Talk:Mid-Atlantic

What's listed for the East Coast is technically the Mid-Atlantic region. The East Coast covers Maine through Florida.

- CSP


 * Mid-atlantic is a much better term, actually. --(WT-en) Evan 16:10, 4 Dec 2003 (PST)

Cities
I'm not totally set on the cities currently listed. Perhaps swap Rochester for Albany? Neither are really great travel destinations though. There are, however, some more good travel destinations that are very small cities (like Princeton). If anyone ever takes an interest in changing the 9 listed cities, I'll be watching this page and will help out. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 02:05, 24 August 2007 (EDT)


 * Whoops, there are only 8 cities here&mdash;room for one more. I kind of lean Princeton, but perhaps that's unfair to the big Jersey cities. If we pick one of them, which has the most important tourist attractions? We could also list Hoboken. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:25, 9 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Hmm, surprised I missed that too. We don't have to have nine cities, of course, especially if there's no clear choice for the ninth one.  For reference, here are the available candidates from the state articles:
 * Niagara Falls, Ithaca, Syracuse, Cooperstown, Saratoga Springs, Albany
 * Harrisburg, Allentown, Gettysburg, Hershey, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, State College, Williamsport
 * Trenton, Atlantic City, Camden, Hoboken, Jersey City, Newark, New Brunswick, Paterson, Princeton
 * Bethesda, College Park, Cumberland, Frederick, Hagerstown, Ocean City, Solomons Island
 * Dover, Wilmington, Newark, Bridgeville, Dewey Beach, New Castle, Rehoboth Beach, Middletown, Bethany Beach, Fenwick Island
 * -- (WT-en) LtPowers 09:39, 9 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Any thoughts? Niagara Falls seems like a decent choice, as the falls themselves are one of the region's major tourist destinations -- but it's really close to Buffalo.  There are a lot of choices that are comparable to each other, but none that stand out like the current eight do.  Maybe we should just stick with eight.  (WT-en) LtPowers 18:55, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
 * User:(WT-en) PAWiki seems to like Allentown, but I'd prefer to see some discussion here. Why Allentown and not, for instance, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre?  The former is fairly close to Philadelphia, to the point of being in the same metro area if I recall correctly, and SWB also has a AAA baseball team (as does Syracuse, for that matter).  I'm not saying Allentown is a bad choice, but I think we should discuss it.  (WT-en) LtPowers 15:14, 26 December 2008 (EST)
 * Allentown is the third most populated city in Pennsylvania, after Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, and one of the fastest growing. In economic, entertainment, social fields, it is the third or (if you include Harrisburg for the simple fact that it is the capital--but has little other notoriety) fourth most important city in the state.  I also concur with the inclusion of Atlantic City, for the reasons noted below and the fact that it is among the most famed beach resorts in the region.  (WT-en) PAWiki 15:39, 27 December 2008 (EST)


 * Atlantic City sounds like the best choice to me. It's a large enough sized city and a major tourist destination in New Jersey, for which we currently have no cities listed. I hadn't thought of it when I drafted the initial list, otherwise I think I would have included it. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:09, 26 December 2008 (EST)
 * I've thought about it over the past week and I think Atlantic City is probably the best choice. There's a lot to like about Allentown, but I don't see it being a major destination for travelers just yet.  Remember, the purpose of the "Cities" section is to provide shortcuts to cities the traveler is already thinking about without making them go through the whole hierarchy; I think Atlantic City definitely fills that bill (and, with that reasoning, perhaps we ought also to bold "Niagara Falls" in the description of Buffalo, to catch said traveler's eye).  (WT-en) LtPowers 15:37, 1 January 2009 (EST)


 * Atlantic City certainly draws more tourists than Allentown. I'd also suspect Allentown draws more than Rochester, which is on the list.  (WT-en) PAWiki 15:14, 2 January 2009 (EST)


 * My hunch is Rochester gets more tourism from its festivals, but especially from university visits. We seem to have a consensus at least to include Atlantic City, but we can still discuss the inclusion of Allentown at the removal of another city. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:29, 2 January 2009 (EST)


 * Well, Rochester serves as a jumping-off point for the entire Finger Lakes region. It also has its own attractions, which are, admittedly, varied rather than dominated by one big thing, but that's not really a bad thing.  But yes, the festival circuit is certainly a big draw.  =)  (WT-en) LtPowers 21:05, 2 January 2009 (EST)


 * Discussion seems to have stalled -- I'd like to go ahead and add Atlantic City and the numerous Other Destinations we now have to the map. Any objections?  (WT-en) LtPowers 10:11, 15 February 2009 (EST)


 * Sounds good to me! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:42, 16 February 2009 (EST)
 * Okay, new map is up. I didn't touch the Russian and Spanish layers on the SVG, though.  (WT-en) LtPowers 20:15, 20 February 2009 (EST)

I just can't believe how much Wilmington, DE is left out on this article.

Its GDP, downtown, and skyline are much larger than Allentown, Trenton, Lancaster, etc yet it is not listed on the cities list. It's history of supplying the necessary gunpowder to win 1812, DuPont, the Credit Card and banking hub, the incorporation town, nothing mentioned. One of the largest ports in the United States? One of the busiest Amtrak stations? The border city for the underground railroad?

How exactly can you leave this city out? Really? It's RIGHT THERE on 95. Right there on Amtrak. It has 40 large office buildings that smack you in the face traveling south from Philadelphia. You can't drive from NYC to Washington without seeing it.

It's the quintessential Mid-Atlantic City. AAA Mid-Atlantic hq is in that city. It meets every single definiton - it's a seaport - one of the largest ports on the east coast, and is economically more significant than your PA cities other than Phila (Pittsburgh isn't Mid-Atlantic) and Jersey cities except for Newark and Atlantic city.

So sad how much this article ignores Wilmington - you can't get any more mid-atlantic.

—The preceding comment was added by 76.99.185.210 (talk • contribs)
 * Allentown, Trenton, and Lancaster aren't on the list either. We have to pick nine cities; which one would you remove to make room for Wilmington?  (And Pittsburgh is not an option; it may not be on the Atlantic, but Pennsylvania is a Mid-Atlantic state.)  (WT-en) LtPowers 20:51, 14 January 2012 (EST)


 * Despite growing up not too far away, I can't say I know much about Wilmington. Could I perhaps convince its advocate here to spruce up the Wilmington (Delaware) article? With the understand section actually empty save for a pointer to the visitor center, it's not making a good case for why someone should visit! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:44, 8 July 2012 (EDT)

2021 discussion
Can we revisit the "Cities" section? Why Annapolis, rather than Allentown, Scranton or Harrisburg, or perhaps Wilmington? I'm not opposed and haven't visited Annapolis, but I was a bit surprised to see it as one of 9 cities, and I don't see any discussion of it above, so I don't know why it was picked. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:14, 5 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Annapolis probably because of the Naval Academy. Allentown makes me think of the Billy Joel song and I associate Scranton with The Office. Mildly interesting cities, but surely there must be more interesting places in the region. Or maybe not... Nelson Ricardo (talk) 03:06, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguator
What is the parenthetical US of A here disambiguating? I'm not aware of any other Mid-Atlantics in the world and it's annoying to type. Would anyone object to moving this page to Mid-Atlantic? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:08, 20 February 2008 (EST)


 * Always thought this was weird, especially since Mid-Atlantic redirects here. Would support de-disambiguation. (WT-en) OldPine 16:27, 20 February 2008 (EST)


 * De-disambiguated. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:57, 23 February 2008 (EST)

Parsing words
Per Project:Tone, we encourage lively writing, and discourage people from parsing words. But more to the point, what the heck is the logical difference between "arguably the world's greatest city" and "one of the world's greatest cities?" How could one be pretentious and the other not when they are both different expressions of the exact same argument? Any "one of the world's greatest cities" could be "arguably the greatest." The only difference I see is that the latter is more weakly stated, and I don't like seeing articles watered down. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:46, 19 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Conceptually, I would say there are numerous cities on the list of the world's greatest, but only a small handful that could reasonably be considered the greatest -- and none has as solid an argument as NYC. IMO.  (WT-en) LtPowers 22:34, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

They clearly have very different meanings. ‘One of the world’s greatest cities’ suggests that there are other cities as great as NYC (like I previously stated on the edit page, e.g London, Paris), while ‘arguably the world’s greatest city’ suggests that NYC is better (greater) than every other city of the world. Please don’t think I'm criticizing NYC, I just feel strongly that there are a small number of other cities in the world that could be considered among the greatest. —The preceding comment was added by 72.232.23.236 (talk • contribs).
 * Yes, that's true -- but the wording "arguably the world's greatest city" makes clear that many people consider it to be the tops -- a distinction limited to only a handful of cities around the world. "One of the world's greatest cities", on the other hand, puts it on equal footing with scores of others that are great, even if no one really considers them "the greatest".  I guess I what I'm saying is that the more superlative wording is necessary to get across the true scope and prominence of the city in relation to other "great" cities (without disparaging the few other claimants to "greatest").  (WT-en) LtPowers 16:10, 24 July 2008 (EDT)


 * I'd disagree, "arguably the world's greatest" means that one can make that argument (and if you've ever spent a minute speaking with a New Yorker, you know that people do exactly that). In any rate, please do not continue edit warring&mdash;in case of disagreement, it's Wikivoyage policy to default to the status quo until people come to an agreement on the talk page. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:04, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I don't think we disagree; what you said matches my feelings. And I only reverted once.  (WT-en) LtPowers 08:33, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Ah, sorry, I meant I disagreed with the previous comment ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:32, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

Okay, I'm gonna let this go now as there’s no point in an edit war. I do agree with what you are saying even though I don’t agree with the wording used in the article. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 72.232.23.236 (talk • contribs)

Intro
Regarding the intro: geographically, isn't it more accurate to say the region is mostly rural-suburban? Certainly the majority of the two largest states would be considered "rural", or at minimum outside the megalopolis. I won't deny BosWash dominates the area culturally, financially, and demographically, but certainly not geographically! (WT-en) LtPowers 11:01, 9 September 2008 (EDT)


 * Please have at it, but it's probably best to emphasize that from a travel perspective, it's all about the cities. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 11:12, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Well that's true anywhere, isn't it? (WT-en) LtPowers 11:22, 9 September 2008 (EDT)


 * Not in Utah ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 11:28, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

Get Around > By Car
I'm from the Mid-Atlantic and in my travels, I've driven on most of I-95. While I don't disagree with the comments about rude & aggressive driving (something we take pride in), I don't know where anyone got the idea that I-95 "often encompass[es] a whopping 20 lanes". Maybe they're thinking of Southern California, but the widest I remember is eight or ten total lanes tops. Any ideas on how to fix this? I don't want to just cut it out entirely... —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Aure1ius9 (talk • contribs)


 * The "often" part is definitely an exaggeration, but the 20 lanes isn't much of one. I quickly checked the Garden State Pkwy just west of Manhattan, and I count 18 lanes at its widest stretch (at least I think there isn't any wider stretch) between Newark and Jersey City. I've revised the section accordingly. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:26, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

Images
I just realized this article has no photos! I slapped a nice one of Assateague at the top, but we need more than that, and I'm not certain that an OtBP destination like Assateague (beautiful though it is) really belongs at the top.

A few things I think should be represented: NYC, D.C., Philly, Jersey Shore, the Adirondacks, and Niagara Falls. Opinions? Photo suggestions (that aren't already being used elsewhere in our guides)? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 05:11, 17 October 2009 (EDT)


 * I don't have a lot of suggestions, I'm afraid. I took a glance through Commons' featured pictures, but the U.S. selection is heavily weighted to the west.  There's only one FP of Niagara Falls, for instance, and it's not even that good: Wikipedia:Commons:File:Niagarablue.jpg.  To me, as highlighted in the introduction, the Mid-Atlantic is defined equally by its large cities and skyscrapers as by its areas of natural beauty.  I don't know which aspect would make for a better lead picture, although we really can't ignore the impact of the NYC-Philly-Washington metropolis on the area.  Something like Wikipedia:Commons:File:Philadelphia skyline August 2007.jpg would show what is essentially a typical Mid-Atlantic cityscape with skyscrapers and a river in close proximity.  Just some thoughts.  (WT-en) LtPowers 10:45, 17 October 2009 (EDT)


 * wikipedia:commons:File:Middle Saranac Lake from Ampersand.jpg is a nice scene from the Adirondacks. (WT-en) LtPowers 14:23, 6 November 2009 (EST)


 * Heh, is your plan to fill the article with blue images? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:38, 6 November 2009 (EST)


 * Hmm, sounds like a plan; I'll revert your Assateague ponies picture back to the bluish version and we'll have a superfecta. =)  (WT-en) LtPowers 22:28, 6 November 2009 (EST)

Other Destinations
I'm tempted to replace Lehigh Valley with Thousand Islands; the latter seems like more of a tourist destination to me. Thoughts? (WT-en) LtPowers 08:59, 21 January 2011 (EST)


 * This makes sense to me as well. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:16, 20 September 2011 (EDT)

New York
New York State is never considered part of the Mid-Atlantic region, which would make no sense geographically, but always part of the Northeast. I see that somewhere along the line, people decided to arbitrarily lump New York into the Mid-Atlantic region because it's not part of New England. That's a mistake. We need to change our regional designations to match the ones in common use that are geographically much more logical. I would make the edit, but I think it's better to search for a consensus first. I'll say right away, though: If you think New York is a Mid-Atlantic state, with due respect, you're wrong. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 03:22, 15 October 2011 (EDT)


 * Do you have any idea how arrogant that sounds? Speaking as a born-and-bred New Yorker, the state has, in my experience, always been part of the Mid-Atlantic, which is a subregion of the Northeast (with some overlap with the South).  That's how I learned it growing up, but I'll be sure to tell my fourth-grade teacher she was "wrong" according to some random guy on the Internet.  For Wikivoyage purposes, grouping these five states works quite well, and there's no better name available, is there?  (WT-en) LtPowers 13:42, 15 October 2011 (EDT)


 * I've also always heard of New York described as a Mid-Atlantic state. Wikipedia includes New York in the Mid-Atlantic region, and the Middle Atlantic athletic Conferences, which dates back to 1912, includes New York schools.  I suspect there are other examples, so I would unfortunately have to say that Ikan's statement that "If you think New York is a Mid-Atlantic state, with due respect, you're wrong" may be a bit strong. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 14:29, 15 October 2011 (EDT)


 * I wouldn't pay much attention to the names of athletic conferences, but that aside, the better name is Northeast (which would encompass New England and New York), and I'm quite surprised to hear the Mid-Atlantic region being described as a "subregion of the Northeast." That would mean that states like Maryland and Delaware are called Northeastern states sometimes, and while that makes some geographic sense by analogy with calling the coastal Southern states the Southeast, I at least have not heard this done by people who live in those states. Anyway, it seems like I may have been a bit too sure of myself. I won't change my mind, but I will give up and try to remember that the consensus here and on Wikipedia is that New York, which borders Canada, is actually a Mid-Atlantic state. Sorry for causing offense. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 21:45, 16 October 2011 (EDT)


 * I'm honestly quite surprised at your conceptions of where the Northeast begins and ends. The US Census Bureau, for instance, includes PA and NJ in addition to NY and New England.  Commons has an 1883 map that shows the Middle Atlantic states extending from New York to Virginia, and the official U.S. tourism site defines Mid-Atlantic as NY, NJ, and PA.  It's a longstanding definition that wasn't just invented by Wikipedia.  =)  All "Mid-Atlantic" means is that it's the coastal states that lie between New England and The South.  (WT-en) LtPowers 07:41, 17 October 2011 (EDT)


 * Perceptions of what constitutes Mid-Atlantic vary depending on your location, I think. In Maryland, we are brought up to understand that the Mid-Atlantic is VA-DC-MD-DE. You probably wouldn't find locals in D.C., and rather few in Maryland, who consider themselves in the northeast. For our purposes, in any rate, I think the current division is satisfactory. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 12:04, 17 October 2011 (EDT)


 * True that it does vary, though I've never heard of the Mid-Atlantic being considered a region separate from the Northeast. Periodically, I consider whether it would be a good idea to add West Virginia and Virginia to this region.  Northern VA has much in common with Maryland, and West Virginia has much in common with southwest Pennsylvania; as well, The South as we've defined it has a large number of states that could stand to be pared down.  (WT-en) LtPowers 18:55, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

A bit hyperbolic?
"Every city is a melting pot of humanity with unparalleled cultural attractions, and every rural highway leads to another undiscovered gem of scenic beauty or country living."

Is it possible for every city to have unparalleled cultural attractions? Maybe some unique ones, but if they're all unparalleled in general, how is it possible (as indeed it is) to speak of one or two (to be precise, New York and Washington) as having a larger number of greater cultural attractions? As for the second clause, it sure looks like visitors bureau language. My proposed substitute:

"Every city in the region is a melting pot of humanity, quite a few feature great cultural attractions, and many rural highways lead to undiscovered gems of scenic beauty or country living."

I'm open to suggestions of how to improve that, but I don't think that including obviously false language is really useful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:56, 23 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree the current language sounds to much like the visitor's bureau... Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:17, 23 May 2016 (UTC)


 * It's supposed to. This is a travel guide! For crying out loud, every time I try to inject a little bit of lively travel writing, everyone goes all "visitor's bureau" on me. How come none of you ever bugged User:Gorilla Jones about Chicago? There's a nice quote from Bradbury on Tone that I'm forever grateful to User:Peterfitzgerald for adding.  Powers (talk) 00:56, 24 May 2016 (UTC)


 * If you're talking about the lede to Chicago, it's poetic but doesn't read the way this does to me. Is there a way to keep this writing lively without being too hyperbolic? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:11, 24 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Well that's the balancing act I'm always trying to strike. I'd rather have it lively and a bit over-the-top than dry and scrupulously correct, though. I'm sure anyone reading this knows that it's probably not literally true. Powers (talk) 01:29, 24 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm sure they don't, but that's not the only issue. Let's think about it and see if we can come up with something that is comparably lively doesn't sound too good to be true, because the problem with that is that could devalue the reader's opinion about the reliability of the article, just as is the case with some visitor's bureau promotional literature. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:47, 24 May 2016 (UTC)


 * How about "This region is a melting pot of humanity, full of great cities, unparalleled cultural attractions and scenic countryside"? All true and lively but not in my opinion too hyperbolic (although Europeans might question how unparalleled even the best art museums in the U.S. are compared to those of great European museums). Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:54, 24 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I may be biased, but I feel it loses some of the poetry of the original. In the lede I've tried to highlight the dichotomy between the great cities and the spectacular rural areas, and the parallel construction I used in this (the closing sentence) was intended to reinforce that message. Powers (talk) 23:53, 25 May 2016 (UTC)


 * It's great that you can turn a nice poetic phrase, but please work with me and see whether you can come up with a phrasing you're at peace with that doesn't risk striking the reader with a response of "Yeah, right!" Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:26, 26 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Well I may be a bit too close to it. Is "unparalleled" the only word you have a concern with? We could replace it with something else. Powers (talk) 21:11, 26 May 2016 (UTC)


 * That and the two uses of the word "every". Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:14, 26 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Are there cities that aren't melting pots and are without cultural attractions? Are there rural highways that don't lead to scenic beauty or other rural attractions? Powers (talk) 21:16, 26 May 2016 (UTC)


 * There are cities without unparalleled cultural attractions. As for rural highways, much as the WV:Words to avoid page mentions that "best" shouldn't be used for a restaurant of a certain type unless you've tried every other restaurant of that type in the world, have you travelled every rural highway in the entire region? It's full of pretty rural areas, but I'll bet there are some boring stretches somewhere. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:38, 26 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Well, if we're picking at nits that small, I should point out that it just says the highway "leads" somewhere, not that it necessarily passes through beautiful areas. And it does say "or country living", so I'm covered there, too. I will concede that "unparalleled" is probably too far over the top; do you have a proposed alternative adjective? Powers (talk) 00:10, 27 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't think it's that small a nit. Making that kind of claim about every rural road just doesn't feel credible to me. But anyway, milder synonyms for unparalleled would include "great", "superb", "wonderful", "unique", "excellent" and a whole host of others. Though whether every city in the region truly has any superb museums is probably questionable. I think the main point is that it's a region of cities with great cultural attractions of all kinds, not that every single city has incredible attractions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:28, 27 May 2016 (UTC)


 * This never got resolved; not a single word was changed. Any thoughts now, over 2 years later? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:59, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

It's funny ... I just went through basically this whole thread thinking that it had just been written. But I agree with you, the passage mentioned is hyperbolic. I can change it if you like. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk | contributions ) 07:16, 10 November 2018 (UTC)


 * It's more prosaic and less poetic, but I like it better. I did add "The region's diverse [cities]..." to restore a little more of the sense of the previous version. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:56, 10 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Right, sometimes it's hard to remove certain words and keep the important phrases there as well. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk | contributions ) 14:27, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Boardwalk fries
Apparently there's a debate about whether the somewhat extraneous mention of boardwalk fries should be in the article. Or am I misreading the last edits? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:31, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
 * There's no debate, as the IP user hasn't explained why it's been removed twice. Powers (talk) 21:22, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
 * But why is it mentioned? Hobbitschuster (talk) 02:06, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure; I think Peter F wrote it long ago. Powers (talk) 18:40, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah; [//en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Mid-Atlantic&diff=916748&oldid=916747 here] it is. That said, I'd be open to rewriting it; it really doesn't say a lot about Delaware. Powers (talk) 18:42, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Regions
Should Virginia not be included along with Maryland? It seems odd to separate the Chesapeake Bay States since they share a lot of cultural and historic similarities. —The preceding comment was added by 50.202.217.173 (talk • contribs)


 * Thanks for starting this debate. Your suggestion has been duly noted. Please wait for this discussion to take place before making this type of change. Wikivoyage works on consensus. Undiscussed edits like that are usually rolled back.


 * About the change you propose, IMHO it makes sense geographically, and less so historically and culturally. "Mason-Dixon line" comes to mind. I would even quote our region article about the American South: "(...) parts of the South (as defined here) are more culturally influenced by other regions. In Kentucky, Louisville has traditionally been a hodgepodge of Southern and Midwestern culture; much the same holds true in Northern Kentucky (i.e., the Cincinnati suburbs on the Kentucky side of the Ohio River). Northern Virginia (suburban Washington, D.C.) is now culturally Mid-Atlantic. While West Virginia is generally considered Southern, the northern half of the state is more influenced by the industrial Midwest, while its Eastern Panhandle is increasingly becoming a bedroom community for D.C."


 * However, the discussion is valid. Not being American myself, and having never been to these places, I wait for more Wikivoyagers speak their opinion on the matter. Ibaman (talk) 21:02, 8 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The place for this discussion is at Talk:United States of America, but I'd be remiss if I failed to warn you that you're not going to get any further with this proposal than the dozens of other alternative suggestions for what states should and should not be included in various U.S. regions. The fact is that the current way this site defines U.S. regions has been the result of over 10 years of painstaking debate and consensus building, which the community is very unlikely to want to monkey around with at this stage of the game. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 21:56, 8 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Yep, the current division of the regions is not necessarily perfect, but considering how many changes would have to be made to the U.S. articles for us to move Maryland and Virginia into the same region, I think it's better to leave things as they are. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk | contributions ) 05:16, 9 November 2018 (UTC)


 * For anyone who has followed this discussion, it has been continued at Talk:United States of America. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk | contributions ) 00:51, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

The Appalachian Trail
...is not IMO a good fit for the "Other destinations" section of this article, as it's not located entirely or even mostly in the Mid-Atlantic region: of its total length of ~2,200 miles, the New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Maryland portions comprise only a paltry 431 of those miles between them.

From a geographical perspective, it's also less than ideal that Delaware is completely omitted from the listings in the "Cities" and "Other destinations" sections. With that in mind, I'd like to propose the w:Delaware Beaches to replace the Appalachian Trail on that list. It's certainly popular enough as a summer getaway for folks living in D.C., Baltimore, and Philadelphia to merit being highlighted in this fashion.

What do you think?

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:51, 10 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me. The Appalachian Trail is an itinerary, not a destination article, on Wikivoyage. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk | contributions ) 15:57, 10 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Ikan, what do you think? Powers? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:08, 10 November 2018 (UTC)


 * I agree. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:09, 10 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me, too. Ibaman (talk) 23:11, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Crime
"Washington, D.C., Philadelphia, and Baltimore are particularly risky for travelers--they all are worth visiting, but have rough neighborhoods near many popular tourist sites—best to do your research ahead of time and avoid straying off the beaten path. New York, despite what you may have seen in the movies, is actually one of the safest big cities in the country, and you may rest easy knowing that violent crime has become rare in areas frequented by tourists."

I'm not sure about Baltimore/Philly, but saying D.C. is less safe for tourists than NYC strikes me as untrue. There are some sketchier areas in D.C., but most tourists don't visit Anacostia/etc., and the problems from those areas don't really bleed into places like the National Mall. - Sdkb (talk) 16:58, 8 July 2019 (UTC)


 * I've spent no more than a couple of weeks in either city, but on the basis of that limited experience I agree with your perception that DC is safer than NYC. Ikan Kekek might want to weigh in. —Granger (talk · contribs) 21:32, 9 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Don't statistics still show that New York is the safest big city in the country? If you all are feeling good about safety in DC, especially in areas tourists are most likely to visit, go ahead and write that kind of statement (though not one that disregards higher-crime neglected neighborhoods entirely), but I hope you have no plans to do it at the expense of New York. As for Philadelphia, which areas frequented by tourists are particularly dangerous? That passage might be old and largely outdated. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:59, 9 July 2019 (UTC)