Talk:Houston

Article name
Shouldn't the article name be Houston? Even if there are more than one Houston, I'd think Houston, Texas would fall into the same category of Paris as the "most well-known". Unless anyone disagrees I'd like to move the article back. -- (WT-en) Wrh2 23:40, 24 Oct 2005 (EDT)

That is a great idea. Houston is massive and the other "Houstons" are quite small in comparison.

Links removed from main page.
''The following links were removed from the main page because they do not follow the external link guidelines. However they may be useful reading when adding to the article itself. -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 20:10, 13 Nov 2005 (EST)''


 * Houston Travel Guide - http://www.houstontravelguide.com
 * Downtown Houston Guide - http://www.downtownhouston.com

More links added and removed from the main page listed below.... -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 12:35, 12 Feb 2006 (EST)
 * Houston Chronicle - Houston's major daily newspaper.
 * Houston Press - Houston's weekly free alternative newspaper, with info about local events in the arts and other happenings.
 * Hater Magazine - Bush Hates Black People, info about Houtson Urban music and culture
 * Downtown Houston
 * off the kuff
 * Lopez@Large

Nit Picking
NoDo? Does anybody actually call it that? That's the warehouse district, right? I don't frequent that area too much, but I have never heard that term used by anybody. And I don't think that anybody actually calls the (Asian) Bellaire "New Chinatown." I think Two Rows deserves a mention in the local beers section. How about Shiner, though ? Is that close enough?


 * go for it!. (WT-en) Majnoona 14:37, 24 April 2006 (EDT)


 * Oh the warehouse district. I've lived in Houston all my live and never heard "nodo" outside of WT.  And shiner is a texas institution. (WT-en) Jordanmills 15:26, 24 April 2006 (EDT)


 * yeah I've never heard the term "NoHo" either, just "warehouse district." Also, the term "Bellaire Chinatown" seems to be much more common than "New Chinatown."


 * Never heard NoHo or NoDo, lived in Houston all my life. Also, I thought Two Rows was in Dallas.  I do know for a fact Shiner is its own town in Texas - if I'm not mistaken it's closer to San Antonio.  And three "downtowns?"  You'll never anyone refer to these areas as anything but Downtown, Uptown (a.k.a. Galleria), and "The Medical Center."


 * I renamed it. I've never heard of "nodo", saw little contrary input.  Also rewriting the "three downtowns" stuff. (WT-en) Jordanmills 00:13, 9 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Never heard of "NoHo" or "NoDo" either. Unless it's colloquially known locally and by everyone who know the Houston area like the back of the hand better to leave that term out otherwise it's going to be confusing to read. (WT-en) Anyone150 21:11, 30 June 2019 (PDT)

Bus charter
I removed the link for the bus charter service; I think that's outside the range of information for the typical travel guide. --(WT-en) Evan 17:32, 4 December 2006 (EST)


 * It looks like spam spewed all over a bunch of pages. (WT-en) Jordanmills 14:58, 5 December 2006 (EST)


 * That was also spewed in the "Bus Travel in the United States" article too. Don't know to delete from over there or leave it. Anyone150 21:05, 30 June 2019 (EST)

Drink section
So I added a couple more bars. We're getting a good long list here, maybe more than should be in a section. But they all seem to lend their own personality to the city, and I can't think of any that should be cut. Should any, and if so, which? (WT-en) Jordanmills 22:08, 8 April 2007 (EDT)


 * We tend to like the number 9 around here, so that's about the # of listings we aim for in each section... looks like this one's still fine :)  – (WT-en) cacahuate   talk 02:52, 9 April 2007 (EDT)


 * I thought we went for 7 +/- 2? I guess I have seven there now, leaving room for more.  (WT-en) Jordanmills 11:04, 9 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Why does this city still not have the huge city template? It already has the districts listed there. I think a city this big deserves way more than 9 places in its Drink section. (WT-en) Texugo 04:29, 9 April 2007 (EDT)


 * 'Cause I only have so much time, and it would take some thought to break it apart. At any rate, Houston doesn't translate as well to districts as most other cities.  There's very little "community feel" to anything smaller than the city as a whole.  For example, ALL the museums are in the museum district, while there is very little shopping there.  I'm not sure how well it would translate. (WT-en) Jordanmills 11:04, 9 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Obviously nothing is set in stone... what I meant was that we would wait for the 7 + 2 before actually needing to delete anything... and even then I think it's open to discussion, since a place like Houston that maybe doesn't need to be split into districts will still be big enough to possibly warrant more than 9 drink or eat listings... the idea with Huge Cities is that when broken into disticts you've got 9 for each section in each district... and even 9 for each subcategory (budget, mid-range, splurge)... basically though, I think if something is good and the traveler should know about it, then we should put it there regardless of a pesky # rule :)  – (WT-en) cacahuate   talk 13:15, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

Districtification
I'm going ahead and giving a shot at districtifying the city. As (WT-en) Jordanmills pointed out last year, not every district may have a full load of stuff for every section, but the hotel listings and the see and do sections are already getting too much for a single page, and there are certainly a whole lot more restaurants that could be recommended if we break it up. For now, I went ahead with the districts more or less as they were laid out in the District section before, but I want to suggest that Katy and The Woodlands get their own separate articles, and that we combine Clear Lake with Friendswood to make a single article. Also I have flipflopped a lot on what to call the Med Center/Rice/Museum District article and would appreciate some input from locals. The Houston Chronicle seems to vaguely refer to it as "Inside the Loop" but I don't know exactly what areas that includes or if it is actually common parlance there. Please comment on my work so far. (WT-en) Texugo 02:09, 29 February 2008 (EST)
 * I'm starting to think that this was a bad idea. I   mean look, it's empty (districts)and there is like NO pictures!!!!  No one really seeems to be doing anything with it anywasy, its' like an abandoned project!  this is sad!  if your going to do this, at least know that you need to FUFILL it !!!!  Keeep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 14:11, 3 November 2008 (EST).
 * I do not really like your patronizing attitude. My contributions were obviously in good faith, arising out of a real need-- Yes some of the districts have little to no information, but several of them have quite a bit (e.g. Downtown, Med Center, Uptown, Montrose, River Oaks), and the main article still contains a lot of listings that will go toward filling up the rather empty ones. The article as it stood before was extremely long beyond the point of needing districtification. I stopped work on it because I wanted comments and possibly help from someone who lives there. I don't live there, which means I don't have any pictures (which is not top-priority anyway), and locating which district a listing goes in is time-consuming google-maps work. You are welcome to contribute to that work, and I could accept even a little nudge to see if I have time for it, but you shouldn't criticize me for not having done it all myself. Wiki works by contributing what you can when you can, not by staking out a claim and assuming responsibility for finishing an article. And I find outright laughable any suggestion that a city of this size doesn't need districtification. (WT-en) Texugo 00:31, 4 November 2008 (EST)
 * Hey, 'Tex, I'm sorry if I made you feel bad. I know it's a lot of work and you don't even liivve there!  I could try a little bit...with helping move stuff, etc.  Anyways, don't expect much because I am mostly doin' western Canadian cities, as well I will soon be starting up Austin...I mean that one's in bad shape too, no offense, but there is like no info in the districts.  My point is just that if you aren't or you know no one else will complete/work on it lots, to me, there is little-to-no point in districting it.  You need people to work on it.  To me, if you are the one districting it, unless you specifically know someone else will, you should be responsible for putting in the work.  I am sorry if that does make you feel bad.  I will try to help some.  I see you do try, and it's hard when you live in Japan, ;).  Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee talk 12:23, 4 November 2008 (EST).
 * (WT-en) ee, it doesn't make me feel bad at all, because your attitude is completely and utterly wrong. It does piss me off a little though. Taking an article a few steps towards being a star does not in any way oblige the contributor to go all the way-- the only responsibility that comes along with making a contribution is of ensuring that the addition is accurate and legal. Neither is it necessary to assemble a team of contributors for work on a destination before contributing-- that is the spirit of Plunge forward. For you to go around telling long-time heavy contributors that they are leaving jobs unfinished, that they haven't contributed enough, well, that is just plain offensive. So contribute here, or don't. But please try to be a little more sensitive and appreciate the work that has been done, rather than chastise people for not doing enough. (WT-en) Texugo 23:52, 4 November 2008 (EST)
 * ok you know uhm im sorry. yur pounts are verrrry valid.  keepsmiling,(WT-en) ee talk 00:33, 5 November 2008 (EST)
 * Apology accepted. (WT-en) Texugo 00:37, 5 November 2008 (EST)
 * Oy, I really feel bad. I am sorry!  Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee talk 10:22, 5 November 2008 (EST).

I say jolly good job on districtifying. I'm a local and I'd like to offer my help on this article if I can (as soon as I'm done with Big Bend National Park and perhaps a few other small ones). First, there's a few things I'd like to throw out there: Hopefully more Houstonites will show up to help out. :) (WT-en) Army of me 18:32, 17 May 2009 (EDT)
 * As for the Med Center/Rice/Museum District conundrum, I've mostly heard Museum District but I think the others apply probably just as equally (I've also seen it called "South Main" in some travel books but I don't recall I've heard anyone local using that term), so that's a really tough call... Ideally more input from other locals is called for but IMHO it's fine as-is for now.
 * I agree Katy and the Woodlands probably need their own articles; as I'm sure they'll just keep continuing to grow and they do seem distinct (and distant) from Houston. I also wonder if some of the growing, southern regions (Pearland/Sugarland/etc) might eventually need an article, although I don't think there is anything currently there for travelers except perhaps a few well regarded restaurants (and I seem to recall there is an observatory somewhere down there although I could be wrong).
 * Then there's the north... Aside from the Woodlands, we may want to consider the northern area encompassing Humble, Kingwood, Spring, Tomball, etc. I know in many ways it's off the beaten track, but there's a few reasons for it's own section, one of which being it would be a convenient place to stick hotel options near the airport. Also, it's home to the Houston Arboretum & Nature Center and Jesse Jones Park, two great places for anyone who enjoys hiking, nature, and all that jazz. I'm sure there's more there I'm overlooking as well.
 * Then there's east Houston. In my opinion, this would be a great catch-all for destinations that are scattered around a bit like Space Center Houston, the San Jacinto Monument, the Orange Show, the Port of Houston boat tour, and the Armand Bayou Nature Center (which is not currently listed). There's also restaurants like the original Ninfa's on Navigation and we could maybe mention facts like Pasadena/Gilley's was the setting for Urban Cowboy (maybe? I'm not sure if people care or not). Kemah could also be included but I noticed it already has its own article which is pretty filled so I guess that's okay.
 * Hey, sounds like you have some good ideas. Feel free to plunge forward and implement them. I'll try to keep an eye on this and give you feedback. (WT-en) Texugo 01:00, 18 May 2009 (EDT)

Districtification (v2)
I may start on this soon. Possibly Midtown, too, unless we can actually find things to add to it. In fact, here's what I'm thinking:


 * Downtown - Keep (of course)
 * Med Center and Rice - Important of course, but as mentioned before, I think everyone agrees that a better name can be had (not that I have a better one at the moment). Also, let's be sure to mention this is where the Museum District is.
 * Uptown or The Galleria Area - keep (of course)


 * Warehouse District - I think this should just be integrated into Downtown since it's basically just a tiny subset and there's not a huge amount of things to put in the article (if much at all).
 * Montrose - A very important section, but would anyone be opposed to me renaming Montrose to the more inclusive "Neartown"? Of course, Montrose would still redirect to there and probably be mentioned in the article.
 * River Oaks - I'm pondering also if there is enough here for it ever to ever really justify a separate article. It's a famous residential area among Houstonians, but not exactly a tourist area. I'm not sure where to integrate though (if that were to occur)...
 * Midtown - I'm also pondering the same thing here. Is there enough for a separate article? Maybe it could just also be integrated into Downtown for now.
 * The Heights - Another famous residential area for Houstonians, but not sure if there's anything to see or do here...
 * Southwest Houston - Definitely does not need it's own article yet IMHO; these are just residential neighborhoods...
 * New Chinatown - Again, chock full of shopping and restaurants, but I don't know if there's anything to see/do or anywhere to sleep.

And as I proposed earlier, I'd like to add some catch-all categories for the rest of Houston (divided into thirds):


 * North Houston - the weird V-shape formed by everything roughly above 290 to the West, down to everything above the north loop of 610, and back up to 59 N in the East (and then following the contour of Beltway 8, so as to include Humble, Kingwood, etc.) - not including the Woodlands
 * West Houston - everything below 290 and sweeping counter-clockwise to 288 (of course, unless the area is already included in one of the articles above), but outside of 610 - not including Katy nor possibly Sugarland/Missouri City
 * East Houston - everything from 59-N sweeping down to 288 - not including Kemah nor possibly Baytown (is there much to do here?) or Clearlake (even though this would put the Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center outside of Houston, and there is possibly not much else to do here?)

(Yep, there's no South Houston because Houston is bottom-heavy as far as attractions go and so is captured in West/East Houston). These areas are huge, I realize, but they only have a few attractions for travelers so I think it's justified and better than not mentioning them at all. Any opinions would be helpful. (WT-en) Army of me 23:35, 8 November 2009 (EST)
 * I also forgot to mention we should include the new (and excellent) clubs and restaurants of Washington Avenue, but I'm not sure where it would fit in. It's too small to be it's own article, but could maybe be included either in the Heights or Neartown/Montrose (even though it's technically neither; it's too new).

There IS in fact an offical South Houston and an official East Houston. Perhaps you should call the articles EASTERN HOUSTON and SOUTHERN HOUSTON instead. It gets ridiculous because there are things on the "East Houston" page that are clearly in Southeast Houston. Hobby Airport is a great example. There's no SOUTHEAST HOUSTON page, and it's a huge area. There are boundaries for it on Google Maps. Google maps is your friend. USE IT. There are plenty of labels and boundary markers on Google Maps nowadays. Whats so bad about overlap?! Florida is both in the Southern United States and the Eastern United States. Wikipedia doesn't seem to have an issue, so why do you? --TakeTheTicket (talk) 01:26, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_United_States

The idea of combining Clear Lake and Friendswood into one page shows how unfamiliar you are with those areas. It is a STUPID idea for more than a few reasons. Friendswood is an official city with it's own schools and Police force, it shouldn't be combined with other places anymore than Houston should be. SECOND REASON: Clear Lake CITY is the second largest master planned community behind Kingwood and definitely deserves its own recognition. The Clear Lake AREA includes the communities of Clear Lake City, Clear Lake Shores, El Lago, Kemah, League City, Nassau Bay, Seabrook, Taylor Lake Village, and Webster. --TakeTheTicket (talk) 01:26, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

This pattern of ignorance is getting dysfunctional. I'm sorry if certain parts of Houston are BORING TO YOU or lack attractions, but that doesn't mean that we ignore them or combine them with more exciting areas. Each section of Houston deserves it's own recognition for a variety of reasons. Refer to Google Maps or official city websites for boundary information. If a part of Houston has NEARBY attractions or restaurants, then why don't we label them as such? Why can't the page for Friendswood say that there are things to do NEARBY in Clear Lake and then only list restaurants/attractions that are near the Clear Lake/Friendswood border? --TakeTheTicket (talk) 01:26, 23 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Whew, relax there, friend. If your worry is that the names are confusing—that the chosen district names for large areas of the city conflict with the names of specific neighborhoods, then we can just rename the articles. We shouldn't have an article for every neighborhood, though, because we want each individual page to be writable as a complete travel guide. That is, there should be meaningful content for each of the standard sections. Breaking the city into tons of neighborhood articles would make the guide harder to use for travelers. Take a look at Chicago, or Washington, D.C., for example. There are tons of neighborhoods, but they have been amalgamated into understandable chunks that make for good travel articles. --Peter Talk 01:34, 23 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Er, yes, exactly what Peter said. The whole reason I shared my ideas in the first place is because 1) this seemed like an article that needed some help and where not a lot of work was being done, and 2) I don't know everything (obviously... and neither does anyone else) and was hoping to get input and help from others, people who know the areas further out. That's the reason some of my comments have question marks.


 * In this community (like with Wikipedia), you should assume our actions here are made in good faith - we're just trying to create the best travel guide we can. If you feel like something written here is an attack or insult on some place, please don't assume it's intentional. There's room for healthy debate, of course, but no need for name calling. And unlike Wikipedia, this place is not meant to be an exhaustive list of places and facts, and we don't necessarily write from a neutral point of view. Like Peter mentions (much more succinctly than me), this is a travel guide and every article needs to be geared towards helping travelers, nothing else. So we actually DO need to keep in mind which attractions and destinations are of interest to tourists. Take my hometown, for instance - Humble (Atascocita, to be exact). It's a pleasant place, with some decent places to eat and drink, and it is in fact a separate town from Houston... but there's just not enough there for travelers to justify Humble having it's own page - it's rightly integrated into the larger "North Houston" article.


 * Addressing some of your specific points -
 * I think you may have misread, I didn't suggest a "South Houston" page at all, just "East Houston". If no one objects to my idea (nothing is set in stone, of course), there would only be "North", "West", and "East" Houston, each covering roughly 1/3 of the city (see my original comments for specifics). As you know, Houston development has overwhelmingly been on a southwest-to-northwest axis (with some bleeding out to the west and north the last several decades), which is why I did it that way.
 * I think your idea of renaming the article "Eastern Houston" might be a good one. I was actually aware there are small, specific neighborhoods historically called "East" and "South" Houston (there's even a separate "North" Houston), but from my experience the vast majority of Houstonians - even news outlets - often use those terms to refer to larger, generic areas of the city, without any confusion. Also, we'd have to consider renaming the other sections to "Western Houston" and "Northern Houston". We could do it, they just seem a bit awkward imho. I am fully aware of Google Maps; it is very helpful but certainly not the be-all, end-all when it comes to this site.
 * Not sure what you are suggesting with your "overlap" comments. In general, we don't list duplicate attractions in two different districts within the same city (if that's what you mean). This is a wiki, but our guidelines are different from Wikipedia's.
 * I didn't mention Friendswood anywhere in my comments. For the record, I also didn't write any of the existing articles for Friendswood or other cities in that area, nor have I had a chance to look at them yet. They are probably due for an overhaul.
 * I think you may have misread, my comment was suggesting to not include Kemah, Baytown, or Clear Lake in any other articles (my comment was worded pretty awkwardly, so I'll take the blame there). Whether there is enough meaningful content in each of them to merit a separate article - I don't know, which is why I was asking. If not, they can be integrated into a larger district article (with an appropriate title); there's nothing wrong with that either.
 * Regarding your "NEARBY" suggestions - as Peter mentioned, it's not helpful to travelers to have a needlessly large amount of district articles. I'm not making a comment on Friendswood or Clear Lake per se; I haven't done enough research yet. My limited understanding of Friendswood is that it's mostly a residential area, but I could be entirely wrong. Usually "nearby" attractions are only mentioned in articles when those attractions don't fit in any other page (which doesn't sound like the case here).
 * Feel free to make changes in good faith if it'll make for a better travel article. There's always work still to be done...76.89.142.124 08:12, 5 February 2013 (UTC) (Army of me)

Alternative banner for this article?
I created a new alternative banner for this article (I initially created it first and foremost so that it would be used at the top of the parallel article in the Hebrew edition of Wikivoyage, yet I later decided to also suggest that the English Wikivoyage community would consider using it here as well). So, which banner do you prefer having at the top of this article? ויקיג&#39;אנקי (talk) 04:55, 11 August 2015 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, the current banner is flat out better in almost every respect (including better composition and clearer image), so I'd vote to keep it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:06, 11 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't be so strong in my opinion, but in general I see nothing better in the proposed banner. PrinceGloria (talk) 14:17, 11 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Proposed Syced (talk) 08:12, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Map
Can we have a map that shows districts and borders of the city and also the light rail lines? Preferably dynamic? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:14, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

EaDo?
Do y'all think it might be time for EaDo to be added as a "district"? Lots going on there these days... Mrkstvns (talk) 21:56, 31 August 2022 (UTC)


 * I lack the requisite knowledge to have an opinion about this, but you can help by stating where the boundaries would be and about how many overall listings (see, do buy, eat, drink, sleep) you'd expect there to be in the new article and articles for any districts that would be reduced in size when this one gets its own article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:25, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I propose that the area defined as EaDo for Wikivoyage be larger than what most locals call "EaDo". I think it makes sense for us to consider it as extending all the way eastward to the Loop, and then everything outside the Loop to be considered "East Houston" (as previously suggested by others).
 * The boundaries I propose for EaDo are:
 * East of I-69/US-59
 * South of I-10
 * North of I-45
 * West of I-610
 * The area includes BBVA Stadium (now Shell Stadium), the Ship Channel, the traditional Tex-Mex restaurants along Navigation (original Ninfas, el Tiempo Cantina, etc.), a number of craft breweries (8th Wonder, Equal Parts, True Anomaly), and a ton of new bars within a mile of the 69/59 overpass. I don't think there are any hotels in EaDo, but I'm sure they'll eventually come.
 * Thoughts? Mrkstvns (talk) 16:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)