Talk:Helsinki

Helsinki page is giving an error and is not displayed. Someone please correct!

Security issues
Is it really so scary down here that we need such a huge text block to explain that it actually isn't that dangerous at all? As far as I know, apart from drunken fights the only dangerous thing here are the slippery pavements.


 * Well noted; those sections tend to swell when locals start noting every bad thing that has ever happened and why it's not going to happen again. I tried to cut it down to size (and noted the pavements!). (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:08, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

-- I added once removed warning about crossing the streets; it's indeed very relevant for foreign visitors that came from countries where pedestrians can take it granted that their rights will be respected (re: http://www.hs.fi/kaupunki/artikkeli/Helsingiss%C3%A4+loukkaantuneet+norjalaiset+ovat+toipumassa/1135229433299)

Also, I think it is worthwhile destination information to underline that Helsinki *is* exceptionally safe to walk around and that there is no need to stay in the hotel and limit the excursions to clear daylight even if you're not of the young and adventurious type; my experience is that there are foreign cities where the good citizens shun the idea of entering the streets by foot after the darkness falls and any streets outside the neon-lit area are practically abandoned by the pedestrians.

The murder rate in Helsinki is much higher than almost all other European cities. 12.5 per 100,000 people per year compared to about 2 for dublin, london, vienna, rome, oslo etc. The murder rate in Helsinki is actually 2.55 Not 12.5 There is error in BBC source http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/artikkeli/Maakunnissa+enemm%C3%A4n+henkirikoksia+kuin+Helsingiss%C3%A4/1135233424670

Question concerning content
Hi, just some 1 week ago I was visiting the cathedral and at multiple spots paint came off the wall. Thus I'm a little surpised to read "the cathedral has recently been refurbished and looks better than ever" - when was this refurbishment? Or was it only at the outside? Thanks for that info, Schoschi of de.wikivoyage.org

To do:
Get-Around-section: What about cars - about parking in city centre to be more precise (fees, places etc?)

Drink-section: Maybe divided into subsections: citycenter, Uudenmaankatu and surroundigs, Kallio?

Party-section: Nightclubs shouldn't be to hard... there aren't that many. I don't have much expertise in that area, though.

Shop-section: Not my area either...

btw, If you add restaurants which are not in the center (or vicinity), we should probably create subsections there too.

-- Jussi


 * Is Helsinki big enough to divide up into districts? See Project:huge city article template and Project:district article template for some ideas. --(WT-en) Evan 17:09, 21 Jan 2004 (EST)


 * No, not really. Population is around 500,000 and almost all attractions, watering holes and hotels are in the fairly compact center. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:23, 29 Aug 2004 (EDT)


 * Err, those population statistics could be more presize, something like almost 560 000 for Helsinki and over 1,2 million for the Helsinki Region. Useful link: http://www.hel.fi/english/info/facts.html (Sorry, this probably isn't the right place for comments...)

Destination of the month
As this article will be the DotM for August, I think it might be a good idea if we all give it a once-over for manual of style compatibility. It looks good, but I've seen a few things that could use some more info, and some of these URLs need to be unpacked. --(WT-en) Evan 08:17, 28 Jul 2005 (EDT)

State
So I put this down as a "guide" but I think someone could argue it's a star. I think what it's lacking is a "tourist-style map" but I'm not sure if what's there would count. Comments?. (WT-en) Majnoona 22:48, 20 Nov 2005 (EST)

Similary to Stockholm
What makes Helsinki similar to Stockholm? Since it's reading in the article. Does Stockholm have the Russian empire like architecture like Helsinki does, from what I know it does not. I find it deceptive and it should be changed. OR if not then please explane!


 * They're both small, Nordic and boring, but Stockholm is a little bigger. "Russian" architecture in Helsinki is pretty much limited to the Uspenski Cathedral.  But instead of just deleting, how about you write a better description? (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:16, 7 Dec 2005 (EST)


 * I guess Helsinki and Stockholm being boring is pretty subjective, huh? I changed it a bit, feel free to comment if you don't feel convinced.


 * Eh, all what C.L. Engel has made in Helsinki is Russian Empire style. So, basically only whole senate square. Also few more not so important buildings like Merikasarmi (current foreign ministry) Uspenski is only example of Russian church architecture. Otherwise whole city is full of buildings designed by Russians or in St. Petersburg by order of Russian Tsar. Basically Sederholms house is one of only buildings from Swedish time since of burn of Helsinki in 1808 and rest of which is not more or less Russian is younger than 90 years. (WT-en) TeeMa

Reviews from Flyertalk
mosburger from Flyertalk has kindly granted permission to copy his capsule reviews of fine Helsinki restaurants to Wikivoyage. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:16, 6 July 2006 (EDT)and god said pie rocks

Focus on Helsinki?
I'm wondering about the focus of this article; should it be on the city of Helsinki alone or should the whole metropolitan area be covered? On one hand the three major cities (Helsinki, Espoo and Vantaa) work pretty much in cooperation and the municipality distinction is somewhat artificial &mdash; the international airport is actually located in Vantaa and "Helsinki" University of Technology is located in Espoo &mdash; but on the other hand, they are three distinct cities.

It just seems a bit odd that these three major Finnish cities (1st, 2nd and 4th largest as far as population goes) are all covered in one article (Espoo and Vantaa currently redirect to the Helsinki article) while much smaller cities and towns in Finland have their own articles. Furthermore, is a visitor to Helsinki really going to take the bus to Iso Omena or Myyrmanni malls when shopping? (WT-en) Jopo 08:14, 21 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Yeah, this is a bit tricky. But I don't think Espoo or Vantaa are "destinations" in the sense required for an article, so I don't see a need for splitting them off. If the Helsinki article is ever districted, then it would make sense to put them in their own districts. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:31, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

hel.fi vs helsinki.fi
So, some obscure history... the U of Helsinki (of Linus Torvalds fame) snagged helsinki.fi before the city caught onto this Intarweb thing, and the city was consequently relegated to hel.fi and wasn't too happy about it. After lots of fighting, the university agreed to decamp to helsinki.fi/university, and helsinki.fi was turned into the spectacularly useless "Helsinki Portal". The official tourism pages are still under hel.fi, so in my opinion that's where the official link should go. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:44, 4 October 2006 (EDT)


 * helsinki.fi was revamped recently and seems much improved. The front page now actually has useful stuff like event listings, weather info and the Journey Planner. A "Tourism and recreation" section also exists. On the other hand the hel.fi page is still around and has a link to helsinki.fi so I guess it continues to be more official. (WT-en) Lcpitkan 05:55, 13 February 2007 (EST)

Unnecessary Swedish names?
Jpatokal, can you state why the Swedish names are unnecessary? The Swedish names can often be easier to remember than the Finnish names (and vice versa), so can't both names stay?

BTW my edits had also more information than just place and street names, and it appears you reverted also them... :) 153.1.21.18 10:46, 12 December 2006 (EST)


 * See Talk:Finland. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:59, 12 December 2006 (EST)


 * OK, fine, but wtf is this then: There is also a significant Swedish speaking minority, and at many venues downtown you can also get service in Swedish. – if Swedish street and place names are unnecessary, wouldn't this be too? (WT-en) Ultrix 07:16, 20 December 2006 (EST)


 * That's there in case you happen to speak Swedish. (And if you do, you're not going to need tables of Swedish words.) (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:46, 20 December 2006 (EST)


 * Yeah, and if you do speak Swedish, you're most likely going to need the Swedish place names too. That's another argument for keeping them in the article, at least when mentioned the first time. If there's just "Katajanokka", and a Swede asks his Finland-Swedish friend eg. "kan du ta oss till Katajanokka när vi visiterar er" (= can you take us to Katajanokka when we visit you), will the Finland-Swede of course understand, but it sounds ridiculous. A bit like if you were talking in Finnish "mennäänks Stockholmiin vai Haparandaan" instead of Tukholmaan and Haaparantaan - ludicrous, isn't it? (WT-en) Ultrix 05:49, 9 February 2007 (EST)


 * Under the arbitrary three-first-letters rule I proposed on Talk:Finland, Katajanokka/Skatudden qualifies. But let's keep this on Talk:Finland, I'd prefer to establish a country-wide policy... (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:56, 9 February 2007 (EST)

I haven't edited any public wiki-article yet, so I'll just start with making a remark on this discussion page. In the understand/history-part of the Helsinki article it says that "...establisment of Sveaborg (nowadays Suomenlinna) Maritime Fortress...". I quickly read through the finnish/swedish-discussion on the talk/Finland page, but this still seems wrong. The name of Sveaborg hasn't changed to "Suomenlinna", "Suomenlinna" is just the finnish name.(WT-en) Pihlip 24.7.2011

Euros
This is the English Wikivoyage, so prices should be listed as &euro;1.50 (English), not 1,50&euro; (Finnish). (WT-en) Jpatokal 16:54, 9 May 2007 (EDT)


 * Jopo, thanks for finally cleaning that up! Up next, all other articles for Finland =P (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:14, 14 May 2007 (EDT)


 * ;) --(WT-en) Jopo 04:07, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

Murder rates
I'm not disputing that Helsinki (like the rest of Finland) has a high murder rate by European standards. However, I don't think this has anything to do with visitors to the city, because an overwhelming majority of the people getting murdered in Finland end up that way in drunken family disputes. If you disagree, please find me one (1) case of a tourist being murdered in Helsinki. (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:05, 24 September 2007 (EDT)


 * Drunken family disputes? Are you serious?  That's the number one cause of murders in Finland? -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 13:30, 24 September 2007 (EDT)


 * Yup. And the weapon of choice is a knife (one of these, to be exact). (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:23, 8 October 2007 (EDT)


 * Number one cause of homicides in Finland is drunken fights among groups of people, who have gathered to drink in some other place than public bar(how do you say "ryyppyporukka" in English?). Sometimes there`s family members included, but thats not the point. The point is excessive consumption of alcohol somewhere where no-one is going to stop the fight or call the police before it`s too late. And yes, often there`s knife(s) involved.
 * Also, often these people have a lot of troubles in their life already, like alcoholism, long lasting unemployment, perhaps more or less crime records etc.


 * http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/rikos.shtml/arkistot/rikos/2008/01/599275


 * http://www.haaste.om.fi/29086.htm
 * (links are in Finnish)


 * (WT-en) Hessu 03:39, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

Dramatic performance?
Hi all,

If I'm looking to catch some dramatic performance in Helsinki, what venues should I look out for?219.95.250.190 11:23, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

Whys Festivals
Whys festivals under understand-it's a DO thing. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee talk 23:52, 16 November 2008 (EST).

Bug?
Hi,

The Loose bar is incorrectly listed as Frederikinkatu 34. However, when I go to edit the page, it appears that the address is correct (annankatu 25) in the editing textarea. What's going on? In any case, the main page needs to be updated.


 * It lists correctly for me, try updating (F5) or using this link - should make it work for you. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 14:50, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

Districts
How about splitting up the Helsinki in smaller districts, for instance like in this picture? As of now, the article is 47 pages long if printed and there are quite a lot of different Eat and Drink establishments in the article. Plus, I think it would be useful to have the sights, activities, restaurants, hotels etc. organized more exactly according to where in the city they're located - downtown, south, west, east or in the suburbs. In my opinion six district articles for Helsinki (plus one article each for Espoo and Vantaa which are part of the capital region but not of the city proper) would be a quite good number, Helsinki it isn't as big as London or New York anyways... Ypsilon (talk) 19:16, 23 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Good idea! But what about less districts, as Helsinki is not a huge city, like here: Central, West, North, East? Danapit (talk) 18:42, 24 May 2013 (UTC)


 * But Stockholm, Copenhagen and St.Petersburg and everyone else also have a lot of district articles!!! OK, that was a bad excuse :). While I definitely oppose the creation of twenty-something district stubs for Helsinki, I still think four is a little bit too little when we're at it. When designing the district division seen in the map I was thinking like this: 1. the city center is where most points of interest are - as in any city. If you want to move on to "some place with less action" you can go north or 2. south, and if you're going north Helsinki is effectively split up by the railway into a 3. western (greener, more silent, a bit more affluent) and 4. eastern (more bohemian and "rough") part. Further away we have the suburbs "where you cannot go by tram" with shopping malls and highways, which I split up in two 5. 6., because I think it'd be quite odd to have places as far from each other as Itäkeskus and Konala in the same article. I also made a split between the Inner East and the Eastern Suburbs as in the first one is city like and the other, well, suburban. We could include the content of a possible South article in the Central article, but, again I feel the southern areas are a little bit too residential to be called "Central". And then of course separate articles for Espoo and Vantaa. It's just a local Stadilainen's biased view on how to look at the city. Ypsilon (talk) 09:44, 26 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I understand your reasoning and mostly agree. I have a little bit problem with the South. In my mental concept of Helsinki this would belong partly to Center (areas like Kaivopuisto, Merisatama, Suomenlinna, Punavuori, Kamppi) or to West (Ruoholahti, Jätkäsaari, Lauttasaari) being an area around Laajalahti bay. Just a suggestion :-) It would be great to hear some more opinions before moving forward. Danapit (talk) 11:41, 26 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I am not from Helsinki, so my mental map is not too good for the purpose, but I think including Suomenlinna in "Centre" means you cannot longer just walk to the nice sounding restaurant you found, while Punavuori and Ullanlinna are residential, not busy centre areas. Kaivopuisto feels as centre just because people tend to go there, but not all interesting places have to be in "Center". I think there is no problem having eight districts, there is plenty to tell about any of them and it seems we have people interested in this city (I was quite impressed by the amount of information). --LPfi (talk) 13:46, 26 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm fine with a division of the southern areas like that. However I'd like to have a little bit of balance between the lengths of the different articles, so that the central article wouldn't alone be e.g. four times longer than the rest of the articles combined. Therefore I figured a separate article for the southern parts could be useful (to put some of the stuff in that otherwise would've gone into the central article). That's just a thought. But let's wait for some more comments. Ypsilon (talk) 14:21, 26 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Sounds convincing. Danapit (talk) 14:33, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

I've opposed distrification for Helsinki previously, because it's hard to split up naturally and it's just not that big. If we've got too much stuff in there (and some of those restaurant listings are pretty random: food court Hot Woks and half the Nepalese and Thai places in the city?), then maybe we should look at trimming out the fat...

But if y'all insist, then at least keep the number as low as possible. "Center" and "South" should just be one, I'd lump everything east of Pitkasilta (Kallio to Itakeskus) to be "East", and North/Vantaa are one block in my book (if they need a page at all...). Jpatokal (talk) 02:40, 29 May 2013 (UTC)


 * OK, looks like it's going to be: 1. Center (and South), 2. West, 3. Inner East, 4. Eastern Suburbs, 5. Vantaa and Northern Helsinki (exists already as Vantaa), 6. Espoo (exists). But let's wait at least another week or two before starting to break up the article. Ypsilon (talk) 20:31, 31 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Would you be able to prepare district article mock-ups, as well as one for the main article after districtification, to see which attractions and what content goes into each individual one? This would make the answer self-evident IMHO. PrinceGloria (talk) 06:01, 24 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Check out User:Ypsilon :). I've added quite a few more points of interest to the articles and I'll plan to improve a bit before the possible "release" (re-arrange some stuff, check whether all those web links work, clean up whatever has to be cleaned up and take some photos for better banners etc.). And the district map I made with no prior knowledge of Inkscape, well, as long as nobody opens it in fullscreen it's quite decent... Ypsilon (talk) 06:48, 24 June 2013 (UTC)


 * At a first glance, you really did great with the districtification and also the map! I think it can be released. I just wonder about Vantaa and Espoo: in the Helsinki main article Vantaa is included as a sort of district and Espoo isn't - in my opinion Espoo should also be included for consistency. What do you think? Danapit (talk) 07:44, 24 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Wohoo! Thanks! Yes, all of the Capital region should be somehow "accessible" from the main article as they all kinda "belong" to Helsinki (now Vantaa is there just as a "stowaway passenger" as one can't sleep in Northern Helsinki). And that's an opportunity to teach myself more Inkscape while making a map of the Capital region (with both Espoo and Vantaa completely depicted). Ypsilon (talk) 12:26, 24 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I have also taken a look at your articles. I do admire the amount of effort you have taken so far.
 * That said, the article that cobbles together Northern Helsinki and Vantaa seems a bit clumsy to me. If Vantaa is a separate municipality, does it really "deserve" to be lumped together with Northern Helsinki? And even if so, a much more elaborate lead explaining why it is so, why they are in fact one entity that has more in common than Northern Helsinki has with other parts of Helsinki.
 * Alternatively, perhaps you could consider whether it would not be better to have all of the Helsinki suburbs in one article, and leave the poor Vantaa with its own article.
 * Finally, while the articles indeed help to see how you envisage to implement the split, without at least area maps it is hard to see whether the "district" boundaries make sense and the districts are indeed entities that are easy to explore and navigate on their own each. Perhaps you could use the Google Maps and mark all the important POIs in each district for us to get a good idea thereof. You could then use the Google Maps to make the final maps yourself or ask the kind mapmaking souls to do it. Kindest, PrinceGloria (talk) 13:14, 24 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I definitely think the main Helsinki article should cover the whole capital region (which it actually now already does) as Helsinki, Espoo and Vantaa from the travelers point of view are one single metropolis, period. Espoo (itself including and enclosing the administratively separate city of Kauniainen, 6sqkm, 9000 inhabitants, AFAIK no hotels) and Vantaa are indeed administratively separate cities - just like City of Westminster is officially separate from London. But Espoo and Vantaa are not typical cities with one absolute city center but areas containing different clusters of suburbs built up in the countryside around Helsinki.
 * Northern Helsinki does not consist of street blocks, walkable distances and the occasional summertime alfresco pub like Central, West and Inner East, but is in this respect quite similar to both the "far east", Vantaa and Espoo (six-line highways, high-rise apartment buildings, hypermarkets). But it's "on the road" to Vantaa, especially as most public transportation rays out from central Helsinki, and if the North content would move elsewhere, Vantaa would be a little emptier. But right now I'm working on a district map with all of Helsinki, Espoo and Vantaa which I at least would like to finish and put temporarily on show on User:Ypsilon/Helsinki because, well a map explains more than a thousand words (and I've already put down a couple of hours of work into it...) Ypsilon (talk) 17:46, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, so here's that map with a larger oversight, I already placed it on the mockup article a few days back. Ypsilon (talk) 10:34, 30 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Great job, I find it very good. I also think the district articles are in a good shape to be released. Danapit (talk) 10:25, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thx!! It took a while to make the maps (ah, the joy when the district colors float into the white waves of the sea like small colorful fishing hooks and you gotta redo everything :/). One more thing, though, before I dare to release them: quite a few of the coordinates that the map uses are incorrect. Kallio church is for example certainly not north of Pasila as the map claims... Ypsilon (talk) 10:47, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks like Torty3 and you Danapit fixed many of the coordinates. I'll start putting the district articles in the main namespace now, and at some point I'll start sorting out and adding coordinates for the rest of the listings. But I'm sorry to say that torty3's geocoder placed Espoo's Serena Water theme park about ten kilometers to the south-southwest when I just tried it. Ypsilon (talk) 16:17, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

I removed the District template from the page, since it has been discussed and performed. Great job, Ypsilon! Danapit (talk) 07:54, 5 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Is it possible to remove the green "Helsinki metropolitan area" map? I feel it provides double information together with the "Capital Region or Greater Helsinki" map. Danapit (talk) 08:53, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:42, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Status
After districtification, we should newly evaluate the status (and mainly those of the new districts). Helsinki was a guide before and for it to remain guide all districts must be at least usable, but I think that is no problem (I changed them all to usable for the time being). I wonder if some of them aren't guides already - West maybe? Danapit (talk) 23:28, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure they are all usable. West looks good, as (you've?) added the coordinates for everything. I'll eventually try to look through the other articles as well... ϒpsilon (talk) 09:23, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Further districtification
A glance at the dynamic map in Helsinki/Central tells me it wouldn't hurt to split Central a bit further. How about: Comments? Dana? Prince? --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:10, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Central-Katajanokka: East of Mannerheimintie, north of Esplanadi. Including the city core, Kaisaniemi, Kruunuhaka and Katajanokka.
 * 2) South: South of Bulevardi and Esplanadi. Including Punavuori, Eira, Ullanlinna and Kaivopuisto.
 * 3) Kamppi and Southwest: The corridor between Baana and Bulevardi, would also include Ruoholahti and Lauttasaari (ripped out of the West).


 * With 19 See and 3 Do? I would rather say the selection of Eat and Drink is perhaps a bit too liberal and this makes the map appear crowded. Also try to use a full page width MapFrame (align=none, width between 600 and 800) and use one further zoom level and it should appear much more clear.PrinceGloria (talk) 22:37, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * OK. ϒpsilon (talk) 05:14, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
 * ϒpsilon, sorry for the late reply... I tend to agree with PrinceGloria, that it is not necessary. The bigger map is good. Danapit (talk) 08:14, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Probably you're right... ϒpsilon (talk) 12:42, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

OK, I'm at least going to create a couple of mockup districts for people and myself to look at. If you still think we should keep Central as it is, then let's forget about it. ϒpsilon (talk) 08:21, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * And you can see the new districts here: User:Ypsilon/Central_Helsinki, User:Ypsilon/South_Helsinki, User:Ypsilon/Kamppi_and_Southwest. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:47, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Will deploy them this weekend, if there are no complaints. ϒpsilon (talk) 12:07, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * ϒpsi, I was a priori against further distrification, becasue I personally get lost in when travel guides divided in districst. Specialy in case of Helsinki, I thought dividing center further was not necessary, because it's so compact. However, I must say you did great job and the new districts make sense. Kamppi_and_Southwest would deserve a pretier banner, I feel :) I can take care of that. I hesitantly support the move. Danapit (talk) 17:37, 18 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Properly speaking it's not so much "further districtification" as just cutting off the southern and southwestern corner. I mean comparing to city districts in other cities, Helsinki/Central is really a candidate for the "longest article" prize, should we have one.
 * Kamppi and southwest's banner are from the viewing platform of the Verkkokauppa.com department store from little over a year ago and I have some other photos too from there. :) Ps. I played around with the banner's brightness and color saturation parameters, perhaps it looks better now? ϒpsilon (talk) 18:28, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * My idea for a banner was a view from Lauttasaari towards Ruoholahti accross the bay. I have some with a nice atmosphere - it's just a matter of finding them... Danapit (talk) 09:41, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Why not? I would have some pics from the same location as the banner pic but looking towards Lauttasaari, but those would be outdated as the city will demolish the very visible water tower in a couple of months. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:10, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Is that so??? What a pity! Danapit (talk) 17:51, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

New banner
User:Helenilus inserted a new banner, a unilateral edit which I have undone pending a discussion.

On this occasion, I find the proposed new banner superior to the existing one, and would support the change, however I don't know the city at all so can only judge from the perspective of a potential visitor.

Here are the two for comparison:





What does the community think? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:57, 6 February 2019 (UTC)


 * The new banner is the classic view of the city, close to what you see when arriving by sea, including the market place and the lutheran and orthodox cathedrals. The former one was of the railway station, which is an important landmark, but just one place. I think the new one is the obvious choice. --LPfi (talk) 18:01, 6 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi all, I read about discussing a proposed edit for banners, but as I wasn't quite sure how to do it, just for this occasion I went ahead and changed the banner without discussion. I hope community agrees a view of a cityscape better represents Helsinki. -- Helenilus (talk) 18:19, 6 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Yup, that's the view of Helsinki and a quite nice photo at that. On the other hand, we have so many article banners with "panorama from far away" that it gets sort of monotonous. Do as you like, but if the banner is changed, I think the railway station (and Sokos department store) banner should be used on Helsinki/Central, whose current banner is a zoomed in version of the new Helsinki banner. -- ϒψιλον  (talk ) 15:22, 7 February 2019 (UTC)


 * That's a nice idea.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:51, 7 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Okay, so over a whole day since the last opinion was offered, with unanimous support from everyone I expected to comment, I've plunged forward and instated the proposed banner. In just a sec, I'll put the old banner onto that district article.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:25, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Climate
Can you guys confirm this? Find it quite hard to believe. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:08, 30 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Climate change or the temperatures mentioned? For Turku, I have once experienced -34°C, while I remember every winter had a week or so with below -20° in the 1980s. In this century, day temperatures have dropped below -20° only some years, and I think not a single time below -25°. One should of course study the statistics instead of trusting one's memory.


 * For Helsinki, I suppose they might have even fewer really cold spells, as they are directly by the sea, which therefore has to freeze before they get the extremes. I believe the temperatures were given as too low before the edit (-30 for a week, that I'd remember! it happened once in the 1980s). And -15° for a week or two, that'd be normal.


 * –LPfi (talk) 01:31, 30 September 2021 (UTC)


 * For Helsinki, it depends. Near the sea it's milder but e.g. near the 3rd ring road (15 km inland) it's colder. -25°C is certainly possible in the night and early morning, during the day not expected but not impossible either. Days well above +30°C happened this summer, and before that during the long hot summer of 2018. --Ypsilon (talk) 04:36, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Regional trains
I was going to link Helsinki from Uusimaa, but there is not much information. I noticed though:
 * HSL city tickets are valid within city limits, regional tickets on suburban trains to Espoo, Vantaa and Kauniainen.

Is this still true? Isn't that system replaced with the ABCD system, where parts of Helsinki itself is in the more expensive regions?

I would also want to confirm my memory of bikes on trains: on IC trains there are racks (and I assume also on Pendolinos), but on regional trains, can you take bikes to any department?

–LPfi (talk) 10:58, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Tiketti, Tavasti etc.
I wonder whether some touting or otherwise inappropriate listings have slipped in.


 * Is Tiketti such an ubiquitous aggregator that we should list it? Normally we don't, and if they don't have tickets for all concerts, or don't treat all venues fairly, we should be very clear about what they offer.
 * Why is Tavastia listed here, and not only in the district article? If it is to be kept here for some reason, we should at least point to the listing proper in the district.
 * The bullet for Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra should point to the listing proper in a district.
 * "Skippered Day Sailing" should be treated like the normal cruises. Where are they? The listing, wherever it should go, should tell the company's name and other details, not just refer to a Facebook page.

The shopping districts are described by street names, the market halls by name. Shouldn't we also point to the district article in question?

–LPfi (talk) 18:17, 1 February 2022 (UTC)


 * I removed Tiketti and Tavasti (leaving the Tavasti image and caption, should perhaps be removed by the image policy). I left the rest, except cinemas. I think something more probably should be done to the Do section.


 * I cut down on the number of links for Finnkino and moved some cinema info to the neighbouring towns. However, I did not create listings in the districts. Also here it seems we are against policy: although these are not listings, we do not point to listings in the districts, and info on cinemas is absent from the district articles. Is this a mistake or is cinema thought to be too mundane for listings? Isn't at least Tennispalatsi worth a listing?


 * –LPfi (talk) 17:16, 12 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Already last year I thought about updating and cleaning up the Helsinki and district articles but I didn't want to start something I might not have time to finish (though as of now I'm tinkering a little with the Central district). Tiketti shouldn't probably be listed, better to lead the readers to the websites of the venues from where they can get to ticket sites if they want to buy tickets. Tavastia is a famous rock club with a long history and should definitely be listed in Kamppi. The Philharmonic would go to the Music house I think (Musiikkitalo in Helsinki/West), and the cruises in Kruununhaka & Katajanokka which I plan to split off Central Helsinki at some point. Ypsilon (talk) 19:01, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Map picture at Helsinki is obsolete
The map picture at the Helsinki article is obsolete. The large purple area shows the northern part of Helsinki and the entire city of Vantaa blended into one area. No such unified area exists in real life as Vantaa is a separate city and the northern part of Helsinki has no special autonomous status. The subarticle about the area was split to Helsinki/Northern suburbs and Vantaa over three and a half years ago. The map picture should be redrawn to show Vantaa in a different colour just like Espoo, or perhaps remove the colouring of Vantaa and Espoo altogether. JIP (talk) 00:36, 2 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Ypsilon, do you still have the original materials for that map? WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:17, 2 March 2022 (UTC)


 * The editable vector file of the map is here: File:Helsinki Capital region map.svg --Ypsilon (talk) 11:19, 5 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Probably quicker to draw a new one, though. --Ypsilon (talk) 11:28, 5 March 2022 (UTC)


 * ✅ --Ypsilon (talk) 20:28, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

Vorschmack authentically Finnish?
In Eat we say:
 * "For something authentically Finnish and uniquely Helsinki, try Vorschmack, an unusual but surprisingly tasty mix of minced lamb and herring, served with chopped pickles and sour cream (smetana)."

The word at least is not Finnish. Is this originally German food imported via the Russian Empire (as the name and description hint)? If it indeed is an authentically Finnish variant, at least a few more words should be used, as this isn't exactly karjalanpaisti. –LPfi (talk) 08:17, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I note, in Helsinki/South: "they still serve some of the dishes that Field Marshal Mannerheim used to order, such as the famous Vorschmack (a comparatively cheap €18)". Is that the only place were you get that dish? If so, is kind of unfair to mention it without giving directions. I don't know whether it deserves mention here; I assume there are several other special dishes across the restaurants. –LPfi (talk) 08:25, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It is mentioned also in helsinki/Kamppi and Southwest: "Try one of the three classics: Vorschmack with duchess potatoes, [...]". –LPfi (talk) 08:28, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Vorschmack is definitely Helsinki but probably not "Finnish", whatever that means. Savoy & Kosmos are the best-known purveyors, but it's available at a few other classy/old-school places as well (Elite, Sea Horse, etc). Jpatokal (talk) 09:18, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * w:Vorschmack says
 * "Vorschmack [...] is an originally East European dish made of salty minced fish or meat. Different variants of this dish are especially common in Ashkenazi Jewish and Finnish cuisine. Some varieties are also known in Ukrainian, Polish and Russian cuisine."
 * I am inclined to believe Wikipedia on this. Helsinki might have imported the tradition with immigrating Jews or from Russia, and I don't know why the dish wouldn't have survived elsewhere (although perhaps not in Saint Petersburg if Finns believe Finland is unique in this respect).
 * –LPfi (talk) 12:45, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Tinder and Jodel
I removed the addition on these apps:
 * "Mobile apps, such as Tinder and Jodel, are currently very popular among single tourists heading to Helsinki. With the help of the applications, you can create contact with locals to seek possible guidance make easier to find the city's popular events and places, or just to make new friendships."

Is that really how you use these apps? Do foreigners know Jodel? And if they are useful specifically for single tourists, does that imply that you really use them to find gender-appropriate company for things not related to tourist guidance?

If the apps really are useful for a tourist to reach people who just want to help or spend time with them, then we should probably put them back, but then "single" probably is irrelevant, and you need some guidance on how to use the apps for such aims.

–LPfi (talk) 13:00, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Northern Katajanokka touristy?
In the description of Helsinki/Kruununhaka and Katajanokka we say:
 * "Possibly the most touristy part of Helsinki, the northern halves of Kruununhaka and Katajanokka are mainly residential."

I think what is intended is "While this district possibly is the most touristy part of Helsinki, the northern halves of Kruununhaka and Katajanokka are mainly residential." Could somebody in the know (Ypsilon?) confirm either way and amend if needed. –LPfi (talk) 14:45, 16 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Yes, it's my writing. It's the southern half of Kruununhaka centered around the cathedral and the Senate Square and two blocks away from them in each direction that's the touristy part, continuing to the east to the southwestern corner of Katajanokka. Northern Kruununhaka and Northern Katajanokka are residential, but they do have a couple of quite "grand" buildings. Ypsilon (talk) 15:36, 16 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Tried to clarify it. Ypsilon (talk) 15:43, 16 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks. –LPfi (talk) 20:07, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Flying to Turku or Tallinn and then catching a coach or ferry, really?
I quote this from Helsinki: "Coming from Europe you may also want to consider flying to the airport of Turku, Lappeenranta or Tallinn as they have some ultra low-cost flights by Ryanair and WizzAir. You can take a ferry from Tallinn or an intercity bus or train from the other two cities."

I find a few things problematic with this:
 * Helsinki IS in Europe; can we not get bogged down with the stereotypical definition of Europe?
 * A lot of the destinations are completely out of the blue. Turku, for example, is over 150 km away, while Lappeenranta is over 200 km away. Couldn't the same be said with any city in southern Finland? What's so different about flying to Turku or Lappeenranta instead of Tampere, for example?
 * Helsinki should only be a brief summary as most of the content is already in Helsinki Airport. This is way too budget traveller-centric and fine-grained to be in this article
 * As I've stated more than umpteen times before, Wikivoyage is for everyone, not just budget travellers; summaries should reflect this.

Any objections before I remove these two sentences outright?

-- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 04:12, 19 December 2022 (UTC)


 * I amended the paragraph somewhat. Helsinki Airport is hardly the place to discuss alternative airports, and some tips for budget travellers aren't off from anybody; this is just one short paragraph. Where should those suggestions go otherwise? The global Flying on a budget? I suppose those three airports at the time of writing had several budget flights (Ryanair withdrew from Tampere some years ago, I don't know the current situation but for Turku). I removed Lappeenranta, as I think they lost their flights too.


 * Turku and Tallinn are 2–4 hours away, which isn't much if the alternative is to transfer at some international hub. Also, many visitors to Helsinki come there to visit Finland in general, without knowing too much about it or its neighbours. I suppose seeing Tallinn and having a sea journey on the way may be a nice experience.


 * –LPfi (talk) 14:02, 19 December 2022 (UTC)


 * You might think of Central Europe when saying "some other city in southern Finland". Except Tampere, what other airports are there? 150 km isn't much for Finland, and closer than that a train will be faster than the plane, so no need for more airports. –LPfi (talk) 14:07, 19 December 2022 (UTC)


 * There aren't that many budget airline destinations to Helsinki, and the text was probably written in the mid-2010s or so when no budget airlines whatsoever flew here.
 * Back then said airports were the only ones in Finland served by budget airlines (and just a couple of destinations). Tallinn (a two hour ferry trip away with around ten ferry departures a day, and the airport 5 km from the port accessible by tram) had and still has notably more budget flights. Ypsilon (talk) 17:38, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Violent crime common in Helsinki?
An IP user added a paragraph on crime. Is violent crime really common in Helsinki, on an international scale?

I also don't think we need to tell what the city or the police has done to combat crime. In Stay safe, it is the results that count. If the measures are very special, they belong in Understand, but I don't think anything that has been done really interests the average visitor, or even any significant subgroup, other than those who come to study the phenomenon and have their own better sources.

–LPfi (talk) 20:06, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


 * On a global scale, most definitely not. Ypsilon (talk) 20:45, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Public transport map should be updated
The public transport map should be updated. Since November 2022, the Länsimetro extension from Matinkylä to Kivenlahti is operational and no longer under construction. JIP (talk) 10:12, 18 September 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ I made an updated version of the map. It will need to be updated again when they get the Rail Joker opened. --Ypsilon (talk) 14:08, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Jokeri light rail
After 4 years of construction, the Jokeri light rail has finally opened today. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with Helsinki's PT system and do not know which articles this needs to be updated in. Could anyone who knows Helsinki's PT better than me update all pages affected by the opening of the LRT line? TIA, -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 11:05, 21 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Should this also be included in the static map? -- SHB2000  (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta) 21:07, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, Ypsilon seems to be occupied off wiki the rest of the year, and I don't know enough about the public transport of the capital region to be much help (I usually move around the centre on foot, and visiting suburbs I take a single line as instructed). –LPfi (talk) 21:14, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It's the Helsinki/Eastern suburbs, Helsinki/Northern suburbs and Espoo. Yes it could be mentioned, even if it goes through parts of the city that have relatively little to see. I could write something about it in a couple of weeks or so. Ypsilon (talk) 19:39, 22 October 2023 (UTC)