Talk:Cleveland

Disambiguation
The disambiguation of "Cleveland" is ludicrous. Has anyone measured the traffic to "Cleveland" sites. This extra step to get to the 14th largest market in the US is annoying to Wikivoyage users. What do we have to do to reverse this decision???

I think Cleveland, Ohio should be listed at Cleveland, since it's by far the most well-known Cleveland. --(WT-en) Evan 14:35, 19 Oct 2005 (EDT)


 * But quoting from the naming conventions page:


 * 4. As an exception, if one place is so famous that the disambiguation is a hindrance rather than a help, it remains without a disambiguating parenthesized suffix. Examples: Paris is the capital of France, Paris (Texas) is a nice little prairie town in the US. Los Angeles refers to the large metropolitan area in southern California, and Los Angeles (Chile) refers to the mid-sized town south of Santiago. Peru is the country in South America; Peru (Indiana) is a town in the American Midwest.
 * The last exception here is a rare one. If there's a reasonable chance that people might be confused, use the disambiguators.


 * "The last exception is a rare one..." seems to say to me that when in doubt, disambiguate. I agree that Cleveland, Tennessee isn't anything amazing or wonderful, but it seems like I've seen plenty of other disambiguation pages that didn't live up to the rule you seem to want to apply here.  Ontario for example - the province of Canada is considerably more well-known.  Why disambiguate then?  Am I just misunderstanding rule number 2?  You always disambiguate when they are geographically seperate not matter how well-known one might be?


 * I don't mean to be confrontational, I just want to make sure I understand the dismabiguation process... -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 15:40, 19 Oct 2005 (EDT)


 * It's a fine-grained one, I understand. As you can see on Talk:Ontario (province), there's some debate whether the other main Ontario (a town in Orange County, mostly known for its airport) is sufficiently well known to cause any confusion. --(WT-en) Evan 15:59, 19 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Web directory
Copied from Talk:Cleveland (disambiguation):

This is pretty cool, but it'd be nice to see some more information pertinent to travellers. -- (WT-en) Evan 19:19, 5 Sep 2003 (PDT)


 * I agree with myself. This has turned out to be a very nice Web directory for all things Cleveland, and a terrible travel guide. Does anyone more familiar with Cleveland want to get in here and get a real article started? I'm starting to think that the best thing to do is tear this whole edifice of directorydom down and start anew. -- (WT-en) Evan 08:38, 17 Nov 2003 (PST)


 * I dont know from Cleveland, but took a stab at making it a little more wikivoyage-ish. (WT-en) Majnoona


 * Thanks. Good example; I should have just plunged forward and started following some of those links. -- (WT-en) Evan 12:31, 17 Nov 2003 (PST)

Grew up in Cleveland, will try and add some information on here. Added the Cleveland sports teams to the page, will try and beef up the overall content. -- (WT-en) David 22 Mar 2005

Image
I literally just went to the top floor of my dorm and took the picture currently on the site, and as a result it's not the best. Anyone got a better one? (WT-en) Andromeda321 00:42, 26 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Information moved from main article.
''The information below was moved from the main article because it applied to more than just Cleveland. The information about the city of Cleveland's schools has been left in the article, but all the other information should be moved to their respective county or city pages.'' -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 09:50, 26 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Learn
Northeast Ohio's network of 55 colleges and universities comprises the second largest concentration of educational institutions in the nation (after New York City). Outstanding university and vocational training programs, coupled with exceptional liberal arts colleges, provide abundant educational opportunities.

Northeast Ohio offers a variety of educational institutions. Among the area's colleges and universities are:

City of Cleveland Case Western Reserve University Cleveland State University David N. Myers College, Cleveland Ohio College of Podiatric Medicine, Cleveland Cleveland Institute of Art Capital University, Cleveland Center Cuyahoga Community College, Cleveland

Cuyahoga County Baldwin-Wallace College, Berea Cleveland College of Jewish Studies, Beachwood John Carroll University, University Heights Notre Dame College of Ohio, South Euclid Ursuline College, Pepper Pike

Summit County University of Akron University of Akron Community Technical College

Portage County Kent State University, Kent Hiram College, Hiram Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine, Rootstown

Lake County Lake Erie College, Painesville Lakeland Community College, Willoughby

Lorain County Oberlin College, Oberlin Lorain County Community College

Stark County Malone College, Canton Mount Union College, Alliance Kent State University Stark Campus Stark State College of Technology, Canton Walsh University, North Canton

Mahoning County Youngstown State University YSU College of Health Human Services

Columbiana County Allegheny Wesleyan College, Salem Kent State University East Liverpool Campus Kent State University Salem Campus

Trumbull County Kent State University Trumbull Campus, Warren

Wayne County The College of Wooster

''The "other" may have some that belong to Cleveland, but I'm unsure at this point. -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 14:05, 28 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Work

 * Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company Akron $14.7 Rubber
 * FirstEnergy Akron $12.3 Utilities
 * Progressive Corporation Mayfield Heights $11.8 Insurance
 * International Steel Group, Inc. Richfield $4.0 Steel
 * Timken Canton $3.7 Alloy Steel

Other Large Employers
More employment opportunities in Cuyahoga County include:
 * American Greetings Corp
 * Case Western Reserve University
 * Continental Airlines
 * Ford Motor Co
 * General Motors Corp
 * ICI-Glidden Paints
 * Lincoln Electric Co
 * MNBA America Bank
 * SBC Communications

Churches, etc moved from Main Article
''The below appear all to be in the Greater Cleveland area and not the city of Cleveland itself. I also moved them because the list was absolutely huge and would like be unwieldy to a traveller. A representative selection is probably best. -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 14:17, 28 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Assemblies of God

 * Bethel Temple Assembly of God, Parma
 * First Assembly of God, Lyndhurst
 * Rockside Church, Independence

Baptist

 * Bethlehem Baptist Church, Orange
 * Cleveland Baptist Church, Cleveland www.clevelandbaptist.org
 * Cornerstone Bible Fellowship, North Olmsted
 * Columbia Road Baptist Church, North Olmsted www.crbc-online.org
 * First Baptist Church of Greater Cleveland, Shaker Heights
 * Grace Baptist Church, Westlake
 * Harmony Baptist Church, Old Brooklyn
 * Lakewood Baptist Church
 * NorthCoast Baptist Church, Lakewood
 * Parma Heights Baptist Church
 * Pathway Institutional Baptist Church, Maple Heights
 * Warrensville Road Community Baptist Church, Maple Heights
 * WestShore Community Church, Westlake

Catholic

 * Holy Cross Church, Euclid
 * Holy Spirit Byzantine, Parma
 * St. Adalbert, Berea
 * St. Bartholomew, Middleburg Heights
 * St. Brendan Online, North Olmsted
 * St. Christopher, Rocky River
 * St. Clement, Lakewood
 * St. Felicitas, Euclid
 * St. James, Lakewood St. John Neumann, Strongsville
 * St. Mary of the Falls, Olmsted Falls
 * St. Peter & Paul, Garfield Heights
 * St. Thomas More, Brooklyn

Christian (DOC)

 * Euclid Avenue Christian Church, Cleveland Heights

Church of Christ

 * Hope Christian Church, Westlake

Church of God

 * Lakeview Church of God, Parma
 * Brecksville Church of God of Prophecy

Congregational

 * Lakewood Congregational Church
 * Olmsted Community Church

Episcopal

 * All Saints Episcopal Church, Parma
 * Christ Episcopal Church, Shaker Heights
 * Church of the Ascension, Lakewood
 * St. Paul's Episcopal Church, Cleveland Heights
 * St. Paul's Episcopal Church, East Cleveland
 * St. Peter's Episcopal Church, Lakewood

Evangelical Covenant

 * Bethany Covenant Church, Lyndhurst

Foursquare Gospel

 * Eagle Rock Church, Westlake
 * Lakewood Foursquare Chapel

Friends

 * North Olmsted Evangelical Friends Church

Grace Brethren

 * Southern Hills Community Church, Strongsville

Hindu Vedic

 * Greater Cleveland Shiva Vishnu Temple, Parma

Jewish

 * Congregation Shaarey Tikvah, Beachwood
 * Heights Jewish Center Synagogue
 * Kol Chadash, Solon

Lutheran

 * Bethel Lutheran Church, Middleburg Heights
 * Bethlehem Lutheran Church, Cleveland Heights
 * Bethlehem Lutheran Church, Parma
 * Christ the Redeemer Lutheran Church, Brecksville
 * Faith Lutheran Church, Lakewood
 * First Evangelical Lutheran Church, Strongsville
 * Grace Lutheran Church, Cleveland Heights
 * Hope Lutheran Church, Cleveland Heights
 * Lutheran Church of the Good Shepherd, Brooklyn
 * Messiah Lutheran Church, Fairview Park
 * St. John Lutheran Church, South Euclid
 * St. Peter's Lutheran Church, Shaker Heights
 * Trinity Lutheran Church, ELCA, Lakewood
 * Valley Lutheran Church, LCMS, Chagrin Falls

Mennonite

 * Friendship Mennonite Church, Bedford Heights

Nazarene

 * Bedford Church of the Nazarene
 * Garfield Heights Church of the Nazarene
 * Westlake Parkside Nazarene Church, Westlake

Nondenominational

 * Christ the King, North Olmsted
 * Church on the Rise, Bay Village
 * First Cyberchurch, Berea
 * Grace Church, North Olmsted (www.gcno.org)
 * Old Oak Bible Church, Middleburg Heights
 * The Rock of Lakewood
 * Worldview Community Church, Olmsted Falls

Orthodox

 * St. Andrew Church, Maple Heights
 * St. Gregorios Indian Orthodox Church, Cleveland
 * Christ the Saviour American Orthodox Church, North Royalton
 * Holy Trinity Orthodox Church, Parma
 * Mar Gregorios Indian Orthodox Church, Cleveland
 * St. Sergius Russian Orthodox Cathedral, Parma
 * St. Michael's Orthodox Church, Broadview Heights
 * St. Theodosius Cathedral,Cleveland
 * St. E. Premte Orthodox Church, Cleveland
 * St. Mary Romanian Orthodox Cathedral, Cleveland
 * SS. Peter and Paul Church, Lakewood
 * Saints Constantine & Helen Cathedral, Cleveland
 * Annunciation Church, Cleveland
 * St. John of Kronstandt Church, Cleveland
 * St. Vladimirs Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral, Parma
 * Saint George Antiochian Orthodox, Cleveland
 * St. Mark's Coptic Orthodox Church, Seven Hills
 * St Nicholas Orthodox Church, Cleveland
 * St. Paul's Greek Orthodox Church, North Royalton
 * St. Sava Serbian Orthodox Cathedral, Parma

Pentecostal

 * First United Pentecostal Church of Parma
 * Fairmount Presbyterian Church

Presbyterian

 * Forest Hill Church, Presbyterian
 * Grace Presbyterian Church, Lakewood
 * Lakewood Presbyterian Church
 * Noble Road Presbyterian Church, Cleveland Heights
 * Parma-South Presbyterian Church
 * Pioneer Memorial Presbyterian Church, Solon
 * St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church, Olmsted Falls

Unitarian

 * First Unitarian Church, Shaker Heights
 * Olmsted Unitarian Universalist Church, North Olmsted
 * Southwest Unitarian Universalist Church, Berea
 * West Shore Unitarian Universalist Church, Rocky River

United Church of Christ

 * Church of the Redeemer, Westlake
 * First United Church of Christ, Lakewood
 * Middleburg Heights Community Church
 * Plymouth Church, Shaker Heights

United Methodist

 * Berea United Methodist Church
 * Brecksville United Methodist Church
 * Church of the Saviour, Cleveland Heights
 * East Shore Church, Euclid
 * Garfield Memorial United Methodist Church, Pepper Pike
 * Lakewood United Methodist Church
 * Maple Heights United Methodist Church (www.mapleheightsumc.com)
 * Mayfield United Methodist Church Mentor United Methodist Church
 * North Royalton United Methodist Church
 * Pleasant Hills United Methodist Church, Middleburg Heights
 * Ridgewood United Methodist Church, Parma
 * Rockport United Methodist Church, Rocky River
 * Solon United Methodist Church
 * Strongsville United Methodist Church
 * Westlake United Methodist Church

Cleveland advertising?
The introduction to this article reads like a travel brochure produced by the city government. "Come and see for yourself"? A "world class" city? What the hell is that about? Can someone who knows something about Cleveland who isn't an idiot advertising agent change the introduction?


 * As a big Cleveland supporter and fan, I would admit I agree. It reads a bit like a travel brochure. 'Most golf courses per capita' should go in Do; '2nd in recreational options' to Do as well; 'fifth in number in number in the nation of major cultural resources' to Understand. NYC, Chicago, Tokyo, etc. could really brag--but they don't 'brag' in the opener. NYC's as of 10/29/09: New York (also referred to as "New York City", "NYC", "The Big Apple", or just "the City"), is the biggest city in the United States. It lies at the mouth of the Hudson River in the southernmost part of the state, which is part of the Mid-Atlantic region of the USA.


 * The New York Metropolitan Area spans parts of three states—lower New York, northern New Jersey, and southwestern Connecticut. It is the USA's largest metro area, with a population of 18.7 million. As of 2007, it was 5th in the world, after Tokyo, Sao Paulo, Mexico City and Seoul.


 * New York City is a center for media, culture, food, fashion, art, research, finance, and trade. It has one of the largest and most famous skylines on earth, dominated by the iconic Empire State Building.


 * A change is needed!(WT-en) Zepppep 16:09, 29 October 2009 (EDT)


 * Well, for starters, it's supposed to sound like a travel brochure. That's what this is!  =)  (WT-en) LtPowers 18:48, 29 October 2009 (EDT)


 * Not sure who the first "poster" was LT, but although his/her lang. may be a bit harsh, I would have to agree.

While certainly there's no judge of which city is better, New York City, Chicago and Los Angeles all have their own flavor of intro. and all do a less-over-the-top job of describing their city's unique charm better than Cleveland. I know Cleveland gets a lot of crap from its 70s-80s image and they've done a lot to turn that around, and I know they may get a lot of crap from folks further east of them (New Yorkers?) because some people somehow think "smaller is worse," but I would still have to agree with the original "poster's" statement it sounds directly from the Cleveland Tourist Board or something like that. Still, however, that's not my MAIN point.

I still think some "facts" from different magazines would be better suited to Understand, Sports, and Do. Take a look at Pittsburgh, a city often compared with Cleveland, which I might dare say has more of their article (particularly district articles) developed than C-land.My two cents' worth...maybe others have an opinion?(WT-en) Zepppep 12:20, 2 November 2009 (EST)


 * Well, if you think it's overdone, fix it. =)  Not sure what else I can say.  (WT-en) LtPowers 14:05, 2 November 2009 (EST)

Districts
I brought this up once before but Cleveland is an exceptionally confusing to city to navigate (personal experience) and I really think breaking Cleveland into districts would be wise. I'm don't know a whole lot about the Cleveland area except the Flats district is known for the bars and strip clubs, there's another hip district called the Warehouse District, University Circle, and a downtown. Would anyone more well versed in the area know of any additional districts? -- (WT-en) Sapphire 00:26, 3 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Despite living in Cleveland for fourteen years I'm not totally sure what the best districts would be. Perhaps East Side, West Side and Downtown?  University Circle might be a good district, but it's a small part of the East Side and I think it's clearer to just make the whole thing one district.  Thus the East Side would include University Circle, Little Italy, Shaker Square, etc.  The Downtown would include the Flats, and the West Side would include things like the West Side Market, the Zoo, etc.  You probably want to solicit opinions from other Clevelanders though to see if they have any ideas. -- (WT-en) Ryan 01:06, 3 October 2006 (EDT)
 * Thanks. I'll create any questionable districts in my sandbox and then merge them into the proper districts later.  Where does the Warehouse District fall? -- (WT-en) Sapphire 01:08, 3 October 2006 (EDT)


 * That's down by Jacob's Field, right? I moved in 1998, and at that time the area was still being redeveloped.  Anyhow, if that's right then it would be downtown. -- (WT-en) Ryan 01:12, 3 October 2006 (EDT)
 * I think it's just south of Jacob's Field. Also, should Tremont get it's own district or would a South Side suffice? -- (WT-en) Sapphire 01:15, 3 October 2006 (EDT)


 * It would probably be best to get someone else's opinion. My preference is that cities not be split into too many districts, and since the Flats, Jacobs Field, Tremont, etc are all within a mile or two of Terminal Tower I'd say they're all the same district.  However, there are some advantages to using more specific districts, and if that's done then you could split downtown into the east side of the river (downtown) and the west side (flats), and create other districts for distinct areas like University Circle.
 * Alright, I'll send an email to the CVB there. I'll be up that area in a few days and try to swing down to Cleveland and do some scouting. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 01:26, 3 October 2006 (EDT)

Native Clevelander here! I just discovered this site yesterday and colored in some more detail, especially for the West Side, although I have to admit some of it might be better split off into some other sections since some of the items are in the suburbs.

In old-fashioned Cleveland tradition, I am not sure of the idea of including Tremont and Ohio City in with Downtown, as they used to be separate cities a hundred years ago and really have very distinct identities.

The 'South Side' idea is probably misleading, because we locals just don't see a 'south' side, because all we think about is whether its West or East of the Cuyahoga River.

As far as districts downtown, I can create a map to show where the districts start and end. There are several districts there, and they all seem to be listed in the Cleveland Wikipedia article.

I'd love to see this article tell a story about Cleveland that makes any newcomer feel like they could blend right in with the locals, I'd be interested in how that sits with everyone...

Another thing I'd be interested in opinions on is how to tell travelers about Cleveland without spilling out into the suburbs--since a large chunk of Cleveland life really happens in the suburbs, even if you live in the city itself, should we talk about the suburbs here--or split them into separate 'suburban districts' and have them on seperate pages? (An example would be "The Westshore Suburbs", which is generally accepted by locals as Bay Village, Westlake, North Olmsted, Rocky River, Fairview Park & Lakewood.)

If I were to break Cleveland & Western Cuyahoga County down for this site, it would probably look like this:
 * Downtown - I think there is enough there to talk about for one page within the area formed by the Lake, the River, and the Innerbelt (I-90).
 * University Circle - There's an awful lot chocked into one area here that could take almost a week to see. The Cleveland Clinic Campus and University Hospitals should probably be included too.
 * West Side - This would be everything west of the River in only the city (such as the Airport, the IX Center, the Zoo, Ohio City, Tremont, Old Brooklyn, etc.). Perhaps the suburbs of Brooklyn and Linndale should be tossed in there too, since they're almost surrounded by the city.
 * East Side - This would be everything except Downtown and University Circle, like Slavic Village, Little Italy, Shaker Square, etc. This is the part where I admit that I am a West-Sider and that I'm not sure if the East Side has enough to talk about without University Circle.  More input on this would be helpful!
 * Westshore Suburbs - This would be Bay Village, Westlake, North Olmsted, Rocky River, Fairview Park & Lakewood.
 * Southwest Suburbs - Olmsted Falls, Olmsted Township, Brook Park, Berea, Middleburg Heights, Strongsville, Parma, Parma Heights, North Royalton, Seven Hills, Independence, Broadview Heights, and Brecksville. Maybe this should be broken down further???

I have no idea exactly how to divy up the east suburbs, nor do I know enough to feel like I should write lots about them. Help here would be excellent, since the East Suburbs have so much to offer!

I can also get some pictures (if I don't already have them!) to add more color to the article. Please let me know your opinions and if there is anything I can do to help further the guide since I actually live in the area! (WT-en) LeeHawkins 23:40, 29 December 2007 (EST)

Shoreline
I don't know where to verify it, but it seems unlikely that Cleveland has the most shoreline of any city in the world. Off the top of my head, it seems like at the very least Singapore would have more shoreline, since it is a fairly large island-city. —The preceding comment was added by 137.99.145.90 (talk • contribs).

Agreed. Hyperbole like this just adds to the impression that this article is trying *way* too hard to make Cleveland sound appealing. —The preceding comment was added by 70.239.6.195 (talk • contribs)

Understand--comeback years
Would Progressive Field be considered "new" having been built in 1994?

On that line, the magazine reference in Do -- Sports -- for the Indians is a bit too townie for me. I changed "many consider Progressive Field the gem of the AL" to "some..." but might recommend taking it a step further and deleting that all together. Yes, the Jake has a wonderful reputation but "many" would actually state Fenway in Boston as the "gem of the AL" (or even the entire MLB) so then this begs the question: why not just mention some of the "gem"-things about the Jake and let people decide for themselves beyond that? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Zepppep (talk • contribs)


 * Well, we do have to be careful not to neuter the language so much that it becomes boring to read. See Project:Tone.  (WT-en) LtPowers 18:48, 29 October 2009 (EDT)

Alternative banner for this article?
In the Hebrew Wikivoyage we are currently using this banner instead of the one which is currently used here. Do you think too that this banner would would better than the existing one? ויקיג&#39;אנקי (talk) 03:33, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I think the current banner is more interesting to look at than the new one. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:36, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I second Ikan's opinion. The proposed one also cuts off the top of some the tallest buildings, and there's a rather unappealing jumble of things in the center of the banner (around the blue-painted bridge). And the shoreline, while nice, would get covered up by the contents bar as a banner. PerryPlanet (talk) 14:25, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The current banner cannot stay on Commons, unless those statues are really old. I've had to nominate it for deletion, but we can upload it locally under our Non-free content policy.  vi.wikivoyage also uses it, though, and they don't seem to have a non-free content policy.  Powers (talk) 15:09, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The Soldiers' and Sailors' Monument (Cleveland) is over 100 years old and thus not subject to copyright. -- Ryan &bull; (talk) &bull; 17:04, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks; I had no way of identifying the statues in the photo. I wish the uploader had given some details.  Powers (talk) 00:52, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I prefer the existing banner.&bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 19:48, 6 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I much prefer the top picture. Cityscape images feel like a copout to me. Easy choices but not very interesting. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 14:10, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Current banner Matroc (talk) 03:13, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Learn
The Learn section is usually for short-term opportunities a traveller might take, not a place to describe all the long-term educational institutions, so I'm placing these below. If any of them offer something feasible for a traveller, or if any of them offer things to See or Do, feel free to reinsert it back in the article in the relevant section, with added details on what is of interest there. Texugo (talk) 18:28, 15 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Cleveland Institute of Music, . A leading international conservatory for classical music.
 * Cleveland Institute of Music, . A leading international conservatory for classical music.
 * Cleveland Institute of Music, . A leading international conservatory for classical music.
 * Cleveland Institute of Music, . A leading international conservatory for classical music.
 * Cleveland Institute of Music, . A leading international conservatory for classical music.