Talk:Denver

Untitled
Contrary to popular belief Denver is not "that high". While it is truly the "Mile High City" (as in 5280 feet above sea level) there are many, many locations in Colorado that are considerably higher in altitude (more than twice and some approaching three times higher than Denver). It is always good to acclimate yourself to altitude before undertaking strenuous travel (such as hiking, backpacking and skiing) and for that Denver is an excellent starting point.

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Original text of Red Rocks Amphitheater was:

"Located in Morrison, Colorado, on the western edge of Denver, Red Rocks Amphitheater is a gorgeous outdoor concert venue with amazing natural beauty and providing a great view of Denver below. Its popularity has been aided (and no doubt the effect is mutual) by famous live recordings of concerts by popular bands U2 and Dave Mathews Band at this location. The acoustics are the best of any outdoor venue I've experienced, with crystal-clear vocals and sibilant sounds being audible from any seat, without harshness."

--(WT-en) Nils 20:38, 25 Mar 2004 (EST)

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Organization of the Drinks section. I've recently posted a few bars that I frequent, but am going to reorganize them. I didn't have time to put a description up yet, but will get to that later, when I have a chance. I'd like to reorganize them based on geography (as, frequently, a lot of people go to an 'area', instead of a particular bar in the downtown area. Maybe a street map type setup, with the bars located on a particular street visually represented, so that patrons can judge where they want to go based on the types and quantities of bars in a given area?

--(WT-en) rkausch 14:51, 25 Oct 2006 (EST)

Weather & the informal tone
after all, this is the city where the saying, "If you don't like the weather, wait 10 minutes," was coined). This is in the article, what is the source? Everyone says this about everywhere. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 209.144.55.6 (talk • contribs)


 * No source is necessary; in fact, it is Wikivoyage policy to never source&mdash;it's a travel guide, not an encyclopedia. It certainly sounds like a myth to me, but regardless, I think the expression applies well to Denver. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 16:23, 5 June 2007 (EDT)


 * As well as the expression applies to Denver, I think it's fair to question whether the myth of it originating here is true. We may not need encyclopedic proof, but I took it out because I think it strains credulity. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 17:11, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

" Outdoor Enthusiasts Rejoice"?
I have my doubts this section should exist. Outdoor recreation stuff should go under "Do". (WT-en) PerryPlanet 04:17, 2 August 2007 (EDT)


 * I don't know, this is actually fairly useful information for a climate section, in that it tells travelers when to go. The rest of that huge climate section (a nightmare for avid skimmers like me) could, I think, be reduced to one paragraph and in such parsimonious form would be more helpful. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 04:24, 2 August 2007 (EDT)

dt dvr map
Hiya! I was just thinking/lookin' at the Downtown Denver map, which is beautiful, but I think it is missing some things that could be added:


 * Larimer Square - just highlight where the shopping takes place in a colour and label it.


 * Cherry Shopping Area - similar to the above.


 * Any missing hotels?

I know, a small list, but I may add more later. So yeah. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee talk 19:23, 5 November 2008 (EST).

Clothing Boutique Listings
There were several listings added to this article today that are simply names of clothing boutiques and links to their web sites - without further information about why these links are here I'm not sure that this information improves the article and would suggest that we might be better off without them. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 18:27, 9 November 2008 (EST)


 * Just to re-iterate the concerns above, Walgreens and Bath & Body Works probably aren't appropriate here. Without checking I'd guess there are probably a dozen WalGreens in Denver, and it's tough to imagine travelers going to Denver in order to visit Bath & Body Works... I'm not seeing how these listings improve the article, but others may feel differently. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 20:12, 9 November 2008 (EST)


 * Hey Ryan! I just added most of those and added basic info-I'll add the listing later or if someone else wants to.  No people aren't going to go to Denver just to see B&BW, but it may be something they stop in and see-there are a lot of savy fans of that store.  Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee  talk 20:16, 9 November 2008 (EST).
 * Also, don't generalize them all as boutiques. Some of them are regular stores.  Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee  talk 20:17, 9 November 2008 (EST).


 * I removed three listings. There is a Walgreen's or similar store in every small town in the US and most cities over 100,000 have a Sally Beauty Supply and a Bath and Body Works. The point is not that some people like or don't like these stores. There is just simply no reason to recommend them and no point in mentioning them. They have no more to do with Denver than Wal-mart or McDonalds. I am personally not familiar with the other listings that were added, but if they are as common as the ones I removed, I'd like to see them blasted too. (WT-en) Texugo 23:23, 9 November 2008 (EST)
 * Sorry I get it. I didn't think Sally Beauty Supply was  a chain.  Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee  talk 23:30, 9 November 2008 (EST).


 * I've removed the newly added listings for now - many of them were somewhat questionable, and without descriptions there was no way for users to know anything aboutthe establishments without going to the web sites. If necessary the listings can be restored from the article history, but let's make sure that there are descriptions so that we are telling users why they should care about these establishments, rather than just giving a yellow pages style list. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 22:17, 10 November 2008 (EST)


 * So they're back, with one sentence descriptions... I guess what I'm struggling with is why were these particular stores chosen? The descriptions aren't really giving me any sense of why these stores are listed as opposed to any of the thousands of others in Denver.  EE, are you particularly familiar with Denver, and thus chose these places for a reason?  What I'm concerned with is that anyone can Google stores in a large city and come up with a list of 20-30, but that makes us the yellow pages, not a travel guide.  Google is great for looking up things like major shopping malls, but it takes local knowledge to put together a list of individual businesses that will interest travelers or provide them with necessary services (by "necessary services" I'm thinking of destination-specific needs, such as the winter supply stores listed in an article like Ushuaia).  Apologies if you have lived in Denver, but if not then it just seems like we're throwing a random list of stores on the page and I'm still not sure that the article is better for having them there... -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 00:58, 11 November 2008 (EST)


 * I've removed these again. If they must be revived let's first discuss on the talk page. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 14:04, 22 November 2008 (EST)


 * Ryan, hey, I've never been to Denver. I really like the city so what I ended up doing is doing massive searches for fashionable stores in the core of Denver that had good reviews.  I didn't make them random-I made sure they looked fine, selled good stuff, and had good reviews.  all the ones I added met that.  A bunch of it was on Google but a bunch of it was on shopping mall websites (non chains) except a few, some I didn't know were a chain.  Appologies.  Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee]  .T.A.L.K. 14:10, 22 November 2008 (EST).
 * Also I made those listings myself, thank you for deleting them all. Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee]  .T.A.L.K. 14:12, 22 November 2008 (EST).


 * You're welcome; please stop taking feedback so personally. One of the explicit non-goals of Wikivoyage, established when the site was founded, is to NOT be a yellow pages.  Adding ten stores to an article about a city that contains tens of thousands of businesses based solely on the fact that they sell expensive clothing and furniture does not seem like a way to improve the travel guide - as a traveler to Denver I would have no interest in these stores, but WOULD be interested in knowing about the major shopping districts and a small sample of truly unique or representative establishments.  That sentiment is not just my opinion, however - it is reflected in the Project:Huge city article template and Project:The traveler comes first guidelines that have been established over years of consensus-building among contributors.  Writing a travel guide does not mean capturing every single item that might be of interest to travelers, it means capturing the interesting and essential information into an organized format that is useful. -- (WT-en) Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 15:10, 22 November 2008 (EST)


 * You don't need to be an ass about it! I am not making it a yellow pages directory thanks.  Maybe you just aren't the average demographic for Denver, then, and, they aren't all expensive, quit being prejudice.  Those places are unique-Bath and Body Works, Sears, Barnes and Noble, Childrens Place, HMV, Target, Walmart, those are unoriginal.  I am not trying to get every little thing, but I am trying to get stuff that cateres to everyone.  Aye, you seem grumpy!  Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee]  .T.A.L.K. 15:15, 22 November 2008 (EST).


 * I don't feel that he's being an ass at all. He has a legitimate point and was not rude in expressing it, nothing to do with "prejudice". I happen to agree with him. (WT-en) Texugo 02:42, 23 November 2008 (EST)

Districts
Any plans to district Denver? There's a huge drink list that would benefit from being broken up. The hotel list is long too&mdash;I'd go through and trim out about half of those, but if we plan to break the city into districts at some point, I suppose it would be better to hold on to them. For future reference, the city is broken into nicely defined official neighborhoods: wmc:File:Denveneighborhoods.gif --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:34, 17 April 2009 (EDT)


 * Hmmm...I would say let's hold off on this for now. It seems that the majority of the See/Do and Drink listings, along with a healthy portion of the Eat and Sleep listings are in the downtown area, so breaking it down at this point might make some rather skewed articles in terms of a balance between See/Do, Eat, Sleep, etc. I mean, Albuquerque is longer than the Denver article, and that's a place which definitely shouldn't be broken down into districts at this point. (WT-en) PerryPlanet Talk 14:31, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

Bars on Colfax (re. Charlies)
I removed the homophobic language "Charlies is a gay bar, but not scary" (!!), and replaced it with factual information about its music and drink offerings.

Sleep listings
What's the best thing to do with the Yellow Pages-style mass of undescribed hotel listings? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:55, 2 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think the length is a problem for a city of this size, which probably should be districted anyway. Quality is a concern, though, so maybe we could dump a bunch of the more useless ones here for now? --Peter Talk 22:51, 2 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree. I've been to Denver a couple of times, but I don't know which hotels are least useful to list. I'm tempted to delete all listings that have no description or rates, but that may go too far right now. The Albuquerque article, which was mentioned above, has descriptions for all hotels, so its "Sleep" section looks much better. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:22, 2 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh, by dump I mean right in this thread on the talk page, by the way. I think removing everything without rates or description is the way to go. --Peter Talk 23:31, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Lively, probably inappropriate prose
It probably wouldn't be appropriate for our article, but here's an excerpt from an interview with local comedian Greg Baumhauer:
 * Denver is basically a truck stop with a couple of museums and a football team... Denver is where pioneers who just ate their families on the trail would stop to drink whiskey and go whoring.

That was said lovingly, but still I guess we couldn't put that up as the lede. At least that's the impression I got from having my Bum Island See listing removed ;) --Peter Talk 23:17, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

January 1st 2014 Marijuana Legalization
25 days from this writing, recreational marijuana shops will be legal under Colorado and Denver law. To prevent a possible edit war, let's start discussing the issue now. Questions needing to be answered:
 * Should we add a "Smoke" section after "Eat" and "Drink"?
 * Is it possibly irresponsible to add a section that suggests a traveler partake in a federally illegal activity, even though it is legal locally?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts. --WikiTryHardDieHard (talk) 03:40, 6 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure we even need a special section for smoking marijuana on the Denver page when we already have one on the Colorado page, unless there's some significant difference between the Denver law and the Colorado law that would affect visitors. —The preceding comment was added by PerryPlanet (talk • contribs)
 * My thoughts are more along the line of the actual shops i.e. XYZ Marijuana shop, 123 Main Street, 8am-10pm, moderate prices, etc. --WikiTryHardDieHard (talk) 19:08, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Well in that case, you can just put them in Buy, perhaps in a sub-section if there's enough listings to justify it (I'd venture at least 4-5, but there's no specific number for these sorts of things). PerryPlanet (talk) 20:25, 6 December 2013 (UTC)


 * As for the question of responsibility, I'd say this depends entirely on what the federal response will be. My impression was that growers and sellers would be more at risk of being apprehended by federal agents than some visitor possessing a joint. Unless significant risk is posed to visitors, I don't think it's irresponsible to mention methods to purchase it. PerryPlanet (talk) 04:40, 6 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Did you mean January 1st 2014? Andrewssi2 (talk) 04:54, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes I did. I changed it in the title. --WikiTryHardDieHard (talk) 18:55, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Alternative banner for this article?
In the Hebrew Wikivoyage we are currently using this banner instead of the one which is currently used here. Do you think too that this banner would would better than the existing one? ויקיג&#39;אנקי (talk) 02:35, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Existng one is better, because it shows a unique view, while the proposed new one is just a non-descript city view that evokes little. Texugo (talk) 02:47, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll second Texugo's opinion. PerryPlanet (talk) 03:01, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I generally agree, too. The new one is a good panorama, but the great building in it - the Capitol - is distant. A panorama that focused on the Capitol would likely get a different reaction from me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:48, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I prefer the existing banner. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 19:49, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Current banner Matroc (talk) 03:14, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Preparing for DotM nom
I like Denver, and this would be a nice article to feature on the front page, and one with a versatile "time to feature", given that Denver is pleasant in the summer and is also active during the winter skiing season.

So what needs improvement? Here's what I notice:

(1) A lot of the "Drink" listings need geo. (2) Listings should be thoroughly checked and updated.

Anything else? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:16, 5 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I know little about Denver, but I have heard that there have been quite impressive investments in public transit of all sorts in recent years. We should definitely check how much of that is reflected by our coverage. Also, SEO edits can never harm. Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:38, 5 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I visited in 2007 and 2008. Excellent bus system, free shuttle bus for tourists in LoDo, really good light rail system that ran late (last train was after 2, I think), but more for travel to and from the suburbs than anything else. I wouldn't know what new developments there have been since my last visit. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:36, 5 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Por ejemplo: http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2017/01/30/rtd-to-open-the-r-line-through-aurora-in-february.html Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:47, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Denver Airport
Has just been created. If it is not a good idea to have this article, we can merge it back, but I'd give it about a year before we do that. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:30, 5 March 2017 (UTC)