Talk:Jerusalem/Haredi/Archive

Vote for Deletion
I have nominated this particular article for deletion on the following grounds:


 * Not an officially recognised district of the city, but rather one drawn by the original contributor, presumably on religious and cultural grounds. Recommend deletion and transfer of content into appropriate official districts. Much of the content belongs within a relevant "Understand" section. (WT-en) Paul James Cowie 16:58, 23 October 2006 (EDT)

vfd discussion
Archived from the Project:Votes for deletion page:


 * Not an officially recognised district of the city, but rather one drawn by the original contributor, presumably on religious and cultural grounds. Recommend deletion and transfer of content into appropriate official districts. Much of the content belongs within a relevant "Understand" section. (WT-en) Paul James Cowie 16:56, 23 October 2006 (EDT)
 * It doesn't need to be officially recognised to be useful to travellers. I don't know Jerusalem. Is this more useful than official names? (WT-en) Pashley 19:23, 23 October 2006 (EDT)
 * The name "Mea Shearim" is overwhelmingly more common for the area.  That said, it's not really a destination in the Wikivoyage sense, because the Haredi (the more common spelling of "Chareidi") locals are not keen at all on tourists traipsing around and there are no places to stay. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:40, 23 October 2006 (EDT)
 * How about redirecting to Jerusalem, and then this conversation can continue on Talk:Jerusalem/Chareidi. -- (WT-en) Ryan 16:07, 4 November 2006 (EST)
 * Sounds good. This appears to be more of a question where to redirect than whether to delete or not... (WT-en) Maj 12:47, 5 November 2006 (EST)

Un-redirection
The only appropriate reaction here is 'WTF'. Listen up, guys. This is not an officially recognized district of the city, you say. Yeah, sure. It does however have 1/3 of the inhabitants of the city. One third of Jerusalem is Arab, one third secular Jewish Israeli, one third ultra-Orthodox (Chareidi) Jewish. The article on 'West Jerusalem' talks only about secular West Jerusalem. Chareidi Jerusalem is a totally different story. It is a totally different world. It is as far apart as Tokyo from Reykjavik.

If you delete this, be consequent and delete 'West Jerusalem' and 'East Jerusalem' as well. These are not 'officially recognized' city parts either.

Regarding Jpatokal's 'Mea Shearim' remark: Meah Shearim is just one neighborhood in this huge city part. It happens to be the most famous and oldest part of the Chareidi city. The Israeli media and nearly all tourist booklets, for example, portray it as if only Meah Shearim is a Chareidi (ultra-Orthodox) area. That is simply not true. It was either written by people who were intentionally lying or by people who were never here. Also, Jpatokal, in case you never noticed: many Arabs are not quite happy with tourists either (tourists get stabbed, robbed, raped and beaten up many more times in the Arab city than in the Chareidi city). And I know many Chareidi Jews who do not have anything against tourists. The objective of this section is to tell people how to behave, where to go, what to see, in such a way that they will not anger us locals. I happen to be one of these locals, and am closely affiliated with some of the most senior rabbinical leadership figures of Meah Shearim.

I am quite disgusted to come back here after a few months and find this article deleted. Apparently a city of 250.000 people is not notable enough for Wikivoyage. And yes, this is a city of its own. The article will continue to grow. --(WT-en) Daniel575 19:35, 21 December 2006 (EST)


 * It might be helpful if you (and others who know Jerusalem well) could propose a division of the city into districts on Talk:Jerusalem, which will make it clearer what the breakdown is and where this district fits. Please see Project:Geographical hierarchy for a discussion of what guides divisions on Wikivoyage. -- (WT-en) Ryan 19:43, 21 December 2006 (EST)
 * I guess this part is less known than the general terms 'West Jerusalem' and 'East Jerusalem'. Therefore I placed it after them. If you would want a geographical location, Northwest would most accurately describe it. However, in reality, it goes all the way from the border of the northern part of Arab/East Jerusalem to the exit/entrance of the city on the western side, and even further than that. You are talking about 1/3 of the city here, about more than 250.000 people. It's not one neighborhood. Also, there are a few secular neighborhoods interspersed (some of Ramot, Givah Tzarfatit, Har HaTzofim, Pisgat Ze'ev, part of Neveh Yaakov). However, there is virtually no contact whatsoever between the people living there and those in the Chareidi areas. Thus, I oppose characterizing this part of the city by its geographical location. Characterizing it by its religious / cultural characteristics is much more practical. It is not different from describing one part of a big American city as 'Chinatown', for example. --(WT-en) Daniel575 19:56, 21 December 2006 (EST)


 * Hmm. I'm actually starting to lean towards Daniel575's view, although I'd still prefer the more conventional spelling "Haredi". It really is a city in a city. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:41, 21 December 2006 (EST)