Talk:London/Central

Notes on how the regions have been defined for central London.

The Regions
Dividing London into useful regions for tourists is a fairly challenging proposition. After discussing with a few colleagues at work, who've ended up in London from all corners of the world, we thought that although a tourist could look at street signs to see which London borough they were in, that this wasn't the most sensible way to divide up the city for a travel guide.

It made sense to define a central London district, spanning borough boundaries, as this would be the area where most tourists could expect to spend much of their time. However, even within this district, we felt that subdivision into regions was needed - because of the sheer amount of attractions and entertainment available.

So, the first step was to define the extent of the central London district. Conveniently, the London congestion charge boundary - a region within which motorists need to pay a daily fee of £5 on weekdays to drive - defined a good "Central London", including most of the city's main attractions.

The next step was to define this central district into regions. The main difficulty here was selecting names for regions which would be recognisable to residents (so that a tourist could ask for directions), and which are reasonably meaningful to tourists.

For example, "Westminster" is widely believed to refer to the region around the Houses of Parliament and Westminster Abbey - though a local resident would recognise it as referring to the City of Westminster, which spans a vast region of central London. Hence, its usefulness as a label for a region of central London for a tourist is questionable.

The 9 regions we split central London into are defined as follows:

Marylebone
Marylebone is located in the north-west of central London. It is defined by Marylebone Road to the north, Portland Place to the east, Oxford Street to the south, and Edgware Road to the west.

For purposes of writing, the section of Marylebone Road between the start of the Westway and Regent's Park underground station should be considered as part of Marylebone. Therefore, this area does contain Madame Tussaud's and the London Planetarium. Similarly, the stretch of Edgware Road south of the Westway down to Marble Arch should be considered as part of Marylebone to include the excellent middle eastern restaurants located there. Portland Place, Langham Place, and upper Regent Street (and therefore the Langham Hotel and BBC Broadcasting House) should also be considered as lying within Marylebone.

However, the stretch of Oxford Street between Marble Arch and Oxford Circus should be treated as lying in the Mayfair region.

Mayfair
Mayfair is located in the west of central London. It is defined by Oxford Street to the north, Regent Street to the east, Park Lane to the west, and Piccadilly to the south.

For purposes of writing, the section of Oxford Street between Marble Arch and Oxford Circus should be treated as lying in Mayfair. Therefore, Selfridges lies in this region. The stretch of Regent Street between Oxford Circus and Piccadilly Circus should also be treated as located within Mayfair. Therefore, Dickens and Jones, Hamleys and Liberty's should be considered to lie in Mayfair - despite being on the West End side of Regent Street. Piccadilly Circus itself, however, should be considered to lie in the West End.

Park Lane should be considered to lie within Mayfair, however, Hyde Park Corner should be considered to lie in St James's.

Piccadilly should be considered to lie within Mayfair, so therefore Fortnum and Mason and the Royal Academy of Arts fall within Mayfair. However, Green Park should be considered to lie in St James's.

St James's
St James's is located in the south-west of central London. It is defined by Piccadilly, Lower Regent Street, Pall Mall, Cockspur Street and Northumberland Avenue to the north. To the east, the river Thames forms a natural boundary. To the south, St James's is defined by Grosvenor Place, Bressenden Place and Vauxhall Bridge Road.

For purposes of writing, Piccadilly should be treated as in Mayfair, with the exception of Hyde Park Corner and Green Park which fall within St James's. Apsley House, No. 1 London, despite being on the north side of Hyde Park Corner, should therefore be treated as lying in St James's. Lower Regent Street (the stretch of Regent Street south of Piccadilly Circus), Pall Mall, Cockspur Street, and Northumberland Avenue should be considered to be split down the middle between St James's and West End. This ensures that Trafalgar Square lies within West End.

As regards the river, Westminster Bridge, Lambeth Bridge and Vauxhall Bridge should be considered to lie in St James's. The Hungerford Foot Bridge should be considered to lie in West End.

In the unlikely event of something of interest to tourists being located on Grosvenor Place, Bressenden Place or Vauxhall Bridge Road, these should be considered to lie in St James's too.

South Bank
The South Bank area is probably the simplest to define. It is the area south of the river Thames, within the central London area. The boundary roads to the south are Kennington Lane, New Kent Road and Tower Bridge Road.

For purposes of writing, the bridges across the river should be considered to lie within the appropriate region to the north of the river. To the south, the Elephant and Castle roundabout should be considered to lie within the South Bank area.

Any tourist attractions on Kennington Lane, New Kent Road and Tower Bridge Road should be considered to lie in the South Bank area.

The City of London
The City of London is defined as the real-life City of London, with one exception - Tower Hill, Tower Bridge and the Tower of London are included. Writers should consult a London A-Z for street boundary definitions. Boundary streets are split down the middle between the City of London and neighbouring regions.

For purposes of writing, the Tower Bridge, London Bridge, Southwark Bridge and Blackfriars Bridge should be considered to lie in the City of London. (This is consistent with the real-life definition of the City of London - as can be evidenced by the griffin statues standing on the southern sides of these bridges). The Royal Courts of Justice should be considered to lie within the Holborn region. The Temple, however, is in the City of London. Similarly, Smithfield market is in the City of London - though Farringdon station is in Clerkenwell.

St Katherine's Dock should be considered to lie in the East district of London.

Clerkenwell
This is the north-eastern area of central London. It is defined by City Road and Great Eastern Street to the north, by Commercial Street and Whitechapel High Street to the east, by the boundary of the City of London to the south, and Rosebery Avenue and the southern section of Grays Inn Road.

For purposes of writing, Rosebery Avenue and the south part of Grays Inn Road should be split down the middle between Clerkenwell and Bloomsbury. Similarly boundary streets between Clerkenwell and the City of London should be split down the middle. For clarity, Spitalfields Market should be considered to lie within Clerkenwell, but Brick Lane lies in the East district of London.


 * If Spitalfields is in Clerkenwell, then New York is in Tokyo... --82.35.73.41 05:22, 26 October 2006 (EDT)

Bloomsbury
This is probably the least obviously defined region of central London, located to the north of the district. It stretches from Portland Place to the west, to Rosebery Avenue and Theobalds Road to the east, with Euston Road and Pentonville Road to the north, and Oxford Street, New Oxford Street and Bloomsbury Way to the south.

For the purposes of writing, Portland Place, Langham Place and upper Regent Street should be considered to lie in neighbouring Marylebone. Euston Road and Pentonville Road should be considered to lie in Bloomsbury - so the British Library, as well as St Pancras and Kings Cross St Pancras stations should also be considered to lie in Bloomsbury.

Rosebery Avenue, Theobalds Road, Bloomsbury Way and New Oxford Street should be split down the middle between Bloomsbury and either the Clerkenwell, Holborn or West End region.

The stretch of Oxford Street between Oxford Circus and the junction with Tottenham Court Road should be considered to fall within the West End region.

West End
The West End region is probably the most complex region to define. To the north, it is defined by Oxford Street, New Oxford Street and Bloomsbury Way. To the east, it is defined by the southern part of Southampton Row, Kingsway, the western part of Aldwych, the Waterloo Bridge approach road, and the river. To the south, it is defined by south Regent Street, Pall Mall, Cockspur Street and Northumberland Avenue. To the west, it is defined by the stretch of Regent Street between Oxford Circus and Piccadilly Circus.

The stretch of Oxford Street between Oxford Circus and Tottenham Court Road should be considered to lie within the West End region. New Oxford Street, Bloomsbury Way, the sourthern part of Southampton Row, Kingsway, the western part of Aldwych, and the Waterloo Bridge approach road, should be split down the middle between West End and the neighbouring regions (Bloomsbury and Holborn). This means that BBC Bush House and Somerset House should be considered to lie within Holborn.

South Regent Street, Pall Mall, Cockspur Street and Northumberland Street should be split along the middle between West End and St James's regions. The stretch of Regent Street between Oxford Circus and Piccadilly Circus should be considered to lie in Mayfair. This means that all the shops on that section of Regent Street, including Dickens and Jones, Liberty's and Hamley's (which all lie on the eastern side of the street) should be treated as lying in Mayfair.

Piccadilly Circus should be considered to lie in the West End region.

Holborn
The Holborn region covers the legal centre of London. It is defined by Theobalds Road to the north, the southern part of Grays Inn Road and the boundary of the City of London to the east, the river to the south, and the southern part of Southampton Row, Kingsway, the western part of Aldwych and the Waterloo Bridge approach road to the west.

The southern part of Southampton Row, Kingsway, the western part of Aldwych and the approach road to Waterloo Bridge should be split down the middle between Holborn and West End. Theobalds Road should be split down the middle between Holborn and Bloomsbury. The southern part of Grays Inn Road should be split down the middle between Holborn and Clerkenwell. The boundary between Holborn and the City of London should use the political definition.

Holborn includes Gray's Inn, Lincoln's Inn, the Royal Courts of Justice and Somerset House.

Thoughts
Yeah, sorry, this has ended up being incredibly wordy - probably more so than is necessary, but it's really for my own reference to decide where various tourist attractions and shops should be listed.

---
 * Arg, so there is a lot of great info here and I know people have been trying to work the breakdown out, but it's just killing me to have info for, say, Bloomsbury, on both the Central London and Bloomsbury page-- users shouldn't need to print out two (big) pages for a complete list of stuff... can we turn the "Central London" content into one or two sentence intro teasers and move the full description to the destination pages? Or someone have another idea? (WT-en) Majnoona 13:05, 26 Feb 2004 (EST)

(WT-en) MykReeve, 02 Jan 04, 22:54 (GMT)

Attraction Listings
The local attractions are coming along nicely. We have a preferred format for attractions, but I think these can be adapted very easily. More great work! --(WT-en) Evan 17:06, 5 Jan 2004 (EST)


 * Yes, sorry. I did look at the preferred format, to remind me what to stick in there, but I ended up finding it easier to just slap down the information, than to amend it to that format as I went along. I figured it'd be easier that way to go back and fiddle later on. Cheers for the comments though, I'll keep going at this this week, and hopefully have a fairly solid 'See' and 'Do' section by the end. -- (WT-en) MykReeve 18:04, 5 Jan 2004 (EST)

Structure
Should listings go in the Central London page or in the areas within Central London?

I think having a Central London page could be a good thing, but I didn't notice it for some time while browsing London - I was just following the links from the main London page to the areas within Central London like Soho and Covent Garden. I think there needs to be a guideline on what goes into the Central London page and what goes into the pages for the areas within it. One suggestion: All the See, Do, Eat etc sections go on the Central London page, divided up into the sub-areas as identified here already. This has the benefit that people can quickly scan the page for a particular item. Say I want to find a particular museum but I can't remember where it is or its exact name, it would be annoying to have to go to the Soho page, Covent Garden page, Mayfair, Bloomsbury, etc... Then the question becomes: what do we do with all the sub-area pages like Soho. In this scenario the answer is probably to delete them and move all their content to the central london page. Another suggestion: All the See, Do, etc listings go in their appropriate area page. Either delete the Central London page or just use it as an explanation of which bits of london fall into which areas. This has the advantage that the Central London page won't be waaaaay too long, but it means that people have to visit a number of pages to find all the good things to do, or to see, or to eat, etc. This seems to be the model Paris has chosen.

I'm not too fussed either way, but we really do need to make a call one way or another and go with it. --(WT-en) RJK 02:03, 21 Nov 2004 (GMT)