Talk:Florida

Vandalism
This article has for some reason become a vandal magnet over the last few weeks. --ϒpsilon (talk) 19:04, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

St. Augustine listed in the "Other destinations" section
But it's a city. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 23:20, 15 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Yes. It shouldn't be listed there. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:07, 16 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Should it replace any of the listed cities? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:08, 16 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Probably, IMHO. It's not notable for its city life, but whenever I've ever been there it's the downtown area that's one of the most popular in the country. So I think it's appropriate in the cities section, maybe replacing Panama City Beach or whatever you think is appropriate. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 05:37, 16 March 2019 (UTC)


 * I don't know Florida well enough to know which city it should replace (if any). Maybe we should do a RFC on this. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:55, 16 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Sure. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 19:10, 16 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks for taking care of that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:10, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! Now we just have to wait for people &mdash; hopefully &mdash; to respond with their thoughts. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 00:27, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I've never been to Florida (except Miami airport), but of the nine cities currently listed, Panama City Beach strikes me as the least famous. —Granger (talk · contribs) 01:20, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I've never been to the Panhandle, so I wasn't sure between Pensacola and Panama City, but the Panama City (Florida) article is so much less developed. Looking at these cities' Wikipedia articles, Panama City had a population of 36,484 in the 2010 Census, whereas Pensacola had 51,923 as part of a metropolitan area of 461,227 (2012 estimate). St. Augustine seems to be smaller than both, though; from St. Augustine, Florida: According to the 2010 census, the city's population was 12,975. The United States Census Bureau's 2013 estimate of the city's population was 13,679, while the urban area had a population of 71,379 in 2012.[9] I don't know what "urban area" means in this context, and the source's link in the article is 404, so I won't find it that way. However, the St. Augustine article is well-developed. It seems like Panama City was neglected because there just isn't that much to say about the place. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:42, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

St. Augustine isn't a large city; it's like Savannah and many other Southern cities that have a long history (St. Augustine goes back to the 1500s)&mdash;it has an oversized downtown compared to the overall population. However, for the tourist, it is the downtown area that counts. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 14:13, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Got it. Note, though, that Savannah had an estimated population of 146,444, with 387,543 in its metropolitan area, in 2017. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:47, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Right, Savannah is larger, but often the cities of Charleston, Savannah, and St. Augustine are grouped together as the great historic (and cultural) cities in the South. If you do a Google Search you'll see that travel guides often do this. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 19:32, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
 * OK, so are those in the know in agreement with moving St. Augustine to "Cities" and bumping Panama City (Florida)? If so, anyone should go ahead and make the change. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:22, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 13:29, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Remove COVID box?
Per edit, I thought afterward it should be done with consensus. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 21:11, 5 June 2021 (UTC)


 * At this point, I think we all understand that COVID is widespread and what precautions exist. Florida's cases are up and down but currently it has one of the country's lowest coronavirus case rates per capita. The COVID box is in place nationally, and I'm not sure there's much a statewide box can add. Additionally the vaccination issue is not in the forefront as of this writing as any traveler to the U.S. and most travelers between U.S. states are vaccinated. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 23:00, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Regions proposal
I've been thinking for some time that our region hierarchy for this state could be improved. Florida isn't easy to divide into regions because it lacks major geographical features, such as inlets and mountain ranges, that form clear geographical regions in other parts of the world. It's flat, and the rivers that exist in the state don't mark significant regional dividing lines. Consequently, a common-sense regional structure has been applied here, with Panhandle, North, Central, South, and Keys as the regions.

This region structure was fairly good for a geographical perspective. Indeed, Florida is typically divided into these geographical regions, for lack of an obvious alternative. However, the flaws soon appear: University of South Florida is in Tampa. We place Tampa in West Central Florida, quite apart from the destinations of South Florida. While we shouldn't use university names to define our regions, the fact the university region scheme doesn't match our own region scheme doesn't reflect well.

From a tourist's perspective, what defines a region is the location of the most important destinations. In Florida, there are a few main destinations: the beach towns of the Atlantic Coast, the beach towns of the Gulf Coast, and the amusement parks of Orlando between the two. I'd suggest we restructure our regions using this classification:


 * Florida Atlantic Coast: from Miami north to Jacksonville consists of almost continuous beaches. All the East Coast counties would be included here
 * Florida Gulf Coast: from Naples/Marco Island to Pensacola. The Panhandle would be a sub-region, as would the Tampa area.
 * Inland Florida: Gainesville (Florida), The Villages, Orlando, and the Florida Heartland.
 * Florida Keys: leave this region intact.

Some regions, particularly counties, could be moved into the new regions. Some counties have few destinations within them and could be moved into South, Central, and Northern of the respective coast. Writing region articles would be easier using the new region structure, as the regions would be cohesive. It's hard to write about a region such as East Central Florida that includes Lake County (Florida), which isn't in the eastern part of the state at all, the major city of Orlando, and coastal counties, areas with nothing in common from the traveler's perspective. However, these new regions would have much in common, and even where differences lie, these are more easily explained than regions that feel as though they are a combination of vastly different counties thrown together because there is nowhere else to place them. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 15:23, 9 October 2021 (UTC)


 * I would strongly support this proposal. I definitely agree that Florida is one of the few exceptions with no geographical barriers, and I too have been wondering about the region hierarchy for some time as well, it was just that I was also driven away about the fact that there's no geographical regions, nor is there any tourist defined regions as well. And Florida is also not like Kansas where its just divided flat bang on rather unusual lines for me (although all of them have a reputation for being very boring, so it's hard to visualize the line).


 * I've also wondered on why are there so many county articles under Florida as well (some which don't contain much interest to travellers), but your proposal seems like the best way to go. SHB2000 (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta.wikimedia) 06:57, 10 October 2021 (UTC)


 * I'm very skeptical about treating Miami and Jacksonville as being in the same region. What's the advantage in that? The proposal is to reduce the number of regions in Florida, one of the most populous and highest-tourism states in the U.S. Why? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:28, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I understand your concern about this, but the problem is, I don’t see much in common between Miami and Naples either. We could divide this into south and north Atlantic Coast at the highest level, increasing the number of regions breadcrumbed under Florida and maintaining greater distinction between the regions. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 10:40, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I need to think about this a little more. What’s the optimal number of subregions for a state? There might be room for slightly different structuring if we can go as high as seven or eight. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 10:49, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * This might be a good basis for a region map, which some tweaking. I’d still go with an “Inland Florida,” but this avoids the problem of putting Miami and Jacksonville in one region. --Comment by [[User:SelfieCity| Selfie City] ( talk |  contributions ) 10:59, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Inland Florida sounds good to me. SHB2000 (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta.wikimedia) 11:04, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes on that map as a good starting point and yes on differentiating inland from the coast, but I think southern and northern inland areas may merit their own regions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:05, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * True. I'm thinking that the subregions of inland Florida could be north, Florida Heartland, and Greater Orlando. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 14:37, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Per above, proposed (revised) regions (* are high level regions, ** are subregions):


 * First Coast &mdash; Northeast Florida, minus Putnam and Baker Counties
 * Volusia County
 * Space Coast
 * Treasure Coast
 * Rename Florida Gold Coast to Greater Miami
 * Florida Keys
 * West Coast of Florida
 * Southwest Florida
 * Tampa Bay Area
 * Pinellas County
 * Hillsborough County (Florida)
 * Manatee County
 * Big Bend Coast &mdash; Dixie, Levy, Taylor, Citrus, Hernando, and Pasco Counties
 * Florida Panhandle
 * Inland Florida
 * Florida Heartland
 * Greater Orlando
 * North Central Florida, plus Putnam County
 * Polk County (Florida)

This is nine regions by my count, which is a large number but not overwhelming. I think these regions are more cohesive than the current regions. I don't think Volusia is justified as a higher-level region, but I can't find any other place to categorize it. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 15:57, 10 October 2021 (UTC)


 * This looks good to me. Note that it's Florida Gold Coast that you'd be renaming; Gold Coast is treated as a region in Australia, but perhaps it should be a disambig page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:58, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Gold Coast, Qld is the 6th largest city in Australia as well as the largest non-capital city in Australia, and is also discrictified. There's already Gold Coast (disambiguation) though. SHB2000 (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta.wikimedia) 02:23, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I’ve changed that title in the above list accordingly. Now I can start on the region map. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 11:27, 11 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Here's my regions map. It was hard to make enough different colors for the map, particularly as the sub-regions have shades of their region's color. They are based on the colors found at United States of America. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 00:10, 13 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Looks good to me. SHB2000 (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta.wikimedia) 00:13, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, barring further input within the next day or so, I'll start the district process, first with a cleanup of the map. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 21:31, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Florida Static Map.png have added Florida's static map of the regions to this talk page. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 17:20, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Very small thing, but when I was in Sarasota, they talked about the "Florida West Coast," not the "West Coast of Florida," and that's shorter, so should we use it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:21, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Sure. I was between whether to put Florida first or after, and I'd agree to changing the name to the shorter title. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 22:26, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Ditto as well. I've also always called it "Florida West Coast". SHB2000 (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta.wikimedia) 22:44, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅. I wonder if we could promote Big Bend Coast, Tampa Bay Area, and Southwest Florida to first-level region status, and make Florida West Coast an extraregion. Do you guys think this would create too many regions? --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 19:00, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

New discussion July 2022
I realize I'm a bit late to the discussion here, but I'm a bit puzzled at the "Inland" region of Florida. It seems odd to me to lump the large areas north and south of the Orlando region in with Orlando while excluding other destinations that are frequently visited by Central Florida travelers. It's much more common to visit Cape Canaveral (or Port Canaveral) or Tampa in conjunction with a visit to the Orlando theme parks than it is to visit Ocala or Gainesville... isn't it? Powers (talk) 20:33, 15 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Few people from any region visit Ocala or Gainesville, as neither are tourist towns, except for the university in Gainesville. And while people travel from one region of Florida to another, as you mention, that doesn't mean the destinations on their itinerary have any common features. Port Canaveral is similar to towns along the Space Coast, but quite unlike Orlando as a whole. Florida's geography makes traveling to regions quite different from one another relatively easy in terms of barriers such as mountains.
 * Also, the places you mention above (Disney, Port Canaveral) are the "whirlwind" tourist stops people visit who come from either the Northern U.S. or abroad and don't have time to travel Florida more comprehensively. The "whirlwind" sites are listed in the Florida article. Not all tourists have only a few days on their schedule and are trying to cram the major sites because they have a long itinerary and limited time.
 * If we revert to the old region hierarchy, we find St. Augustine placed within North Florida even though no tourist in St Augustine is going to travel to the inland parts of North Florida. St. Augustine is far more like Palm Coast, Ormond, and New Smyrna to the south through its cultural influences and tourist appeal, and most closely related to the areas immediately surrounding it in the First Coast. Likewise, while Naples and Miami are both in South Florida, they're totally different from each other because they're separated by the Everglades, which are far larger and more significant than they appear on a U.S. map. Keep in mind that driving from one end of the state to the other is probably a good 12 hours, so even the smallest regions on this map aren't small by New England or British standards.
 * For an example of where regions are divided, take California. We have separate regions for the Gold Country and the Sierra Nevada even though anyone visiting the Gold Country is bound to also visit the Sierra Nevada. However, the two regions are culturally and geographically distinct, so we separate them. All it takes for travelers to visit the next destination on their list is to scroll to "go next" and click the next region they're going it to visit.
 * As for "Inland Florida," that region is divided into regions including Greater Orlando and North Central Florida that were simply too compact and too many colors to show on the map. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 15:55, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

KSC
Should Kennedy Space Center be the ninth other destination? Per wv:7+2, it can be added and I'm surprised that a destination that attracts tourists and space buffs from all over the world isn't listed as an OD in its relevant jurisdiction article. -- SHB2000 (talk &#124; contribs &#124; meta.wikimedia) 13:02, 8 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a good idea to me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:19, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I think it is not listed there because it was not an article until less than two years ago, when you created it. That decision definitely helped in the organization of the surrounding region's articles, and I support adding it as the ninth destination in "other destinations."
 * If the up-to-date SVG file of the map is available, I should add the KSC to the map, as well, below Canaveral National Seashore. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 16:47, 8 June 2022 (UTC)