Talk:Kerala

Untitled
Keralalites call their state "God's own country". The majority of the Keralan people are Hindus (although there is a Muslim majority around Mahe). So which God would that be? :-)


 * Well, I for one would ask, "which country"? Kerala is a state :) As for God, maybe for once they did not mean any specific God "claimed" by any specific religion? (WT-en) Srijith 02:10, 4 Jan 2004 (EST)
 * I believe that it is wrong to claim any specific religion or belief to Kerela.

When you walk through the old streets of Jew Town in Kochi, you will come across a Hindu temple, a Catholic church and a Muslim Mosque only 30feet from each other. All living in total harmony, without animosity. The melange of religions and cultures in Kerala is their most prominent feature. With the world today, it is a treat to see something like this.
 * Now this is a very stupid discussion. "God's own country" is the brand name of the Tourism department of Kerala. It has super brand status. It is not something that the people there call it. Also, there is no question of religion here. Kerala has Hindus, Christians ( St. Thomas, apostle of Jesus came to preach here), Muslims, Jews, etc. (WT-en) Thunderboltz 00:13, 28 Jan 2006 (EST)

Opening picture - Toddy shop
I propose removing or changing the Toddy shop picture... while a nice picture, Toddy is potentially very dangerous... many people become very sick and die every year from poorly made versions, which are very common. Making this the opening picture makes it sound like it's a good idea to head to one of these places and 'try the local drink', but the reality is they are often seedy places and the mixtures can be dangerously poisonous... I lived in Kerala for 3 months this year and the story about the shop across the street is that it gets shut down about every six months when someone gets ill or dies (and several had at this particular one), it waits a month or so, pays a little baksheesh to the cops and reopens. any objections? (WT-en) Cacahuate 08:57, 16 October 2006 (EDT)
 * Good idea. &mdash; (WT-en) Ravikiran 14:53, 16 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Great! I changed the picture to a more suitable backwater cruise picture... (WT-en) Cacahuate 02:14, 17 October 2006 (EDT)

Talk - Kerala
I would disagree with most Malayalees speaking English. While all Malayalees are taught English in school, knowledge of English in theory and knowledge of English in practice are two different things. Any non-Malayalam-speaking person would have difficulty getting by with just English.

I have spoken with native Malayalam speakers who believed they were capable of speaking English. However, in my discussions with them in "English", I was unable to understand a single syllable of what had been said.

Eat - Kerala
Thoran is not deep-fried vegetables. Thoran is any vegetable curry that is dry, i.e., without gravy. It does usually contain grated coconut, though.

Regions
The state is right now split in 14 regions corresponding to the administrative division in district. Most of these region articles have limited content. I suggest that we instead group the districts in three to five regions. Any other views on this? (WT-en) ClausHansen 02:50, 6 January 2010 (EST)


 * Ok, so I organised the Kerala State in the following regions


 * Malabar
 * Kochi
 * Northern Travancore
 * Central Travancore
 * Southern Travancore


 * Originally, I intended to only have three regions, but Travancore had way too many cities. I redirected from empty articles, but it was still necessary to split Travancore in the three subregions.  Central Travancore still has too many cities, so I would like to hear if anyone think we should split it further?


 * Some of the former subregions of Kerala (districts that is) had See and Sleep listings. Those I have copied into the new regions, but they should be moved to the respective city articles.  I will start doing this, but any help on this is most welcome,  (WT-en) ClausHansen 18:47, 15 January 2010 (EST)


 * Seem fine to be, I'll try to get that map finished in a week or so. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 19:09, 15 January 2010 (EST)

Large amount of detail copied here
When cleaning up what had a become a very messy article, I found all of the following which belong in their relevant city articles, not here in the top level region. Please place them there.

Churches
Some of the prominent churches are

Seven and Half Churches- Ezharapallikal:- St Thomas the Apostle, after landing at Kodungallur in AD 52, established seven and half churches for Christian communities. These churches are known as Seven and Half Churches or Ezharappallikal.

The seven churches are located in different parts of Kerala. The church established at Thiruvithamkode (Thiruvamkode) in Kanyakumari district of Tamilnadu is accorded the status of a half church.


 * Maliankara- (Kodungallur - Azhikode), 40 km from Trichur: Diocese of Irinjalakuda


 * Palayoor (Near Chavakkadu & Guruvayoor), 28 km from Trichur: (Arch) Diocese of Trichur


 * Kottakavu (North Paravur): (Arch) Diocese of Ernakulam - Angamaly


 * Kokkamangalam (Alappuzha Dt, 5 km from Cherthala) St Thomas Church, This is also headquarters of Archdiocese of Ernakulam - Angamaly


 * Niranam, Nr Thiruvalla: St. Mary’s Orthodox Syrian Church, Niranam (Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church)


 * Kollam: The Headquarters of Diocese of Kollam


 * Chayal (Nilackal), Nr Sabarimala, Pathanamthitta Dt: Ecumenical Church, Kerala


 * Thiruvithamkode, Kanyakumari Dt, Tamilnadu (Half church): Orthodox Syrian Church, Tamilnadu


 * Malayattoor Mountain Top church; is an important Christanity pilgrimage center near Angamaly. It is believed that St. Thomas held his first sole prayer at this spot after being attacked by some tribes when he landed in Kerala. Due to his meditation, the rock where he sat starts bleeds and a golden cross appeared. Due to this belief, a pilgrimage is considered one of the most holiest among Indian Christians. The most important pilgrimage season is 11 days before Easter, when lakhs of devotees climb the rocky mountain by foot, with a heavy cross on back, recreating the painful Last Journey of Christ. A kiss on the holy rock is considered as most divine moment. The hilltop church is located 10 km away from the town of kalady.


 * St Mary's Church, Kudamaloor, St. Mary's church Kudamaloor is one of the ancient churches of the Syro-Malabar Rite. It is a famous Marian pilgrim center and is situated 7 km north of Kottayam  town.


 * The Synod of Diamper:- Udayamperoor- 19 Kms from Kochi city; is a historic church that made Kerala Syrian Christians to declare the affirmity and to the Roman Catholic Church. The Chruch of Diamper (Latin name of Udayamperoor) is the place, where Christians formally renounced their Syriac rites and adopted Latin Rites on Catholic Church formats.


 * St.Mary's Forane Church- Kuravilangadu, 22 Kms from Kottayam; One of the oldest churches of Kerala is the St Mary’s Church Kuravilangadu, which was supposed to have been established in 105 A. D. It is believed that Mother Mary's first appearance in the world, was in Kuravilangad. Our Lady appeared to a few children at Kuravilangad, who were tending their flock in the bushes. Mary asked them to build a church at the place from where a miraculous perpetual spring sprouted, a spring which exists even today. The children reported this matter to the elders and a church was built there. The statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary kept at the side altar is unique. It is carved from granite and it is believed that it was brought from North India. This is a miraculous statue and the devotees call this statue "Kuravilangad Muthiyamma". The granite cross in a single block of 48 feet in front of the church was erected around 1597. The devotes offer coconut oil in the lamps at the foot of the cross. On first Fridays devotees stand in queue from early morning to late in the evening to offer oil. There is an ancient bell with the engraving in Syriac "Mother of God". Three bells were brought from Germany in 1911. There is a "perpetual" spring, believed to be miraculous. Moonnu Nompu" is the main feast of the church.


 * Kadamattom Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church, 35 Kms from Kochi; is a very famous Church, built in 6th century AD. The church is famous for its rare combination of Indo-Persian architecture coupled with Kerala Hindu style decors and mandapams. The Church is its origins from a Hindu Brahmin family who converted to Christianity, yet maintained their Hindu tantric beliefs and practices. Thus many of its customs are mixture of Christianity and Hinduism. The Church is extremely famous for its legendary Kadamattom Kattanar (Priest) who lived in 10th century AD here, following Hindu Tantric practices to cure those who possessed as well as quell ghosts and spirits. Many Hindu temples were established by the Kadamattom Kattanar nearby, highlighting the level of harmony between Christianity and Hinduism in Kerala. Even today, people irrespective of religions, visit the shrine to seek blessings of the Kattanar. The Holy cross of St.Thomas kept here, was gifted by St.Thomas to an Assyrian King before coming to Kerala, which was brought by first Immigrants from Syria after the fall of Babylon.


 * [Arthunkal] Church, The church, officially Arthunkal St. Andrew's Forane Church, was originally built by the Portuguese missionaries in the 16th century. It has a fascinating history. The church was rebuilt in 1584, under the then vicar Fr. Jacoma Fenicio, whom the devotees claim, possessed magical powers to heal the body and mind. Devotees fondly referred to him as Arthunkal Veluthachan, which in English translates to fair skinned father. Fr. Fenicio died in 1632. Eight years after his death, the church was rebuilt again, this time facing the west towards the long white-sand beach on the shores of the Arabian Sea. In 1647, the idol of St. Sebastian, struck with arrows all over his bleeding body (he was executed at the order of the Roman emperor for embracing Christian faith) sculptured in Milan, was brought and placed in the Arthunkal church. Arthunkal St Andrews Forane Church, the first Parish of the Diocese of Alleppey has been elevated to the status of Basilica on 9 July 2010.[3] Arthunkal Basilica will become the first Basilica in the diocese of Alleppey and the 7th Basilica in Kerala. It will become the 3rd Basilica on the Latin Catholic church of Kerala

There are numerous of other historic churches across Kerala. Check with the Locals to identify some of the best Churches to visit. Kottayam, particularly Pala is extremely famous of Churches. Numerous of Churches dots elsewhere. Kerala has many world-famous Cathedrals, Basilicas, which are primary religious places, though the above are some of best for tourist visit due to its Historic reasons.

Mosques
Some of the important, must visit mosques are


 * Cheraman Palli (Cherman Juma Masjid), Kodungallor:- India's oldest mosque and World's 2nd mosque built in 629 AD soon after Medina Mosque in Saudi Arabia. This Mosque was built converting Kerala's Chera Emeperor's Palace into a mosque on his orders, after Cherman Perumal's (The Great Chera Emperor) conversion to Islam. Due to traditional relations with Arabia, soon after formation of Islam, champions of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) came to Chera Capital of Kodunagallor (Muziris)and demonstrate Prophet's miracle. This made Chera Emperor to convert into Islam and expressed his desire to meet Prophet. He met the Prophet, married sister of Nejd King and settled at Muscat, where he died and his tomb exists there today. As per his last wish, his royal palace was asked to convert to mosque, which resulted in formation Cheraman Palli. The original mosque was destroyed during Great Periyar floods in 1341, and several later mosques on its same site were destroyed during various wars and raids. However the current mosque was recently rebuilt. The important legacy of this mosque, is its effective harmony with Hinduism and adoption of several Hindu customs into its system. The Royal Lamp used by Cheras are still used inside the mosque and one of the most important highlight. The Mosque is built in traditional Hindu Kerala architecture with lot of murals, hindu motifs etc and several traditional Hindu lamps is used. A white block of Marble blessed by Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) brought here from Makkah. Unlike other mosques which normally faces westwards towards Makkah, this mosque faces towards East (as Makkah mosque was not built, at time of Cherman Mosque as well as following Kerala Hindu system of facing eastwards). Most of Muslim festivals as well as Hindu festivals particularly nearby Thiruvanchikulam Temple festival.


 * Kanjiramattom Mosque; Situated at Kaniramattom, 20 Kms from Kochi. This mosque is the right example of antique beauty of mazhars and dargahs. This was an official temple classified by Kochi Maharajas and most of the Imams (Priests) are chief scholars at Kochi Raja's court. The annual Chandanakudam in January attracts many pilgrims. During the festival, pilgrims carry pots smeared with sandalwood paste in a procession to the mosque, with caparisoned elephants and percussion musics – both found in temples – form essential parts of the Chandanakudam festival.


 * Palayam Pally, located in heart of Trivandrum, is the principal mosque of Trivandrum. It is a Juma Masjid (Friday Mosque). The Mosque is one of the largest in Kerala and famous for its regular sermons. The mosque was established with patronage of Travancore Kings.


 * Thazhathangady Juma Masjid, Kottayam:- is a mosque situated in Thazhathangady, one of the Heritage Zones of Kerala near the town of Kummanam. It is one of the oldest mosques in India and is more than 1000 years old. It is famous for its richness of architecture, wood carvings and the beauty. This mosque is situated on the banks of the Meenachil river. Thazhathangady Juma Masjid is also called as the “Taj Juma Masjid”. The ancestors of this Masjid came and settled in Kottayam, from different parts of Kerala.The Muslims who lived here played an active role in Freedom Struggle and other National Movements. This mosque is known for its intricate wooden carvings and architecture and looks similar to Kerala Architecture.


 * Chempittapally; West Kochi:- The name "Chempittapally" is derived from the Malayalam word "chemp" (means bronze) and "palli" (means mosque). The roof of this famous mosque was decorated with bronze tiles, hence chempitta pally. The compound has 3 gates; one in west which opens way to Panayapilly, second in south which opens way to Goldenmukku and Kochangadi, and the main gate in the eastern side of compound, which opens way to Angadi, which in turn leads the way to Jew Street and Mattancherry Bazaar towards the north and to Chullickal towards south.


 * Odathil Palli (Odathil Mosque) Thalassery; is a famous 300 year old Mosque. This land originally belonged to Dutch, who had started a sugar cane farm and a Garden (Odam in Dutch means Garden), which was transfered to East India Company who gifted this land to a Muslim contractor. He built a small mosque, using Sugarcane stem to make a Dome and Minaret. This was the first mosque to have a Dome and Minaret, which was laid by Hindu Zamorin Ruler, marking the great tolerance. This is famous among tourists to visit, as its historic tradition and a mosque in pure typical Kerala Hindu style and a golden dome covering over its original sugarcane dome.


 * Pazhayangadi Mosque; 5-km from Karipur Airport-Kozhikode. The Mughal style architectured Mosque has a lovely white dome and intricate filigree work. Amidst the coconut palms in the distance, the Mosque looks highly attractive. I;t is an 18th century creation. The annual festival called Valia Nercha (big offering) is immensely popular near and far.


 * Jamat Mosque; Malappuram-Venkara Road:- Modelled after temple, this 280 years old Mosque has blue doors and snow-white walls to give it a distinction it rightly deserves. It was built under the directions of the Hindu Prana Nambi family. The mighty family had once usurped the properties of Muslims by sheer muscle power. The tears of many affected Muslims had an adverse effect on the Nambi family, resulting in incurable illness to them. To get rid of the trauma they were advised to build a Mosque as repentance. The Malappuram Jamat Mosque is the result of it.


 * Malik Dinar Mosque; Thalangana in Kasargod:- Malik Ibn Dinar, a slave’s son, was an ardent disciple of Prophet Mohamed. He was the initiator of Islam propagation in Kerala. This Mosque was also built by him. The body of Ibn Dinar was buried within the Mosque. There is annual Urs festival which is celebrated to commemorate the arrival of Malik Dinar in Kasargod. The Urs attracts pilgrims from all over India in thousands.

There are many big and small mosques all over Kerala. Other than a few, most of the mosques are of no value for any tourists to see, as its purely worship areas. However if you are a Muslim tourist and looking for visiting religions sites, do check with locals, to identify other popular options in the locality. Many mosques, donot allow women inside; if those which allows ladies inside, take extra care to dress modesty and all covering. Photographs is strictly NO inside any mosques.

Buddhist temples
The current remains of Buddhist temples are mainly at


 * Karumadi-Kuttan near Ambalapuzha, which has a small shrine dedicated to Lord Budhha, worshipped by locals as Karumadi Kuttan.


 * The Statue of Buddha at Mavelikara, in Alleppy district has the largest statute of Buddha, nearly 4 four feet sized. This is the most preserved statute of Buddha in Padmasana posture. A small shrine is constructed around it, though no rites are performed.


 * Koickalethu Buddhist Temple, Vetticode; located in Alleppy district, is one of the last Buddhist temples in Kerala, with some regular rites conducted in Buddhist style. Today it attracts a large number of tourists.


 * International Meditation Society of Wayanad; Kalpetta; has established a small Buddhist Theravada Hall for Buddhist prayers and Meditation along with lectures about Buddhist Philosophy. Ideal for Buddhist tourists to have a meditation and Yoga sessions here


 * Bhagawan Buddha Faith Mission; Neyyanttinkara; 20 Kms from Trivandrim City, this organization is engaged in spread of Buddhist thoughts and values. It primarily a Buddhist teaching organization with meditation and yoga facilities. Located at Nagarjuna Apartments- 1ST Floor,R.C.Road. Note:- this is a private association.

Hinduism

 * Sabarimala (in Pathanamthitta) - Hindu holy site. is very famous for  its diety Lord Dharmasastha or Ayyappan as commonly called, believed to son of Lord Shiva and Vishnu. The saintly god, is always in meditation, believed to give darshan only for 41 days in a year starting from 1st of Malayalam Month of Vrishickam (16 or 17th of Nov) till last week of December. The appearance of celestial flame in skies on Makara Jyothi day (Mostly on mid of Jan), is one of the most auspicious day, though pulls one of the most heaviest crowd for a glimpse of this mysterious celestial appearance.  This is one of the most crowded places in India during the pilgrimage season from November to January. Also, temple authorities do not allow women into the temple grounds, supposedly to avoid tempting the deity, as being the lord considered as a Chronic Bachelor. The temple is open only on 41 days during Mandalam (Pilgrimage) Season as well as on 1st day of each Malayalam Month. Ideally male tourists can choose the second option, as best time to visit. Ladies above 60 and girls below 12 are permitted in. Certain rituals have to be followed, which could be consulted with any local priest in any neighbourhood temples.


 * Guruvayoor - the Sree Krishna temple here is one of the most important pilgrimage centres in India. One of the 108 Maha Vishnu temples of India, this temple is believed to constructed by Deva Guru (Guru of Gods) as well as Lord Vayu Deva (God of winds) on orders of Lord Krishna, during his death time. The temple do have the deity worshiped by Lord Krishna during his lifetime in Dwaraka (Gujarat) and brought to Kerala, after Dwaraka was taken over by seas. One of the most sacred temples, its extremely famous for its murals and sculptures. Non-Hindus are not allowed inside and foreign tourists, who are Hindus, must show certificate of Hinduism (if converted) to enter inside. However a visit to this temple town is really worthy, to see the grandeur of the temple. The lord of Guruvayur is believed to be the owner of Largest number of Domesticated Elephants in the world, having more than 65 elephants in its stables. A visit to Punathur Kotta (Elephant Fort), is a must for any tourist, to get awestruck seeing the luxurious lifestyle of these elephants in a large Palace courtyard, exclusively for them. The best time is to visit during Monsoon season, when the elephants gets one month long Ayurvedic treatments and pleasure massages, something really amazing for most of the tourists. The temple is also famous for its arts. Every evenings, a special dance unique to the temple, called Krishnanattom (Dance of Krishna) stages outside the temple. The Elephant race held prior to Temple festival, is also an interesting sport for any tourists.


 * Sree Padmanabha Temple (Trivandrum):- is a popular sacred temple, located in the heart of the city. The city of Thiruvanathapuram gots its name from the Temple and one of the 108 Great Vishnu temples. The Lord, Sree Padmanabha is an unique form of Lord Vishnu, in a sleeping posture which is rarely seen else. This temple holds a very important position in Kerala History, as the Lord Sree Padmanabha was crowned as Emperor of Travancore in 17th century and all the later rulers of Travancore ruled the state in his name and with designation as Sree Padmanabhadasa(servant of lord padmanabha). Thus regality is spread in every air of the temple. This temple belongs to Travancore Royal Family. Its very famous its 108 beautiful craved sculptures pillar, other sculptures, murals, stone works etc. The Royal Crown of Travancore is also preserved inside this temple, though its off-the-limits to public. The Temple is guarded by Palace Guards of Travancore and do have many unique customs and codes, which must be rigoursly followed inside temple, considering the Regal status of the Lord. Non-Hindus are strictly not allowed inside temples. Dress code is very strict. Ladies has to wear Mundu-Neriyathu or Sari and gents have to wear Mundu without shirt. No Camera, baggage, mobiles etc allowed inside. The Travancore Maharaja and his family visits the temple everyday from 8:00 am to 8:45 am, and during his visit, the no body else is allowed inside.

The 2 Royal Arrattus and Navarathiri are main festivals of the temple and its worth to see the festivities.


 * Ettumanoor-Vaikom-Kaduthurthy Temple:- The Trio Temples located at Ettumanoor, Vaikom, Kaduthurthy temples (all located in same road with a distance of 20 to 30 Kms between each), located in Kottayam district, are popular Shiva temples. Believed established all on same day, its sacred to visit all the temples within a Day. Very famous for its large super imposing structures at Vaikom and Ettumanoor Templs. Ettumanoor Temple is also well known for its Seven and a Half Golden Elephants (Idols) which is taken out during festival. Vaikom Shiva Temple was one the major site of Kerala renaissance movements, where first major protests against untouchability and casteism in Hinduism was organized. Mahatma Gandhi visited this place, as a solidarity for the Vaikom Satyagarh, which finally resulted in opening up of temples for all castes and creed.


 * Kodungallor Temple- Kodungallor in Thrissur District in NH 17, is a very famous Devi temple, that highlights the historical relations between Ancient Tamil Empires of Chera, Cholas and Pandyas. This temple is believed to have Kannakki (Heroine of Ancient Tamil epic-Silampardikaram) in a fiery form, after destroying Madurai. The temple was built in 1st century AD by Chera Emperors. Hence, many unique ancient tamil customs still followed in this temple. The Goddess is believed to be Goddess of Epidemic and worship helps to control it. The sacred red turmeric of the temple is said to be highly effective against diseases like chicken pox etc.

Kodungallor was one of the oldest ports in the world, known in Greek as Muziris, which was described by Roman Emperor Caesar as Land where silk forms road and milk & honey flowing on it. It was the capital of Chera Emperors, untill its partition in 7th century AD.


 * Thiruvanchikulam Shiva Temple:- Near Kodungallor Temple. This is one of the most ancient Shiva temples of the country, believed to established during 4th BC by the Villuvar Chera Tribe, much before their accession as Chera Emperors. The speciality of this Shiva temple is that, its the only temple in South India, where Lord Shiva and Goddess Paravati along with their full family reside inside one sanatorium. Due to this form, this temple is famous for couples and marriages. The entire temple was designed as a Palace for the Lord, with Rest Rooms for Shiva and Parvathi, Bed rooms, Guard Rooms etc, which itself is very unique. The temple has largest number of Sub-Idols to worship (around 21) and a tank with waters from Ganges drawn to it was also established. This temple shares a unique relation with Chidambharam in Tamil Nadu and formed basis of the latter. Built in Tamil style, this was re-modified in Kerala style after its destruction during Chera-Chola war. The Capital city of Imperial Cheras referred as Mahodayapuram, was located here and archeological excavations going one, to find traces of the lost Chera Capital city.


 * Choothanikara Devi Temple:- 20 Kms from Kochi City, a very famous Devi Temple, believed to have 3 forms of the Goddess in 3 phases of day. Famous during Navarathiri time


 * Mannarasala - Nagaraja Temple located in Haripad near Alleppy. The most famous Snake temple in Kerala. This is believed to be capital of Snake God- the Vasuki (Naga Raja) and his consorts- Naga Yakshi (Snake Ghostess) as well as Naga Rani (Snake Queen) along with a huge battalion of Snake army. Naga aradhana(worship of snakes) is very unique to Kerala's culture, as its believed Kerala is derived out of Naga Empire and most of the people do worship snakes as a Thanksgiving for lending their land for humans to live. Snakes are believed to keep the vision of eyes as well as preserving fertility of humans. Hence they are worshiped for bestowing children as well as curing blindness. Manarsala temple is a wonderful place, built within a natural forest with trees and creepers covering the area, where snakes live. The only temple, where its a lady priest who worships and do rituals. A special ceremony, by which an Uruli (a brass open vessel used for cooking) is turn up-side down before the sanatorium, to seek bestowing children by childless couples. Its believed that they get conceived within 21 days of time.


 * Ambalapuzha Sree Krishna Temple:- 20 Kms from Alleppy, is a celebrated Krishna temple. The main diety Lord Krishna is in a Baby form, so very important for children and babies to worship. The baby Krishna is believed to be naughty, so no offerings will be returned back, unlike other Krishna temples. Very famous for its extremely distinctive Paal-Payasam (A sweet Milk dessert made out of Rice with Jaggery in Milk) which has a very unique taste due to an extremely guarded secret recipe and specialty of the Kitchen where its made. Its believed the same cooks, cannot reproduce the same taste using same ingredients, anywhere, due to special blessing given by Lord to his favourite Kitchen. Must try if you are somewhere near to this temple. Everyday exactly at 12:00 Noon, this payasam shall be distributed. Only those who have prior booking, get from temple, though you can get it from the stall just outside the temple.


 * Lokanarkavu Temple- Perithalmana, Malapuram - very famous temple in Malabar side, having associated with famous Kerala Ballards (Vakkum Pattu), is associated with heroic deeds of Thacholi Family (A knight family during Feudal era).The goddess Durga here, is believed to sit in a War form, eagerly waiting to cry for battle. Numerous of myths and stories exist with the temple.


 * Thirunavaya Banks:- is a large river bank on shores of River Nila. This river bank hold stories of Biggest Hindu Festival of south India- Mamankam (similar to Kumbh Mela of North), which got extinct in 18th century after annexation of Malabar by British. However the heroic deeds of Malabar soldiers against traditional Suicide squad of Valluvanad and related historical tales, still remain fresh in its air. Due to the tradition of war on its river bank, today its a major place for Post-Death rituals for Hindus as well as for immersing ashes after cremation. Thirunavaya has the only 2nd Brahma Temple in India, after Pushkar in Rajasthan.


 * Sree Parassinikadu Muttappan Temple- Kannur, is an extremely unique temple to whole of India, where there is NO IDOL to worship, rather a Ritualistic art-form (Muttappan theyam) to worship. The temple is built in concept of Eternal Unity and Universal worship, do have many legends. The Muttappan is believed to be a form of Lord Shiva, in a Non-Brahmincal form, thus making it a general mass figure. Here regular performances of Theyyam is considered sacred and many unique customs are followed.


 * Kalady - birthplace of Sri Adi Sankara, pioneering Advaita philosopher and place with numerous ashrams and a big Sharada Devi temple.

Christianity
Kerala was one of the first places where Christianity reached, much before it spread elsewhere, including Europe. St.Thomas, the Apostle; came to Kerala in 52 AD to spread the message of Christian and thus established the roots of Christianity in Kerala. The first set of Christian immigrants from Syria who was tormented by the Jews and Romans, reached Kerala soon after demise of St.Thomas and became part of Malayalee culture. They are known as Nasarani (one who follows the Nazareth - the Christ). This lead to formation of Syrian Christianity in Kerala, which is one of the strongholds of Syrian Orthodox Church in the world. Coupled with European colonization and spread of European Missionaries, brought Catholicism to Kerala alone. The Portuguese spread the Latin Catholicism which is more popular than Roman Catholicism came much later. Today Kerala has one of the most native and unique Christianity strongly merged into Malayalee culture and formed its own distinctive trademark across the world. Kerala is one of the few places in the world, where one can find very large number of churches. Almost a chapel or church is bound to see at every 100 m.

Islam
Kerala's trading relations with West Asia, has brought Islam to its shores, soon after its formation in Arabia, thro' Arab Traders. Its believed Islam reached Kerala in 600 AD, during lifetime of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH). Islam entered Kerala with an official fanfare and patronage from the ruling Hindu Chera Emperor and ever since that, Islam became one of the most popular religions in the state. Unlike other parts of India, Kerala Muslims are mainly formed due to its descendency from Arabs thro' inter-religion marriages between leading Hindu Nair Families, thus are called Mappillas (meaning- Son-in-laws). Unlike other parts of India, Muslims are given high profile rankings in Kerala society by ruling Hindu Rajas and most of them are placed as close companions of ruling elite. This made majority of Kerala Muslims highly forward class of people, unlike their counterparts in India. Most of Muslims are highly educated and placed at very important positions. Kerala's Islam is slightly different from Islam from other parts of South Asia, as Kerala follows Shafi'i School, rather than highly conservative Hanafi school elsewhere.

Due to higher status of Muslims in society, particularly many holding prominent positions in Royal Courts of Zamorin's Malabar, Cochin, Travancore, many mosques are established at prominent places, with lots of grandeur and design. Unlike other parts of India, Islamic Architecture in Kerala, traditionally very much similar to Kerala Temple architecture without much of Persian influence, though recently new mosques are built in Arab Style due to over-growing Arab influence in Kerala society.

Normally in Kerala, Mosques and Churches are referred as PALLI, not masjids as found in other parts of India.

Judaism
Kerala was once home of largest Indian Jews, with a strong thriving Jew culture, especially in Kochi region. During the Crusade, the fall of Jerusalem, made a large number of Jewish immigrants to Kerala. The Chera Kulashekara Emperor, granted Jews to settle down in Kochi region as well as Kollam area and issued them various grants and privileges. This resulted in formation of a thriving Jewish culture. Unlike elsewhere, Kerala is one of the few places in the world, where Jews lived in peaceful and utmost harmony with Muslim and Christian brothers nearby and with no reported violence against Jews. Cochini Jews became the largest segment of Jews and several famous Synagogues were established, though the first Jewish Synagogue, which was established in 15th century (Commonwealth's oldest Synagogue), is the only remaining one. During Portuguese rule, several Jewish Synagogue was raided and many was demolished, untill Kochi Kingdom officially asked the Portuguese to stop attacking Cochini Jews. This resulted in existence of only 2 Synagogues in Kerala- the Paradesi Synagogue of Mattachery (must see while in Kochi) and a small one in Paravur. Tourists normally visit these two synagogues, as they primarily became tourist spots after mass emigration of Cochini Jews to Israel, making only a few elderly remaining back. However Saturday will be off-the-limit for Non-Jews, being service days.

Jainism
Jainism reached Kerala during the Maurya period, when the Great Mauryan Emperor Chandragupta Maurya retired to Shravanabelagola near Mysore in 3rd Century BC, though a large number of Jain monks accompanied with him. Jainism became extremely popular in Kerala, with large number of Jain temples, untill 6th Century AD when there was a revival of Hinduism in Kerala. The decline of Jains, made many great temples of Jains in Kerala, to get converted into large Hindu temples. The classic example is the famous Irinjalakoda Bharatha Temple which originally was a Jain temple dedicated to Saint Bharatheswara, a Jain monk, which was converted into a Hindu Temple in 5th century AD as Lord Bharatha (Brother of Sree Rama). Many Jain temples later got demolished during Tipu Sultan's raid. However currently a few temples remain mainly in Wayanad and Palakkad districts, that has a few Native Jain believers. Kochi and Kozhikode has Jain temples, mainly established by Gujarathi Community, after their settlement. Most of the Jain Temples are popular tourists sites, especially in Wayanad area.

Some of them are


 * Jain Derasar in Mattancherry (Kochi) - This derasar is dedicated to Theerthankara Shree Dharmnath Swamy. It has completed 100 years and has become a Theerth. A sthanak is also there inside the big temple complex. There is a big Jain Community in Kochi. It was built by Gujarathi Community who have settled here for past 200 years for trading. Its more popularly known as Gujarathi Temple. A must visit for any tourist in Kochi, due to its towering North Indian Architecture.
 * Jain Derasar in Allepey - This temple is located in Allepey (Allappuzha) which is also known as the Venice of the east. It is very calm and quiet temple. Allepey has a very small Jain population.
 * Jain Derasar in Kozhikode city - There are 2 temples inside the temple complex of which one is over 2500 years old and has 1000 pillars.

There are nearly 12 major Jain temples in Wayanad, with a few still functioning. Some of them are


 * Puliyarmala Jain Temple, 6 kms from Kalpetta; is a very famous Jain temple dedicated to Anantnath Swami. It is a large temple complex, built in Dravidan-Hoysala style. Tipu Sultan used this temple as an ammunitions storage and stationed a large battery of arms and ammunitions inside this temple, which resulted in naming the city as Sultan Battery. A must see for tourists, with large number of Jain statues and sculptures and many relics in ruins


 * Hodangadi Basadi (Manathavadi)
 * Puthiyadam Adeeshwara Swamy temple (Manathavady)
 * Sri Parshwanatha Swamy temple (Anchukunnu)
 * Parshwanatha temple(Palukunnu)
 * Sri Chandranatha Basadi (Puthangadi)
 * Varadur Sri Anathaswamy te,ple (Panamaram Meenangadi Road)
 * Hanarudibidi Basadi (Sulthan Bathery)
 * Santhu natha Basadi(Venniyodu)
 * Chandranathagiri (Kalpatta-Myladipara)
 * Kuthirakkodu temple (Thirunelli)
 * Edakkal Caves: 25km from Kalpetta, is a very popular tourist spot with lot of religious significance. These natural caves have wonderful paintings and inscriptions belonging to Stone Age and many are well preserved. Many Jain monks have meditate from here, attaining Nirvana, making this place a popular Jain religious area. However its a wonderful spot for trekking, site-seeing as well as understanding the Stone-age civilization here.

Note:- Many Jain temples are not functioning today, though the Kochi and Kozhikode opens are still active. Please check whether the Jain temple is active or not before visiting, as its very important to dress modesty while entering an active Jain Temple. Jains believe in utmost non-violence and donot like even to kill any living organism accidentally too, thus they cover their noses and mouth, least it kills any small mosquitoes while entering mouth. You have to cover your nose and mouth while in temple with a towel and must cover head. Donot take any pictures of Jain monks, as some Jain Monks believe in nudity and taking their pictures is considered offensive. However many temples in Wayanad are no more active and pure tourist enclaves, where restrictions donot apply. Check with locals, before proceeding.

Buddhism
Buddhism was once a very popular religion in Kerala, untill 6th century AD when Hinduism was strongly revived in all parts of Kerala, marking decline of the religion in Kerala. Today the state has no Buddhist population and almost all famous Buddhist temples in Kerala has been converted into large Hindu temples, some still having Buddhist saints worshiped. The famed Vadakkumnath Temple in Thrissur was a large Buddhist Vihara, which was converted into a Hindu Temple. There are nearly 12 small shrines inside this temple, carrying motiffs of popular Buddhist Monks.

KOICKALETHU BUDDHIST TEMPLE
Koickalethu Buddhist Temple is a famous Buddhist Temple in Kerala.It is at Vetticode in Alappuzha District. A large number of tourists and belivers comming here to worship.

BUDDHA STATUE MAVELIKKARA

 * Isn't the above stuff about religion in the state (minus the listings) general info that does belong here? (WT-en) Texugo 03:01, 7 March 2010 (EST)


 * There is already a well written and mercifully succinct religion sub-section in understand. The content of this page was all elsewhere in the article. The general religion blurb that I stuck here came with the listings and could just be deleted. This article needs loads more work if anyone fancies it. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 04:42, 7 March 2010 (EST)

Disagreement with Burmesedays
I disagree to many of so-called made by Burmesedays, as most of the content which I made on Kerala page, is only to help any traveller to know more about Kerala just looking into it.

By deleting crucial contents, it makes no use to keep knowing abt Kerala. I have expanded the content and there is no hard and fast rule that content must be one liner. I am updating most of the Kerala relevant articles. At this moment, its extremely bad for you to delete lots of matter, that is of keen interest of visiting Kerala - Arunvarmaother


 * According to Wikivoyage's policy, texts from other sites are prohibited as they are copyrighted unless they are released into public domain or either you have the consent of the author. -(WT-en) SnappyHip


 * I'm not sure the argument is over the text being from a copyright source. I think the main issue is that these listings should really appear within the relevant City article rather than residing on the Region article. I suspect that most people looking to visit a region would look into the cities as well, and the text is probably more useful there. Given one of the aims is that the site is easy to use on a mobile device, and given that many mobile data plans charge by the byte coupled with the low speeds of mobile data it is preferable to have smaller pages.
 * I guess the idea is that if someone is visiting Kerala they may only actually be in one or 2 cities, so they look at the Region page, then the relevant city pages. Therefore, if all that info is on the Kerala page, it is a lot of data to download; most of which will be irrelevant to the reader and therefore a waste of time/bandwidth.
 * We are not necessarily saying we don't want the data; we just want it somewhere where it is more relevant. That place is on the City article rather than the Region article; which, as I understand it, already has some outline info on Religion will be enough to tell the reader that such attractions exist in the area and then they can get more info from the individual cities. (WT-en) Nrms 11:44, 7 March 2010 (EST)

But by deleting some of the important information regarding Kerala, I don't know what is usefuL of keeping Kerala Information. I agree in reduction of some content regarding religion part, but it doesn't mean, the entire information is cut short and crucial information deleted. Arunvarmaother


 * If you want to keep the current edit please simplify your edits because it's so long. -(WT-en) SnappyHip


 * I guess the best place to point you at is Where you can stick it. This acts as a reference on where information should be located. The bits I would point out as examples are:


 * cathedral - the See section of the City page
 * church (religious services) - the Cope section of the City page
 * church (sightseeing) - the See section of the City page
 * religion - the Understand section of a City, Country, or Region page
 * religious services - the Cope section of the City page
 * temple - the See section of the City page


 * From what I see in your additions there are lots of listings of chruches, temples, etc. which according to this page should not be on the Region page, but on the individual City pages. (Of course, if a City doesn't exist, feel free to create a new article for it. Templates for doing so are on Article templates. (WT-en) Nrms 11:54, 7 March 2010 (EST)


 * It is not really clear what you are specifically disagreeing with? If it is Wikivoyage policy (as seems most likely), then please take that up on the relevant talk page. In this case the region article template talk page would be a good start.
 * It would be helpful (mostly to yourself) if you take the time to read all the advice via links which I gave on your user talk page. Please do so and you will get a much better feel for Wikivoyage formating, placing of content, tone of prose etc.
 * I have not actually deleted anything. Rather, I have moved a lot of content to this talk page, so that it can be placed in the correct city article. As (WV-en) Nrms explains so well above, the individual listings should go into their relevant city article
 * Some of the content you placed was duplicated. For example there is already a well written, concise description of religion in the state in the Understand section.
 * On the city and other destination descriptions, they should be short and pithy, preferably just one phrase (alhough that is sometimes difficult). Full descriptions of the destination go on the relevant page, not in the region article. That is why I cut them down. For guidance please see our Bali article - a star quality Wiktravel region article.


 * I hope all of that is helpful, and helps you understand what should and should not be placed in a region article.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 21:48, 7 March 2010 (EST)

Reduction in content
I have reduced and moved out many of the areas, in religion area, to keep it short and precise. I marking religion as an important destination, because Kerala Tourism is keen in promoting religious tourism across the state, particularly focusing Domestic Indian tourists. As Most of Indian tourists, check Wiki travel, its important to keep a precise information on religious destinations, to plan destination routes. Most of the content has been moved out, still, wondering, why making deleting most of the information.

Some members I feel, do have vested interests, in removing useful content, to keep Kerala under-explored, for these acts, whereas allowing more information for many other states. Such discriminatory policy is bad

Arunvarmaother


 * As they say, there is a time and a place for everything. However, in the case of lists of churches, mosques, temples, etc. the place is NOT on a Regional article. These listings belong on the individual city pages, as per the Where To Stick It link I gave above. While there may be useful content somewhere in what we're removing, we are all volunteers, and sadly when faced with this sort of editing we do not have the time to sift through and (re)move content to the appropriate places; hence why your edits are now a virtual revert-on-sight. I am having a quick glance through the additions, but every time I do so, I start to see lists of religious buildings.


 * The fact that we are devoting our time to this project, once again I state as volunteers, I do not see how you can feel any of us have a vested interest in removing content. We want people to contribute relevant information, but we also want them to do it in the correct way and in the correct place. So far, despite numerous attempts from us to guide you to the resources to do this, you are continually going against these things.


 * If you feel that there is an area of policy where we are wrong, you need to discuss it in the correct place. Continually reverting where we have explained why there is something that is not inline with the site policies will not help your case.


 * Please, stop, read the comments and try and make your contributions in a way that we can all appreciate the work you have done in compiling this information. (WT-en) Nrms 12:10, 8 March 2010 (EST)

__________________________________________________________________________________ Mr. NRMS, I appreciate your comments and information. I shall work for editing the article to keep it precise. But I require some time, as i need to read, work on it. But when deletion happens inbetween, I can't work. Please do spare the page for some time, as mere deletion, doesn't help to expand the page and its a disincentive for young contributors like me, to expand

Thanks for everyone's comments. But let me remind, donot act as destroyers, you are volunteers in a Knowledge building world, hence you do have a moral responsbility of being editors, not deletors.

THANKS- ARUNVARMAOTHER


 * Thank you for taking the time to reply. My concern with saying keep the information up there while you work on it is that others may see this page in its current form and that this sort of content is OK when it isn't. This then leads to more of these situations arising where we get continual reversals of edits. Secondly, if we make an exception to the rule here, we have to do it everywhere, and then chaos and anarchy rule. This, I am sure you would agree, would be detrimental to the project. This is why we need the information to go into the correct place and not be left where it is inappropriate. I would recommend making smaller edits. This way, we don't need to revert an entire batch of content in one go and it is easier for people to copyedit and advise you. (WT-en) Nrms 12:23, 8 March 2010 (EST)

Requesting for Time to edit my own article
Dear friends

Its most unforunate, some members deleting most of article made by me, that add values to Kerala information. I don't mind if someone editing my article, but mere deletion, to keep the Kerala page, bare minimum, is surely a vested interested against Kerala by a few members. Remember, Kerala is a superbrand and more people are looking up wikivoyage as an option to check information

I promise, I will edit my article, to keep it short and precise within this week, that adds value to the content, same time keeping wiki policy. But by deleting the content, I can't edit. Please do keep this article for some time, helping me to edit the article and keep it precise and useful for all to read

Arunvarmaother


 * This isn't your article. You don't own it, and you don't control what goes in it.  We appreciate your contributions, but they have to go in the right place.  If your concern is hanging onto information that you will be moving into other guides, rest assured that the information is all available in the article's history; even if it gets removed from the current version, you can easily go back to an earlier revision and copy text from there.  If that's not suitable, you can create a subpage in your userspace (such as User:(WT-en) Arunvarmaother/sandbox) to hold your interim revisions while you work on them.
 * That said, I would also remind other editors that we have no deadlines here; a brief grace period may be in order in the case of someone who is trying to edit in good faith.
 * -- (WT-en) LtPowers 13:36, 8 March 2010 (EST)


 * Agreed. Since the request was made, although I expressed reservations for reasons explained, I did decide to hold off to see if this would happen. So far, I think it is about 90 mins since that request was made and 1 edit has been made roughly 60 mins ago which removed a small amout of text. The article is on my watch list, so we shall see what happens. (WT-en) Nrms 13:40, 8 March 2010 (EST)


 * Certainly agreed, now that you seem to have understood the importance of Wikivoyage standards. If anything is not clear, please refer to the multitude of links you have been given for guidance, and failing that, please ask here. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 22:19, 8 March 2010 (EST)


 * This article seems to be back to the way it was 24 hours ago.
 * All of the standard Wikivoyage headings and order I installed have been reverted.
 * All of the duplicated descriptions of religion have been re-inserted.
 * All of the way too long, badly written descriptions of cities (which I took time to re-write yesterday) have been re-inserted.
 * There are now two new travel topic articles Religious_destinations_of_Kerala, Festivals_of_Kerala. A good idea, but all of the content is duplicated in those new articles and here. It should all be immediately deleted from this article and linked.
 * I am more than happy to give User:(WT-en) Arunvarmaother time as requested, but all that has happened so far is the removal of good work done by others to tidy up the article.
 * I have just made some edits bringing back an Understand section and its subs.  --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:19, 9 March 2010 (EST)


 * Dear Burmesdays


 * I have been working on Kerala articles, for past 13 hours, editing my own articles, which were too long and trimming many, cut shorting most of the long ones and inserting new pictures related to Kerala. I have started two articles, Religious_destinations_of_Kerala, Festivals_of_Kerala which I am going to expand within a day's time with more information.


 * As Kerala tourism is making sure to promote Religious and Festival tourism, I feel its important to keep the two here, with more local details and time period. I am enlarging it and I feel can help Kerala tourists to know more


 * But I do object to your comments, that I removed "GOOD WORK done by others". Unlike you, who have deleted many of my articles to keep the page bare minimum, I seldom done so. I have only enlarged articles of others and today edited ONLY MY WORK, not anybody. I can proudly say, atleast 50% to 60% of the entire article of Kerala page is written by me. Kindly donot make a disincentive to young contributors like me.


 * I am committed to enlarge Kerala article and all its related article, for the sake of promoting this region. I seek your support and assistance to help me in familarizing wikipedia environment. But some of your comments and actions, haven't helped in that previously. Let me say- past is past, lets start together in enlarging Wikivoyage


 * I am glad to associate with you and seeking your support and assistance. Kindly donot delete the precious work done by me, though I welcome all your edits, which shall not be reverted by me.--(WT-en) Arunvarmaother 07:33 pm, 9 March 2010 (IST)


 * First you have reverted many of the edits I made yesterday which installed standard Wiktiravel headings in the correct order and better written, short city descriptions (for example). But that is not so important. What is important:
 * Wikivoyage never duplicates any content across articles. Therefore the content of the Religious_destinations_of_Kerala and Festivals_of_Kerala must be deleted from the main article. It was a good idea to create those travel topics but they have no purpose if the content is duplicated.
 * Even if those two new topics did not exist, most of that content is in any case inappropriate for a region article and as has been explained above and on your personal talk page, belongs in the relevant city article. Please make an effort to understand what goes where at Wikivoyage. At least four users have tried to give you some guidance on this.
 * Wikivoyage does not really care what Kerala Tourism is trying to do. We must keep our format here standard, as has been explained to you several times already.
 * Your work is of course very welcome, really it is. But please try to take on board the friendly advice that is being given to you from several other users. Thanks.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:52, 9 March 2010 (EST)

Dear Burmesedays

Infact you reverts yesterday was just to keep Kerala page bare minimum, devoid of any value information. As per Government sources, atleast 2% to 4% of annual Kerala visitors now a days use Wikivoyage as a reliable travelogue. In such a time, you can't argue to keep such a potential area, bare minimum. I personally revert, as it resulted in deletion of many information, crucial for tourists. Afterall, we all contribute here for the welfare of tourists, not for enlarging this project, Am I right?

Friend, I have created two subpages only today and I am in process of enlarging it. So case of duplication cannot exist, as once more and more information comes in.

Most of the visitors, while visiting wikivoyage, seek to know specific information. Just like a visitor to Goa search for Beach information, likewise Kerala is keen in promoting religious destinations, as a separate branch. While limiting to each region area, most of the information donot result in reaching tourists as many donot bother reading each and every page or article related to Kerala. Unlike many other places, most of religious destinations are located in small hamlets in not-so-popular places, making it average tourist NOT VISITING SUCH REGION places to check for details.

Whereas a common page for knowing such specific circuit destinations helps a lot. It makes nothing offensive to keep a page dedicated for promotion of such tourist-interested circuits and information.

Friend, whether you or me, here is to spread information BENEFICIAL for TOURISTS, not to enlarge this project as such. Our individual commitment is promote each region, thro' knowledge building activities like this, which in-turn build the project as whole. So your views in that aspect donot stand effective

I am currently developing additional information for two sub sections and value adding more information with precise way.

However I feel that there is a negative attitude against me by some here. Infact I couldn't speak to many at first instance, as I didn't know how to use this Talk option. However now Iam using this, hence we are able to have a consensus in our thoughts. As I am hearing to your advice, I feel, its of equal respect manner, when you hear my viewpoints too.

I am working to keep within Wiki standards and fashion and seeking advice of all. Thanks for your valid comments

Arunvarmaother


 * Might I suggest starting smaller, rather than taking on such a big project all at once? Things like incorrect section headings are much easier to fix when done in small edits; if you make big edits all at once, there is a great temptation to fix the many small errors by just reverting everything.  With smaller edits, each one can be looked at individually.
 * I also would again urge you to use a "sandbox" for large-scale rewriting projects, at least until you become familiar with our house style. Then, when you've gotten some progress, the sandbox version can be evaluated by other contributors for integration into the existing article.
 * Please give it some thought. (WT-en) LtPowers 12:16, 9 March 2010 (EST)

Thanks LTpowers, For your advice. I will surely consider this for all my works from now. As I am using Wiki environment for the first time, I donot know how things used to work here. With advice of kind members like many here, I am now able to do more better

I am thankful for all those who criticized me, as its criticisms that helps to change. Thanks to All- Arunvarmaother


 * I will try to explain once again.
 * I did not reduce anything to the bare minimum as you say, rather:
 * City descriptions were re-written into an acceptably concise Wiktravel format. I ask again that you check the relevant Wikivoyage pages for guidance, and re-write these yourself if you so wish.
 * Other destinations were reduced to 9 with no subsections. Again that is Wikivoyage policy - never more than 9.
 * Several blocks of text were re-written as the standard of English was terrible. I don't mind helping in that respect, but when I have taken time to improve and correct grammar, spelling and expression, it is disappointing when the changes disappear and we go back to the badly written version.
 * I installed the standard WT section headings that we use for every region article. This one is no exception.
 * I will suggest once again that you look at Bali which is a good example of a correctly formatted region article anywhere on Wikivoyage. The first level headings in that article are the only ones you should use. There is more scope to play around with second level headings, but not much.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 00:29, 10 March 2010 (EST)

Okay Burmesedays

I will be working as per your advice, to make the article, precise and enjoyable. Thanks for it dear friend.

As u see now, I haven't revert any changes brought by you now. And friend, I am a person, holding two degrees, one in English literature. I have read the article again, but found not much grammar mistakes, as you argue. Perhaps, you might be speaking in colloquial terms, which I am not sure. I am again editing the article, for a detailed grammar check. But I welcome your assistance in correcting grammar or expressions.

I thank for your support-Arunvarmaother


 * Arunvarmaother, please let us know when you have finished with your edits. I would really like to go through the article and polish it up, but I will certainly wait for you to finish before doing so. Cheers. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 09:07, 11 March 2010 (EST)

Arunvarmother, you really must stop doing this! I took some time earlier to start correcting some very poor grammar, typos and strange expressions. For example, you wrote this:

Kerala has three distinct seasons. The Summer, Monsoon and Winter. Its summer season from Mid February. to Mid of May. The tropical sun is really hot and temperatures can go upto 35°C in afternoons. From Mid of May till early September, its rainy season in Kerala, which is called as Monsoon Season, named after the North-East Monsoon winds which brings heavy showers. Kerala has very little or no winter and officially classified as Mild winter due to lower temperatures, which is around Mid of October to early February. Heavy rains occur during last week of September till early November, due to the retreat of South-East monsoon rains. There is no snowy season in Kerala, though its pretty cold and misty in mountain regions.

I edited it to read:

Kerala has three distinct seasons:
 * Summer lasts from from mid-February to mid-May. The tropical sun is really hot and temperatures can go up to 35°C in the afternoons.
 * The monsoon is in place from mid-May until early September. The North-East Monsoon winds bring heavy showers.
 * Winter is mild and lasts from about mid-October to early February. Heavy rains occur from the last week of September until until early November, due to the retreat of the South-East monsoon. There is no snow in Kerala, although it is quite cold and misty in the mountain regions.

And then you changed it back! Why? The first version is full of terrible grammar. I changed nothing of the sense of what you wrote, but I did correct the poor English.

And why have re-instated the huge festivals section when you have a specific article for that topic? Have you not read all of the previous comments about why that is not permissable? Lots of people have tried to help you with this article, but patience is running very thin.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:40, 12 March 2010 (EST)

Dear Burmesedays,

I didn't revert what you have written, I have reverted by own article written before you, thereby reverting yours too, which I didn't know nor see it. Anyhow, I identified where you made the grammar changes and revert to your version, as I donot prefer any unnecessary conflict.

But I still donot understand whats the grammar mistake, which you are talking about. Perhaps we may be talking in terms of colloquial difference, as my grammar is prefectly correct. I do write first in word document, use a grammar check with help of a grammar check software and then import here. So I don't think there is much grammar conflict. Perhaps I do make a few abbreviations which may be different in your cultural context. However I do check on that abbreviation part. I would kindly request you, to stop the spreading the impression against me, that I am poor in grammar, which is not true.

Then coming to festival parts, in every star article of various cities or states, there is a detailed description of festival in the article, which no one objects. Then whats wrong in having Festivals in Kerala page? I have reduced the description, cut short all of them to just 2 paragraphs and reduced lot of content in it. A separate article is meant for more detailed description, which includes more festivals, which I don't need to mention in the main Kerala page. The festival article in Kerala page is only a brief article, limiting just to 4 major festivals of Kerala, whereas the separate page will soon feature atleast 20 to 30 festivals that may be an interest for travellers. So the case of duplication donot exist.

Another thing is that, I didn't re-instate any deleted festival article. The only thing I did was I deleted the festival article written in "DO" section and brought it to "SEE" section as there is nothing a tourist can do while in festivals. Its just a visual experience, hence brought to see part, as common to any star article.

I welcome in further triming of festival article, which I am looking into, in the Main Kerala page.

Kindly donot make unnecessary allegations which donot stand valid. Hope I have cleared all your allegations. I feel there is no need of conflict between us, as its friendship that makes such projects more better. I am committed in expanding wikivoyage and surely contribute more. I welcome your criticisms. Thanks and best wishes

With regards Arun


 * Actually, your grammar does leave a lot to be desired. Is English your first language?  (WT-en) LtPowers 13:51, 12 March 2010 (EST)


 * Right.
 * First, please stop all this daft talk of allegations. I made that request in another discussion where you accused other users of the same. There are no allegations.


 * English Wikivoyage welcomes users who do not have English as their first language, and people like myself are quite happy to tidy up the language and grammar. But not when their work is changed back to an original poorly written version. You say you did not do that. Well who did then? I suspect what you did is paste in a block of text written offline over the top of the corrections I had made. You should check the edit history of the article before doing this.


 * I really did not want to point out problems with grammar, as it is petty. But as you will not accept this, let me take the same climate paragraph from above:


 * Kerala has three distinct seasons. The Summer, Monsoon and Winter. Its summer season from Mid February. to Mid of May. The tropical sun is really hot and temperatures can go upto 35&deg;C in afternoons. From Mid of May till early September, its rainy season in Kerala, which is called as Monsoon Season, named after the North-East Monsoon winds which brings heavy showers. Kerala has very little or no winter and officially classified as Mild winter due to lower temperatures, which is around Mid of October to early February. Heavy rains occur during last week of September till early November, due to the retreat of South-East monsoon rains. There is no snowy season in Kerala, though its pretty cold and misty in mountain regions.


 * The Summer, Monsoon and Winter is not a sentence, there is no verb.
 * Summer, winter etc should not have initial capitals unless they are part of a place name or the first word of a sentence.
 * Its summer, should be It's summer or It is summer. This error is repeated. Its summer is a possessive, i.e. the summer belongs to something or somebody.
 * Mid should not have an initial capital., and should preferably precede a hyphen. E.g. mid-May and not Mid May, and definitely not Mid of May.
 * ...which is called as Monsoon Season is gibberish.
 * winds do not brings, they bring.


 * That is just four lines and I could go on, but it should not be necessary. The key point is that you should please accept that others will correct the article, and not blindly defend the indefensible.
 * Kerala has the potential to be a good Wikivoyage region article. You have added a great deal of good quality base material, and thank you for that. It will not become a good article though until it is written and presented properly.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 22:00, 12 March 2010 (EST)

Pictures
Are those pictures really on Creative Commons license 2.5? -(WT-en) SnappyHipJustAteMashedPotatoes 12:47, 10 March 2010 (GST)
 * And also please limit the number of cities and destinations to 9, if you can't, then move them to the region articles. -(WT-en) SnappyHipJustAteMashedPotatoes 12:51, 10 March 2010 (GST)

Kerala map
I will make a WT style map to substitute the present one, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 03:39, 13 March 2010 (EST)


 * Excellent. I am sure you know this, but there are a whole bunch of suitably licenced base images to work from at Commons.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 04:20, 13 March 2010 (EST)

Kudos ClausHansen. I assure all my assistance to you, for making a Wikivoyage map. Do mail to me at arunvarmaother@gmail.com, if you require any assistance or information about Kerala- Arunvarmaother

In the map just released, pls note its Karnataka, that makes the northern border state to Kerala, not Andhra Pradesh as mentioned there. Kindly edit this mistake. Also pls check that the location of Kochi is slightly different as its excatly on coastline, not far away. Moreover the backwaters is also missing. Still kudos for making a wonderful WT map


 * Wonderful map, but yes, Andhra Pradesh does not border Kerala, this should read Karnataka. – 38.110.81.190 18:44, 28 December 2023 [signature added]

Images
I have removed the follow images and nominated them for deletion for violating our people in photos policy, our policy on montages or both.
 * Image:KERALA GODS OWN COUNTRY.jpg
 * Image:Sweets of Kerala.jpg
 * Image:Cuisines of Kerala.jpg
 * Image:Ayurveda.jpg
 * Image:Festivals of Kerala.jpg
 * Image:Mundu and SetSari.jpg
 * Image:Mohiniyattam 3818274226 54abaf1a25 o.jpg

(WT-en) Texugo 08:10, 13 March 2010 (EST)

Dear Texugo, All these images are from copyright free source of Kerala tourism, HENCE IT DOESNOT AFFECT PRIVACY of any individual featured in these photographs, as these people featured in the photo-graphs are official brand-ambassadors of Kerala tourism and regularly featured elsewhere for promotion. I object the removal of these photographs.

Secondly most of other pictures uploaded where not excatly Montages as MONTAGES means sequential photographs. They were different pictures, arranged as collage, inorder to reduce the number of pictures to be uploaded, keeping the best interest of people using wikivoyage in low-bandwidth or using mobile, as more images could increase the size.

As per now, I find nothing violates the current norms and policy of wikivoyage and must be reverted. Arunvarmaother


 * When a matter of policy is involved, please do not revert the edit. I have removed the images again. The matter should be debated here before the images are re-instated or otherwise. I have not had a chance to have a close look yet, but I see this one at least also has no source or credit information? You mention they are "from copyright free source of Kerala tourism". Where is that source please? --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:12, 13 March 2010 (EST)


 * Collage is one type of montage, if you care to check Wikipedia, and it is clearly this type of image that the policy is geared toward preventing. As for the people in photos, it's a little more complicated than that. Even if those people agreed to allow their image to be used for Kerala tourism, if you relicense them here, they could then be used for everything under the sun, which may not be something those individuals actually signed up for, which is why we would need a model release expressly for use here. (WT-en) Texugo 10:34, 13 March 2010 (EST)

Kindly refer, www.keralatourism.org, for a detailed list of copyright free images. As per Kerala Govt order- GO 2385, all images used by Kerala tourism are copyright free and released for public domain for reproduction for any promotional use of Kerala tourism, though prohibited for any commercial use. Arunvarmaother


 * Thanks Arun. But that website has a copyright notice. Can you please point me to the Kerala state govt law? Sorry to be anal about this, but we take copyright matters very seriously. Don't forget that Wikivoyage is a commercial site, and that we freely license all content for re-use, commercial or otherwise. So we have to check every single image uploaded here. --Burmesedays 10:26, 13 March 2010 (EST)


 * Copyright notice in Kerala tourism is limited to just 5 to 7 images, where the notice is written on the image, as they are taken by individual photographers and licensed to Kerala tourism for its use. However no other images carries the copyright notice tags. The law that governs Kerala tourism copyright free image is GO 2385, passed by Department of Tourism, Govt of Kerala to permit all users of Kerala tourism to reproduce images without copyright tag, for any kind of Kerala Tourism promotion. The law states that, its free for any promotional activities in general tourism promotion. The only prohibition is re-use of such photographs for NON-TOURISM PURPOSES and for commercial purposes unrelated to tourism, which is prosecutable in any Kerala courts

Hope you are clear about the law and if you wish, you can mail to Kerala :tourism


 * With regards- Arunvarmaother
 * One of my points was that once it is re-licensed here, it becomes available for any use whatsoever. We cannot preserve that prohibition of non-tourism use. Once the picture is here, someone, if they wanted, would be totally free to cut out faces, paste them on dancing monkey bodies, throw it on a website and charge people 5 bucks per viewing if they so desire.(WT-en) Texugo 11:14, 13 March 2010 (EST)

Dear Texugo, Kerala Police maintains an excellent cyber police division, which has arrested any anti-socials earlier, who has violated cyber law. Recently the police arrested a few Nigerians from Egypt and extradited to Kerala for prosecution on charges of violation of Cyber Law. If anybody does so, regarding kerala, they can go and file a complaint at Cyber station. Anyhow, I am respecting your viewpoint and re-uploaded some other images that are under Wiki-commons licence as well as mosaic the faces in the images. Thanks- Arunvarmaother


 * There would be no case to answer to the Kerala Police. Once again, if an image is freely licensed at WT, anyone can do anything with it. They would be breaking no law. That is why we have to check. This is not Texugo's viewpoint or anyone else's, it is Wikivoyage policy.
 * The images you are uploading, be they from Commons or anywhere else, MUST have a template filled out with source, credit and licence information. I said this to you before. All the images you have uploaded without that information are likely to be deleted unless you put it right. Instead of uploading more images, please go back through all the others and add the required information.
 * Masking the faces on an image is just ridiculous, so that image will be immediately deleted.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:37, 13 March 2010 (EST)


 * Dear Burmesedays, I have no objection in deleting that masked image, when the original image is under creative commons licence attribution 3.0 and also commonly popular in almost all wikipedia sites. I masked, because the members expressed reservations of using face picture. I don't know how to exhibit costume without one's picture. Since the former picture are reputed brand ambassadors, which some reservations made, I uploaded the regular picture used in all Wiki media.


 * And as you adviced, I have mentioned the source and using the templates as mentioned by u. You can check the images and understand yourself, which indicates clear source, original file and licence details. Please check, before making statements


 * And regarding WT policy or not, if the source have no objection in its licence terms, and actively encouraging to put in public places (as kerala tourism donot use copyright tag in its images), then there is no question of re-licensing etc. I was talking to Texugo's comment what can happen, if some one use such pictures for porn sites, not a general query.


 * Arunvarmaother


 * Sigh. I have checked, of course I have. Here are some of your images which have no source or credit information:, , ,

. I will stop there. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 12:01, 13 March 2010 (EST)


 * If someone used it for a porn site, and if the police actually did get involved, the blame would surely fall back on you, since you are the one who is re-licensing it in a way that leads people to believe such use is legal. (WT-en) Texugo 11:58, 13 March 2010 (EST)

More images
OK, this image thing is getting ridiculous. Now the Eat section has a whopping eleven images, which is far more than we need as our policy encourages the minimal use of images. In addition, there are still unresolved source/copyright issues with the images in the above discussion, and now this new batch of them are credited to a screen name with an unverifiable link to the direct image on blog sites. Tineye reveals that they were posted on this Google groups thread in December of 2007, also without further accreditation. I'm going to move them all here until this is resolved. I'm getting a little tired of this. {removed} (WT-en) Texugo 12:10, 15 March 2010 (EDT)

These pictures all have a verifiable source, which is added in its source. All these images are posted by Amazer, a blogger who has published it for world wide-release. http://amazingphotos4all.blogspot.com/2009/04/kerala-food-items-special-gallery.html

These pictures are copyright free and its regularly passed as email attachments. Even in this so-called group, it was posted by one member as an email attachment. I think, you must first check the authenticity before stating something

Arunvarmaother


 * For future reference, it is better to link web pages as a source, rather than link directly to the image files. This helps reduce confusion and makes it easier to verify the copyright status of those images.  That said, I looked at the link you provided and can't find any indication that the images are licensed under a free license.  How do you know that the pictures are copyright-free?  (WT-en) LtPowers 12:40, 15 March 2010 (EDT)
 * Plus, that blogger posted those photos almost a year and a half after they appeared on the Google Groups page I found. And just because bloggers are posting them or people are emailing them around does not testify anything at all towards verifying their copyright status. We need to know the original source and see that it was licensed compatibly. (WT-en) Texugo 12:45, 15 March 2010 (EDT)

Questions about this article
I am sure there will be many and perhaps editors can stick them here.
 * A key problem is the tone and style. It reads largely like a promotional piece from the Kerala Tourist board. Far too much about how Kerala is the best at thiss and the best at that. This is largely irrelevant fluff for the traveler.
 * What does this sentence mean please:
 * Tap water is generally safe for drinking, though tourists are advised to buy bottled water for drinking and sanitation standards as well as personal hygiene level among Malayalees are very high. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 06:08, 16 March 2010 (EDT)


 * Umm I'll correct it, it should be like this:
 * Tap Water is generally safe for drinking however tourists are advised to use bottled water for drinking instead of tap.

Cleanliness is important to Malayalees that they maintain high standards for sanitation and personal hygiene.


 * How did "drinking tap water" end up in personal hygiene and sanitation?  ^^^ Correct me if I have grammatical mistakes too. -(WT-en) SnappyHip 11:40, 17 March 2010 (GST)

Less images
So, I have now deleted all the images Arun uploaded and which I could not find any source or credit too. However, one of the worst examples was the image Mundu.jpg which was marked as  } . Well, I found the very pic on a shopping site here. I do not think the image contributions from this user, unless possible to track, are to be trusted at all. (WT-en) Riggwelter 16:12, 16 March 2010 (EDT)


 * Its a grave injustice done to a contributor. I feel a bunch of people are now playing a vested interested game. All images which i have uploaded since March 10th have a clear source and indication to its original source, ever since some administrators asked me to use the source template, which I rigoursly followed. 90% of them are taken from Kerala tourism- which are non-copyrighted as per Govt.Order 2385. And i wish to challenge riggwelter in what context he is challenging me. I have taken this picture and uploaded in many sites and released in public domain, which may be taken in many sites, which I am not bothered. I am currently working on a content management company, which owns http://www.kairalishop.com. This is a shopping portal and we have many pictures which was taken by people like us, for public release. If it was a copyrighted material, we add copyright tag over it or cross water-mark it. This picture of mine was earlier uploaded in this site, which was taken off after new pictures came in. Perhaps it might be used by some other sites, as we haven't copyrighted the pictures, that is not our concern. Can you find a copy-right tag in the site which you claim? If they tag, I can drag them to court as they don't own it, but can use it, as mine is not a copyright material, which others can't copyright it.


 * I must challenge riggwelter's action of deleting pictures, even taken from wikipedia, which have creative commons licence-2.5 above and released for public domain. I have currently taken pictures from kerala tourism and wikipedia, which have issued re-licensing tag. Rather checking the source, by deletion, this group has once again proved, it has a bunch of those who wishes to keep this article, bare minimum, whether purposeful or not, I don't know.


 * I had contribute lot to wikipedia and i never found that place infested with a bunch of vested people, like here. I started my contributions here, on assumption that its sister concern of wikipedia, but soon found this place has a whole of people, having ulterior motives, with a key focus attitude towards South-Asian countries and regions as well as those in US and Europe. Perhaps tourism is something very competitive industry, but never thought travellers do have similar competitive mentality in promoting their regions, by attacking other regions.


 * I feel, its not fair enough to be in a place, where you don't have recognition and where your contributions are greeted with suspicions. If any member wishes, they can delete the entire article and keep it as a stub. I think, its time for me to pack my bags up and go. Arunvarmaother


 * The only vested interest here is to keep the site in order. Your claims of members attacking your region are frankly ridiculous. Do you think we would devote all this voluntary time to the Kerala article if we did not care about it? My main motivation has been that I can see that the Kerala article could become a very good one. Sadly Arun, you have had an attitude right from the beginning of not taking advice as it is meant, but rather regarding it as an attack on either you or Kerala. Quite the opposite it true. We all want this article to be as good as it can possibly be.
 * Specifically on images:
 * 1. Please list the images which you think have been deleted without proper cause and I will investigate each one myself.
 * 2. Images from http://keralatourism.org are not compatible with Wikivoyage's licence. That website has a very clear all rights reserved notice. It seems that the State of Kerala may have a law which over-rides this, but you said yourself the State of Kerala allows reuse of its images only for non-commercial purposes. Wiktiravel content can be and is re-used commercially. Therefore non-commercial licensed images cannot be used here. I explained that to you earlier on this page.
 * 3. Wikivoyage has a policy on minimal use of images. So, whatever the licensing issues, you had uploaded far too many to the article.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 02:50, 17 March 2010 (EDT)


 * First of all, I welcome Burmesedays' offer to double-check the deletions. They all have a cause for deletion, as stated in the summary field on Shared:. If any of the deletions was a mistake, the images can be restored. As for Arun's request for a copyright tag on the zeenews.com site: well, click on the link, scroll down to the bottom of the page, and, lo and behold: Copyright 2006 © shopping.zeenews.com. All Rights Reserved.... As for the images taken from various blogs: you did not provide the link to the blog itself, just a link to the image. So, it was impossible to check the copyright status, which in itself is a reasonable cause for deletion. We are happy to help you Arun, but you have to do it the Wikivoyage way. (WT-en) Riggwelter 04:40, 17 March 2010 (EDT)

Itineraries
I'm moving these itineraries here. They need to be re-written and should probably be expanded into their own articles.(WT-en) Texugo 10:19, 18 March 2010 (EDT)

See some of the best highlights that Kerala has to offer: experience bustling Kochi (Cochin)and Thiruvananthapuram, relax in the Backwaters, hike in the mountains and enjoy the beaches.
 * The Trail of Travancore

Suggested Itinerary (This is an indicative itinerary, Sequence of the activities may vary and depend on prevailing weather condition and guest preferences)

(Kochi-Munnar-Thekkady-Wagamon-Kumarakom-Kottayam-Alapuzha-Kollam-Thenmala-Thiruvanthapuram-Kochi)

Arrive at Kochi Airport/ Railway station and spend a day in the city. Consider option of going city tour (excluding Fort Cochin, which can toured on while on return) and enjoy shopping experience of Kochi. Take evening rest either in Hotel or visit for a evening walk in Marine Drive or shopping malls. Prepare for an early morning drive to Munnar and en route there are couple of good places worth a visit,if you have time. Spend a day in Munnar and enjoy the scenic beauty. Make a visit to Tea gardens and spend idle time looking at the blue mountains or flora & Fauna. Visit several protected sanctuaries and national parks or make a stroll in the evening bazaars etc. From Munnar a scenic road leads to Thekkady, famous for its Periyar Tiger Reserve and lovely boating experience around the tiger island. Also you can have a Jungle safari in this area and stay in Princely KTDC's Arya Nivas or other Colonial bungalows. While on your return, a short trip to Idukki Dam and Aruvi is interesting. If you wish, make your stay for the night at Wagamon in Kottayam and spend the next morning in the beauty valley. From Wagamon, KK Road will take you to Kottayam from where you can move on to the backwater haven of Kumarakom. You can book a Houseboat for 24 hours and board the boat by evening, which helps to spend the night amidst of Backwater with all facilities. Morning spend the day cruising across the backwaters and watching the sanctuary. End the trip by afternoon and you can proceed to Alapuzha either thro' road or Waterways. It's most ideal to go to Allapuzha for its famed inland waterways and sandy beaches, thro' MC Road and take a return at Changassery that leads to Alapuzha, famous for its scenic beauty, canals and Kuttanad. If you consume brew, take a toddy from any of the Toddy shops on the way, which all are authorized and have wonderful native food from there. The road takes you Alapuzha. Spend a day at Alleppey, either in its backwater cruise or do canoeing at its lagoons or make fun at its golden beaches. The National Highway 47 (NH47) will be your best option to go further south. You can stop at Kollam (cashew nut hub...pick them up for cheap here) en route and its better to keep Paalaruvi, Thenmala (Dam site and good for treks) both near the Tamil Nadu border while NH47 is in the coastal region. During the return trip you can also visit Kourtyalam in neighboring Tamil Nadu, famous for its waterfalls. After Kollam proceed to Thiruvanathapuram. The Padmanabhapuram Temple, Kovalam beach. If time permits proceed to Kanyakumari in Tamil Nadu. Taking a taxi for the entire trip will be the most hassle-free option, though its slightly expensive, but really worth for it. Else a mixture of public transport, taxis, trains and autos are good option to keep your budget secure. You can either terminate your journey at Trivandrum by catching a flight or train. Else the best option is to take a bus or train towards Cochin and terminate from Cochin, after spending a day at Fort Cochin.


 * 10-12 days -Mystic Malabar Circuit

This suggested itinerary covers almost all parts of Malabar and Northern Canara Districts of Karnataka (Kozhikode-Wayanad-Madikeri-Mangalore-Nilaeswaram-Bekal-Kannur-Mahe-Kozhikode)- Additional option-(Ooty-Mysore for extra 3 days) Suggested Itinerary (This is an indicative itinerary, Sequence of the activities may vary and depend on prevailing weather condition and guest preferences)

Arrive at Calicut Airport/ Railway station and stay in a local hotel or city. Enjoy a half-city tour. Next day proceed to Wayanad District thro' travel at NH212. Take a refreshing drive to Vythri (65 kms) or Kalpetta (80 kms) or Sultan Battery(100 kms). Any town in this area, provides equal refreshing option. Relax for rest of the day. After Breakfast on next day and go local sightseeing around Wayanad. Evening visit Tea plantation / Nature Trail. Next day, after Breakfast Leave for One of the Jungle Lodges around forest region. Do a Jungle Safari. Proceed to Coorg for an early morning drive and reach at Madikeri by morning. Check in any local hotel and start a misty Morning Park Safari or an Elephant ride before breakfast. Think of evening Park Safari and Boat Ride or prefer a relaxing evening with a camp-fire. Next day, after breakfast, visit Tibetan Monastery and Dubare Elephant Camp. Make a walk in the Kodagu Bazaar and think of some purchases. End the Coorg tour and say a bye to Mountains. Return to Kerala, by taking a drive to Nilaeswaram. You can think of adding Mangalore before driving towards Nilaeswaram and if you wish spend a city tour there and halt for evening stay there. Else proceed to Kasargod and end the trip at Bekal Beach (70 - 90 kms) by around afternoon. Spend noon at Bekal fort and evening at Bekal beach. Relax and do local sightseeing. You can either return back to Calicut to terminate your trip thro' Calicut Airport or proceed to Mangalore Airport. If returning to Calicut, make a small stopover at Mahe', a former French colony and enclave belonging to Pondicherry State, famous for its French colonial culture and french lifestyle.

Additional 2 nights stay at Calicut (either at Kadavu Ayurvedic Resort or Beaches nearby Calicut (Kappad or Payyambalam in Kannur) also can be considered for relaxation.

You can add additional 3 days (if time and weather permits) at Ooty by taking a small divert from Wayanad towards Ooty direction and return back to Coorg road via Mysore can be added in between Wayanad.

Ayurvedic treatment etc
The following hospital and centres need to be placed in their relevant city article.


 * Kottakkal Ayurvedic Center is the largest Ayurvedic Hospital in South Asia, offering serious medications for various kinds of diseases and aliments. The main hospital is located in Kottakkal in Malapuram district. However it has a new hospital in Thrikkakara in Kochi as well as Out-Patient hospitals in Ernakulam, Kottayam and many other districts
 * Vaidyaratnam Thaikattu Moss Ayurveda is very famous in Thrissur, particularly for their medicines and Arthritis treatments.
 * Kerala Ayurvedics is also a good hospital chain across Kerala mainly limited for general medicine and more into pleasure treatment and spa.
 * Agyastya Ashram in Thripunithara is famous for its Bone-Neurology treatments and only for serious treatments.
 * Government Ayurveda College in Thripunithara and Government Ayurveda Hospital in Trivandrum offers free ayurvedic treatment having serious aliments.
 * Keraleya Ayurveda Samajam- a 150 year old organization started with blessings of Kozhikode Zamorins and Cochin Rajas for promotion and treatment of Ayurveda, is a leading center of Ayurvedic treatments has many centers across India, with a very large hospital in Shoranur in Palakkad.


 * Somatheertham Ayurvedic Resort in Trivandrum
 * Astamudi Ayurvedic treatments in Kollam
 * Kadavu Resort in Kozhikode --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:01, 25 March 2010 (EDT)

Radiation tourism
This has always struck me as a bit odd, so I removed the following text. Radiation is not something you can see, feel or enjoy, and presents nothing but a health risk. I cannot see any reason to recommend that tourists go here just to expose themselves to radiation. A Google search of "radiation tourism" brings up only a similar blurb on the Wikipedia Kerala article, which links to a BBC article showing that locals here have higher than average genetic mutations. The fact that this beach has the highest natural radiation in the world might be worked in to the article somewhere as a curiosity, but I think the text as is needs to go. Here is what I nuked: (pun intended)
 * Kerala is the only place in the world, to offer Natural Radiation as Tourist interest area. The Karunagapally Beach is listed as the World's hottest Spot in Natural Radiation is caused by monazite sands containing highly radioactive thorium, at the Karunagapally beach results in higher radioactive exposure on the locals, though its not a health concern as it has changed their genetic stucture adaptable to such higher radiations. Sites offering radiation exposure experience without much harm are very rare in the world. The sands of Karunagapally is constitute 1/3rd of India's nuclear fuel need. Its estimated that 28% of global thorium deposits are located in this beach of Kerala, making it an interest area for global nuclear scientists and researchers.

(WT-en) Texugo 22:52, 25 March 2010 (EDT)
 * Does this have anything to do with "radiation hormesis"? In general, it is not our place to judge why people might travel; if people do indeed come to Kerala for hormesis or for scientific study, then it deserves a mention, perhaps with a warning.  (WT-en) LtPowers 07:42, 26 March 2010 (EDT)


 * This article is (still) full of so much strange language, "Radiation Tourism" hardly even registered :).--(WT-en) Burmesedays 08:35, 26 March 2010 (EDT)
 * That thought occurred to me too, LtPowers, but as far as I can tell the only mentions of tourism for that purpose anywhere on the net are here and Wikipedia, and written by the same contributor. (WT-en) Texugo 00:42, 27 March 2010 (EDT)

Weddings
I removed this:
 * Recently weddings are happening in Kerala and lot of promotion is happening in creating world-class theme weddings. As the state is a home to almost every major world religion, religious weddings Kerala style are getting very popular. Many couples who are already legally married choose Kerala as the place to renew their vows. Full wedding-organising services are widely available: ceremony arrangements, photography, videography, flowers, musicians, dancers and catering. There are several wedding halls available that are usually attached to luxury hotels, temples, churches etc and the number is growing all the time. There are many professional organisers to handle your wedding in Kerala, and these are easily found through the Internet. Theme weddings are getting intensively popular, offering Great Indian wedding styles with Elephants, colourful marriage functions, decors and styles etc.

This would potentially appeal to a very minuscule fraction of travellers, on a once-in-a-lifetime basis, and I don't find likely the scenario that someone will happen across this article, see this blurb, and then decide to get married somewhere in Kerala because of it.(WT-en) Texugo 22:04, 10 May 2010 (EDT)

Status of this article
I dont know how or why this article was given guide status (?) but it is nowhere near meeting the clear WT criteria for this. See Project:Region_guide_status. The linked sub-regions as well as the 9 cities and 9 other destinations must all be at usable status for a region guide to qualify as a guide article. I have therefore put Kerala back to usable. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 05:08, 15 July 2011 (EDT)

Overlap problem
The text in the "Regions" sections overlaps the top of the "Contents" on my desktop computer, in a Firefox environment. I can't figure out why or how to edit out the problem. If you think you can fix the problem, please help! Thanks! Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:38, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Moved from "Understand/Government"
I thought this paragraph was unnecessarily detailed and encyclopedia-like, but perhaps you might disagree, so it's below, in case you can glean some useful content from it:

Kerala is a state in the Union of India. The state government has a cabinet of ministers headed by the Chief Minister. A Governor appointed by the Government of India has a titular role as head of state. Trivandrum (Thiruvananthapuram) is the state capital and houses the Kerala Secretariat, the legislature house called Niyama Sabha and offices of various ministers and officials. The state is divided into 14 districts which are further divided into Taluks. Each district has a major city as its district headquarters, which houses offices of district administration. Each district administration is headed by a Government official known as District Collector. The Kerala High Court is located at Ernakulam.

Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:32, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Moved from "Respect/Visiting places of worship"
This seems unlikely enough for visiting non-Hindus so as not to bear mention, but if you disagree with me, please copy edit and summarize it for reinsertion:

''Likewise its a ritual to refrain entering into temple, if any close maternal relative dies for a period of 16 days as a token of mourning. Same, in case of birth of any newborn which prohibits maternal relatives refraining from entering the temple for a period of 11 days since the birth of the newborn.''

This just seems unnecessarily detailed, and the location of the temples is not mentioned:

''For example everybody is welcome at Adhi Shankaracharya's temple. At Shabarimala any male that has performed a set of pre-defined rituals is welcome, but females are not. Women between the ages of 10 and 50 are not allowed to enter the temple, since the story attributed to Ayyappa prohibits the entry of the women in the menstrual age group.'' Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:42, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

List of cities
Hi, everyone. The list of cities numbers 10, but according to the 7+2 rule, there should be no more than 9 listed in an article for a state, so which one should be removed?

Here's the list:


 * Thiruvananthapuram (Trivandrum) &mdash; the capital and largest city, famous for its beaches, historical monuments, parks and temples
 * Alappuzha (Alleppey) &mdash; heartland of Kerala Backwaters with natural maze of canals criss-cross the city, leading to it being called the Venice of the East. The biggest boat race in India for the Nehru Trophy happens here every August.


 * Kannur (Cannanore) &mdash; a historical town famous for its strong heritage, martial arts 'Kalaripayattu', temple art 'Theyyam', political movements, forts, folklore, hand looms, beaches coffee growing hills and spices


 * Kochi (Cochin) &mdash; a major port and cosmopolitan city and the largest urban agglomeration with unlimited shopping options, known as the 'Queen of the Arabian sea'


 * Kollam (Quilon) &mdash; a commercial town famous for its cashew & coir industries, surrounded by backwaters and lakes


 * Kottayam &mdash; known for its latex, literacy, and letters, and as a major educational centre


 * Kozhikode (Calicut) &mdash; most prominent city of Malabar area, where Vasco da Gama landed for the first time in India, and one of the world's oldest thriving trade centres. A very clean city known for its friendly inhabitants.


 * Palakkad (Palghat) &mdash; gateway to Kerala by land through the Palghat Pass in Western Ghats; known for its paddy (rice) fields, hills, traditional homes, cuisines and composite culture. Tipu Fort, Malampuzha Gardens, Silent Valley National Park are nearby.


 * Pathanamthitta &mdash; the most literate district in Kerala. Consists of forests, hills and rivers. Beautiful hillstations like Gavi, One of the most crowded pilgrim center Sabarimala Temple etc. make Pathanamthitta one of the most beautiful tourist spots in Kerala. The most wellknown boat race in India- Aranmula boat race take place in Pampa river in Aranmula, a small village in Pathanamthitta.


 * Thrissur (Trichur) &mdash; the cultural capital of Kerala and also famous for jewellery shops and silk sarees. Temple festivals with caparisoned elephants like Thrissur Pooram. Athirappilly falls, Guruvayur Temple are nearby.

I would really rather that this be taken care of before we make status charts for the cities in question, so please participate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:53, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I can tell you which cities shouldn't be removed :P There are some that are very known while I have never heard of the others. Trivandrum being the capital and largest city is in. So is Calicut as the most famous city in Malabar. Kochi is the most famous port city and largest urban agglomeration. Thrissur is the cultural and festival capital. Alleppey is the gateway to the beautiful backwaters. I have heard of Kannur and Kollam though don't know much about them. Kollam is apparently a historical city with connections to Roman trade and Kannur may be the home of Keralan martial arts.
 * That leaves Kottayam, Pathanamthitta and Palakkad. Pathanamthitta appears to be a pilgrimage city, Palakkad's greatest claim to fame is its Palmyra trees and Kottayam is known as a highly literate and educated city. On this basis, I think Kottayam is the weakest as most visitors to India don't come for its educational institutions. Gizza (t)(c) 12:17, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks a lot for going through that process of elimination. I'll wait a day or more to see if anyone else has other ideas before taking action. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:39, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Clearly, no-one objected, so I've deleted Kottayam from the city list. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:01, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Other destinations
Now that the list of "Cities" has been reduced to 9, what do we do with "Other destinations"? This list should not include cities, towns or villages.

Should any of these listed "Other destinations" be moved to "Cities," and if so, what cities should be removed? I'm particularly wondering about Munnar, which has a Usable article with copious listings and a few nice photos. Otherwise, is there any justifiable reason under Wikivoyage policy not to delete them from "Other destinations"?

Kumarakom - from its article: Kumarakom is a tourist village in Kerala

Munnar - hill stations are cities

Nelliampathy - another hill station

Ponmudi - yet another

Wagamon - fourth hill station

If we remove all 5 of these towns from "Other destinations," there will be 6 left, which I suppose is OK, but up to 3 more "Other destinations" could be added, if anyone wants to nominate any.

I plan to move the 1-liner listings for these 5 towns to this talk page soon unless anyone has any other suggestions of what to do. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:38, 8 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I'd say just go for it. Texugo (talk) 10:11, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but should Munnar replace one of the cities on the list? Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:10, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The current cities seems to more or less be decided above. If someone feels Munnar needs to replace something there, it can still be discussed afterward. I have no opinion on that subject, but I don't think there is any reason that the possibility of doing that should hold up the current clean-up process. Texugo (talk) 12:25, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I hear you. Thanks for your input. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:35, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

[unindent]

These listings have been moved here, per discussion above:


 * Kumarakom &mdash; backwater tourism: luxury resorts and house-boat rides near Kottayam
 * Munnar &mdash; unspoilt hill station in tea growing hills and misty mountains
 * Nelliampathy &mdash; hill station at the southern part of Palakkad District.
 * Ponmudi &mdash; hill station at Trivandrum, known for its beautiful scenery.
 * Wagamon &mdash; hill station located in Kottayam-Idukki border of Idukki district.

If you believe any of these cities, such as Munnar, perhaps, should be among the 9 listed in "Cities," rather than one of the cities currently listed, please discuss. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:42, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

The word 'city' is used differently on Wikovoyage to include small place also which are visited by a large number of people. If Kerala can list only nine cities, it is logical to include the nine most relevant cities from a tourist point of view. So I will recomend the following list Thiruvananthapuram Alappuzha Kannur Kochi Kozhikode Thrissur Kalpetta Munnar Thekkady Prof tpms (talk) 06:46, 16 May 2015 (UTC) Thrissur can be deleted to include Sabarimala. Alappuzha includes Kollam also because their backwaters are connected. You take a boat from Alappuzha and go to Kollam or vice verca. No need to list both. Thrissur has no attractions. Only that it is terribly important to Kerala people. Prof tpms (talk) 06:53, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

[Edit conflict]
 * It would be helpful to see this list in the order that will be used in the article (capital first, then alphabetical):


 * Thiruvananthapuram
 * Alappuzha
 * Kalpetta
 * Kannur
 * Kochi
 * Kozhikode
 * Munnar
 * Thekkady
 * Thrissur


 * The effect would be to remove Kollam, Palakkad and Pathanamthitta and add Munnar and Thekkady. I'm strongly inclined to trust your judgment on this, but please give your reasoning for each city you're adding and subtracting from the list. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:01, 16 May 2015 (UTC)


 * If you'd rather include Sabarimala instead of Thrissur, why in that case, too? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:02, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Well, the word Sabarimala is more popular with outsiders even more than the word 'Kerala' because of the very high number of pilgrims coming every year from Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka and Tamil Nadu. I hear that Sabarimala has pushed Mecca to the second place in terms of number of visitors. So Sabarimala is a good candidate, but we have to think that only religiously bended people go there. Women are not allowed except little girls and old grandmothers beyond their expiry dates. Including tourist spots like Sabarimala, Munnar and Thekkady gives good logic to true Wikivoyagers, but ordinary Keralites will object strongly because, for them, Thrissur and Kollam can appear important because of the size of the population and importance of the market. But then, we are editing Wikivoyage and not Wikipedia. Here traveler is the focal point. Pathanamthitta can be safely removed because it is not a big town and the only attractions are the rolling mountains, which in any case, you are going to see on the way to Sabarimala in the same district. For Kollam, I have already explained above that it is near Alappuzha. On the whole, we have to take some bold steps and analayze the reactions when they come. Including Kalpetta is a good choice because all the beautiful place in the entire Wayanad District can be easily accessed from Kalpetta. Prof tpms (talk) 11:17, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

There is nothing to see in Thrissur except one Zoo, one museum and one palace. Prof tpms (talk) 11:21, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

One way to pacify the hostile critics is to start the 'cities' section like this 'Here is a list of the nine most visited places' instead of 'here is a list of the nine biggest cities'. Then Thekkady, Munnar and Sabarimala can easily kick back Thrissur, Palakkad and Kollam. Prof tpms (talk) 11:32, 16 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't know if this point will be relevant, but people who travel for business are travellers, just as tourists are. It's also fine to list a city because it's interesting for reasons other than specific points of interest, or because it's a good base for visiting nearby places of interest. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:42, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Well, that shifts the whole perspective. If you include Business travellers also into our fraternity, Thrissur cannot be deleted in any way. Kollam can certainly go out. Think like this: A traveller to Munnar comes to  Kochi and wastes one whole day in the busy traffic of the city and finally reaches Munnar. Instead of that he can straightaway head for Munnar and stary there itself. So making village trips by basing on cities is a 19th century mode of travelling because hotels were formerly available only in cities. Prof tpms (talk) 11:49, 16 May 2015 (UTC)


 * So what's the list you're proposing now? Could you please post it below as it would look in the article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:41, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

To follow the discussions above, I suggest the following nine to make a city list for Kerala,

Prof tpms (talk) 00:18, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thiruvananthapuram
 * Alappuzha
 * Kalpetta
 * Kannur
 * Kochi
 * Kozhikode
 * Munnar
 * Sabarimala
 * Thekkady


 * It develops that Sabarimala is not a city and that the city would instead be Pathanamthitta. But what about Thrissur, as per our discussion above? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:00, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Thrissur is a big city, but it has to go to give space for Munnar and Thekkady both of which are more important from a tourist point of view. Pathanamthitta is an obscure place and Sabarimala can easily take its place. Sabarimala gets 50 million visitors every year. Prof tpms (talk) 06:53, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Isn't Sabarimala actually part of Pathanamthitta? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:08, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Sabarimala is a town included in the Pathanamthitta district as per the government records. But what is the use? Sabarimala is even more famous than Kerala as a whole. So the district doesn't have the reputation sufficient to be remembered by an average traveler. They search for Sabarimala even not knowing that it is part of Kerala. Remember that Sabarimala is close to Tamil Nadu border and can be mistaken for a Tamil Nadu town. Wikivoyagers are not concerned about Bureaucratic correctness. For example, we have included Mahe in Malabar in Kerala. But Mahe is not in Kerala but in Pondicherry according to the government people.

So Sabarimala can stand on its own and give some address to Pathanamthitta and not vice verca. Prof tpms (talk) 08:31, 17 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I see. I misunderstood the relationship between Sabarimala and Pathanamthitta. So I trust your judgment on which cities are best to list, and I hope you have good 1-line descriptions of the cities that you will be adding. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:50, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I can add one liners. Prof tpms (talk) 11:06, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

User:Ikan Kekek I have added the one liners
 * Thiruvananthapuram (Trivandrum) — Capital of Kerala. Known for beautiful beaches and palaces.


 * Alappuzha (Alleppey) —Backwater paradise with criss crossing rivers and lakes.


 * Kalpetta — capital of Wayanad district, popular tourist destination for wildlife and hill stations.


 * Kannur (Cannanore) — Land of martial arts, Theyyam dances, forts, folklore and silent beaches.


 * Kochi (Cochin) — Historic city known as the 'Queen of the Arabian sea', suffering from traffic blocks. Ancient cities of Fort Kochi and Mattanchery are the main attractions.
 * Kozhikode (Calicut) — Heart of Malabar region with many pretty beaches, waterfalls and trekking possibiliteis. Popular with Arab visitors because of its ethnic markets.


 * Munnar- Endless array of rolling tea estates, Eravikulam National Park.
 * Palakkad (Palghat) — Beautiful paddy fields, hills and the spectacular Malampuzha Gardens.  Silent Valley National Park is nearby.
 * Sabarimala. Hindu pilgrim centre on a mountain that attracts 50 million visitors every year.

Prof tpms (talk) 04:01, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thekkady: Wildlife and boating are the main attractions. Extremely scenic place.


 * Thanks. 1-liner listings are supposed to be a single quasi-sentence, though, which starts with a lowercase letter and ends without a period. Please have a look at the link. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:05, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes IK, I have made it like that
 * Thiruvananthapuram (Trivandrum) — capital of Kerala, for beautiful beaches and palaces


 * Alappuzha (Alleppey) — backwater paradise, criss-crossing rivers and lakes


 * Kalpetta — capital of Wayanad district, popular tourist destination for wildlife and hill stations


 * Kannur (Cannanore) — land of martial arts, Theyyam dances, forts, folklore and silent beaches


 * Kochi (Cochin) — historic city known as the 'Queen of the Arabian Sea', suffering from traffic blocks, ancient cities of Fort Kochi and Mattanchery
 * Kozhikode (Calicut) — heart of the Malabar region, with many pretty beaches, waterfalls and trekking possibilities, popular with Arab visitors because of its ethnic markets


 * Munnar- endless array of rolling tea estates, Eravikulam National Park
 * Palakkad (Palghat) — beautiful paddy fields, hills and the spectacular Malampuzha Gardens,  Silent Valley National Park is nearby
 * Sabarimala — Hindu pilgrim centre on a mountain that attracts 50 million visitors every year

Prof tpms (talk) 04:29, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thekkady — wildlife and boating are the main attractions; extremely scenic place
 * Good. I edited it slightly for capitalization, etc. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:38, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I just merged your list with the preexisting list, but it is 10 cities long. It cannot be more than 9 cities long. Which one of these should be removed? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:16, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Nine cities for Kerala
User:Ikan Kekek has given a list of 10 cities for Kerala and has requested me to remove one of them.


 * Thiruvananthapuram (Trivandrum) — capital of Kerala, for beautiful beaches and palaces


 * Alappuzha (Alleppey) — backwater paradise, criss-crossing rivers and lakes


 * Kalpetta — capital of Wayanad district, popular tourist destination for wildlife and hill stations


 * Kannur (Cannanore) — land of martial arts, Theyyam dances, forts, folklore and silent beaches


 * Kochi (Cochin) — historic city known as the 'Queen of the Arabian Sea', suffering from traffic blocks, ancient cities of Fort Kochi and Mattanchery
 * Kozhikode (Calicut) — heart of the Malabar region, with many pretty beaches, waterfalls and trekking possibilities, popular with Arab visitors because of its ethnic markets


 * Munnar- endless array of rolling tea estates, Eravikulam National Park
 * Palakkad (Palghat) — beautiful paddy fields, hills and the spectacular Malampuzha Gardens,  Silent Valley National Park is nearby
 * Sabarimala — Hindu pilgrim centre on a mountain that attracts 50 million visitors every year


 * Thekkady — wildlife and boating are the main attractions; extremely scenic place

I think Palakkad is the safest to be removed. It is not a big city. Attractions are only Malambuzha gardens and the Silent Valley National park. Prof tpms (talk) 09:10, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

From a tourist point of view Kalpetta is the most eligible candidate in the list because it is the best place to go in Kerala as it is the capital of Wayanad District which is filled with uncountable number of attractions. Every inch of Wayanad District is an attraction because the area is filled with lush green vegetation and undulating landscape. What is more, there are four wildlife sanctuaries near Kalpetta. So I wish to express my solid support for Kalpetta in the list even if it is a small hill town. Prof tpms (talk) 09:16, 19 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I'll go ahead and remove Palakkad now. If anyone objects, we can further discuss whether any cities should be substituted, as long as the list remains at 9. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:26, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

fine, that is the best option. Prof tpms (talk) 09:32, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * So we're replacing some bigger and more important cities such as Kollam, Thrissur, Kottayam, Malappuram, Kanhangad with some small cities such as Munnar and Thekkady? I thought cities section incorporate important and bigger cities whereas its "other destination" section which can incorporate cities or towns that are small but recieved good number of tourists or have major attractions. --Saqib (talk) 15:17, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * "Other destinations" is expressly not for any cities or towns; see Wikivoyage talk:Region article template and the linked discussion at Talk:India. However, if we've made a mistake in what we're listing as the 9 most important cities for travellers to know about, let's discuss that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:11, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Why Thrissur city, is missing in this section. Thrissur pooram is notable festival and Attirapilly Waterfall is also notable worldwide and why it is missing. I have updated with Thrissur, but updation was revised. Jinoytommanjaly (talk) 12:41, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Is Kerala safe to travel?
I thank User:Ikan Kekek for asking me the question whether it is possible to travel in Kerala with a girlfriend. Well, I feel that travelers coming to India should be warned that there is a state in India where conservative attitudes and political violence has crossed all limits. Vigilante groups regularly attack couples for holding hands or walking together in cities like Kozhikode, Vatakara, Kannur, Thalassery and Kasaragod. These attacks are made not by one section, but from all political and religious groups of Kerala. It is a general Keralite sentiment. Kerala is not safe to travel with a girlfriend or even with a wife if you don't look married (couples with children are safe}. Regards, Prof tpms (talk) 00:28, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Since it sounds like that's a statewide situation, it's very important to insert such a warning in the "Stay safe" section of this article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:59, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

OK, I will do it. Travelers today are very bold sort and dangers are not going to affect them in any way. But everyone likes a warning. Prof tpms (talk) 05:35, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

In the meanwhile, I have a link that will make you laugh over the stupidity of moral police in Kerala.

http://www.firstpost.com/living/with-the-police-as-backers-keralas-moral-policing-nightmare-is-far-from-over-1648409.html

Prof tpms (talk) 05:48, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I didn't find that funny at all. But it's safe for people who don't look Indian to visit if they're an unmarried couple? Why did I have the sense that women had higher status in Kerala than in most other Indian states? It doesn't sound like that's the case. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:06, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Nosy and meddling people are not present in other states of India. Outside Kerala, rural people have a notion that the travelers and the city elite are superior and beyond their judgment sphere. So you are treated with great respect even if you come with a girlfriend in revealing clothes. But in Kerala, since everyone is half-educated, they have a tendency to interfere and question lifestyle beyond their capability to understand. My neighbor is the president of the local Rotary club and recently the club was visited by two inspectors from Rotary International, USA. The club president invited the couple to his house, but his wife refused to give them coffee because their surnames did not match. Being an educated woman, she knew what is a surname and what it stood for. Outside Kerala, women are less privileged and whoever the husband brings as guests are given coffee. So please understand, getting educated is different from getting educated half the way.

Regards, Prof tpms (talk) 07:20, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * In the US, it's extremely common, nowadays, for a woman to keep her maiden name when she gets married. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:45, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

That is very convenient. Here they have to go on changing their surnames after each divorce and they use their father's name in the interval between marriages. It is as if a woman has no identity except with a man above her. The Indian philosospher Manu, author of Manu Smrithi, is well read even in the west because Manu Smrithi is available in English. Manu says, "A woman has to be protected by her father in childhood, by her husband in youth, and by her son in old age, because a woman deserves no freedom". Prof tpms (talk) 09:28, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Length of Kerala page
This Kerala page is too long. I have shortened it a bit. But I strongly feel that it has to be edited to half of the present length. Prof tpms (talk) 12:45, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * NO. I don't think the page needs to be shortened. You removed some useful paragraphs from each and every section which I'm going to revert. Have you ever used tradional guide books? If yes, then you must know they are quite detailed which makes them informative. --Saqib (talk) 14:50, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think the article is "too long" either. Besides, it is the information in the article that makes it useful, don't you agree? If there is still something that ought to be removed from the article, then it should preferably be moved to some other article (e.g. to a subdistrict) rather than outright deleted. ϒpsilon (talk) 15:06, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it is too long, but I definitely don't think it should be shortened by 50%.


 * I wrote this on India Expedition:


 * This article contains a lot of good content and is very promising. We should aim to make it into a good Guide-level article and then nominate it for Destination of the Month. But it does need work. The "Cities" list does not use 1-liner listings, is 1 city too long (10 cities), and is unalphabetized . "Other destinations" number 11 and include hill stations, which would fall under the general category of cities and probably shouldn't be listed here. The "Understand" section is fascinating and has a lot of good content, but the sub-sections of "Culture" may need more copy editing. The "Talk" section may be overly detailed. "Get in" has some footnote-style external links that need to be fixed. "Get around" may be a bit too detailed, too (the list of the main intercity trains, for example, should probably be removed). "See" and "Do" seem too long and have bulletted listings, which they shouldn't at this level. "Buy" looks good, excepting a bit of copy editing. The "Eat" section has explanations of the names of dishes in italics in parentheses, which is an excellent practice we might do well to use in other articles. It has great content but does need some copy editing. "Drink" also has excellent content and formatting. "Sleep" is very helpful, but could benefit from some editing for brevity; ditto for the "Stay safe/Emergency assistance" section, including the "Medical Emergency" subsection, and the "Stay healthy/Medical care" section, which also requires more copy editing. Tldr version: Very good article but too long.


 * Some of the above description may need updating, though, so if you see anything that's no longer true, please feel free to edit the "Kerala" subsection of India Expedition.


 * Prof tpms, I would strongly urge you to seek consensus before deleting anything substantive in any article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:03, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Tout Arunvarmaother
User:Saqib, User:Ikan Kekek Please undo your revert of my edits on the Kerala page. I have reduced the size of Kerala page because most of the content in Kerala page are promotional stuff given by touts in Kerala. A lot of encyclopedic details have crept in. Your Kind attention is invited to the long edit war between the user Arunvarmaother on one side and the following editors in 2010:
 * User:(WT-en) Burmesedays
 * User:(WT-en) Nrms
 * User:LtPowers
 * User:Texugo

Kindly refer to the following three topics in this talk page: Regards, Prof tpms (talk) 23:49, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Large amount of detail copied here 2010
 * Disagreement with Burmesedays 2010
 * Reduction in content 2010
 * I don't see any promotional and encyclopediac material which you deleted. I can agree with IK that the article need copyediting as well some trimming but it doesn't need outright deletion. Can you specifically refer to me text which you think is encyclopaedic or promotional? --Saqib (talk) 09:14, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Dear User:Saqib Sahib, you are discouraging the editing work from my part. It is not easy and it is time consuming. I don't see you motivation. Simply because somebody has dumped an ocean of information on Kerala, we don't have to keep it. Brevity is the soul of wit. So we have to make it brief and useful to the traveler. What is extremely long will not be read by the busy traveler. Prof tpms (talk) 09:18, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The point is, you should be specific in indicating what you think should be cut. I gave some specifics in my remarks above; what are yours? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:29, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I've no intention to discourage you. From day first I'm appreciating your contributions, but since you've removed useful material in the past thus I'm specifically watching your edits because we don't have much patrollers here for Indian articles except IK so I deem it very impotant to patrol your edits as you're still a newbie. I don't want to see quality of Indian articles being degraded thus I'm not in favour of having useful material removed from them. And I think you have been told before that we're not writing here guides just for busy travellers so please stop making things brief. I've realised you're a fan of brief listings and brief descriptions but I don't think this would be acceptable here. If you think its time consuming for you to look specifically text which is promotional and encyclopedian then please don't take the pain to outright delete the material. Lets discuss the content rather than making personal remarks at me. --Saqib (talk) 09:45, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Dear User:Saqib, Please understand that I don't want to delete anything important. I was only trying to shorten unnecessary details or repetitions. Please also note that I am making no efforts to blame you and all that. I was only requesting you to encourage my work.I can understand that you were only trying to improve my contribution as a Wikovoyager. In fact, I need your continued advice and guidance. With regards, Prof tpms (talk) 11:26, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Kerala page is too long
Dear User:Ikan Kekek, The Kerala page contains a lot of lines which are repetitions or the obvious. The Get Around, See, Do, Eat, Buy and Sleep sections all require a 50% editing. Since you are not for 50%, i will recommend a 30% editing. If you just look at the editing done by me, you will see the desirable changes. (Please undo the revert). Prof tpms (talk) 11:33, 27 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I disagree. In my opinion, you've removed way too much background and history. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:02, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Have a look at the religion, dance and music sections to begin with. Many of the details are relevant only to a Kerala reader. Prof tpms (talk) 23:45, 27 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I think your changes in "Get around" might be improvements, as might your changes in the subsections of "Religious attractions" (but I demur on completely eliminating the introduction to that section). Your changes to "Moral police" and addition of a "Maoist attacks" section are welcome. I would also welcome your updating the figures for "Budget", "Mid-range" and "Plurge" in "Sleep", but not eliminating the remarks on what you can expect in those categories, as you previous did.


 * Most or all of the rest of your deletions did harm to the article, in my opinion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:29, 28 May 2015 (UTC)


 * In that case, please undo the revert at least in the sections in which you agree with me. Prof tpms (talk) 05:15, 28 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I'd rather wait a little to see what other folks such as Saqib think. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:18, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Regarding Get around section, I will prefer keep the thing as it is both in "By train" and "by car" sub-sections. It is helpful to have names of main trains. From "by bus" section, it is fine to have long list of types of buses removed but it would be helpful to have them in one paragraph mentioning few types which are widely available or widely used. "By taxi" section rather than removing, could be better merged with "By car" section. I don't think if its a good idea to have "By rickshaw" sub-sections in such a regional guide so its fine to eliminate it.
 * Now moving to "Religious attractions" section; it was mentioned in the intro of that section that "Kerala is famous for its pilgrimage options." so its important to have detail why and which so I'm not in favour of having paragraphs outright removed. Sub-sections such as Hindu, Christian could be eliminated and material could be merged and slightly trimmed. Reiterate again that very slightly. Content addition is welcome so yes "Maoist attacks" looks fine. In "Sleep" section, yes I'm not in favour of removing remarks. See Karachi.
 * As IK said, all of the rest of your deletions did harm to the article, in my opinion too. --Saqib (talk) 05:49, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you both for the constructive suggestions. Prof tpms (talk) 05:56, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Ethnic Restaurants
In Kerala, there is a passion for 'ethnic food' or nadan food in Malayalam, by which they mean a return to 50 year old style of eating on plantain leaves. Sometimes the spices are ground in the old way instead of using the packed material available in the supermarkets. I think the main difference is the presence of a village cook in place of a mechanical urban chef. Prof tpms (talk) 01:22, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Regions of Kerala
The current wikivoyage page on Kerala gives too many regions which is very confusing. Traditionally, there are only three regions in Keralaː 1. Malabar 2. Kochi 3. Tranvancore Prof tpms 26 October, 2015
 * There are way too many destination articles in the Tranvancore regions to combine them into one. We have to subdivide it somehow. Powers (talk) 19:22, 26 October 2015 (UTC)