Talk:Kawarthas

Split out Peterborough info
Noticed that a lot of info on the Kawarthas page related to the city of Peterborough. I think both should have separate articles so I've copied the Peterborough information to a new article for the city and deleted it from the Kawarthas page. I hope I haven't accidentally erased anything... if I have, apologies in advance. (WT-en) Shaund 02:12, 27 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Bobcaygeon might be another good candidate to split out as a local article, as some of the sections (like "Sleep") are entirely local listings which belong at city/destination level. This region is a bit sparse in that it only has one city and a few redlinks - not sure if it can be fixed to include 7±2 destinations? K7L (talk) 15:12, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * It seems a bit premature to me. I agree that the information here is sparse. No point in having that info spread over a bunch of micro articles instead. I would wait until there is more in the article. I would doubt that Fenelon Falls would ever have enough information to warrant an article of its own, for example, unless someone decides to take the time to write up the Bargain Shop and Texas Burger. I added the Bobcaygeon entries because I had the info and there was almost nothing before. Ground Zero (talk) 18:47, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I plan on creating a Bobcaygeon article when I have some free time (incorporating the info on this page plus additional listings). The general idea I have for the Kawarthas is there would be four articles: the existing Peterborough article, Lindsay (and southern Kawartha Lakes), a combined Bobcaygeon and Fenelon Falls article, and a northern Ptbo County article (covering Petroglyphs, Lakefield, Burleigh Falls and Buckhorn). Haliburton Highlands is treated as both a region and bottom level destination right now, so I was also thinking of combining it with the Kawarthas and renaming the region The Kawarthas and Haliburton, or something like that. That would bring it up to five guides. But this is all long term stuff so I'm happy to leave listings on the region page for now. -Shaundd (talk) 02:03, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe it would be better to keep it simple by breaking it up by county: Peterborough, Kawartha Lakes (city), and Haliburton. Ground Zero (talk) 02:34, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Or maybe keep the Kawartha article as a regional article for CoKL + Peterborough County, with City of Peterborough and Bobcaygeon as bottom level destinations. I'm not sure. Ground Zero (talk) 02:46, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm not a fan of the counties. They're simple, but having grown up in the vicinity, I don't think they reflect the travel destinations well. For example, the lakes span the two counties, Peterborough (the city) is different than the lakes/cottage country that makes up the northern part of the county, the CoKL is a forced amalgamation of a county and its constituent towns and villages and I'm not sure it has more name power than its main centers (like Bobcaygeon and Lindsay), nor does it include all of the lakes. Looking at a map again, a variation of the breakdown I suggested above could be:
 * Peterborough - Gateway to the Kawarthas and only city in the region. The Lift Lock, Canoe Museum and cruises on the Trent-Severn Waterway.
 * Lindsay and Fenelon Falls - Lindsay is the second-largest town in the region and service center at the junction of Hwys 7&35. A few motels, restaurants and shops, plus a few low key attractions/things to do. Extending to include Fenelon Falls and the western Kawartha Lakes follows Hwy 35 and adds a few more things to see/do. It's unlikely ever to be a large article, but it would meet wiaa.
 * Bobcaygeon, Buckhorn and Stoney Lake - The villages and resorts on and around the eastern Kawartha Lakes, including Bobcaygeon, Buckhorn, Burleigh Falls and Petroglyphs PP. Fishing, boating, a few attractions and the Trent-Severn Waterway.
 * Haliburton Highlands - The vacation/cottage area to the north-west of the Kawartha Lakes.
 * This breakdown isn't as simple as strictly following the county lines, but I think it more represents the way people would travel around the region. A potential area of confusion is the colloquial "Kawartha Lakes" versus the "City of Kawartha Lakes". As I mentioned above, the city of KL was a county/municipal amalgamation in the 90s, whereas the concept of "the Kawartha Lakes" is much older and encompasses a broader area (and not all of the "city"). Any guide we write will need to cover that off so travellers not familiar with the area understand that the CoKL does not equal the lakes themselves. -Shaundd (talk) 06:05, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thinking about this a bit more, it may be simpler to combine the Lindsay and Bobcaygeon articles I mentioned above into one "Kawartha Lakes" guide for now to gather content. Once there's sufficient content, then we can worry about the best way to divide it. So, in summary, I'm suggesting:
 * move Haliburton Highlands under the Kawarthas region, and
 * create a new Kawartha Lakes article to capture the City of Kawartha Lakes and northern Peterborough County (i.e., Bobcaygeon, Lindsay, Fenelon Falls, Buckhorn, Lakefield, etc.).
 * That will leave three articles in the Kawarthas region for now, with the prospect of splitting the Kawartha Lakes guide should it gather enough content. -Shaundd (talk) 06:38, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Haliburton Highlands used to be a region article, even though it's more suited as a bottom-level destination: population 4500 and no individual-village articles under it. I'd changed it from 'outlineregion' to 'outlinecity' but had neglected to check whether central Ontario was still the appropriate parent region. Moving this destination to be a "city" under the Kawarthas "region" is reasonable.
 * Kawarthas is a region article, and as such shouldn't have individual listings for venues of purely-local import. I see quite a few listings for individual Bobcaygeon venues on this page now, so it (or some wider rural area that includes it, such as Kawartha Lakes cottage country) should be created. It doesn't matter what it's called, and there's no need to align the boundaries onto municipal lines, but it is a valid destination which should exist in some form at bottom-level. K7L (talk) 16:06, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Im happy to defer to Shaundd's local knowledge on this. My experience is more limited to the Bobcaygeon area, and I've been creating the problem in this article by adding what I know. I'd be happy to see a split, and would work to flesh out a Bob article or a Bob+area article. Ground Zero (talk) 17:07, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I have added a bunch of listings so that the planned articles will be able to stand on their own. Now there is a stronger argument for splitting. Ground Zero (talk) 13:07, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for adding the listings, Ground Zero. I've got some listings noted but not fleshed out on one my sandbox pages so I think between the two, we've got enough content. Looking at that, I'd prefer to have three articles (1) Lindsay and Fenelon Falls to cover the Hwy 35 corridor and Kirkfield, (2) Bobcaygeon to cover the middle (it seems to have enough to stand on its own), and (3) Lakefield, Buckhorn and Stoney Lake to cover the Hwy 28 corridor in the east. Thoughts? I should have some time over the next couple of weeks to help work on it. -Shaundd (talk) 05:29, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I've started with Bobcaygeon. Ground Zero (talk) 21:29, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Cool. I'm nearly ready to move the Buckhorn and area article to the mainspace, but I'm undecided about what to call the guide. I'm finding "Buckhorn and the eastern Kawarthas" is easier to deal with than "Lakefield, Buckhorn and Stoney Lake", but "eastern Kawarthas" isn't a commonly used name (Buckhorn and East Kawartha was the name of the Chamber of Commerce for a number of years, but it's little used otherwise). If you have any thoughts, let me know, otherwise I'll pick a name and plunge forward with it. -Shaundd (talk) 05:51, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd go with "Lakefield, Buckhorn and Stoney Lake" and create redirects from "Lakefield", "Buckhorn" and "Stoney Lake". I doubt anyone will search for "eastern Kawarthas". Ground Zero (talk) 11:24, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've finally moved the article into the mainspace. I'm not going to have time to progress it further in the near future so wanted to get it out where people can see it and improve it. -Shaundd (talk) 05:25, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Time to split
I've never really like having Lindsay and Fenelon Falls in the same article because they are so far apart. I've been adding listings with the aim of splitting the article. Any thoughts? Ground Zero (talk) 00:26, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
 * If you think there's enough content for separate articles I say do it. Cheers -Shaundd (talk) 03:37, 6 September 2019 (UTC)