many interesting people and gain some understanding of their way of living and the reasons for it.

I looked at the site and it appears to be either a Cult or some kind of Anarchic Organization which has been accused (according to the likatien website) of being a place where child sexual abuse occurs. Unless someone who actually speaks German can vouch for this community, I'm deeply uncomfortable with leaving this in the main article. -- (WT-en) Colin 18:20, 24 Sep 2004 (EDT)


 * I know a girl, Marcela, who helps there, and she was a very nice person. She was not anarchic, although she was vegan and her worldview is definitely not the mainstream one. Never said anything bad about the comunity. She really made a good impression on me and I definitely trust her. -- User:(WT-en) Hhanke


 * You're only making me lean toward calling it a Cult. I think we all genuinely appreciate you trying to make additions to the sleep.  But a thirdhand account via a person whose "worldview is definitely not the mainstream" doesn't give me the warm fuzzies after what I read via the Google translator.  But if someone who speaks German could review the site and say that it's all on the up and up....  -- (WT-en) Colin 18:57, 24 Sep 2004 (EDT)


 * Rather secondhand. But I understand your concerns. Let's just keep it on talk: before somebody can check the site. I wouldn't rely on automatic translation. What I don't understand is, does it make a person any worse to have a different worldview than yours? Because I always appreciate such people. -- User:(WT-en) Hhanke


 * Yeah, I left it on talk because I don't trust the translator. -- (WT-en) Colin 23:55, 24 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Well, I have done some research on the above "likatien" community. It seems to be a kind of ideological, not neccessarily religious group of totaly about 160 persons. They call themselves a "tribe", and their name referes on an old Germanic tribe that lived in the area around Füssen, a town in the South of Germany where the center of the "tribe" is located. As they tell on their web site, they feel spiritualy closely related to the Hopy indians. The "tribe" is hierarchicaly organized with a probabely guru-like leader. Many of the "liktians" work in companies owned by the tribe getting some pocket-money for their own. Some years ago, the tribe tried to get some political influence by lancing members into different political parties. Resuming, we can say, the Likatian Tribe" for sure is controversial. I would recomment not to advertise it. -- (WT-en) Hansm 09:48, 2004 Sep 25 (EDT)


 * Nobody's said anything about this place since September, but the "tribe" does seem quite out of the ordinary and I think it is a cult - as tribe members are not allowed to have outside contact, and children are not allowed to continue their education. It seems to me that the tribe leadership is trying to protect itself from any criticism and internal dissatisfaction. -(WT-en) Sapphire 19:11, 8 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Hi Guys, Let me first clarify that I've only heard about the place yesterday and know nothing about it. However being involved in an ecovillage initiative myself, then I'm not surpriced about weird unfounded rumors and issues being blown out of proportion [one of the local villagers even call a journalist, telling that I had 5 wives and that they all were witches! I'm afraid I have to confess to only having one Catholic brought-up/pseudo antrhoposophic girlfriend...]

Anyhow, I had a look at their homepage, and lo and behold: there's even a page dealing with the mudslinging: one of the topics being that of the case of sex with kids. Appaerently it comes back to one uninvited long-term visitor who did something illegal with a kid(and as far as my german goes: non-penetrating!). It was discovered and he got a jail sentence for it. As most other societies the tribe makes it clear that they in no way allow sex with children...

As an experience 'communitarian' then I'm able to add that all our places would be a lot better and easier if they only attracted complete mature and harmonic visitors, however it's impossible to filter well enough...you may even be the next to come!??!?!

So there you go...Basically what this topic seem to be doing is to join the witch hunt against everyone who's not part of the conform consumer society...but don't worry...we're used to it and hard skinned ;o)..as long as you don't send in the Marines...(to get our bio-gas!)

-And if anyone of you are serious about travelling and learning how to help make the planet a better palce, then please czech out www.tsolife.org Peace and Love, Max -www.permalot.org


 * hi there, something in english language about the "tribe of likatien":


 * "Intentional Communities"


 * "European Ecovillage Network" (on the GEN-Europe memberlist)


 * "International Communes Desk"


 * --(WT-en) Deamaik 20:27, 8 September 2006 (EDT)

Transport
Just wanted to add further info on public transportation because I noticed that the article is not completely correct. For example, it is, afaik unnecessary to spend 8 Euros for traveling between the airport and the central station. Link On this website theres also a very useful tool which shows the best way to get to your destination after you enter your current location. 21:46, 2004 Nov 10

Dachau KZ
I added the Dachau Concentration camp under "see," because its a memorial and I thougt it would fit better under there with the Museums, Galleries, and Memorails sub section. Anyone not agree with that? It is a Gedenkstaette (Memorial). (WT-en) Sapphire 17:05, 16 Apr 2005 (EDT)


 * I was just thinking of moving the section and decided to look here first. As Dachau is a ca. half day trip out of Munich (S-Bahn + bus), I think it fits better in the Get out section. As the same time, people might miss that when skimming the main article. Is it allowable to have a shorter statement about Dachau in the See:Museums sections and say "see Get out section below". Then move detailed info could be given there (such as history, and how to get there from central Munich). -- (WT-en) Brendio 11:10, 22 Jan 2006 (EST)

My impression is that this belongs exclusively in the 'Get Out' and certainly doesn't merit it's present double inclusion (See and Tours) on theís page! (Not to mention that it's one of the dreariest attractions I've ever seen..) (WT-en) Jimbomu 15:56, 29 Jan 2009 (CET)
 * This is not an tourist attraction, but one of many memorials to the crimes committed in Nazi Germany. Unfortunately, I had to witness international visitors behaving as if it is sort of a Disneyland (posing for pictures on the beds in the barracks etc.). No matter where it is listed, maybe a comment on appropriate behavior would be useful.

Budget Hotels
Since Munich is known for being expensive, does anyone think we need to have that in under the Sleep section. (WT-en) Kingjeff 12:08, 3 Feb 2006 (EST)
 * Hey, isn't budget a relative term? Thus, budget hotels would be those that are less expensive relative to other hotels in Munich, even though they may be more expensive than other, mid-range hotels in, say, Berlin or other less expensive German cities. — (WT-en) Brendio 11:48, 4 Feb 2006 (EST)


 * For most European cities, "Budget" should mean backpacker dorm or really cheap hotels. Midrange hotels belong under "Mid-range". (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:07, 4 Feb 2006 (EST)


 * Is there cheap hotels in Munich? Because if there isn't any cheap places to stay, then the budget section shouldn't be there. (WT-en) Kingjeff 12:11, 4 Feb 2006 (EST)


 * There are certaining budget hotels in Munich. They just might not be as cheap as elsewhere. Okay, I will go ahead and add a couple. — (WT-en) Brendio 13:00, 4 Feb 2006 (EST)

there are definitly enough hostel type accomodations in Munich 84.57.120.254

Stay Safe
This should be ironic, shouldn't it? As I am not a native speaker it is hard to understand the intention of this statement. As I am a local, I am not concerned about it, but if I was from e.g. France I would be... --(WT-en) Flip666 09:53, 7 April 2006 (EDT)
 * Thanx for correcting this! --(WT-en) Flip666 09:53, 7 April 2006 (EDT)
 * No problem. I think I added that in a sleep deprived state and it really didn't make any sense. Although, I did witness several crazy incidents like that while living in Munich. My friends explained to me these incidents were a result of the changes in the climate. It was more of a myth, which really doesn't have a place in a serious part of a guide. (WT-en) Sapphire 09:58, 7 April 2006 (EDT)

The "Stay safe" section is pretty vague, isn't it? I read for instance: "Streets are pretty much safe, but with less forewarning than other European cities. If you start to feel uncomfortable, you will be VERY uncomfortable just a few moments later. Though residents are generally tolerant of foreigners, they make it well known when you shouldn't be somewhere. While you may still be safe, you should leave, and quickly. If you go to bars, the scene can change rapidly and (to non-Germans) unpredictably, so caution is advised. Subways run all hours, make sure you know your station between 22:00 and 5:00."

What does all this mean? I've been to places known to be pretty much more "unsafe" than Munich and I never met anyone telling me a part of the city is for residents only. Neither have I been to a safe bar or pub with sudden "change of scene" to unsafe.

Please consider doing something about this section, or at least describe a bit more so it becomes understandable. Thank you.

Bavarian/Munich Beer
I started an article about Bavarian Beer. Because I am a beginner to wikivoyage I don't want to integrate it in the main article yet. I am also not sure if it belongs to the main article. For now it is more about Munich beer... What do you think? --(WT-en) Flip666 16:52, 7 April 2006 (EDT)


 * The VFD on that one was inconclusive, but since the content has been merged into Bavarian cuisine and because there was no consensus to keep, it was deleted by policy. If in the future there is a need to split up the Bavarian cuisine article then this issue can be re-visited. -- (WT-en) Ryan 00:43, 20 June 2006 (EDT)

Headlines
I changed the "Clubs and Discos"-Headline back to its original state. I am not sure about the definition of these words in the English language, but in German a disco usually is big (>1000 people), a club is smaller, maybe even a bigger bar with a dancefloor. So there are many discos in this list, but almost no bars. Anyway, if you decide to change the headline please change it in the district articles, too! --(WT-en) Flip666 07:16, 9 April 2006 (EDT)

Wiesn?
Which district does the Wiesn belong to? (WT-en) Sapphire 16:24, 14 April 2006 (EDT)


 * Offically it is called Ludwigsvorstadt-Isarvorstadt. The central station also belongs to this area. So in our classification it would be in the City Center. I thought about moving it to this article, but I think it is such an essential thing, so I left it on the main page. --(WT-en) Flip666 17:49, 14 April 2006 (EDT)

Politeness
In the past years, I (a local) met several travellers asking people whether he/she's a "local". Please remember, that using this word for the inhabitants is common when talking about, but calling someone a local lacks any form of political correctness, respect and politeness. On my own travels I only heard questions whether he/she was for example hungarian, american, from Ecuador, from London, from Bangalore, indigenous - but never just local. I don't know why this is mostly forgotten by tourists here, but maybe you could add a section or at least a hint about basic social rules. Thanks a lot.


 * I am a "local", too. And I would not mind anyone calling me "a local". The literal translation of "local" is "Einheimischer", is is definitely political correct and not uncommon to ask someone "Sind Sie ein Einheimischer?" before asking him/her for the way. I do not know if it is political correct to call someone a "native" in English, but I would agree that it is not polite to call someone "einen Eingeborenen", which would bei the literal translation of "native". BTW, in WikiTravel it is considered polite to subscribe an article in a discussion ;-) --(WT-en) Flip666 09:47, 7 September 2006 (EDT)

Negative review
I was formatting the following listing according to our manual of style but it really seems to be more about why not to visit this attraction. I'd say that it falls under Project:Avoid negative reviews, but there is an exception for something that is otherwise heavily advertised as this seems to be. Anyone want to take a stab at rewording it to be both fair and helpful to travellers? (WT-en) Majnoona 14:04, 3 July 2006 (EDT)


 * I do think that the wording is fair and helpful as it is. This is the largest of something in Germany, so it is not so obscure that it deserves to be left out. &mdash; (WT-en) Ravikiran 14:31, 3 July 2006 (EDT)

But there is not really a lot of sea life to be seen. Nevertheless the light-work and aquariums are strikingly magnificent and make up for the lack of a good variety in sea-life, which one might expect. In fact, there are just a few sharks and no fish that can’t be found at a much cheaper place. Practically it’s more of a rip off.
 * Munich Sea Life Centre[www.sealifeeurope.com/de/munich/] Of the 9 Sea Life Centres in Germany, this is the largest. Costing around 10.5 Million Euro, and covering 2,200sq.m, the centre houses over 30 aquariums, including the 400,000 litre 7m deep 'Sea Life' aquarium - viewable from an underwater tunnel and home to sharks. 11.5 euros.

I have yet to visit this attraction but have heard only similar reviews from several fellow Munich inhabitants.. jimbomu

Just look at the construction price cant be to much - yes sea life are some fishes to walk through thats it, its not worth the money in my eyes.

Cabaret?
What's wrong with this? Strip clubs are perfectly legal in Germany, and if it's the city's oldest it may even be touristworthy. (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:47, 12 February 2007 (EST)
 * I had heard of other strip clubs in Munich, but I don't believe I've ever heard of this one. I'm also going on Philipp's statements (see Talk:Munich/City_Center).  I'm going to side with him on this one, because there is nothing that makes this place stand out from the other strip clubs.  Plus, anyways the listing doesn't belong on the main article, it belongs in the district article, if it's to be reinstated. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 00:59, 12 February 2007 (EST)

Horrible experience - first day in Munich!
Before we come to Munich, everyone told us the Muechener are very nice people. That's why we decide to come here for our family holiday all the way from Asia. Our first stops were Vienna and Salzburg. We saved Munich as our last stop because it is the destination we most look forward to.

We rented an apartment called the Hubmann in Munich South (Fritz-Lange Strasse 6). When we arrived, we were greeted by the owner Frau Hubmann in the most horrible manner. Even though we have already told her we are bringing our 18 months old baby along while we booked through the internet, it was apparent that she has absolutely no tolerance for young children. (She could have told us kids are not welcome and we would look elsewhere). She told me that I have to control the baby so he will not cry or make noises. He is not allowed to touch anything in the apartment such as the TV and the alarm clock on the bedside table. When my son walked around the apartment, she was watching his every move with disgust. And he touched the alarm clock, she yelled at him. He is an 18 month old toddler and of course would not take orders as such. And all this happened while my husband was getting the lugguage from the car.

When we decided it would not work for us to stay there for 5 days, we told her we would move out the next day. She became hysterical and started screaming at us in German. All the rude things she said about us being Chinese and about our baby (thinking that we cannot understand her German) She said we had to leave the apartment immediately. Even though we put in a deposit of 30% of the whole charge, we thought it was not worthwhile to argue with her and we started to pack up to leave. When my husband tried to help our baby get dressed again for the cold and raining weather outside, Mrs Hubmann told my husband to get the baby off the bed. My husband said he will as soon as he helped the baby wear his pants. Mrs Hubmann became hysterical again and grabbed my baby's leg and pulled him off the bed! Our baby was so scared he has never been roughed by someone like that.

All that happened within 30 minutes in the apartment. We ended up checking in the Hilton where we know for sure we will have some peace.

It is unfortunate that the first Muenchener I have ever met is like that, totally racist and unfriendly.


 * Hello!
 * This is definetly not how Münchner treat their guests. I am from Munich and I would like to help you! So please contact me privatly (click on this, then on the left sidebar on "E-mail this user"). I am sure we can claryfy this issue! --(WT-en) Flip666 writeme! &bull; 17:41, 6 September 2007 (EDT)
 * PS: I wrote an email to fewo@hubmann.net to tell them ybout your concerns.


 * I have recieved a long, nice and logical-sounding email from the owners, explaining their view of the incidents. Unfortunatly Mr. Lee did not react so far. If he does not, I will remove this entry, because I think that at least both partys are blamable for this incident and so this entry is more or less a "revenge" of Mr. Lee. I can guarantee that this is a single case among many happy Chinese people visiting Munich. And from the letter I recieved from the Hubmanns I believe it is a single case in their house, too. --(WT-en) Flip666 writeme! &bull; 10:13, 9 September 2007 (EDT)

2007 so remove it 84.56.69.198

get out section
Ill remove Prague, thats definitly to far away for a Munich get out section. Just think about how much else should be added if such a distance is ok Vienna, Bern, Stuttgart, Bratislava, Frankfurt, Venice, Milano...... just to name the bigger cities.

What are the criteria to add Salzburg and Nueremburg but not Regensburg Augsburg Landshut Ingolstadt ? 84.57.103.43


 * I guess the reason is that those places are less know. Why don't you add them. Especially Regensburg and Ausburg are treasures and can be reached quickly by car or train from Munich.

Maps
Wow guys, great article here, good work on this. It does lack some good maps though. I'm pretty familiar with the area, I think I'll give it a crack in the next few days (at least starting with city center). Just wanted to leave a note to see if anyone else was also working on this. (WT-en) hokiesvt 12:30, 25 March 2009 (EDT)


 * Nice map of the city center! This is indeed a nice guide to Munich. I would like to see it become a destination of the month, but there's one big thing holding that up: district articles lack "get in" information. This is one of the most basic requirements for articles, and I've actually downgraded the otherwise excellent Munich/City Center article to outline for lack of "get in" info. I know nothing about Munich, so I won't attempt to correct this myself, but if someone knowledgeable were to do so, this could easily get featured on the Main Page. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 02:07, 25 April 2009 (EDT)

Wrong line listed?
Andechs Monastery— If you miss the Oktoberfest, it is worth travelling to the holy mountain of Andechs. It's a monastery up a hill from the Ammersee. Take the S8 from Munich to Herrsching and then either hike up the hill or take the bus.

I was doing some research for my upcoming trip - they are listing the S8 but this source: http://www.toytowngermany.com/munich/munich_ubahn_plan.jpg (an ubahn map) shows it is the S5.

Which is correct?(WT-en) Logan9a 01:30, 11 January 2011 (EST)

Donisl
"If you want to get to know the real Munich then don't miss to visit the Donisl which is on the Marienplatz. It's not as famous as the Hofbräuhaus but it's a real insider tip."

Went there last week when I was visiting Munich, and I cannot agree. It is indeed centrally located, has cheap prices and the service is fast even at the busiest dinner time but the food didn't really live up to the expectations. The food had probably been waiting for us all the day and was quickly heated in a microwave, my Krustenschweinsbraten seemed to be made out of leftovers and one of us got a used napkin. I've been to Germany tens of times and the food has always been excellent everywhere - this is something one could expect in those destinations where the menus are written in twenty languages...

(WT-en) Ypsilon 10:18, 24 March 2011 (EDT)

Donisl is known in Munich as a tourist trap. The insider tip would be not to go there!

Munich West
It would be helpful to find at this place also some information about the airport in Memmingen which is marketed by Ryanair as Muncih west. Also I would be happy to find some information about the transferbuses from Memmingen airport to Munich. Thx -88.67.193.35 10:37, 25 April 2011 (EDT)
 * have a look at http://www.allgaeu-airport.de/ in the meantime, which has most necessary information (though scattered…).

Public Transportation Map
The Munich public transportation map in this article is outdated. The S-Bahn lines have been renumbered and changed. If someone refers to this map, he or she is likely to end up at a completely wrong destination. Hence, I'd recommend to remove it.

The latest maps are available on http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/ and I tried to upload them. However, someone obviously believed that there are copyright issues (not sure how there can be copyright issues with plans which are hanging everywhere throughout Munich and are distributed for free in hardcopy form, especially since the old plan issued by the same city-owned entity was posted, but I won't argue with that). (WT-en) AlexE 06:47, 27 November 2011 (EST)