Talk:Isola Polvese

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Need for a Isola Polvese article
(WT-en) Shep asked the following question on my talk page - (WT-en) Huttite 19:23, 28 December 2009 (EST)
 * Hi again. What is the point of providing a wikilink to a blank page? Seems to me that anyone following that link would just get pissed off with Wikivoyage. The Isola Polvese page provides less info than is available on the Lake Trasimeno page. (WT-en) Shep 11:08, 27 December 2009 (EST)

My reply:
 * Isola Polvese was an orphaned page that should have been linked into the geographical hierarchy. The Lake Trasimeno article seems the most logical place to link from. I think people would be more annoyed by the fact we had an article about Isola Polvese that nobody had thought to provide a link to it from Lake Trasimeno; I certainly was. Since anyone can edit a page, the lack of information is not a serious problem at the moment. If you think the Isola Polvese article is inadequate, please plunge forward and improve it.
 * To explain further. I am currently placing orphaned pages into the geographical hierarchy. I feel that linking to existing outline articles from their region pages is more important than making destination articles perfect before linking them. At least that way readers know these articles exist and can see each article in its regional context. These are works in progress and are liable to change.
 * In the case of Isola Polvese, I was faced with the problem of finding the best place to link this outline article. The Lake Trasimeno article is the relevant region article that Isola Polvese was identified as an Other destination - so it was the best article to link from.
 * Since you have questioned if that was the right thing to do, I took a closer look at the Lake Trasimeno article. I can see that it does not follow the Manual of style as the long descriptions for each destination which need to be shortened to one line listings and it also has sleep listings for several destinations. Over time I would expect those listings to migrate to their destination articles, once they are written, as should also happen with the information about Isola Polvese in the Lake Trasimeno article.
 * Please note that region guides and other destination guides, such as city and park guides, perform different functions in Wikivoyage's geographical hierarchy. A region guide provides an overview of the destinations in the region, while the city and park destination guides provide the details. This is so that the region guide is not too cluttered with minute details. One implication is that region guides do not usually have a Sleep section, as Sleep listings appear only once each in the respective end destinations. Since being able to sleep there is a minimum criteria for an article, the logical consequence is that the sleep section is redundant in the region guide. - (WT-en) Huttite 05:45, 28 December 2009 (EST)

You further pleaded this subject on my talk page as follows:
 * There has been a lengthy and unresolved discussion on this topic at Project:Bodies of water. Wikivoyagers seem to be split between people like you and Texugo who seem to attach a lot of importance to structure and people like me and Peter Fitzgerald who believe that there can be no hard and fast rules and that rules are made to be broken where appropriate to the local situation. The rules cannot possibly take into account all possible scenarios. Isola Polvese is a little island in the middle of a fairly small lake. In Lake Trasimeno I think I have said all that really needs to be said about it in Wikivoyage. My recommendation would be to delete the page on Isola Polvese. It just isn't needed.(WT-en) Shep 10:51, 28 December 2009 (EST)

and I have responded.
 * You raise several issues in the above plea. I think the issues need to be teased out and dealt with separately.
 * Firstly, I do not think that there would be consensus to delete the Isola Polvese article, for the following reasons.


 * 1) It is probably a valid destination article.
 * 2) Even if it is not a valid destination, it is certainly an attraction of Lake Trasimeno.
 * 3) As a minimum it can be merged with and redirected to Lake Trasimeno.
 * It would also be most helpful if the specific discussion about the need for an article like Isola Polvese was started and continued on Talk:Isola Polvese.
 * Second, I have no problem with bodies of water names being used for regions surrounding, in, or even under, those bodies of water. The problem arises where the article is about the water, not the land.
 * Third, some structure and rules are helpful and we have a Project:Manual of style that most people seem to agree is a good idea to follow. I believe I am following those guidelines, not rules. If you think I am wrong for doing that then please gain consensus for new or different Project:Community policies that meet your needs, and I will try and follow them too!
 * Lastly, it would be a good idea to plunge forward and devote your efforts to improving the Lake Trasimeno region and do something with the Isola Polvese before somebody else does. - (WT-en) Huttite 19:04, 28 December 2009 (EST)

I have copied the full discussion here but some of the discussion should take place on Talk:Lake Trasimeno or other places. Please feel free to raise the various issues that arise on the most appropriate page. - (WT-en) Huttite 19:23, 28 December 2009 (EST)