Talk:Medieval and Renaissance Italy

More to add
The search function isn't working very well for me right now (it looks like I have limited connectivity, maybe because of the big storm in New York tonight), but the Abbey of Fossanova is a very important Medieval structure in Italy, so it should be included, and it should be mentioned in some destination article. What else should be added? Does anyone want to tackle Naples? Any other places? Perhaps Chiusure? Some other abbeys and such? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:18, 15 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Fossanova has been added, in the guise of Priverno. Chiusure probably should be added. The frescoes by Signorelli, though not as numerous or, last I checked, in as good a condition as those in Orvieto, are important (the other frescoes in the cloister, by Sodoma, are not bad and, as Mannerist works, arguably still fall within the purview of this article, but I'm really not sure - in music, Mannerism is usually considered a subset of Renaissance style, but I think in the visual arts, it's more sensibly separated from the Renaissance aesthetic), the intarsial work in the Choir is also Renaissance (early 16th-century) and the abbey building itself is a harmonious Trecento Medieval structure. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:20, 16 June 2015 (UTC)


 * How about Urbino? The Palazzo Ducale is apparently Renaissance. The Wikivoyage article is very problematic. Urbino is more helpful, but I haven't been to the city. Should we add it here? It seems so. And perhaps someone who knows the city would like to work on its article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:07, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Order of listed cities
Do you agree that the most logical order is some kind of geographical progression from north to south, with some logic also to movement east to west and west to east? I've grouped all the Tuscan and all the Umbrian destinations together (and by the way, Spoleto should be added), but the furthest north destinations don't have a neat geographical progression. Shall we start in Venice and have the numbers go up from east to west, then turn south, or would you like to suggest another order to the listed cities? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:14, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest logical subsections of either historical or current regions or administrative subdivisions... Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:44, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Considering that some cities feature both Medieval and Renaissance work, it's probably best to subdivide the list by region. Shall we follow the regions at Italy? If we do, "Central Italy" will have a bunch of listings, but that's the way it is. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:56, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * In lieu of another subdivision that seems reasonable. If Central Italy gets too long we might want to subdivide that as well.... Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:00, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Ottomans
From the article:

"Following the 16th century Italian Wars, the Italian states lost their cultural and economic dominance, and some of them were conquered by foreign empires, such as the Ottomans, Spain, and France."

The Ottomans occupying any part of Italy is news to me. Where was this? On the other hand, Austria should be mentioned, though I think the 16th century is too soon for them to have occupied parts of Northern Italy. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:08, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I think the Ottomans did conquer some "colonies" of Italian states in the Eastern Mediterranean. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:21, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think that counts, unless it's specified as such:


 * ''Following the 16th century Italian Wars, the Italian states lost their cultural and economic dominance, and some of them were conquered by foreign empires, such as Spain, and France, with the Ottomans wresting control of some of their possessions in the Eastern Mediterranean."


 * I will make the change. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:49, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Tuscan=standard Italian?
Is it quite that simple? When there's more than one "k" sound (such as a hard "c") per word, Tuscans traditionally make it an "h" sound, so that for example, "cocomero", which means "watermelon", becomes "cohomero". I seem to remember experiencing this from native Florentines and not just people from Siena, Massa Maritima, etc. So is it more accurate to say that standard Italian is based on Tuscan than that the two are identical? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:15, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Holy Roman Empire
A recent edit removed a reference to the Holy Roman Empire as a "unifying element". During the early and high medieval periods, northern Italy was (at least nominally) subject to the HRE and kings and emperors often rode down to subjugate "uppity" towns, mediate in local disputes or get crowned emperor by the pope. In fact the "proto parties" in those cities - The Guelfs and Ghibbelins (not sure about spelling) arose as factions in favor of the emperor and the pope respectively... Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:01, 18 November 2019 (UTC)