Talk:Low-cost airlines in North America

Agree with removal of comparision sites. One in particular keeps gettting re-posted - by the owner of the site is my guess. Same IP address.

We should remove those price comparison sites - violation of extlink policy. If we include them, we slide down the slippery slope of web directory and having to provide links to similar sites of all kinds (travel agencies, etc etc etc). -- (WT-en) Nils 01:23, 23 Jul 2004 (EDT)


 * Nils, can you provide a primary source link directly into airline reservation systems like Amadeus or Sabre? I'll answer myself: no, of course you can't, because they don't allow the general public free access. And that's why the only way to comparison shop is to use a third party, who is paying for the license.  And no, this is not a slippery slope: Limit the price comparison sites to the three or four biggest (rank by Alexa if you insist) and that's it.


 * You know full well that the external link policy is disputed right now, so go dispute it and leave borderline links alone for now. (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:36, 23 Jul 2004 (EDT)


 * The primary source in this case would be the airline itself, most of which will have online reservation systems. And if you paid any attention, you will note I *AM* leaving borderline cases alone. Just drawing attention to them. Get a grip. -- (WT-en) Nils 06:51, 23 Jul 2004 (EDT)


 * The whole point of using a price comparison site is to avoid individually checking 17 different airline engines, many of which don't offer discounted fares in the first place. And until now you've certainly displayed a habit of deleting links before any discussion takes place... (WT-en) Jpatokal 14:54, 23 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Removed secondary links
These links were removed from the main article. It might not be a bad idea for someonen to go through them and see if there are any facts or primary links that should be incorporated into Wikivoyage.


 * Air Traveler's Handbook (FAQ) (somewhat out of date)
 * Air Travel sites (Google)

More comparison engines
I had these in my notes; if anyone has tried them and found them useful and not entirely obsoleted by the existing links, these should be added to the article page. -- (WT-en) Beland 20:14, 24 Oct 2004 (EDT)


 * ITASoftware.com - Comprehensive listings (except for Southwest), but does not sell tickets.
 * SideStep.com - You install this as a browser plugin.
 * Mobissimo.com - Another browser plugin, perhaps more comprehensive.

Keeping fares low
Should we add a section in this article about how to keep fares low in the future? Some airlines give a variety of things passengers can do for prices to stay as low as possible. --(WT-en) Jr traveller 12:05, 22 December 2006 (EST)

Foreign comparison sites
I've nuked the following list as it's a total spam magnet and I find the claim dubious and the utility questionable. (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:57, 10 June 2008 (EDT) Many foreign comparison sites also list domestic US flights. Sometimes they find cheaper fares than American sites.
 * No Frills Flights- compares prices of Low Cost Airlines. Global coverage
 * - Global coverage.
 * Opodo.com - A large European site.
 * Zuji.com - A large Asian site.
 * Vayama.com - A large Asian site.
 * Anyway.com - In French.
 * FlightMapper.net - Global coverage.

Nuked this section as well, spam target and rather useless. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 19:06, 24 December 2009 (EST)


 * Orbitz - Search engine that checks most major North American carriers; also allows you to specify a price, and get an e-mail when a suitable fare becomes available.


 * Travelocity - Search engine that checks most major North American carriers; good search options if going to a specific destination on a flexible schedule. Also has a Canadian site.


 * Priceline - Major North American carriers.  Offers a conventional price comparison with full flight details.  Also offers a "name your own price" feature where you can get a lower fare if you are willing to not know the airline and time of your departure (or other details, for other services) until after you commit to buying it. (For US departures only)
 * Before you make a bid on Priceline, go to Bidding for Travel to get advice on bidding strategies. You'll be amazed at how much cheaper you can get a hotel room than what's being quoted on the conventional travel sites.


 * HotWire - Major North American carriers.  You don't know the time of day your flight leaves until after you commit to buying it.


 * Kayak - Price comparison search engine that searches both other engines (like Orbitz and CheapTickets) and airline websites (like AA.com and United.com).


 * Eztrip - A price comparison engine that focuses on review orientated listings.


 * WiseTravelSearch - This sites helps you search and compare the top online travel agents (including Travelocity and Expedia) to find the best travel deals for flights, hotels, and vacations.  Also has a Canadian site.


 * SideStep -  - Price comparison search engine that searches both other engines (like Orbitz and CheapTickets) and airline websites (like AA.com and United.com).


 * Mobissimo - - Price comparison search engine that searches both other engines (like Orbitz and CheapTickets) and airline websites (like AA.com and United.com); only roundtrip searches available for now.


 * Travelmia - - Search engine that checks most major North American carriers for cheap airline tickets;  Good booking options like selecting your seats and live flight tracker.


 * Skytours - - Airline comparison engine that checks more than 500 airlines for cheap tickets. Lets you book open Jaw flights.


 * CheapOair - - Searches most North American, European, South American, Asian, African and South Pacific Airlines, Offers consolidator and published fares, Lists full flight details, provides a comprehensive flight summary for convenience. One of the very few travel sites which allows the user to book flights originating from a foreign country to the US and Canada.


 * Cheapairlines - - Offers discount airfare and cheap airline tickets on all the major airlines, offers travel planning advice, detailed travel guides and the Deal Finder Newsletter as well as offers deals on exclusive Villas in Puerto Morelos and Quadra Alea, Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico.


 * Lowfares - - Price comparison search engine that searches other engines (like Orbitz and CheapTickets) and airline websites such as Hawaiian Airlines. Shows pop ups when comparing other travel sites.


 * BidLessTravel.com - Cheap Priceline Flights & Travel Deals
 * Travelalerts.ca - Travel Deals from Canada
 * Travelzoo
 * Cheapflights.com News - Latest deals and flights information.
 * Cheaptickets.com - Click on the navigation tabs for Deals and Last Minute Trips.
 * Overstock.com - Click on the navigation tab for Travel.
 * LastMinute.com
 * Travelika.com - Deals from Canada
 * PickYourCity.com - Click on the navigation tabs for Deals and Last Minute Packages.
 * Cheapticket.co.uk - Deals from London.
 * Cheapairlines.com - Travel deals, discounts.
 * Cheapflights-to.net - Cheap prices for airlines tickets and special travel deals.
 * Asia.ca - Cheap Airfare to Asia from major cities in North America.
 * iflybusiness.com - Cheap business class travel from the USA to Worldwide.

U.S. Airways - A discount airline?
It is claimed that US Airways is a discount airline. Is there any evidence that their fares are systematically lower than other airlines? In my experience, they are not. America West was a discount airline, until it combined with USAir and raised the fares and diminished the service. They are members of the Star Alliance and, to my knowledge, are not systematically cheaper than their allies. --(WT-en) MidwestGeek 08:20, 17 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Don't they have a low-cost brand somewhere in that sprawling corporation? Otherwise, I agree, they're not a "budget" company. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:44, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

Name change
This is nitpicky, I know, but I noticed that all the other articles about low-cost airlines are titled "Low-cost airlines in..." (Low-cost airlines in Africa, Low-cost airlines in Asia, and Low-cost airlines in Europe). Shouldn't we change this article to Low-cost airlines in North America, for the sake of consistency? PerryPlanet (talk) 17:03, 5 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree with you there, I nearly did it myself the other day. I'll get to work on the other airline articles tonight! --Nick (talk) 17:17, 5 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Done. --Nick (talk) 21:06, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Do we want to keep this page?
After all, there is a tendency to get rid of pages like low cost airlines in Europe...Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:05, 30 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The article is a bit of a mess and basically a dump of anyone's thoughts about what flying 'low cost' really is and crosses into general flying all the time. I believe it is redeemable, but it will require some work. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:21, 30 June 2015 (UTC)


 * There will also probably be a lot of overlap with air travel in the US Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:37, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

VFD discussion
If there is anything of value still left in this article (and if that is not horribly outdated) it should be covered in air travel in the US Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:45, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
 * It looks like there's quite a bit of information there. Do you have specific concerns about it? Powers (talk) 03:23, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
 * First of all, is there any definition of low cost airline that is meaningful for the traveler and applies to the US? Some lcc charge more fees on stuff than the legacy airlines some don't charge much of anything for anything. Some are knee-crunching, some have a bit more legroom. Besides, we already have air travel in the US. And as for the travel options for active military... I don't even know whether that belongs here at all or is even up to date. We don't list special travel arrangements for people who work at Volkswagen or the Chinese railways, do we? Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:22, 13 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete - travel for US military servicepeople and relatives merits a separate article. Otherwise, it's a laundry list of random advice better covered by air travel in the US and air travel on a budget, some outdated airline trivia and a bit of spamlinking. It really doesn't serve the traveller much. PrinceGloria (talk) 08:28, 20 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Do not delete - If the content is duplicated elsewhere then merge and redirect. I see no justification for deletion. -- Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 00:55, 10 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment As far as I can tell no one has cited a valid reason as to why this article should be deleted rather than merged/redirected, so my inclination would be to close this VFD as a "keep" and have this discussion continue at Talk:Low-cost airlines in North America unless there are further arguments that would justify a deletion. -- Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 13:24, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Outcome: Kept. -- Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 04:46, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

So let's have this discussion, shall we?
As per the VFD that was closed for reasons I don't quite understand, there seems to be a remaining open question as to what to do with this here article, namely whether it should be merged or redirected somewhere (which, if I may say so, I don't think aids the traveler). I am firmly opposed to keeping as is and still in favor of deletion, but I am open to other proposals. If there is anything that could be salvaged for our (rather well written) air travel in the US article, please say so. As for the active military stuff... Is there even anybody in our editor-base who knows enough about this to make a smell test? Also, the military is a large employer in the US, but it is by no means the biggest employer in the world. I don't think we should cover every employee discount scheme - even if travel related - of even the biggest companies. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:00, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * User:LtPowers, User:PrinceGloria, User:Wrh2 what do you say? Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:54, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I largely agree with your points. My main concern is that Air travel in the United States has a different geographic scope than this article, so it might be hard to execute a proper merge. Powers (talk) 19:31, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Well this article makes scant mention of Canada and (almost) completely ignores Mexico and Central America. But yeah, I see the point. The Canada parts could be included in the Canada article (if they aren't already) or alternatively Air travel in Canada could be spun off, though I doubt there's enough material there, given that Canada has a bit less than one seventh of the population of the US... Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:37, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I think I commented above that I don't see any valuable content in this article that needs to be merged anywhere else. If one sees anything worth merging, I am fine with merging only into Air travel in the United States as, by implication, that would mean that nothing valuable regarding Canada, Mexico or anywhere else could be found here. Let's just get down with it - and this is a "you"-type of "us" as I am crazily busy in RL and cannot really help this time :( PrinceGloria (talk) 22:32, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Well I think there is no valuable target for redirecting this page and there seems to be no user who says "Wait this or that specific content is too valuable to disappear and should be merged into x". In this case I think deletion would be the natural consequence, but the vfd was closed and I won't reopen it, so we have to agree on the one minor point as to where to redirect this. air travel on a budget or air travel in the USA. I really don't care either way. I just want to get it over with. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:07, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Air travel in the USA - it has a section on budget carriers specifically. PrinceGloria (talk) 01:02, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

I will wait a week or so more before redirecting this to air travel in the USA. Any views/opinions on this? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:32, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Air travel on a budget might make more sense, due to the geographic scope discrepancy. K7L (talk) 20:38, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Okay, I have no objection to that. Though, people who will get rerouted there due to some link (e.g. it popped up in the sidebar of our "North America" article), they might be looking for the air travel in the US article instead... Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:20, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * So.... Where do we merge? Air travel on a budget or air travel in the US? Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:38, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd go with air travel on a budget. PrinceGloria (talk) 17:59, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Do go ahead, Hobbitschuster! PrinceGloria (talk) 05:15, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Given that there have recently been edits to this article by someone not involved in this discussion, I wish to have their input before proceeding... Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:25, 20 June 2016 (UTC)