Talk:Hong Kong/Archive 2003-2012

Water
The water in Hong Kong is just fine to drink unboiled.

I was born in Hong Kong and lived there for many years, particularly from 1981 to 2002. I always drank water from the tap, particularly at home and in hotels etc. Therefore the comment that water is not safe to drink should be changed. I have lived in Hong Kong for 6 years and agree with the above post. The tapwater is as safe as anywhere, and I've had no problems.


 * You sure you guys are not glowing in the dark? The water's shipped in from mainland China. --(WT-en) Jiang 23:00, 10 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Whaaat? I brushed my teeth with the water and ended up peeing out my butt for a week. What I wasn't barfing up was coming out explosively from the other end. Maybe if you grow up and develop an immunity to the bugs in the water you are okay, but the water is NOT safe.

Here is the offical answer from Water Supplies Department

I live in Hong Kong all my life -- everybody boils their water. Yes probably it is actually safe to drink without, but it has become a cultural habit. Boiled water is what we drink.

I state categorically that the water in HK stinks! Literally! I've been to other large cities in New Zealand & Australia, & none have tap water that smells as bad as the tap water in HK! (I live in a city overseas where the water supply comes from underground, & the water is untreated. I've spent the past few months living temporarily in HK, however.)

What's missing from this discussion is that people come from all over the world and have different laws regarding immunizations and different germs. The proper thing to do would be to include some links to Depts of health or travel for various countries, the US Center for Disease Control, the World Health Organization, etc.


 * No, it wouldn't. The relevant question is "will you get sick if you drink the water?", and the answer appears to be "no".  This is enough. (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:33, 1 Apr 2005 (EST)


 * I'll second that - whilst it's true most people do seem to boil water, I've found this utterly unnecessary - I've drunk it by the glass straight from that tap and had no problems. By contrast so much as a sip of Mainland water is guaranteed to make you sick. That said, if staying in some of the dodgier, older high rises it might be worth exercising some caution - some buildings have decaying pipes which make perfectly good water passing through them become undrinkable. I've not encountered this often, but I have occasionally. I suspect this explains people's different experiences of the water. (The Chungking Mansions on Nathan Road would be a prime of example of somewhere where I'd thoroughly consider boiling the water). - Sam


 * I'm an American Citizen who has been living in HK for a year. I started drinking unboiled tap water in April and I haven't gotten sick yet. I can taste a trace of chlorine, but that's it. I heartily endorse drinking tap water without boiling it. Also, I would hypothesize that we are all drinking tap water every time we go to McDonalds. (WT-en) NPT 21:39, 5 Jul 2010 (HKT)

Cost of rental cars
Also, in the "By Car" section, it says that the cost to rent is $600. I assume that's in HK$, but that is not indicated. Can anyone confirm? --(WT-en) Iflipti 09:21, 1 Apr 2005 (EST)


 * Yes, all prices are in HK$. (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:33, 1 Apr 2005 (EST)

Currency usage
000 I think the usage of the $ confused me as a reader. While I think the article is one of the best I have ever read, it was hard to spot the difference between HK$ and US$. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 85.147.65.74 (talk • contribs)
 * Would it be clearer to use a HKD600 style of notation? --W. Franke-mailtalk 11:50, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

So Much For The CIA
Both the map and quick-facts on area come from the CIA factbook import. I'm no intelligence analyst, but even I can see that the proportion of sea to land area within the territory boundary on the map is no way consistent with that described in the quickfacts. Anybody got any better info? -- (WT-en) Chris j wood 09:32, 11 Aug 2004 (EDT)

The official Hong Kong Map is found here. 4 Nov 2004 (HKT)

Corruption in Hong Kong
Are Hong Kong cops so bad that it warrants a red-box warning?

According to Transparency International: http://ww1.transparency.org/cpi/2005/2005.10.18.cpi.en.html

Hong Kong ranks 15, and is less corrupt than most EU countries.


 * I agree, a warningbox is unwarranted. HK police and civil servants are very professional and well respected. Implying that they routinely shakedown tourists for cigarettes or coins is ridiculous.  I've removed the warningbox and put in its place a much tamer statement regarding ID checks of "illegal" mainlanders. (WT-en) SONORAMA 11:12, 20 April 2007 (EDT)


 * However, some police officers are unreliable. I used to be checked my ID by a police officer, he ask me to give him a $20 banknote or send me to the police station for further examination. --219.77.142.136 21:38, 26 May 2007 (EDT)


 * As a native Hong Kong guy, I strongly believe that Hong Kong police officers won't ask for a bribe of only HK$20. --218.188.195.2 01:15, 30 June 2007 (EDT)


 * Don't give a hand to Hong Kong cops, Basic Law claims Hong Kongers have no human right at all, so Hong Kong cops can do whatever they want, I saw three policemen assaulted a beggar just beside Langham Place --58.153.0.152 07:07, 2 July 2007 (EDT)


 * The above is hard to believe. No doubt some cops are asses but creating a stereotype that some people might believe is just stupid.


 * Corruption in the Hong Kong police used to be fairly bad pre-handover however it largely involved police being bribed to turn a blind eye to certain activities; the situation has, ironically enough, greatly improved since the handover to China and all existing laws established by the British are still enforced (so any claim of "no human rights" should be directed toward the lovely officials of the British government). On the other hard it's much harder to find pirated software shops nowadays unless you know exactly where to look, so maybe they're doing too good a job if one of your visiting plans is to stock up on thousands of US dollars worth of software for less than the cost of a latte (exaggeration).


 * Begging in Hong Kong is illegal so the cops have a right to remove them. But "assaulting" them seems a bit excessive.

Education institutions in HK
Perhaps one of the best universities in HK, the University of Hong Kong, is unintentionally left out?

Buses
No, HK buses are not very easy to use if you're a tourist. With the deep gravelly voice of experience, I double-dare anybody who disagrees to find the bus to Ngong Ping from Tung Cheng if you can't read Chinese. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:34, 11 Mar 2005 (EST)

Google "new lantao bus schedule" returns: http://www.newlantaobus.com/farelist.htm#route%2023


 * It is difficult no doubt about it. Even if you understand chinese, there are so many bus stops everywhere. and different types of busses too.

And Router 23 is the one. There is an eminent bus terminate in Tung Cheng town center, right next to the MTR station, with clear signals in both English and Chinese, and there's english speaking staffs in service, I don't think it's difficult. (WT-en) rickehor 18:23, 9 Aug 2005 (EST)

Eatdrinkhongkong
Re: eatdrinkhongkong, see Wikivoyage_talk:External_links. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:40, 29 Mar 2005 (EST)

Still getting a feel for where things should go, is it appropriate to link to Mei Wah somewhere on this page? I found that being able to read just that much Chinese (and, yes, it's much handier to be able to read than to speak, because even in Guangdong and the areas around Hong Kong there are many subdialects of "Cantonese", and it's hard for those of us who grew up on European languages to hear all of the sounds) got me what I actually wanted to eat in several restaurants, and got into some interesting discussions when people saw me looking through my notes. Don't know if it should go here or some sort of "overview of China" page, or if it's even a resource in-line with what people want as the culture of this wiki. (WT-en) Danlyke 16:50, 16 Nov 2005 (EST)

Why undistrict?
Why was Hong Kong/Kowloon moved into Kowloon, etc? If this was just to make the breadcrumb navigation prettier, then that would be better fixed by Wiki magic on Evan's side and he's already working on it... (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:42, 11 Dec 2005 (EST)
 * That wasn't the main reason - I was finding it a real pain to work with - for example all internal wikilinks had to be written [ [ Hong Kong/Kowloon ] ] instead of just [ [ Kowloon ] ]. Also comparing how regions work elsewhere for example   counties in England are not done like [ [ England/County ] ] but just [ [ County ] ].  I am guessing that is a judgment call on whether you see HK as a city, or a region.  Personally I see it as a region (it contains distinct towns and villages).

Party/Clubs
Hi, I intend to travel to Hong Kong in September/October and in all areas the Drink section is rather thin compared to cities like Berlin and missed Clubs total. Does somebody know around and add some tipps? Thanks, (WT-en) Jan 07:20, 4 July 2006 (EDT)

Lang kwai fung is the party place. from exotic shisha bars to hot dog stands with jelo shots.

british nationals
hello, recently i was looking into possibly working in hongkong, and as i am a british national, i wanted to know their policy on british subjects. now, i know that as a british national, i could work in britain if i have a british passport, and this applies to british colonys. does anyone know if, as a former british colony, hongkong still supports this policy? it's not mentioned on the "work" section.

No - British nationals are now treated the same as all others as far as Employment Visas in Hong Kong are concerned. The only relic is that as a tourist a British Citizen gets a 6 month visa rather than the 3 months that most other western passports get.(WT-en) Christep 06:08, 19 May 2007 (EDT)

How to make a link from here to wikipedia ... please help
Have tried several ways and none of them works


 * WikiPedia:Hong Kong
 * However, in a nutshell, links to Wikipedia are not allowed (see Project:External links).
 * The only exception is where there's a Wikipedia article that covers the same place as the Wikivoyage article, in which case it can be linked to thus: Hong Kong (same as the previous example but without the first ":") - the link will not appear within the Wikivoyage article, but will be listed in the "other sites" section in the left hand column. ~ 203.147.0.48 02:30, 9 September 2007 (EDT)

YMCA
in the "sleep" section, the YMCA is listed as starting from HK$90. Howaver, on their website, there is nothing under 700. Did I get something wrong? Was that in US$?--82.151.66.218 10:59, 24 December 2007 (EST)


 * That has to be a typo -- HK$90 is barely enough for a bowl of noodles these days, and AFAIK the YMCA Salisbury doesn't even have dorms. (WT-en) Jpatokal 16:45, 24 December 2007 (EST)

Suzie Wong
So there's a low-key edit war brewing over whether wikipedia:The World of Suzie Wong should be included in recommended reading. I don't have particularly strong opinions, but it certainly is a famous book so shouldn't it be mentioned, even if just to point out any inaccuracies? (WT-en) Jpatokal 13:05, 10 February 2008 (EST)


 * This book is degrading not only for HK women but Asian women in general. For this reason alone, it doesn't deserve to be mentioned here. It's also just soft porn fiction by a non-HK writer about the sex industry in the third world with a love theme thrown in and is not really about Hong Kong. I'm for removing it from the list and adding more appropriate ones. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Wikiwo (talk • contribs)


 * The book, first published 50 years ago, is certainly not soft porn. Fiction, set in Hong Kong, it is.  Love the book or hate it, it has been the literary introduction to HK for a couple of generations of foreigners.  This is beginning to change now that it's been out of print in the USA for several years; fewer young people have heard of it.  But mention "Suzie Wong" to any expat over the age of, say 50, and you have instant name recognition.  It's also still sold in HK bookstores.  I've read the book and think it's pretty good and it certainly doesn't "degrade" anyone, although anything dealing with prostitution is going to be controversial.  Now, this is Wikivoyage, not a literary criticism board, so if you can think of another novel worthy of inclusion here -- plunge forward and list it. (WT-en) SONORAMA 06:26, 22 February 2008 (EST)

I did not put The World of Suzie Wong onto the reading list. Nevertheless, I really do not think anybody has the right to decide what is good reading material. It is for sale in Hong Kong and those who don't like it can decide not to buy or read it. I say the book stays and censorship goes. (WT-en) herngong

Also, a broader point - I think many tourists and newcomers to HK are looking for some holiday reading that says something about the place they find themselves in. Some want fiction and others may choose politics I hope we can recommend a list of HK themed books to appeal to a wide range of interests.(WT-en) herngong

MTR Maps
we need to upload a copy of the new MTR map - the MTR has been merged with the KCR.

It is also fair to say that we do need a few more maps of every kind - can anybody advise on how to do this without breaking copyright law?


 * Take a look at Project:How to draw a map and OpenStreetMap]. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:11, 1 March 2008 (EST)

Churchs In Hong Kong?
The article omits information about religion,temples and churchs in Hong Kong. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Sponestveen (talk • contribs)


 * Our philosophy is: if you see something lacking in an article, plunge forward and fix it yourself! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:07, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

Shopping
More information on discounts and haggling (24-04-09) Last time I visited Hongkong it became clear most shops didn't show prices. You always had to ask and it was obvious to me they gave me higher prices than it would normally cost. And it didn't happen once or only at tsim sha tsui, but also computer arcades, tourist places and markets. My cantonese friend who lives in Europe, but visits his country of birth regularly suggests me you should always haggle, always. It is said that once asked for the prices sellers will always increase a price by 10-20% When there are more people who agree with mee, please add it to the page. - Dennis


 * No need to wait, please plunge forward and add your corrections/updates yourself! If someone disagrees, they will undo your contribution, and you can then discuss. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:07, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

Eat section needs reorganising
The current Eat section is very messy. Information are in wrong places, some over-descriptive, many irrelevant. For example, "Barbecue" is inside "Where to eat", Only Dim Sum has list of restaurant suggestions and none of them has price info.

I suggest to group by food/restaurant type and each has its own short description and list of restaurants. Perhaps something like the following - Dim Sum - Seafood - Cha Chaan Teng - Roast - International/Fusion - Vegetarian - Snacks/Cafe

Some major changes to the Hong Kong pages
I would like to propose some major changes to rationalise the sub-pages that link to the Hong Kong main page. Some pages have not developed and given the very few things of interest in these parts of HK I doubt that there is enough going on to justify them. There is also considerable duplication and I would like to propose that we give Hong Kong a bit of a spring clean.

My thoughts are that we have the Hong Kong main page linking to:-

1.Central and Western (Hong Kong Island). 2.Wan Chai and Causeway Bay. (This would include Eastern District). 3.Southern Coast of Hong Kong Island. 4.Kowloon. 5.New Territories. 6.Lantau Island. (merged with the Discovery Bay page). 7.Outlying Islands. (excluding Lantau).

Any better ideas, comments and opinions are most welcome. Also, any help in untangling the guide would be great. --(WT-en) Herngong 03:46, 28 June 2009 (EDT)


 * I agree that a clean up is needed. In my eyes, what in particular makes the page messy now is that there are three levels of pages (Main page, Hong Kong Island page, and the individual pages of the subdivision of Hong Kong Island).  If your suggestion implies that there will be only two levels (main page and the other seven), I can agree to the suggestion.  I will be happy to do the reorganisation.  However, a list of administrative districts and which of the suggested seven districts each belong to would be a great help.  (WT-en) ClausHansen 09:24, 28 June 2009 (EDT)


 * Maybe we could use a set-up like New York City in which Manhattan is a separate town. Thus, we would get Hong Kong Island/Central and Western instead of Hong Kong/Central and Western. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 05:09, 3 February 2010 (EST)

Not sure what globe-trotter means by this, please expand.(WT-en) Herngong


 * I agree with the 7 regions you proposed, its just that where would general information on all of Hong Kong Island go? Also, I'd like Wan Chai and Causeway Bay to be just Wan Chai (just a simpler name), and I wonder to the reasons for merging it with East? I think East could sustain its own article. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 23:04, 17 March 2010 (EDT)

I agree, Hong Kong Island would need to retain its own page, if only to introduce the areas to be found on HK Island. I disagree with dropping Causeway Bay and just calling it Wanchai. Causeway Bay is a major tourism destination in its own right and almost justifies its own page. Eastern simply does not have enough going on for even the most creative travel writer to rave about? If it does, add it in. (WT-en) Herngong 11:49, 19 March 2010 (EDT)


 * Generally, we do not have three levels in cities, except for New York. Therefore, very strong arguments are needed, if we should do it here.  Cities like London and Beijing can do with only two levels, so maybe Hong Kong can also.  What kind of Hong Kong Island information is it that can not either go to the Hong Kong main page or to one of the proposed districts?  I would like to hear some more opinions on this, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 12:19, 19 March 2010 (EDT)


 * I am definitely not seeing the need for an exceptional three level case here. Use the huge city template, and yes, the quickbar should 100% go as it is only used for nations. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 12:23, 19 March 2010 (EDT)

I think the main issue is that there are too many pages that are never likely to go anywhere. These pages are underwhelming and uninspiring. There is a need to merge these pages. (WT-en) Herngong 01:09, 20 March 2010 (EDT)

Incidentally, the number of people writing on the Hong Kong pages has virtually fizzled out. Perhaps a bit of makeover will inspire more to write? (WT-en) Herngong 01:11, 20 March 2010 (EDT)


 * Yes, that is often a positive side effect of obvious action here. Can you or somebody else please put forward a final strategy for what the structure should look like? I would urge going for a huge city template and no three level structure. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 02:22, 20 March 2010 (EDT)


 * I suggest we use the seven districts proposed by Herngong at the top of this section, but change the names as follows (and leaves out the Honk Kong Island article):
 * Western Hong Kong Island
 * Eastern Hong Kong Island
 * Southern Hong Kong Island
 * Kowloon
 * New Territories
 * Lantau Island
 * Outlying Islands
 * We can then split Eastern in two or three districts later on, if we have enough content
 * --(WT-en) ClausHansen 04:57, 20 March 2010 (EDT)


 * That sounds about right. We should though also take this opportunity to sort out the Outlying Islands region. It makes no sense at the moment. Islands north east of the NT are in the same travel region as those south of Lantau. I suspect many of those islands could be dealt with as attractions within another article and we may even not need an outlying islands region?
 * And as an aside can somebody please rewrite the district descriptions in the regionlist table? These should be pithy one or two liners, not essays! :)--(WT-en) Burmesedays 05:51, 20 March 2010 (EDT)


 * I agree with the list, though I'd change "Western Hong Kong Island" into "Central" as thats what the area is mostly called. The Outlying Islands, I'm not even sure if we need this grouping, but if we do, it is wrong on the map. It should be similar to the Islands District, obviously excluding Lantau. I agree with ClausHansen about East, we can always split up East later (and maybe even the same with Central, which could eventually be split into Admiralty, Sheung Wan, etc). --(WT-en) globe-trotter 10:19, 20 March 2010 (EDT)




 * In the spirit of plunging forward, I've adapted the map to show the new districts. Opinions? --(WT-en) globe-trotter 11:19, 20 March 2010 (EDT)

The new map looks good. I agree that we need to make sure that Central is on the map. I am surprised that people are questioning keeping the Outlying Islands as a section. The outlying islands are a big feature in HK life and the expression is widely used, including on signs. Basically, you can go to the Central ferry piers and pick your Outlying Island. They are a great tourist attraction in their own right.

Discovery Bay needs to be merged into Lantau.

We also need to clear where Central ends. Where is Admiralty, in Central, I guess? Wanchai is the first place in the new Eastern district? The Peak would be included in Central?


 * Agree on changing Western to Central. Definitely in favour of keeping Outlying Islands as defined on Globe-trotter's map.  Could we define Central in accordance with the administrative district of Central and Western?, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 12:24, 20 March 2010 (EDT)


 * Central on the map is defined as the Central and Western District of Hong Kong. All the questions of anon can be answered with a yes. I totally agree with keeping the Outlying Islands, its just that defining it has been problematic before (as Lantau is also one of them, but large enough to be a separate district, and there are thousands of islands in Hong Kong). That's why I suggested using the Islands District for it (excluding Lantau as its so big). I think the Outlying Islands should be mostly about Lamma, Cheung Chau and Peng Chau, but having separate district articles for each one could also be debated. About Discovery Bay and Disneyland, I agree with including them into Lantau. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 12:28, 20 March 2010 (EDT)


 * Thanks for doing the reorganization ClausHansen! I think the names look a bit odd though.. "Central Hong Kong Island" strikes me as incorrect as it is not the geographic centre of the island. And well, I've only heard of it as being called just "Central". I think the East could be called Wan Chai and Causeway Bay as thats what most visitors would be looking for. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 19:56, 20 March 2010 (EDT)


 * I would have preferred Western Hong Kong Island and Eastern Hong Kong Island, but changed Western Hong Kong Island to Central Hong Kong Island as I thought that was what was suggested by Globe-trotter and Herngong. "Central", I would say, is a smaller area than the full district of Central and Western, but I do not feel strongly about this, so please change if you want.  Also Wan Chai and Causeway Bay is a smaller area than our suggested district, so I think Eastern Hong Kong Island is the best name, but please change if you want, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 20:19, 20 March 2010 (EDT)


 * I know the covered areas are larger, I'm just trying to find some snappier and catchier names, thats all :) I now used the header Hong Kong Island and put the districts Central, East and South under them. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 20:36, 20 March 2010 (EDT)

Thank you ClausHansen and globe-trotter for giving Hong Kong the makeover it has long needed. I agree that the names are a problem, but least they now refer to the right areas. I can now see that the page for Central (Central and western??) looks like it need massive attention. This is the most important tourist destination and it now lets the guide down in a way that is so much more obvious. What is now going to happen to the old Hong Kong Island page? Is there a need to move some of this into Central?

Finally, on the Hong Kong front page it looks wrong to put Kowloon under the heading "Outer districts". Kowloon is a core area of the territory(WT-en) Herngong 20:58, 20 March 2010 (EDT)


 * Yes, "outer districts" is definitely wrong, but I didn't know what else to name the areas outside of Hong Kong Island. Maybe "Other districts", but its sounds so lame. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 22:17, 20 March 2010 (EDT)


 * I have now moved all listings from the old Hong Kong Island article to the relevant districts. A lot of clean up is needed, though, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 08:10, 21 March 2010 (EDT)


 * Thanks! What do you think of the way I set up the districts now? I looked at the Chicago article and applied that way of making districts to Hong Kong Island. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 08:28, 21 March 2010 (EDT)


 * I think it works very well, except for the names as discussed above, (WT-en) ClausHansen 08:37, 21 March 2010 (EDT)


 * Yep, they're still a problem. I think eventually we'll get separate districts for The Mid-Levels and The Peak, Wan Chai and Causeway Bay, Central, Lan Kwai Fong and Soho, Sheung Wan and Kennedy Town, the East Coast and the South Coast. But now there's not enough content to create them yet. Eventually I think Kowloon will have to turn into smaller districts as well (Tsim Sha Tsui, Yau Ma Tei and Mong Kok, and New Kowloon), but again, I cannot say there's enough content yet. So dealing with names now is problematic as they deal with multiple distict district areas. Maybe we could turn Central into Central and Sheung Wan, and turn East into East Coast? --(WT-en) globe-trotter 10:04, 21 March 2010 (EDT)

I am very pleased with the new look. It appeals because it is possible to add new pages as the guide grows. When I have time I will get to work on helping to smooth out some of the wrinkles that the mergers have created. Pleasure collaborating with you 2 guys. (WT-en) Herngong 10:53, 22 March 2010 (EDT)

the map (and quickbar)
last time I checked Hong Kong is part of China! Why are we using a map that is from the colonial area???


 * I do not really see how using a map that clearly shows and identifies Hong Kong necessarily equates with being from the "colonial era". However, a new map would appreciated I am sure. Draw one and upload it if you wish. The treatment of Hong Kong as a special administrative region (SAR) seems to confuse even the Chinese government so I am not sure why a travel guide that clearly shows the extent of that region is a bad thing.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 23:52, 17 October 2009 (EDT)


 * Hong Kong is administered in Wikivoyage with the country template. Not because it is an independent country, but because it feels like an independent country for travellers. Hong Kong has a different visa scheme, immigration policy, currency, etc. when compared with Mainland China. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 05:00, 3 February 2010 (EST)


 * I also find it reasonable that we treat Hong Kong differently than other cities in China. However, it seems strange that we use the quickbar, which is solely intented for nations.  England does not have a quickbar, so why should Hong Kong (or Macao)?, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 18:46, 19 March 2010 (EDT)


 * England doesn't have a quickbar because, quoting Peter from UK talk page, Visa info, government, tld, phone codes, currency, time zone, language—all will be the same as the UK, which is (mostly) not the situation with Hong Kong (and Macau, neither). – (WT-en) Vidimian 06:56, 20 March 2010 (EDT)


 * Hong Kong is de facto a different country than China as it has separate laws, currency, economic system, visas, etc, thats why I think the quickbar should remain. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 12:52, 20 March 2010 (EDT)


 * I still object to removing the quickbar ;-) --(WT-en) globe-trotter 08:27, 21 March 2010 (EDT)


 * Hmmm, I understand the arguments, however it is not a separate country, and we do treat it as a city of China in the way we have structured the articles, but if I am alone with this view, please put the quickbar in again, (WT-en) ClausHansen 08:44, 21 March 2010 (EDT)

The status of Hong Kong is complicated. It is not just another Chinese city. SAR does mean a great deal and that special status has real meaning to tourists with regard to visas and currency etc. Think of it as a Chinese colony that was once British. What other Chinese city has its own Olympic team? I have taken a look at the Taiwan page and the special box looks ugly, I hope we can just ignore the politics and write something for Hong Kong that is practical. (WT-en) Herngong 10:30, 22 March 2010 (EDT)

I have just noticed that the very first sentence of the Hong Kong guide is incorrect. "Hong Kong is a huge city with several district articles containing sightseeing, restaurant, nightlife and accommodation listings — consider printing them all. This is not right, Hong Kong is an SAR. It is a territory and it is also the name of an island. The guide is about an SAR, not a city. Any suggestions on better wording? (WT-en) Herngong 10:41, 22 March 2010 (EDT)
 * The first sentence in italics is a standard phrase that almost all bigger areas have and just an information for inexperienced users that in the district sections are more details than in the main article. This shouldn't be change. I agreed that SAR is different and your colony comparison is fine for me. I think you can do adjustments in the Understand section if you want to. (WT-en) jan 10:50, 22 March 2010 (EDT)


 * In regard to quickbar (and most of other concerns here), the guideline to follow is the traveller comes first, I think. Hong Kong, with its seperate currency, seperate postal system/telephone code, and most important of all, with its seperate visa regime, is practically a seperate country from PRC for the traveller, no matter what the official designations say. – (WT-en) Vidimian 13:07, 22 March 2010 (EDT)


 * About the "huge city", this is a standard template. It also used for examples like Walt Disney World, which cannot even be considered a city. Agree with Vidimian on the quickbar. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 13:36, 22 March 2010 (EDT)

Trumpets blaring
I removed the following social trumpeting from the article. ''Go and visit a public housing estate and then a private estate on the same day and you can witness the differences between rich and poor in the city. Next, visit a fresh food market and a larger supermarket or "superstore" and you can witness the struggle between small retailers and corporations. Alternatively, go and visit one of the small shopping centres in Mongkok where you can see teenagers spending their pocket money on overpriced footwear and youth fashions.''--(WT-en) Burmesedays 03:07, 18 April 2010 (EDT)

It was an interesting style of travel writing! But I think it needed to go because it does not really match the style of the guide. We need to keep things a bit more informative and avoid preaching to readers.(WT-en) Herngong 07:01, 18 April 2010 (EDT)

To be moved to districts



















 * Maxim's, City Hall Low Block, Hong Kong Location 2nd Floor, tel 2521 1303 &mdash; A restaurant chain with the most popular branch at City Hall that has an English menu, while it costs about $120-$180 each person. But at weekends, be sure to arrive before 11:30AM, or else you should expect to wait for an hour or even longer.


 * Ho Choi&mdash; A restaurant chain with several branches that serves tasty and affordable dim sum in the morning & afternoon.


 * Tao Heung Super 88&mdash; A restaurant chain with a more affordable price tag for its dim sum with several branches. About $ 60 - $100 per person.

Tipping
I'll just highlight some points here. Tipping is generally not expected or practised by locals in Hong Kong. Pretty much the only time you would be expected to tip is when the hotel bellboy carries luggage for you, or provides you with some service such as calling a cab. The is not the USA or Canada, where you are expected to tip for every little service such as a taxi driver, or a waiter in restaurants. This is not Japan, where it can be offensive to tip, the taxi drivers and waiters will not reject any tips you care to hand out, but as I mentioned, it is entirely up to you, and usually locals do not leave any tip.

I understand that for North Americans, not tipping can be seem unappreciative as tipping is the norm back home. While I respect the decision of North American tourists to tip while in Hong Kong, I think we should make it clear what the local customs regarding tipping are, and not try to coax anyone on whether or not you should tip. Whether or not one decides to tip should be a personal choice, but one that is made after considering all the local customs regarding the practice. (WT-en) Superdog 04:02, 24 May 2010 (EDT)

I do agree with Superdog on this. I have a real concern with some of the recent edits to the Hong Kong pages. Lots of text seems to have been edited out and is being replaced with very poor quality material that is no better and often far worse than what was there. In particular, I have serious concerns about 60.48.160.90 who seems intent on ruining this travel guide. Please can somebody keep an eye on this person? (WT-en) Herngong 08:14, 24 May 2010 (EDT)


 * I had already thought as much. Please see User talk:60.48.160.90. I am going to revert much of this right now.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 08:25, 24 May 2010 (EDT)


 * While tipping isn't expected for every little service as america and you're free to decide to tip or not, not tipping can be seem unappreciative in midrange to upmarket restaurants. For delivery service, you're also expected to give a few coin and it's almost a norm. You won't face any troubles if you don't tip in the right places in Hong Kong, but it'll only be regarded as unappreciative. Lonely planet and many travel books are pretty misleading on this topic, better ask someone who hasn't just traveled to Hong Kong for a few times before further editing this out.


 * Also the consumption of shark fin is a controversial topic and like many environment issues, locals have split over this topic. The guide is to provide tourists with practical advices, not a place for preachers to promote certain moral grounds on behalf of all tourists. The line Tourists may wish to note the example of those Hong Kong people who have decided to stop buying shark fin over concerns for the ecological impact of overfishing is therefore replaced.


 * The basic consultant fee for seeing a doctor doesn't start from HK$300. Many starts from around HK$150. While proof-reading is definitely welcome, it's rather ill to keep putting back misleading figures.


 * In drinking section, it's said that "Traditionally, Chinese people are more likely to drink tea". The so-called Asian flush is as misleading as another allerbgy called lactose intolerance that suggests a notable population of Asians are not fit to drink milk. That is as fun as suggesting Americans are allergic to peanuts and chocolate. While it does happen to some people, it's far lesser common than your travel reference guide suggests.


 * In tobacco section, please don't remove the line that only "25g of tobacco products" is allowed. As far as I see, rollies are at least pretty popular among western backpackers in Hong Kong. They surely need to know how many grams of tobacco they are allowed to bring.


 * I further removed the description about drinking tradition. While drinking tea is definitely common, I don't see drinking beer and alcohol is less common. The description is just misleading. --60.49.90.233 22:18, 24 May 2010 (EDT)


 * Anonymous user 60.48.160.90 must be the same as anonymous user 60.49.90.233. Please familiarise yourself a little with way Wikivoyage does things.
 * There is an obvious disagreement on some of the issues which your edits deal with. That is clear from this talk page. In such circumstances, the relevant changes should be discussed here first. Please understand that at Wikivoyage we operate by Project:Consensus. Please see the section of that article titled Project:Consensus. That policy exists for very good reasons. If you assert that your changes are the only acceptable ones, and another user disagrees, we would wind up in an edit war, which would be unproductive. Instead, our practice is to revert to the status quo in case of a disagreement, and to discuss the proposed changes until some sort of mutually acceptable agreement is reached.
 * As a trivial aside, accusing an administrator of vandalism when that person has a history of more than 19,000 edits here, is not going to help you be taken too seriously.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 23:56, 24 May 2010 (EDT)


 * Vandalism is not judged on the number of edits that users contributed, it's about what they did. When there's a grammar mistake in the article, we're expected to correct it instead of removing others' contribution entirely and replacing it with misleading information. It's true that administrators are expected to do better but it's disappointed when they fail to. --60.49.90.233 00:32, 25 May 2010 (EDT)


 * You have clearly not bothered to read what I took time to explain to you above. Your edits were reverted according to the Status quo bias policy as they added little other than bad grammar, and others (as is clear from this discussion) disagreed with you. I am not sure what could be clearer than that, and what could be further away from vandalism.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 00:52, 25 May 2010 (EDT)


 * I welcome other Hong Kong residents to advice me if I've been wrong, but nobody has even chased me down for a tip in Hong Kong. For the record, I have been to many mid-range restaurants, and none of them expected tips, including a Western restaurant I went to. I really doubt lonely planet will be misleading on this though. Sure they may be out of date regarding various stuff, but I don't think the tipping culture will change overnight. To be honest, I've been seeing similar style edits in the China article, which took place before the entire Hong Kong article started getting changed. While I don't deny that a few of the edits are constructive, most of it seems to be just adding poor grammar. I hope Herngong and Burmesedays can have a look at some of these edits, and let me know if you smell a rat. --(WT-en) Superdog 11:45, 25 May 2010 (EDT)


 * No one will "chase you down" for a tip. They won't always say a bad word if you don't tip in a right situation. They won't tell you it's mandatory for you to tip. It's merely regarded as unappreciative.


 * Previously, you said that not tipping is not seen as unappreciative. Glad that you don't hold this mistake anymore. Now you invented a new criteria that tipping is not necessary if no one chase you down for it. That's a great leap of logic. Even in America, chasing you down for a tip, in my limited experience is not common. While proof-reading is a good thing, logic proof arguments are also important. please avoid adding nothing but a misleading conclusion on your limited experience in Hong Kong.--60.50.18.31 01:08, 27 May 2010 (EDT)


 * For the record, you are never expected to tip in Hong Kong restaurants. Sure it's nice to leave one, but it is never expected, and locals rarely leave any. Plese stop changing the article as if you know everything. Herngong is also a Hong Kong resident like you claim to be, and he also wrote that tipping is completely optional, just as I have. As Burmesedays mentioned, currently there are more than one users who disagree with you, so we shall follow Status quo bias policy unless we can have more people coming forth to support your point -- (WT-en) Superdog 03:36, 27 May 2010 (EDT)


 * If a guy who claims to know a tipping custom in Hong Kong rarely see a local to leave a tip in mid-range and upmarket restaurants, he's really making a fool of himself. As far as i read, herngong hasn't replied to this thread regarding the tipping custom in Hong Kong. You better ask him before speaking on behalf of him. I didn't say I know everything, I only asked you not to add something that you don't really know. Grammatically correct but misleading information is just nothing but a useless advice to anyone. :> --60.50.18.31 07:37, 27 May 2010 (EDT)

I think somebody is missing the point. Few of us are ever completely right or wrong, and we all have our own perspective on the places we know. Writing for wikivoyage is supposed to be fun but it's about forming a consensus. Deleting whole paragraphs is never going to win friends and influence, even if you think you know better. I would suggest that if you are serious about contributing some more, then why not create a user ID and tell us something about who you are!(WT-en) Herngong 10:19, 27 May 2010 (EDT)

And please refrain from personal attacks. Your tone is very condescending. They are not going to win you any friends. While it's true that none of us are completely right, as Herngong says, it's about consensus here. So far, you are the only one who insists that your point is correct. If I made any mistake, I'll accept the fact if there is a consensus here that I made a mistake, but I'm waiting to see the consensus. Currently, you seem to be taking ownership of this article, so please note that this article is shared by everybody and does not belong to you alone. An the fact that you are using an anonymous IP and have not registered an account makes your intentions somewhat more dodgy. If you are really serious about contributing, please create an account and let us know a bit more about yourself. ---(WT-en) Superdog 21:32, 27 May 2010 (EDT)

60.48.160.90 Pulau Pinang 60.50.18.31 Pulau Pinang 60.48.164.102 Pulau Pinang Please monitor the above user very carefully. His command of the English language is very limited and he is slowly making destructive edits that are not doing much to enhance the quality of this travel guide. I have spent a lot of time correcting his mistakes and I don't think this approach is sustainable. Maybe we should not accept his edits unless they are written in something approaching English. I would suggest that given his limited writing skills that he sticks to adding new material and refrains from trying to delete material that has been part of the guide for a long time. If he does spot an inaccuracy it would be useful if he could flag this on this talk page so that it can be changed. I am concerned that the 'atmosphere' here has become unpleasant and I would like to avoid a series of negative and destructive comments. Looking forward to people making an effort to be positive and collaborative. (WT-en) Herngong 11:36, 1 June 2010 (EDT)

Discussion on Tipping
Most restaurants apply a 10% service charge to the bill. Let me emphasise - it's "most", not "all". I've been to restaurants that don't apply these charges. In such establishments, the waiting staff will usually make an effort to point out that fact during payment. In which case, I always leave something extra on the tab, not because it's mandatory, but as a sign of goodwill. (WT-en) Jack Lai 09:21, 29 May 2010 (EDT)


 * Exactly. In these cases, we don't tip based on certain percentage of the bill. Leaving something extra is usually enough. In very great and expensive restaurants, $50 is fine, $100 is seen as generous and big enough.  In midrange places, $20, $10, or even a few coins are good enough.


 * I've removed Superdog's recent edit "If no service charge is added to the bill, then a 10-15% tip is customary unless the service was particularly bad.", because it's fictional and misleading. Superdog, please refrain yourself from giving misleading information on something you don't know at all and your advice won't help anyone but your ego.


 * When you have dinner in Amigo's in Happy Valley and the bill is $3000, you are definitely not expected to leave $300 - $450 as tipping. --60.49.91.8 15:13, 30 May 2010 (EDT)

The South China Morning Post has recently exposed how tips are being abused by so many bar and restaurant owners. When a customer pays by credit card it is often the case that any tips given are used to cover the credit card service charge. According to SCMP news reports, tips are most unlikely to go to the person a tourist wishes to thank. I think many HK people are savvy about this and we need to caution tourists from naively making fools of themselves. (WT-en) Herngong 10:06, 31 May 2010 (EDT)


 * If the practice can hit the newspaper, it usually means it's something not even known to many local. It seems to me that in most restaurants, owners will either take all tipping, or put all these tipping into a metal box which will be given to everyone. Tipping an individual waiter seems to be very uncommon. --60.48.164.102 13:00, 31 May 2010 (EDT)


 * I admit I made a mistake in the line I added. I thought I just add something I saw in many travel forums. Anyway, there is no intention to mislead anyone. But please refrain from personal attacks once again. I really am tempted to report you for abusing my talk page, and such things clearly can be discussed here. (WT-en) Superdog 03:18, 4 June 2010 (EDT)


 * Changed the tipping section. Tipping is not expected, but no one will complain or think you are stupid if you do it. This is Hong Kong.  If you offer money, people will take it. (WT-en) Roadrunner 06:48, 2 September 2010 (EDT)

I am not sure that I agree with Roadrunner on tipping. I have witnessed tourists being mocked for their ignorance of the tipping rules. Hongkongers do not respect people who are unwise with their money. I think Roadrunner has watered down the section on tipping by deleting large sections. I Think you might have reworded some sentences. Unless others say otherwise, I think the words you have deleted should be restored. (WT-en) Herngong 06:51, 3 September 2010 (EDT)

"Traditionally, in much of China, people are more likely to drink tea, rather than alcoholic beverages. Many east Asian people are predisposed to alcohol intolerance, a condition that often manifests itself as the so-called 'Asian flush'." This is not in line with many parts of China, nor other "east Asian" countries like ROK or Japan. Perhaps "while there are many places to sip a beer, HK has a strong tea (and milk tea) culture, bringing satisfaction to lovers of alcoholic drinks as well as non." (WT-en) Zepppep 12:53, 13 March 2011 (EDT)

Partial protection
I am going to suggest partial protection on this article, which will allow edits by registered users only. Some of the recent edit warring is quite ridiculous.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:41, 3 June 2010 (EDT)


 * I'd agree - the users in question should work out an agreement on this talk page before making any further edits to the main article. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 11:55, 3 June 2010 (EDT)


 * Done. Article protected from unregistered user edits for 24 hours. It is a shame when we need to resort to this. I would urge administrators to watch this article carefully. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 12:11, 3 June 2010 (EDT)

KCR or MTR?
The KCR still gets 7 mentions on the HK page. Since the KCR has long gone does anybody know any good reason for keeping these references to the old KCR? Anybody new to HK will see just one amalgamated MTR map, but might hear locals referring to KCR because old habits die hard. (WT-en) Herngong 11:01, 6 June 2010 (EDT)


 * I suggest all is changed to MTR. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 09:07, 10 June 2010 (EDT)

dress code
I am not sure this is the right advice: "On the flip side, certain upmarket restaurants, mainly the ones serving Western fine dining in Five Star hotels, have strict dress codes and it's likely you'll be refused entry for not wearing a jacket and tie. Some of them may offer you a jacket for free but usually no long pants are available. Ask before you go." My experience is the opposite. 5-star hotels and restaurants have a more relaxed feel and smart casual, certainly no tie but long trousers, is the dress code. Any comments?

Drinking section revisions
The drinks section is loaded with generalizations about Hong Kong Chinese drinking habits that simply aren't true. I've removed some of the statements which are either patently false or too subjective to bother including: 1. "Nevertheless, a number of Chinese people do drink, but in moderate amounts, so don't expect to find a bar or pub in every neigbourhood." << I can think of very few neighbourhoods in Hong Kong *without* a bar or pub.

2. "Drinking alcohol with food is acceptable, and some enterprising cafe owners will offer beer to foreign tourists." << Beer and wine is standard on many menus. It's not just for tourists.

3. "Overall, there is no expectation to order alcohol with your meal, and if you are eating out with Chinese friends it may be the last thing on their minds." << If this were the case, seafood restaurants and dai pai dongs wouldn't sell beer by the bucket (literally!).

4. "In Hong Kong, bars are almost synoymous with expats and tourists." << Again, simply not true. There are entire bar districts, like Tung Choi Street in Prince Edward, that are dedicated to local drinkers.

5. "The sales tax on alcohol is low compared to many western countries." << Misleading, because there is no longer *any* tax on wine or beer as of 2008. And spirits are still taxed at 40% which is hardly low.


 * Whilst it is obvious that you know a good deal about life in Hong Kong, the points made above don't seem to take into account where many tourists come from. In comparison to France, Germany, UK, Ireland etc. Hong Kong is a real slouch when it comes to alcohol consumption, even if Hongkongers are ordering it by the bucket. Many Brits might mock a few buckets of small bottles shared on a table of many.


 * Hong Kong really is a great place to live. Thankfully, I don't see any people urinating in shop doorways in Causeway Bay after a "night on the piss". Also, where are the beer fuelled fights? The ubiquitous piles of vomit on pavements? Although CWB is a great place for a night out and does have plenty of bars - it is also true that groups of trendy young people are just as likely to hit the dessert restaurants, rather than "get wasted". The atmosphere in CWB at midnight on a Saturday night is brilliant, but it's not the same as chucking out time in other cities where the majority of the people on the streets are either the worse for wear with drink or else they are a cop sorting out the violence among drinkers.


 * Victoria Park is a great place to walk around anytime of the day, but where are the teenagers and the sad people who drink cheap booze hopelessly concealed in brown paper bags? I have yet to see anybody drink alcohol on the MTR, let alone see and hear groups of drinkers getting a few extra drinks down their necks on the train on their way to a good night out.


 * I have been to a very large French restaurant in Kowloon (not Delifrance) and found they don't serve any alcohol, let alone a glass of French wine - unthinkable in France.


 * In comparison to, say, Sydney, New York or London, Hong Kong alcohol consumption is very low. If it was as high in Hong Kong as some claim, then I doubt if the Hong Kong government could have afforded to scrap the tax on alcohol. Also, the health lobby would be campaigning against zero tax on booze if drinking was the issue that it is in many places.


 * I would therefore argue that we inform the newbies to Hong Kong that drinking is done in moderation (moderation is being used as a comparative, rather than a subjective term). Depending on what company you keep, I find it very difficult to find Chinese friends who will join me with a beer, western friends simply expect that a good night out will revolve around drink - the food is a secondary concern to mop up 5 pints of ale.


 * It seems fair to warn tourists that "if you are eating out with Chinese friends alcohol may be the last thing on their minds." Again, a fair point of comparison for tourists who might come from a very different drinking culture?


 * The challenge seems to me to be able to write something that informs tourists of the differences, rather than writing a report that suggests Hong Kong is, more or less, the same as other places.


 * Finally, I do hope that you will write more about Hong Kong. There are still many fresh topics that need to be covered and I would like to see more people helping to make this page become a Star. Maybe you can create an account to make life easier? There has been a lot of vandalism in the past few hours, so you might find some certain advantages if the page has restricted editing rights. (WT-en) Herngong 09:32, 22 June 2010 (EDT)


 * Brush aside this very long reply, you may want to check the restrictions on the Liquor License in Hong Kong and it explains a lot why a few of French restaurants in Hong Kong can't serve alcohol. It'd be much better if you can show us the name of that restaurant so that other people can check it for you. --112.67.27.189 20:30, 28 May 2011 (EDT)

"Get In" only gives you information on how to Get Out of Hong Kong.
I'm in Shenzhen and I'm trying to figure out how to get to Hong Kong. You would think the "Get In" section would have some more useful information on the topic...

Guide Status
I think this article is good enough for guide status. (WT-en) Sumone10154 16:51, 18 January 2011 (EST)

Thank you for noticing the work that has been done to improve this page. (WT-en) Herngong 05:31, 22 January 2011 (EST)

Alcohol
I wouldn't be so quick to lump HK in with China or "east Asians" when it comes to the ability to consume alcohol; additionally, "Asian flush" doesn't mean the drinking culture is non-existent in HK or least of all, difficult to find anything but tea or milk tea. Yes, the tea and milk tea culture is a part of everyday life and there may not be empties lining the streets at 5AM from drunkards stumbling home, but there are plenty of places (and plenty of locals) who imbibe along with their Chinese, ROK and Japanese counterparts. I see some others had similar improvement ideas; anyone else? (WT-en) Zepppep 12:59, 13 March 2011 (EDT)

Agreed. I think this section is poorly written and misleading. Some others suggested an improvement on the article to make it look more factual. I think we need a more flexible and open-minded admin who tend not to generalize about his personal experience and stretch the meaning of it. --112.67.27.189 20:31, 28 May 2011 (EDT)

I was brought up in HK and could not believe what I saw when I lived in London. the difference between HK and London is huge. Yeah, people do drink in HK but that is missing the point. We aint no angels here in HK but the drinking culture in UK is terrible. I hate it when I see tourists "getting pissed" in Wanchai and doing it so ugly.

Hong Kong Star Discussion
I think this article is good enough to be a star. Every district is at guide status. (WT-en) Sumone10154 21:47, 26 January 2011 (EST)


 * I'd certainly say Hong Kong is not ready yet. The districts are at an appalling state compared to a similar city like Singapore. We only recently decided to split up Hong Kong Island, so things are still in a state of flux. I also think this district scheme could use some changes. For now we use "central", "eastern" and "southern" Hong Kong Island, but these are quite boring names not reflecting the neighborhoods. And these articles are new, with many incomplete and messy listings. I did some clean-up lately at Hong Kong/Kowloon, and while apparently listed as a "guide", I still think it has a long way to go. Then there are the outlying islands, which is an unwieldy and messy article. I think the three larger outlying islands should just have their own article, just like Lantau (Lamma, Peng Chau and Cheung Chau). --(WT-en) globe-trotter 02:49, 1 February 2011 (EST)


 * Agree that Hong Kong is far from being a star. The status of all district articles has recently been changed to guide, but most of them should really be usable.  I suggest we remove this nomination for now, work with the district articles until they really deserve to be guides and after that reconsider to work with the Hong Kong article to become a star.  There is a long way to go, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 03:14, 1 February 2011 (EST)


 * So for the district articles what has to be done? (besides fixing the listings) (WT-en) –sumone10154 08:07, 1 February 2011 (EST)
 * Hi Sumone! Listingfication is a huge job and especially moving the content in the correct sub-articles is a major task. User:(WT-en) Herngong is a seasoned user here and actively improves the article. I think the article can be turned fast into a strong guide article, when someone (you?) starts working and especially brings the overloaded text again to live. We tried to revive HK article several times but so far guide level was the most. HK doesn't lack content but structure and living writing. (WT-en) jan 09:09, 1 February 2011 (EST)


 * Not yet. I agree that the district articles are not up to the standards that should be expected of a huge city star—they are far, far behind the quality found in our other Project:Star articles like Chicago, Bangkok, San Francisco, etc. Just looking at a few district articles, I would definitel dispute that they are at guide status. The most important (I think) would be Hong Kong/Central Hong Kong Island and Hong Kong/Kowloon. Both have empty sections, listings lacking details and descriptions, and I'm not sure how carefully curated the buy, eat, and drink sections really are. Furthermore, while the guidelines do only require guide status for the district articles, star status is meant to signify that our guide is either competitive with or superior to the best of our competition from other guidebooks. Without any district article maps, I think it's fair to say that this guide is still a pretty long ways off from that benchmark. For such a fantastic destination, though, it would be great to see the guide get closer to star status! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:15, 1 February 2011 (EST)

Result: slushed.

Transport
This was deleted by an anonymous user (95.200.192.213) in Sweden and I am not sure why. I suspect the advice is still valid, does anybody have a view about replacing it?

If you are on a budget, take an "E" (External) route bus rather than the "A" (Airbus) routes bus, which takes about 20 minutes longer (50-60 min instead of 35-40 min) and are about half the price (e.g. $21 for the E11 from Central). These 'External' buses are geared more for airport and airline workers, so they make several detours around Tung Chung and corporate offices. They will also give a nice tour around the airport island. However, E21 (Olympic MTR Station to Airport) takes more than an hour to the airport comparing to A21 (as E21 tour around not only airport island but Kowloon peninsula).