Talk:Caribbean

So, I'm pretty sure that "Caribbean Islands" is not a proper name. It should have been left at "Caribbean islands", per the Project:article naming conventions. We don't capitalize common names in titles. --(WT-en) Evan 12:17, 5 Aug 2004 (EDT)
 * Why is Bermuda not listed here? (WT-en) Yann 12:12, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)


 * Bermuda is only borderline Caribbean, it's in the Atlantic far to the north of any other Caribbean island... but Wikipedia lists it as a Caribbean island, so it's good enough for me. Will add. (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:17, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)


 * Sorry, but in this case Wikipedia is absolutely wrong. Bermuda is no more in the Caribbean than the Azores or the Canary Islands are. It is a North Atlantic island more than 1000 miles from the nearest bit of the Caribbean. I've removed the link (WT-en) Jpatokal added. -- (WT-en) Chris j wood 18:52, 4 Sep 2004 (EDT)


 * CaribDigita from Wikipedia here -- Bermuda *is* totally "Caribbean" leaning-- based on its political affiliations. Bermuda, outside of the offshore financial sector is moreso seeking a common future with the Caribbean.  Bermuda is an affilate of the Caribbean (CARICOM) Single Market and Economy (CSME), they are currently seeking independence from Britain to maintain its soverenty from the EU and right to un-hindered trade with the Caribbean.  Bermuda is also engaged in student exchanges with a few colleges in Barbados for example.  Its native business sector is primarily expanding into the Caribbean islands- as the single market moves closer to reality...  Bermuda may merge their stock exchange with the yet to be formed Caribbean regional stock exchange.  Bermuda is not considered "Caribbean" to many outside of the region even though it *is* in a point of view case much like Greenland is consider a part of Europe....
 * There's cases all over the world where 'Point of View' crosses paths with reality. Greenland-- is not considered a part of the Americas, but as a part of Europe-- even though it is clearly lies closer to North America. The twin island Republic of Trinidad and Tobago is considered "North America" by the Americans even though it lies ~8 Miles off the coast of Venezuela, S. America at the closest point.  Barbados is an exception as well.  It is considered as Caribbean even though it clearly lies in the Atlantic Ocean as well and doesn't actually touch the Caribbean Sea.  If you goto the CIA factbook though the image they made actually incorrectly states the Caribbean Sea is on the west coast of Barbados.  None the less, Barbados is still considered Caribbean even though it doesn't "fit the criteria."
 * Also, the Caribbean is considered a part of "N. America" even though its not actually a part of the North American tectonic plate.

Bermuda is just yet another exception to the rule, it is Caribbean-- based on identity, culture, affiliation and political ties. Just like Greenland is a part of "Europe" based on politics alone and not a part of the Americas. 68.166.235.246 CaribDigita

West Indies, Antilles
I wonder if West Indies might not be a better term to use here.

Also, the Greater Antilles, Lesser Antilles, and Bahamas are three sub-groups of the islands of the Caribbean. --(WT-en) Evan 13:01, 21 Nov 2004 (EST)

Good spot to reference---
The majority of caribbean islands have joined the joint marketing venture named the "Caribbean Tourism Organzation (CTO)" --based in Barbados. This site contains all of the links to the official state tourist boards online. [www.DoItCaribbean.com - Caribbean Tourism Organization] Good spot to start if anyone is just wanting to read-up on what's out there. 68.166.235.246 CaribDigita

Caribbean islands is a lame name
I can say that, because I think I named it.

If this title is going to be popping up in the Project:Breadcrumb navigation everywhere, I'd love to see it be Caribbean or West Indies. Any objections? --(WT-en) Evan 14:02, 8 Dec 2005 (EST)


 * "Caribbean" alone is good. West Indies is a little old-fashioned and confusing. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:50, 8 Dec 2005 (EST)


 * Caribbean is available, even! Good move. I was forever having to add island to the links for these places, whenever I just wanted to say ... is in the Caribbean. Perhaps this is the exception to the Bodies of water guidelines. -- (WT-en) Huttite 17:18, 10 Dec 2005 (EST)

Cayman Islands
Are they really in the Lesser Antilles ?

-- (WT-en) Beardo 18:23, 20 Feb 2006 (EST)

Netherlands Antilles in Lesser Antilles
Having the Netherlands Antilles listed as well Saba seems to be a little double. So either put all five islands of the Neth. Antilles in the list, or take Saba out. That way you have a little more consistancy in your list. Also if you have Saint Martin in the list for both sides of the island it might be nice to also add the official name for the Dutch side to the list, namely Saint Martin-Sint Maarten. The last is also the correct spelling of the name of the Dutch side in english.


 * With the future dissolving of the Netherlands Antilles, it seems more logical to add the individual islands. Also, Sint-Maarten is now listed, while it is a part of the Netherlands Antilles (and the French part is a part of Guadeloupe). It seems easier to just add them separately. (WT-en) Globe-trotter 09:33, 7 September 2009 (EDT)

Barbados airport code
Barbados should be BGI. BGT is Baghdad!!


 * Why not plunge forward and change it? It's easier to fix an article than to ask someone else to. :) - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 18:07, 24 July 2006 (EDT)

Turks & Caicos and more
Turks & Caicos is not part of the Lesser Antilles, they should be grouped with "Other Islands" like the Bahamas are.

Aruba I am not sure if it is techincally part of the Lesser Antillies, I suspect it is technically not. It is ussually refered to as part of the ABC islands along with Bonaire and Curacou, to place the Netherland Antillies as a whole in the Lesser Antillies category is thus technically wrong, only Saba, Statia and Sint Maarten are in the Lesser Antillies. This is a common problem in the Caribbean, there are several naming conventions used. As previously suggested, West Indies would make more sense and be easier, as all the islands could be in a single group and Bahamas and T&C would not have to be simply called "Other Islands" and there would be no confusion about what belongs where.

For what its worth, most people living in these various islands call them the West Indies and never use the name Antillies. But some islands are an exception, notably the Dutch islands, US territories and Hispanolia do not refer to themselves as West Indian.

My best suggestion would be the following grouping:

Nothern Caribbean (cuba, PR, caymens, etc..) Virgin Islands (US, British and perhaps even Spanish (part of PR)) Eastern Caribbean (St. Martin down to Trinidad) ABC Islands (Aruba, Bonaire and Curacou) Exterior Islands (Bahamas, T&C, Bermuda) None of these islands are technically a Caribbean island at all, which at the very least should be noted, at the moment it is only noted for Bermuda.

Links to south american and central american counties in the Caribbean should also be included, as they are indeed considered part of the caribbean, the article name is after all Caribbean, not Caribbean Islands. Or change the article name. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Russeasby (talk • contribs) 3 September 2006


 * I suggest we get rid of the whole "Antilles" and just place all the islands as a top-level grouping. Much as like done with Oceania and South America. There are no clear groups to make in the Caribbean. Now Cayman Islands is in Greater Antilles, which is just wrong. But it's also not in the Lesser Antilles. Turks & Caicos, Bahamas and Bermuda are all complicated and not listed, but we want to include them in this grouping as well. Aruba is not in the Lesser Antilles, etc. The list of wrong-doings goes on and on.  (WT-en) globe-trotter 19:16, 29 December 2009 (EST)

Map and Regionlist
Is a wee bit schizophrenic. Showing The Bahamas and Turks and Caicos on the map but not coded on the regionlist table makes no sense to me. As far as the traveller is concerned they are Caribbean destinations. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 13:07, 11 May 2010 (EDT)


 * Yep, I think they should be included. It's getting a very long list though. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 07:50, 12 May 2010 (EDT)

Regions
I really think we should create some regions for the Caribbean. The list is already very long and it will be even worse with the future dissolvement of the Netherlands Antilles. I am in favor of the following proposal:


 * Bahamas
 * Bermuda
 * Cayman Islands
 * Cuba
 * Dominican Republic
 * Haiti
 * Jamaica
 * Lesser Antilles
 * Puerto Rico
 * Turks and Caicos Islands

--(WT-en) globe-trotter 12:53, 3 July 2010 (EDT)


 * That is a decent proposal. /Yvwv (talk) 01:17, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

The get in section
Well the whole article needs work, but the get in section is particularly messy, compared to others. I understand the rationale behind it, but at the very least we should present the three letter codes in a form that makes sense to people who rarely fly (I don't know which percentage of Europeans would know what a IATA code is and could name more than a handful from memory). And maybe the "airlines" and "from X" sections could be consolidated in some way... Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:39, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreeing to that too. It's surprising how bad our coverage on Caribbean destinations in general is, given that 25 million tourists visit the Caribbean every year (presumably most of them from two very large English-speaking countries to the north). ϒpsilon (talk) 10:09, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Other destinations
Granted, Cuba is by far the largest country in the Caribbean in area and also the largest in population, but it is really best for 4 of 8 "Other destinations" to be in Cuba (and 5 of 9 until I deleted Baracoa for being a city, not a non-city destination)? At the very least, I would suggest that the 9th non-city destination be from somewhere else, but what do you think of spreading the destinations around a bit? The "Cities" list, which includes 2 Cuban cities among 9 total, seems more in proportion to me, though I wouldn't want superb destinations in Cuba to be removed if an attempt at fairness doesn't serve the traveler best. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:56, 23 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree we should spread out the destinations more. There are about 30 entities listed in Caribbean, so 4 out of 8 is definitely too many; 2 out of 9 like in the Cities is better.  ϒpsilon (talk) 09:52, 23 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Created sub-regions for the Leeward Islands, the Windward Islands, and the Leeward Antilles. /Yvwv (talk) 18:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Clean up Get in by plane section
There is a fairly comprehensive list of destinations and airlines in this long section, a good deal of which is probably no longer valid. Any objection to a clean up?

Ultimately this region is very well connected by plane to North America and Europe, with both scheduled flights and package tours. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:56, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I suggested as much two sections up. Please do go ahead. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:21, 2 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Sorry, that seems to have been discussed earlier this year. Can update now. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:26, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Moving Bermuda to North America?
Bermuda is not even close to the Caribbean, geographically or politically. Should Bermuda be moved to North America, or maybe Islands? /Yvwv (talk) 11:53, 3 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, I saw this rather angry sounding edit here about this. Although Bermuda does invoke Caribbean like images, it is as you say way out in the Atlantic ocean and better moved to North America. Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:52, 3 December 2016 (UTC)


 * As a counter-point, Bermuda is a member of the Caribbean_Community Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:55, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Camo clothing?
This article warns travellers not to take camo-pattern clothing to the region, claiming it is illegal for anyone but military or police to wear it in several countries.

I saw it on Facebook & one guy who lives in Jamaica commented that such a law exists there but is never enforced there except when a policeman wants an excuse to be bribed. He suggests that is likely true on other islands as well.

Is this real? Should we have an infobox about it here, or one for each country where it matters? Pashley (talk) 14:43, 24 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Well the closest to a "Caribbean" country I have ever been was Nicaragua and there the only people to wear that kind of pattern were active duty military and there was often a sign in bars that there is no alcohol to be served to minors or uniformed people... Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:10, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Haiti

 * Moved by the discussion about Haiti's description, going on in my talk page, I have just tried to merge and combine the two "suggested alternatives" and achieve consensus. It may be not the best phrasing and, as always, collaborations are very welcome. Ibaman (talk) 18:11, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Railways
this article may be of some interest Hobbitschuster (talk) 06:36, 15 May 2018 (UTC)