Talk:Margarita Island

Car rentals
Due to an ongoing edit war I've replaced the listings for individual car rental companies with a single paragraph that provides more than enough information for most travelers. Project:External links provides some justification ("Typically we don't provide details of national car rental chains in local guides. Providing details at the national level, and mentioning the name and location at local level is sufficient if required."). If people feel that there really is a need to describe these companies individually please discuss it here first, but given the edit wars that have been going on I fail to see how listing individual companies is enough of a benefit to travelers to justify the time it takes to continually patrol & revert edits to this article. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 11:58, 17 October 2010 (EDT) Thanks Ryan. The phone numbers for the companies listed by the anonymous poster were bogus. GRC has an office at the PMV airport and the anonymous poster was changing the posts to reflect that was not accurate. The anonymous poster is nothing more then a spammer. Jan and I worked to make sure I was within the guidelines and I would hope that you can see what the spammer is doing while permitting the listing back. Thanks (WT-en) MustSee 13:38, 17 October 2010 (EDT) Hi Ryan, I noticed the http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:External_links#What_not_to_link_to states " Rental cars operators, in cities where they are common (10 or more operating in the city). Typically we don't provide details of national car rental chains in local guides. Providing details at the national level, and mentioning the name and location at local level is sufficient if required." Since GRC is the only car rental agency in Playa El Yaque, if there are no objections, the link can be to placed under the Playa El Yaque portion. Thanks (WT-en) MustSee 17:35, 18 October 2010 (EDT) ^5's to Felix505!! No one can complain now!! Thanks, (WT-en) MustSee 18:23, 18 October 2010 (EDT)
 * OK let's try and grow this article now rather than just delete bits. In regard to the rental car listings please do not delete any of them without first listing a good reason for that delete in the discussion section on Rental Cars. A deletion of article content needs to have a good substantial reason, just not liking the operator is not good enough. The car rental industry has a notorious reputation for gouging customers and that activity occurs on a global level with the major players, it is certainly not something unique to small operators on tropical islands. If the info in the article is just out of date or the contact details are incorrect then set them right, don't just delete. If they have gone bust or just have one car they are renting occasionally then maybe that is a good reason to delete them but please state why here on the discussion page. Personally I think the list is too long but maybe now it can be edited down to exclude some of the less significant operators. Certainly there must be more happening on this island than car rental activity. Lets try and get the focus of the rental cars now and onto the article content as it is severely wanting attention. (WT-en) felix 04:44, 19 October 2010 (EDT)


 * There was another edit today calling out one of the car rental agencies as a scammer, so rather than repeatedly revisiting this issue I've removed the individual listings again. Project:External links is very clear about locations with multiple car rental agencies, and in cases of dispute the accepted site policies should prevail. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 13:08, 24 August 2011 (EDT)


 * (WT-en) Ryan it appears a blow through user left a comment, just making trouble and was given so much credence by you that all 8 of the rental car companies were removed quoting "remove car rental list per Wikivoyage:External links#What not to link to)". The blow through user posted "No car rental on this site are crooks". Did you happen to know that between July 15 and September 15 is summer high season in Margarita? Things can and do book up solid, it is not unusual. Why remove all of the work that went into getting that section accurate because of a troublemaker?


 * Correct me if I am wrong, but does it not require that 10 or more operators for "avoidance"? To obliterate all the work that went into getting things portrayed accurately, due to a trouble maker, seems unwiki like IMO. Is there any way to restore the work that was done?


 * Thanks (WT-en) MustSee


 * Since there are more than 10 car rental agencies operating on this island the policy about including individual agencies in the article is very clear. If an exception is warranted then a case can be made, but my take on it is that someone looking for a car rental will have no trouble finding one, and the article states as much.  This "blow through user" may have been a "troublemaker", but there have been numerous questionable edits to the rental listings in the past months so it doesn't seem worthwhile making a policy exception to include listings that are generating edits that question the legitimacy of the listed companies. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 12:28, 31 August 2011 (EDT)


 * I tend toward the viewpoint expressed by (WT-en) MustSee. This recent disruptive edit may well be just a blow through making some trouble, which indeed it appears they were successful in doing. The article appears to have remained quite stable for 11 months or so now. It also seems this island may have a few wobbly operators and the traveller may benefit from having some established operators identified to assist in cutting through the fog created by multiple cross over agencies and provider names that may be potentially misleading to a visitor. I recall that internet searches for providers on that island were potentially misleading when I looked into it last year. There was some considerable effort made to tidy up the previous issues in the article. I recall that (WT-en) MustSee works for one of the rental car providers and subsequent to editing conventions being explained he set about making some very positive improvements in the article including to the listing of rental providers and taxi operators, as well as many other more general contributions. My take on this is that recent problematic edit was most likely provided by a local rental provider rather than traveller feedback. Under the circumstances I think it might be preferable to just reinstate the article as it was and keep an eye on it for any further such edits. -- (WT-en) felix 13:42, 31 August 2011 (EDT)


 * I'm still not convinced that this merits an exception - from the old list, it sounds like the international companies are well represented and there wasn't anything that seemed to distinguish the local operators - but I've added a request for further comment in the pub at Pub. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 19:49, 31 August 2011 (EDT)


 * I think the policy linked by Ryan is the best arbiter (any potential "blow through" blowhards shouldn't matter one way or the other). We really only list individual car rental agencies when there are only a few, particularly if they are hard to find or uncommonly used. That does not seem to be the case here? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:14, 31 August 2011 (EDT)


 * Of the 7 operators listed previously there were 5 listed with offices or a kiosk at the airport. The other 2 have street addresses elsewhere (in Polamar). It should also be noted that we do not normally list the major national renters at this level, mentioning them in the section is normally considered sufficient, as in this edit. The extensive review last year sought to remove the shadow operators, especially those lacking an apparent physical address. The destination receives visitors both at the airport and at the ferry dock. It seems apparent that the traveller should be able to find sufficient providers at the airport upon arrival. The situation for those arriving by sea is less clear to me and they may not be as well provided for. The internet pre-booking situation is a bit of a minefield. The providers appear to be a mish-mash of agents and bookers with many appearing to only have virtual fleets. Providing the list in the article may possibly offer a little more certainty for those requiring a car rental.  (WT-en) Ryan (talk) is most certainly correct in regard to Project:External links (more than ten car rental companies available at the location) and he is also familiar with the history of this matter as he was directly involved in dealing with the content and editing issues last year. When endeavoring to clarify the list late last year it was difficult to find more than the 7 listed car rental providers on the island as the others, although numerous, were lacking sufficient contact details. Most of them were at that time working from an email address and/or a cellphone number and were of indeterminate physical locality. Hence my concern that although there are more than 10 operators on the island they are not of a standard that we would normally list here. Certainly taxi and car rental listings seem to cause more trouble than they are worth in a lot of articles. I did think that we had sorted things out fairly well in this article but both Ryan and Peter are entirely correct regarding WT policies in this matter. The only reason I can see to list them in the article is that the car rental market is potentially misleading at the destination. This is a problem at many destinations and we have felt it appropriate to remove rental listings and taxi listings from articles in the past as things can get out of hand and it can also be very difficult to determine the credible operators from the less credible. There was however a serious effort made to address that in the Margarita article. -- (WT-en) felix 03:03, 1 September 2011 (EDT)


 * I think the right thing to do is to summarize the information you've just presented in the article rather than attempt to present a list that weeds out the good & bad operators from the many operating on the island. Unless a handful of credible editors who know the island well are willing to constantly patrol this article such a list would be impossible to maintain, while an informational paragraph about the rental situation would benefit the traveler without opening the page up to problem additions. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 10:47, 1 September 2011 (EDT)


 * Ryan you are absolutley correct, "there are more than 10 car rental agencies operating on this island". However,
 * "Margarita Island (Isla de Margarita) is the largest island of the state of Nueva Esparta in Venezuela," http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isla_Margarita, it is not a "city" as stated in http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:External_links#What_not_to_link_to,


 * In addition, most of the companies that were listed were not "national car rental chains" as required to mandate avoidance. Since the rest of the paragraph deals with "national car rental chains", it gives no guidance as to local operators who would not be listed on a national level. My suggestion is to re-list the local operations only, since the policy is apparently mute on the subject of local operators at the local level. Thanks, (WT-en) MustSee


 * Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding, the policy is "ten or more rental companies operating in a location", irregardless of whether they are national, local, etc. As to Margarita Island not being a city, if the article warrants sub-dividing into cities then individual listings can be moved appropriately and this discussion re-opened, but right now it's the article into which listings are being added so per the intent of the referenced guideline it counts for the "10".  Note that the "10 rental agency" guideline isn't one that tends to get rigidly enforced unless an article begins filling up with rental listings or some of the listings seem problematic, which is what I see happening here.  While I appreciate that you are enthusiastic about having your company listed, given the reputation of some of these companies I think the Wikivoyage article is better off stating what Felix has said above and following the existing guidelines to not list individual companies. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 20:15, 2 September 2011 (EDT)


 * Hi Ryan, below is what I posted in the pub that for some reason, I probably messed up somewhere, is not showing, Pub#Feedback request: Margarita Island car rentals. I strongly disagree with you that the policy is for a "location". The policy is crystal clear that it is referring to a "city" (not a "location" as you state it says) and takes it a step further by mentioning the national level. As indicated below, and all of your replies above, you fail to acknowledge the difference between a city, a location and a nation. http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:External_links#What_not_to_link_to


 * On 8/31 you state "there are more than 10 car rental agencies operating on this island". Now you further state "the policy is 'ten or more rental companies operating in a location', irregardless of whether they are national, regional, etc."


 * Not to be argumentative, but let's assume your logic. IF the policy stated, "Avoid linking to secondary sources - for example, avoid links to: Rental cars operators, in (countries, states or regions, take your pick) where they are common (10 or more operating in the ..........). Typically we don't provide details of national car rental chains in local guides. Providing details at the national level, and mentioning the name and location at local level is sufficient if required.", how would a national car rental chain be listed on the national level? Surely there are 10 or more operating in every country. How about the regional or state level? Again, not to be argumentative but when I read the word city I believe that is exactly what the founders had in mind with this policy, not a nation, Not a state, not a region nor location. A city is just that, a city. Do you not agree?


 * It has been "Note[d] that the '10 rental agency' guideline isn't one that tends to get rigidly enforced" by you. Many, many you ignore the situation, while others you appear to remove for no apparent reason except the flawed policy logic stated herein, even if the article does not begin to fill up with rental listings or some of the listings seem problematic. The missing Pub posting follows:


 * []


 * Have a great Holiday, (WT-en) MustSee 03:04, 3 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 03:04, 3 September 2011 (EDT)


 * I think the policy means clearly that in this case we don't list them. Besides all that, the point of the policy is that we are asking "would it be unreasonably difficult for a tourist find a place to rent a car on their own without our spelling it out for them?" And the answer to that here is clearly no. (WT-en) texugo 04:49, 3 September 2011 (EDT)

Oh my gosh, things sure are confusing here. Ryan will not answer my questions directed at him here, so I posted them at the alternate pub posted by him. Now I am directed back here. Ok, here is what was posted on the pub;


 * Hey Ryan, I just want to clarify my position on this issue. Your statement, "I removed a car rental section per Wikivoyage:External links#What not to link to (more than ten car rental companies available at the location)," I feel, is not entirely accurate. The reasons are listed below.


 * "Avoid linking to secondary sources - for example, avoid links to: Rental cars operators, in cities where they are common (10 or more operating in the city). Typically we don't provide details of national car rental chains in local guides. Providing details at the national level, and mentioning the name and location at local level is sufficient if required." http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:External_links#What_not_to_link_to


 * The above referenced policy deals with "Rental cars operators, in cities where they are common (10 or more operating in the city)" and "national car rental chains in local guides". Margarita Island is not a "city", it is a State. Therefore, while there may be more then 10 car rental agencies operating on this Island, it is not a "city" and the policy about including individual local agencies in the article is not very clear except to say that national car rental chains at the local level need only be mentioned.


 * In the State of Florida, http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Florida, 8 rental car companies have been listed, 4 with links to their web sites. The "city" of Tampa, http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Tampa, list 8 "national car rental chains" and one local company, all with links. The city of Tampa has 10 or more "rental car operators" operating within that city.


 * This is common place on wikivoyage, if more examples are needed I can supply 100's more that violate the above mentioned policy. By removing the "national car rental chains" from the individual listings that you removed, it would be within policy. So if there are no objections I will rework the list to be policy compliant. Thanks, (WT-en) MustSee 16:28, 2 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 16:28, 2 September 2011 (EDT)

I am somewhat baffled at how y'all consider a State a "city" or misinterpret "city" as a "location". Am I missing something from the policy quoted? When I read the word city, I do not confuse it with a state.


 * By removing the details of the national car rental chains that are mentioned in the text below, since they are listed on a national level and Margarita Island is not a city as required for exclusion in the policy quoted, this now falls within WT established policy. In addition, the operators listed below are all licensed and are genuine car rental companies, saving the traveler the potential hassle of dealing with a third party or an unlicensed company. This gives the traveler the information they need to decide on their own. I propose the following addition if there are no legitimate objections.


 * Rental cars are available from major chains such as Avis, Budget and Hertz, as well as local operators. Always use common sense when renting and make sure to check for any hidden costs and levies that may appear when you return the car. To rent a car you will need a current driver’s license and a passport. Make sure you have adequate insurance cover any loss or purchase a Collision Damage Waiver and do not leave your passport, drivers licence, or any other important documentation with the rental company as a security deposit. Thoroughly check over the vehicle including the glass and all panels for any damage and have the salesperson initial a damage record. If in doubt at all photograph the vehicle from all sides prior to taking delivery. Ensure you check the gas tank prior to the rental and at return. Check the vehicle over thoroughly before you leave the depot to ensure everything is functioning on the vehicle and that it is roadworthy.










 * Scooter motorbike and moped hire




 * If considering making a trip to the mainland on the ferry and taking a rental vehicle with you then please ensure beforehand that your rental and insurance contract permits the vehicle traveling off the island.
 * (WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)
 * (WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)


 * It is not helpful for this discussion to happen in two places, and Ryan's comment above was only a pointer to the actual discussion at Talk:Margarita Island. Please keep all discussion there. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:22, 11 September 2011 (EDT)

http://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Wikivoyage:Travellers%27_pub&action=edit&section=37

(WT-en) MustSee 20:59, 11 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee


 * It seems you are having trouble understanding that the policy refers to cities because region articles typically shouldn't contain any individual listings whatsoever -- that stuff belongs down at the city level. In this case, however, the region doesn't have enough city articles under it to contain the individual listings, so by chance it is this article receiving the listings. I don't in any way think that this makes it exempt from the policy-- I agree with (WT-en) Ryan. (WT-en) texugo 21:38, 11 September 2011 (EDT)


 * Hey there texudo, I guess I am having trouble understanding the word city. Ryan states that city means location and now you bring in regions. I am at a loss. I have spent countless hours looking at WT policy and guidelines and cannot find any that back up what is being told to me. Can you please help a gal out here and point them out? Nowhere in any region were any listings present. Thanks, (WT-en) MustSee 08:30, 12 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 08:30, 12 September 2011 (EDT)


 * Um.. Well, this article is a region article, and it has had listings in it, which is a bit of an oddity necessitated by the fact that there aren't city articles for most of the listings to go in. Ryan's point is that the policy is designed to apply to articles that have listings, which is usually a city article, but that the policy nevertheless applies also in this case even though it's actually a region article. The reason is the same -- because it's an article that has listings. (WT-en) texugo 09:26, 12 September 2011 (EDT)


 * Now you really have this gals head spinning. I thought Nueva Esparta was the region article. Is Margarita Island also a region? The regions listed are;

Antolín del Campo - La Plaza de Paraguachí Arismendi - La Asunción Díaz - Parroquia San Juan Bautista García - El Valle del Espíritu Santo Gómez - Santa Ana Maneiro - Pampatar Marcano - Juan Griego Mariño - Porlamar Macanao - Boca del Río Tubores - Punta de Piedras Villalba - San Pedro de Coche There were no listings in any of those regions. How does one determine if it is a region article? Maybe just listing the companies without the links will solve the problem since the policy stated has to do with external links? I think I need an Excedrin now. Thanks (WT-en) MustSee 18:22, 12 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 18:22, 12 September 2011 (EDT)


 * Project:Geographical hierarchy has the official site policy. I don't know the geography of Margarita Island, but "regions" are articles that are used to group lower-level articles for organizational purposes, and listings for individual business should go in the lowest level article in the hierarchy. For example, where I live is:
 * North America (continent/region)
 * &rarr; United States of America (country/region)
 * &rarr; California (state/region)
 * &rarr; Southern California (region)
 * &rarr; Los Angeles County (region)
 * &rarr; West Side (Los Angeles County) (region)
 * &rarr; Culver City (city).
 * As a result, listings for individual business go in the Culver City article. If the cities in a region are too small to warrant their own articles, or if the region doesn't have towns/cities, then the lowest level region would contain the individual business listings - see for example:
 * South America (continent/region)
 * &rarr; Falkland Islands (country/region)
 * &rarr; Pebble Island (island/region).


 * In your case, Margarita Island was the lowest level of the hierarchy. If that has changed with some of your recent edits and there is a lower-level article that is a more appropriate place for business listings then they can be moved appropriately. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 18:51, 12 September 2011 (EDT)


 * I need a drink, lol. I just want to post the 4 local operators and am at a loss. Make that a double, please. Can you please be more specific where to place the local operators? Thanks (WT-en) MustSee 21:08, 12 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 21:08, 12 September 2011 (EDT)


 * Lets see if I can simplify. 1) This is a region article; region articles should not have listings—listings should be placed in city articles. Thus, car rental listings should not be put in this article.


 * 2) If there are less than 10 total car rentals in a city, then it is OK to put them in. It is not relevant whether the operator is national or local. So, if Juan Griego has less than 10 total car rentals in the city, it would be fine to put car rental listings into that article. Clear? ;)  --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:58, 12 September 2011 (EDT)


 * And for why we have this car rental policy—we've had a lot of problems with car agencies spamming our guides. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:59, 12 September 2011 (EDT)
 * I think I got it now. Wow Margarita Island sounds boring now, lol. Cheers (WT-en) MustSee 08:17, 13 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 08:17, 13 September 2011 (EDT)

List of rental car ops as at 25 oct 2010
'''For editing and development on the Discussion page. Most importantly the issue of the operation being Licensed to Operate and having a Physical street address ''' Scooter motorbike and moped hire

Medical clinics
(WT-en) MustSee you seem to have some local knowledge, maybe you would like to check the phone number formatting for the medical clinics and confirm the area codes and locality descriptions are correct. It strikes me the addresses/localities could do with a bit more detail and confirmation that the contact details currently in the article are correct. Thanks if you can assist. (WT-en) felix 00:46, 19 October 2010 (EDT)


 * The phone formatting is fine for those calling internationally. Local calling is different. The localitly descriptions are also fine. There are few actual street addresses here. Take "Centro Clínica Margarita". Centro is the street, Clínica is the clinic and of course Margarita is the state. Saying the clinic on Centro street in Margarita tells everyone where it is. (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010


 * Dental work is quite reasonable on Margarita Island. If anyone needs a dentist while on vacation, Dra. Susana Mitchell Speaks English. She was educated in Miami, Florida and is located at Av. Circunvalacion Norte, Piso 1 office B-7, Los Robles. Her office number is 58 295 414 6040 and her cell phone number is 58 416 695 3192. Professionals here give their cell phone numbers rather then have a service screen the calls. (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010


 * MustSee ...please don't forget to sign with ~ so we know who has written something. Also using an indent by typing : will help a little. I have done it retrospectively on your 2 paragraphs above so you can see the effect. When a further comment is made (such as this one) 2 :: can be used and so forth...


 * Yes, that dentist info a good thing to put into the Stay healthy section. The content must be stated in an 'objective' manner though ...here is an example of how this dental service could be listed using the appropriate WT formatting and style:




 * It could then look like this, listed in the Stay healthy section....
 * Dental work is normally quite reasonably priced on Margarita Island. Many dentists have modern facilities and have trained in the US or EU.
 * I have just gone ahead and put this into the article as above. (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)
 * I have just gone ahead and put this into the article as above. (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Sleep Eat and Drink
Surely there must be more than 3 places to stay on this island. It would be most helpful if editors familiar with the location could work up some detail for some more listings. Prefereably split into 3 sub-sections for Budget, Mid-range, Splurge and Villas.


 * Good work MustSee this is the sort of content that can help develop this article. Make sure you use the WT formatting appropriate to the listing. In this case it would be:
 * Hotels: *
 * and
 * Restaurants: *
 * You can find these at the bottom of the edit page, just click on the appropriate one and it will be entered into the text edit area of the page, then fill in the details.
 * (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Please use the below as a guideline for formatting the section (WT-en) felix 04:44, 19 October 2010 (EDT)(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Sleep
Keep in mind that the beds in many hotels (mostly up to the mid-range levels) are nothing more than mattresses on concrete slabs that resemble box springs. Depending on what your sleep preference is, they may not be the most comfortable for you. Something for you to consider when looking for a hotel to stay at. Many are opting for a self catering condo over a hotel. When one compares prices they may learn that a self catering condo is preferred over a hotel. In a condo one pays a per night fee, not a per person fee. In addition, when staying in a self catering condo one has the option of eating in or eating out. Don't be surprised if your email goes unanswered. Many operators do not dedicate anyone to handle responding to online inquiries.

Budget
please make sure to use appropriate WT formatting such as:

*

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Las Trinitarias, posada (Bed & Breakfast),local family owned & opperated establishment with 8 rooms that have private bath daily cleaning service Air Conditioning swimming pool and cable TV. Location sector Alto Rosas, El Cardon, Antolin de Campo. Phone 58 295 416 7112, website http://www.lastrinitarias.com.ve (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

For example using * the listing for Posada Las Trinitarias could look like this:

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Guesthouse La Casa De Maria, breakfast included (except Sunday), airport pick up, free internet access, address Playa El Angel, Calle Petronila Mata, Casa María A-38 Phone 58 416 399 6435 (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Mid-range
please make sure to use appropriate WT formatting such as:

*

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Margarita Island Condos offer rental condos to choose from with a style of their own. Margarita Island Condos are fully equipped and are offered by the day, week or month. Phone 58 295 772 8600,58 416 398 9034 http://www.margaritaislandcondos.com/ (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Using * the listing for Margarita Island Condos could look like this:



(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)


 * Comments on the Margarita Island Condos listing and my rewrite of it:
 * We need to describe what "with a style of their own" means, ie. is it modern, clean, basic, rustic, contemporary euro styling, tired second hand 1980's hand downs from someone's real house or something similar. I used "tidy and clean but the decor and furnishings are a little dated" The web promotion of these properties has self described "tasteful" on their website it must always be understood that what may be "tastefull" to some may be downright horrible to others. In this case the photos look reasonably OK but I used description as based on the information available the available apartments have a somewhat 'dated' look to them. Remember of course to make it as objective as possible, if you really don't know then just keep it basic, hopefully someone else will develop the listing later. This does not denigrate the properties, rather it should just describe them as objectively as possible. Indeed in this example they would to opulent for some people, be perfect for some others but then not anywhere stylish enough for some others. (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Margarita Tropical Villa is a Bed & Breakfast / Posada that has 10 rooms, a pool, fridge, DirecTV, free DSL Internet & Wi-Fi, A/C, king-size beds, microwave, toaster, water cooler, iron, hair dryer & a free breakfast. Location La Mira, Playa El Agua, Antolin del Campo, Phone (58) 295-249-0558 or (58) 416-695-3704, website; http://www.casatrudel.com/ (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Posada Los Mangos has nine fully-equipped, air-conditioned guest rooms with en-suite shower facilities ceiling fans, satelite TV and personal safes. Linens and towels are also supplied. There is a roof terrace with sea and mountain views, where you can enjoy your breakfast, fresh coffee or a selection of English and herbal tea's. Throughout the day the Cafe/Bar is open, serving a choice of hot and cold food, including pastries, cakes, ice creams and local dishes. Location, Calle Principal El Cardón  Phone 58 295 611 7771 http://www.losmangosmargarita.com/ (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Costa Linda is a Posada (bed & breakfast) located in Playa El Agua, half a block from the beach. There are 28 rooms that offer, air conditioning, private bathroom with shower, swimming pool, breakfast served daily and there is a full restaurant on the premises. Phone; 58 295 415 9961. Email; hotelcostalinda@cantv.net Web site: http://www.hotelcostalinda.com/index2.htm (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Hotel Pension Casa Perla is located just 70 - 100 meters from the beach in Playa el Yaque on Margarita Island. Playa el Yaque is known internationally as one of the best spots in the world for wind surfing and kite surfing. The beach has calm, shallow, warm water, making it an ideal place to spend the day. (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010 (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010 Casa Perla offers 8 rooms for 2 or 3 persons. Each room has a bathroom with hot water, air conditioning, beds with orthopedic mattresses, refrigerator, a safe for the valuables, cable TV and free internet access (Wi-Fi) One can also relax in a hammock on the private balcony! (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

A breakfast is served on the top-floor terrace where there is a view of the Caribbean Sea and El Yaque. Web site, http://www.casaperlamargarita.com/ Phone; 58  414 793 3143 or 58 295 414 9204, email; casaperla@isla-margarita.hu (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Splurge
please make sure to use appropriate WT formatting such as:

*

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Dunes Hotel & Beach Resort, (25 minutes away from the Santiago Mariño Airport and 30 minutes from Porlamar), [13]. The hotel is located at the northernmost coast of the island in an area considered by many to have the best beaches on the island. The ocean beach at Puerto Cruz, is 2.5 km long. On the left of the hotel is Playa Zaragoza, a small protected bay.

(This Dunes hotel listing is from the original article and lacks a phone number, I have formatted to WT mark-up but the listing needs fuller detail such as tel and email contacts) (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)



These existing article listings also need work:



Hesperia Hotel has 312 rooms, including suites. It offers spa, tennis courts, fitness center, the only 18 hole golf course on Margarita Island and is beach front with swimming pool. Location: Playas Puerto Viejo y Puerto Cruz. Phone 58 295 400 7111 web site http://www.hesperia.com/hesperia/en/hotels/venezuela/isla-margarita/hesperia-isla-margarita.html email hotel@hesperia-islamargarita.com (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Private villas
please make sure to use appropriate WT formatting such as:

*

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

CASA"Mi Sueño (house of my Caribbean dreams)Your own house. Your own tropical garden. Your own pool. Completely private! No fight for a patio chair or the best place at the pool. The caretaker, Mima, takes care of the guests. She makes the beds, keeps the house clean and, if requested, will cook.

The house is pleasantly situated between mountains and beach. Most of the time there is a refreshing breeze and not too much humidity. Playa el Agua is just a 10 minute walk from the villa. The salon and kitchen blend into one another with Caribbean atmosphere. There are big patio sliding-doors which unite the salon and patio. From the patio there is a wonderful view on the mountains and also, partly, the Caribbean sea. 3 bedrooms with double-beds and with air conditioning, 2 bathrooms. In the rear of the house, separately, rooms for managing the household affairs. Mima's empire. Not far from the house are two small typical Venezuelan shops where you can buy some of the most important basic foods. Aprox. 15 minutes away there is a supermarket. The neighbours are from different nations, but naturally, mainly Venezuelans. e-mail; caribic@online.de phone; 0049 4103 918330  (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Eat
Surely there is more than just the one place to eat on the island. Same formula as above, create a preamble about eating in Margarita, such as food style, popular restaurant locality, maybe in the city, at the beach and similar. Don't forget that a business can only be listed once. Please note: If it is a hotel with a restaurant best to just list the hotel and put into the listing detail that it has a great restaurant...if it does. It has to be a very distinctively different operation from the hotel to even begin to justify a separate listing

Budget
please make sure to use appropriate WT formatting such as:

*

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Vaquero Steak House, located on Av. 31 de Julio, Sector El Salado, Via Playa El Agua. Phone 58 295 242 1255. Steak house that also serves grilled ribs, chicken, sausage and other local fare at a very reasonable price. This is an open air restaurant, come as you are, beach attire permitted. Open from Noon until 8:00 everyday (except Monday and Tuesday in slow season). English menu available upon request. (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Using * the listing for Vaquero Steak House could look like this:



Lupe Mexican Gourmet Av. 31 de Julio, Sector Salamanca Phone 58 414 112 9526. Authentic Mexican food served on an open air patio at reasonable prices. Open every day except Tuesday from 4:00 until 8:00. Owner operators both speak English to help if one needs help with the Spanish menu. Don't forget to ask about dessert.


 * (WT-en) MustSee 08:04, 20 October 2010 (EDT)(WT-en) MustSee 08:07, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Vaquero and Lupe listings look ready to go but are you sure about the closing time for Lupe, do they close very early at night? (WT-en) felix 12:54, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Sambil Mall food court has something for just about everyone. There are well know American franchises such as KFC, McDonalds, Burger King, as well as more local and international flare foods available. Everyone in your group can dine on something different while eating together as a group. Hours are 11:00 am until 9:00 pm. Third pix is food court, http://www.sambilmall.com/Mall.aspx/4/Sambil-Margarita (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

(WT-en) MustSee 08:25, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

This one looks ready to go as well, good work [MustSee}. (WT-en) felix 12:54, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Mid-range
please make sure to use appropriate WT formatting such as:

*

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Dolphin Restaurant located on Avenida Aldonza Manrique in the Playa El Angel section outside of Pampatar. Italian, seafood and international cuisine are the specialities. It is closed on Sundays. Hours very by season. Phone; 58 295 262 1662 (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010


 * (WT-en) MustSee 08:41, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

El Pacifico restaurant (Playa El Agua) serves mostly fresh seafood, with exotic cocktails and is located directly on the beach. The portions are generally not large so keep that in mind if you are extremely hungry. Hours vary by season. (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010
 * (WT-en) MustSee 08:41, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

These both look good now and ready to go into the article. (WT-en) felix 12:46, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Splurge
please make sure to use appropriate WT formatting such as:

*

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

La Casa de la Langosta (Lobster House) serves their specialty, lobster, many different ways. Choose from lobster served natural, thermidor, with mushrooms, four cheese, criolla style, natural medallions, on ice, salad, or vinaigrette. Also available is a full line of other fresh seafood along with chicken, beef, lamb and pork dishes. Located on Avenida 4 de Mayo in Porlamar for the last 19 years serving fresh lobster. For reservations their phone number is 58 295 264 3238. Hours very by season Web site; http://www.lobsterhousemargarita.com/ (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

*

and it could look like this... (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Catabar located on Avenida Joaquín Maneiro in Pampatar has a tastefully decorated dining room and variety of international cuisine. The chef is from France and the presentation is what one would expect from a five star restaurant. Their desserts receive high praise from the local food critics. An impressive wine list is also available. The owner speaks English if one needs help with the menu. Hours very by season. (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010


 * (WT-en) MustSee 08:54, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

This one looks good now, good work MustSee. I just corrected a small typo (very=vary). (WT-en) felix 12:14, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

El Fondeadero located on Avenida Joaquín Maneiro in Pampatar next to the "fort". Enjoy waterfront dining while being served fresh seafood that was caught that day or chose a variety of other dishes. in Pampatar next to the "fort".Hours very by season. (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010


 * (WT-en) MustSee 08:54, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

This one also looks good with the content but something strange has been going on with the formatting, I have done it again underneath your version so you can compare the two. I also corrected the same small typo (very=vary). (WT-en) felix 12:14, 20 October 2010 (EDT)



MustSee this is all looking good. (WT-en) felix 12:14, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

>>end of example layout...(WT-en) felix 04:44, 19 October 2010 (EDT) >>unsigned content added by (WT-en) MustSee 12:09, 19 October 2010 thru 21:19, 19 October 2010 with formatting fix assistance from Dguillaime.

Please make sure you don't forget to sign off on your posts here with the ~

That content above is certainly what the article needs. It will need to be formatted correctly to the wikivoyage mark up...using *
 * I will do the first one of each group using that mark up as an example. Once we have them all done then they can be moved across to the article.

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)


 * Here are some others to consider for developing for article content:
 * I found these venues listed below elsewhere but I am not sure if they are up to date. Also they have not been critiqued as I am unfamiliar with the destination. We must make sure that we are not listing too many of course and that we are describing them as has been done above, otherwise it just becomes a phonebook listing and that is not what WT is about. Good work on the above. (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)


 * Please do not forget to sign off with ~ so that we know who has written the content.

Restaurant MargaritaVille, near hotel Hilton.

Restaurant El Pescador de la Marina, Marina Concorde, Porlamar. )

Bar & Restaurant Señor Frog´s. Mexican Food. DISCOTHEQUE Costa Azul. Avenida Bolívar. El Remo. - Internacional,. Fish & Seafood. Avenida 4 de Mayo. Porlamar

Sambil Mall: Large variety of restaurants.this one is already listed by [MustSee] above

La Scala. Hotel Hilton & Suites. Italian Il Positano. Pizzería. - Open Garden. Calle Fermín. Porlamar. Utopía Café. Café. Deli & bar. Web& News.Avenida Bolívar. Centro Comercial Costa Azul. Porlamar.

La Tonada del Brasero. Grill Beef, typical Creole. Prolongación Av. 4 de Mayo. Porlamar.

Dragón Chino. Chinese. Avenida 4 de mayo. across Rattan.

Café Local Standby. Thai. and european. Av. 4 de Mayo.

L´Incontro. Italian, Snacks & Ice Creams. Calle Tubores. Porlamar.

Guanábana´s Tripical Show. Restaurant International. Calle Cedeño con Av. Santiago Mariño.

Cheers. International. Av. Santiago Mariño. Porlamar.

Dallas. International and Beef. Av. 4 de Mayo.

Sevillana´s. Spanish Restaurant.. -  Life Show (Band) and Flamenco Dance. Av. Bolívar.

El Pacífico Restaurant. Fish & Lobster. Boulevard Playa El Agua.

Costa del Sol. International and chilean. Fish & Seafood. Calle El Fuerte. Juangriego.

The above is only for consideration and checking, added by (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Taxis
I have removed the list of taxi operators as the list needs some some work done on it to cull out any unlicensed or dubious operators. The taxi list needs to be culled down to a few good ones whilst ensuring that we only list those that operate cabs with official (yellow gov. issued) licensing plates. Lets also try and get some comments on the taxis operations of the respective companies, are they old, clean, dirty, brand new or what ever. (WT-en) felix 05:53, 22 October 2010 (EDT)


 * Please add content here rather than in the main article at this time.



some more....

Latin Union Taxis Address, CCSambil, Pampatar, Margarita, Phone, (0295) 263.7113

Luxor Taxi Address, CCSambil, Pampatar, Margarita, Venezuela, Phone, (0295) 263.7979

Cexpre CA Taxis Address, CCSambil, Pampatar, Margarita, Phone, (0295) 262.4545

Millennium Taxi Address, Margarita, Phone, (0295) 263.7823 / 416.7266

Taxi Cubagua Address, C / c.Carnevalli, Rattan Plaza; Av.4 de Mayo, Margarita, Phone, (0295) 264.4102

Adventure Taxi Address, Margarita, Phone, (0295) 287.1856

San Mar Taxi Address, CCSambil, Pampatar, Margarita, Phone, (0295) 262.4816 / 4733

Tourist Lines Address, Margarita, Phone, (0295) 261.3113

United Taxis Address, Calle Narvaez, Margarita, Phone (0295) 262.6881 (WT-en) felix 03:02, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Orphaned listings
These listings below have been removed from the Margarita Island article in recent edits. Others were retreived from the edit histories and redistribnuted in sub-articles but these below remain orphaned. -- (WT-en) felix 14:28, 13 September 2011 (EDT)

Northern end of the island




Learn
accidentally placed into the Playa El Yaque article, this Learn detail should probably go into the Porlamar article as that is the nearest to it geographically. Maybe (WT-en) MustSee would like to comment with some local feedback on this. -- (WT-en) felix 12:21, 14 September 2011 (EDT)

On Margarita Island you can learn the Spanish language in Cela Spanish School in Playa El Angel. The school is owned and managed by Sabine Loffler, PhD in Linguistics and specialist in teaching Spanish as a foreign language. The school has also a free on-line version where you can learn Spanish for your travel to Venezuela.

Cela Spanish School in Playa El Angel now listified and placed into the Porlamar article as that is the nearest to it geographically. -- (WT-en) felix 13:37, 14 September 2011 (EDT)

Feedback request: Margarita Island car rentals
Per Talk:Margarita Island hopefully a few other people can chime in. I removed a car rental section per Project:External links (more than ten car rental companies available at the location), but there is some history to the car rental section as outlined on the talk page, so perhaps one or two others can provide their opinions on this subject. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 19:46, 31 August 2011 (EDT)


 * Hey Ryan, I just want to clarify my position on this issue. Your statement, "I removed a car rental section per Wikivoyage:External links#What not to link to (more than ten car rental companies available at the location)," I feel, is not entirely accurate. The reasons are listed below.


 * "Avoid linking to secondary sources - for example, avoid links to: Rental cars operators, in cities where they are common (10 or more operating in the city). Typically we don't provide details of national car rental chains in local guides. Providing details at the national level, and mentioning the name and location at local level is sufficient if required." http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:External_links#What_not_to_link_to


 * The above referenced policy deals with "Rental cars operators, in cities where they are common (10 or more operating in the city)" and "national car rental chains in local guides". Margarita Island is not a "city", it is a State. Therefore, while there may be more then 10 car rental agencies operating on this Island, it is not a "city" and the policy about including individual local agencies in the article is not very clear except to say that national car rental chains at the local level need only be mentioned.


 * In the State of Florida, http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Florida, 8 rental car companies have been listed, 4 with links to their web sites. The "city" of Tampa, http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Tampa, list 8 "national car rental chains" and one local company, all with links. The city of Tampa has 10 or more "rental car operators" operating within that city.


 * This is common place on wikivoyage, if more examples are needed I can supply 100's more that violate the above mentioned policy. By removing the "national car rental chains" from the individual listings that you removed, it would be within policy. So if there are no objections I will rework the list to be policy compliant. Thanks, (WT-en) MustSee 16:28, 2 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 16:28, 2 September 2011 (EDT)


 * By removing the details of the national car rental chains that are mentioned in the text below, since they are listed on a national level and Margarita Island is not a city as required for exclusion in the policy quoted, this now falls within WT established policy. In addition, the operators listed below are all licensed and are genuine car rental companies, saving the traveler the potential hassle of dealing with a third party or an unlicensed company. This gives the traveler the information they need to decide on their own. I propose the following addition if there are no legitimate objections.


 * Rental cars are available from major chains such as Avis, Budget and Hertz, as well as local operators. Always use common sense when renting and make sure to check for any hidden costs and levies that may appear when you return the car. To rent a car you will need a current driver’s license and a passport. Make sure you have adequate insurance cover any loss or purchase a Collision Damage Waiver and do not leave your passport, drivers licence, or any other important documentation with the rental company as a security deposit. Thoroughly check over the vehicle including the glass and all panels for any damage and have the salesperson initial a damage record. If in doubt at all photograph the vehicle from all sides prior to taking delivery. Ensure you check the gas tank prior to the rental and at return. Check the vehicle over thoroughly before you leave the depot to ensure everything is functioning on the vehicle and that it is roadworthy.










 * Scooter motorbike and moped hire




 * If considering making a trip to the mainland on the ferry and taking a rental vehicle with you then please ensure beforehand that your rental and insurance contract permits the vehicle traveling off the island.
 * (WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)
 * (WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)


 * It is not helpful for this discussion to happen in two places, and Ryan's comment above was only a pointer to the actual discussion at Talk:Margarita Island. Please keep all discussion there. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:22, 11 September 2011 (EDT)