Talk:Karakoram Highway

Warning box
We have a box saying there is a problem but it may be fixed by August 2010. Anyone know the current state? Did it get fixed?

We should either remove or update that box, but I do not know which. (WT-en) Pashley 06:16, 4 June 2011 (EDT)


 * Bump! Anyone have recent info? (WT-en) Pashley 23:44, 10 February 2012 (EST)


 * I do not actually know the status, but it seems time to take the box out anyway. (WT-en) Pashley 23:24, 22 April 2012 (EDT)


 * I have just read on the news about a massive landslide that stranded about 500 people and 100 vehicles []. Should it be mentioned? 200.252.135.74 13:52, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The landslide happened near Kashgar. Let it don't affect the whole article. It already mentioned in the article landslides do occur during this time of year so no travelling across travelling is possible. The borders are closed anyways these days. The warning box should instead go to articles of towns along the route that falls inside Chinese boundry and near Kashgar. --Saqib (talk) 14:11, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Hotels
The article currently has a "sleep" section with some hotel listings. Those should be moved to destination articles and deleted here. The whole section should go. (WT-en) Pashley 23:44, 10 February 2012 (EST)


 * I moved the obvious ones, but lack time to sort out the others. (WT-en) Pashley 23:53, 10 February 2012 (EST)
 * Pashley, lets lose the WT attribution. I realised most of the content was written by you before move and most of the other content added pre-migration was listings under "Sleep" section which has been deleted already. --Saqib (talk) 19:07, 19 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Great idea! --118.93nzp (talk) 11:15, 20 November 2013 (UTC)


 * If it were clearly 100% my writing, then I'd be the sole copyright holder & could do anything I pleased with it, including putting a copy here without attribution. However, while I know most of the pre-move content was my writing, I'm not sure it all was. I therefore do not think we can "lose" the attribution while remaining within the license terms. Pashley (talk) 14:35, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, when you get some spare time, I want you to give it a look and you'll find that almost 100% content, if not exactly 100%, was actually added by you and the other added is no longer here. Btw, incase you're not aware but we had deleted many outline articles even though there were some content in them per Wikivoyage_talk:Deletion_policy. --Saqib (talk) 14:46, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Images
This image was recently removed with the edit comment of "what is the purpose of this image? there's plenty of jingle trucks in pakistan" ?

To make the article beautiful and informative?

Although each article is part of the world wide web and typically hyperlinked (both internally to other WMF pages and externally), I think we used to have a kind of unwritten rule that the print version is important and each destination page should be able to largely stand alone as a self sufficient article.

If that's right then, although it's indeed true that "there's plenty of jingle trucks in pakistan", the reader might not necessarily have looked at either our Pakistan or China articles before or after reading this article.

Personally I think the removed image gave the reader a good idea of the road width and environs - after all it gives a clear image that this is not a highway in the US meaning of the word... --118.93nzp (talk) 18:49, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
 * No doubt this road is one of the most spectacular roads in the world. Please feel free to re-add the image deleted and I want you to talk a look at this as well so you can find few more interesting images to be add in the article which will really gives "the reader a good idea of the road width and environs." --Saqib (talk) 19:07, 20 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I have travelled this road as far as the control post before the Chinese frontier (many years ago). However, since I believe you are resident in Pakistan and have added much good material here, I'd much prefer it if you added the image back, Saqib. I'm most reluctant to be seen to edit war and would seek to persuade you by the power of my arguments instead... Thanks for your quick response! --118.93nzp (talk) 19:15, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅. --Saqib (talk) 19:26, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Saqib. I've changed the caption to what it is here (some readers might not understand "jingle truck") and increased the image size (for all readers that did not have a thumbnail image preference size of less than 150px set, by using the standard factor of preference size image syntax). --118.93nzp (talk) 19:40, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Removing "redlinked" towns
I was a bit puzzled by this edit which removed the internal linking syntax around many towns that do not yet have their own article.

Am I wrong in thinking that our current policy is to leave the il syntax intact so that they show red and act as a spur to article creation?

After all, most of these now-non-linked towns have commercial accommodation and are well defined and well known landmarks along the KKH in Pakistan... --118.93nzp (talk) 04:28, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I could be wrong, nzp, but I don't think there's a consistent policy on red-linking. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, it's just that back in the deep mists of time gone by I seem to remember having a lot of my anonymous IP edits reverted for precisely that reason stated in edit summaries... --118.93nzp (talk) 07:04, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * It is a somewhat unclear policy, however when an article has 10 red links to towns it looks messy. If there are just a couple of red links then I guess it isn't really an issue, however people who create lots of links without any corresponding content are making the guide more difficult to understand and thereby hindering the traveler's understanding. Just my opinion since I don't have any authority around this. Andrewssi2 (talk) 07:15, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Wakhan Corridor
User:Pashley. I beleieve you added the information about Wakhan Corridor but I don't think its relevant here given that its not possible to travel through Wakhan Corridor. Do you mind if I remove the information. Second, I'm hoping to work on this itinerary in order to bring it up to possibly guide status so suggestions would be appreciated what information should be covered in "GO" section other than practical "getting in" information. I believe sub-sections titled place names would make sense. --Saqib (talk) 14:20, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Not guilty, your honour! I did write most of the Wakhan Corridor article and I do not recall if I put a link to it here, though I did in Marco Polo since he may have used that route and in Bactria since it connects there. The info box, though, is not my work & I'd have no objection to removing it. At most, the corridor might be mentioned in this article as a connecting route but I do not think even that is necessary. I'm quite content to let you decide on that if you are revising this article.


 * I started this article years ago & others have improved it considerably since. I'd love to see it brought up to guide and nominated as an OtBP or FTT feature but I cannot contribute much; more-or-less everything I know about the area is already covered. Pashley (talk) 15:05, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I moved the information to infobox but we may incorporate some of the lines in history section later as that section is not available right now. Glad you started this. No doubt KKH is one of the gem of Pakistan and I'll try my best to bring it upto guide status sometime soon. I know you won't be able to work on it since you been to region years ago and now things have changed considerably so lack of current knowledge but you can always help with "UNDERSTAND" section especially history. --Saqib (talk) 15:12, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Travellers accounts
While researching about KKH, I found some interesting accounts and tales of western travellers who recently made trip to KKH so I thought of listing them here, perhaps at some point I may incorporate some tips into this article. --Saqib (talk) 11:09, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Cycling of KKH by a British couple
 * An interesting overview of KKH by an American who was also detained by intelligence in Bahawalpur. Interesting enough!
 * Driving the world's most insane highway by a Canadian author.
 * How to driver KKH by a British female traveller.
 * A dark year in the Karakoram by a British.

Guide status
As I earlier said, I can work to bring this guide upto guide status but what I have learned from my nomination of World Heritage Sites Tours Sri Lanka for feature article is that while itineraries don't mention eating/accomodation listings as those information are covered in towns/cities along the itinerary route. But in this case of KHH, there're literary hundred of small and big towns along the 1,300km long highway and we don't have guide articles on any of them except a couple, which too are just outline. Given that, I don't think it would be possible to bring this upto guide status until we have atleast usable-status articles of important major towns. Am I right?

At the same time, I found Route 66, a previoisly featured itinerary, is very similar case. It doesn't mention any eating/accomodation listings but at the same time the articles of town/cities along the route are not in good shape as well. For instance: between Springfield to St. Louis, there're seven places and none of them are of usable level. So my question is whether I could possibly bring this itinerary upto guide status without having to work on places along the route as we did to Route 66 or no? --Saqib (talk) 13:18, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Is there a rule that all points on an itinerary have to be usable? I didn't know it and Itinerary status doesn't mention it. Also, if a town does not have a place to sleep it should usually not have an article in the first place. On the other hand, travelers reading this guide would of course very much appreciate that the articles of major cities along the road are as informative as possible.
 * For reference you might be interested in Natchez Trace Parkway and its FTT nomination. This is an itinerary that is ready or almost ready for FTT.
 * Ps. Karakoram Highway and the area around seems like an interesting and scenic place — I really look forward to having it featured. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:01, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I am not aware if any rule exists but I can agree that it makes sense to have articles atleast at usable status of major towns along the route. KKH is quite historical and popular both among local and foreign tourists so definately everyone would like to explore major towns along the route. Yes, Natchez Trace Parkway is a similar case but since that is drive itinerary, which make thigns dfferent. In our KKH itinerary, we will have to mention each and every mode of travel available. From cycling (many sources says KKH is one of the best and adventures cycling route in the world) to public buses to private vehicles. BTW this is not a typical itinerary article. So upon completion this won't be a FTT but a OfBP since KKH is a mjor attraction. Lonely Planet Pakistan guide book title was "Pakistan and Karakoram Highway" rather than "Pakistan" and they have extensively covered the KKH in much detail. --Saqib (talk) 19:04, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Modernizing
Yesterday was a major news for Pakistan. China launched a milti-billion dollar investment in Pakistan (China–Pakistan Economic Corridor) to modernize and improve the infrastructure of Pakistan. The project in Pakistan is an extention to proposed New Silk Road. So Karakoram Highway is going under a massive revamp. A new railway link and a expressway coming in few years. I wonder if it is okay to mention about modernizing of Karakoram Highway under GET IN section, most probaby using infobox template? I've done the same at Silk Road. --Saqib (talk) 12:31, 22 April 2015 (UTC)