Talk:Brazil/Archive 2003-2012

SMS mobile phone support
Please, check if the information about TIM mobile carrier is true. I believe that all carriers is able to send text messages to cell phones abroad. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 143.107.45.17 (talk • contribs)
 * I'm pretty sure about that because I own a TIM and a Brasil Telecom, and my brother has a Vivo phone. Of all three, only the TIM phone can send international SMS. I can double check this too, but during my recent past travels I could never get messages sent by my friends who own Claro phones to my European phone, so I suppose they're also unable to text abroad. Those are the four carriers that provide national coverage, and I don't think that other smaller local carriers can provide that service either. -- (WT-en) Ricardo (Rmx) 20:25, 4 January 2007 (EST)

Maps of Brazilian regions and states
I've found a website that contains a wealth of maps of Brazil, but I'm not sure if they are copyrighted or not. Does anybody know if we could use these? (WT-en) DhDh 04:55, 22 Jan 2004 (EST)


 * It'd probably be a good idea to contact the Brazilian authority in charge. --(WT-en) Evan 15:17, 5 Mar 2004 (EST)


 * I think there's a good chance they are. Somebody already wrote an email? My portugese isn't that good but I could give it a try if there's nobody willing to do this --(WT-en) Cyc08:08, 8 Aug 2005 (EDT)


 * I don't think government officials would make copyrighted maps widely available on the Internet and not mention it. Anyway, I have just sent them an e-mail asking about it. I will post here again as soon as I get the response. I think the maps would be really useful for Wikivoyage. --(WT-en) Rmx 03:42, 8 Oct 2005 (EDT)
 * Finally they replied: The use is allowed, credit should be given to Ministério dos Transportes. --(WT-en) Rmx 15:30, 16 Oct 2005 (UCT)

Amazonia
So, I don't think Amazonia is a real destination according to our geographical hierarchy. At least, it overlaps much of the other regions. If those regions are weak, well, we need to change them. Ideas? --(WT-en) Evan 15:17, 5 Mar 2004 (EST)


 * Not only does it overlap Brazilian regions, but it also includes parts of Venezuela, Colombia and Peru. We could maybe make it a disambiguation page that links to the regions it encompasses. I don't think the regions we have are weak (I think I proposed them ;-). My in-laws are Brazilian and people in Brazil speak about the Nordeste, Centroeste, etc. They are the traditional regions the country is divided in. BTW, we're planning a trip to Rio de Janeiro/Cabo Frio in summer. I'll take an extra bag to carry all the info for Wikivoyage home... (WT-en) DhDh 17:26, 5 Mar 2004 (EST)


 * I meant to come back and remove that statement. After surfing the Web a bit, I'm convinced these are in fact quite righteous regions. The maps you link to above, as well as another few sites, use approximately the same regions we do -- not a necessity, but a good indicator that we're on the right track.


 * I'm not sure what to do about "Amazonia". I'm guessing it's not synonymous with Amazonas. By the way, good to see you! --(WT-en) Evan 17:44, 5 Mar 2004 (EST)


 * The five regions (Norte, Nordeste, Centro-Oeste, Sudeste and Sul) are right. They are the official ones.


 * I just added some info on phone numbering (but somehow got logged out while doing it)


 * Since I'm a Brazilian (from Niterói, RJ), I can add more info on some things (but I have no clue as to what a tourist would find useful).


 * BTW, Amazonas is both the state and the river; Amazonia is the region (which includes parts of other countries); the part of Amazonia which is within Brazil is in the North region (but is not the whole of it). It would be better to use the official (political) regions, which are nothing more than groups of states (the region borders and state borders match exactly). IOW, let's keep the grouping as is, with these five regions.


 * (WT-en) cesarb 18:10, 3 Apr 2004 (EST)

If one is going to Cabo Frio (RJ) it is worth it going to Buzios where the beautiful beaches are.

This map is wrong! It's too old. We have another capital yet, Palmas.

By Car
Would someone please make entry on getting into Brazil by car? I read that "Long-distance bus service connects Brazil to its neighboring countries," so I gather that one may drive in as well, no?


 * I have added some info on the location of border crossings. Which other information could also be useful? --(WT-en) Rmx 04:22, 08 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Images
Don't know if it's any use but I spent 8 month in Brazil an took a quite a lot of pictures (not professional ones). If you want some as a start you can check out www.timosachsenberg.de. They are all free to use. I would do it myself but I got some exams right now. cheers

Separating States
I think we should not list "some of the most proeminent cities" on the first page... I'd like to write about non-proeminent regions, which are, in fact, the most important information (couse it's very hard to find in elsewhere). So, Maybe we could:
 * Make a brief of each state (26 at total) and link the items to it's page or
 * Make a brief of each region (5 at total) and link it a page containing the states description;

Is it OK if I change the layout that way ??? (WT-en) 1ur1 12:52, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)


 * And then move cities to a separate Brazilian Cities article? That sounds reasonable to me, as it would also help fixing the confusing Other destinations section, which mixes cities, states and other attractions. --(WT-en) Rmx 04:47, 8 Oct 2005 (EDT)


 * Making an article simply about Brazilian Cities will be deleted. The cities can simply be added to the main Brazil or the state's article.  Otherwise you create confusion when people are looking at the article about Brazil, but do not find the city they are looking for.  -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 00:32, 8 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Dumped lists of cities
Some IP address, probably in Brazil though I haven't whoised it. dumped lists of cities, with repetitions and some questionable items such as "Km 115", into Paraná and Santa Catarina. Can someone who knows Brazilian geography weed the junk out? -(WT-en) phma 20:12, 11 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Culture & Society
I think the sections on culture and society are so biased I can't even start "fixing" them!! I think those items really deserve a deeper and more sensitive collaboration. Can anybody please help? --(WT-en) Rmx 04:32, 08 Oct 2005 (EDT)


 * If you think they are biased and know how to remove that bias, go for it. If you feel like it needs a complete overhaul, then plunge forward and take care of it. -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 00:34, 8 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Regions
I'm moving the mention to Distrito Federal to the description of the Center-west region, as it is always included there in Brazil's political geography. Therefore, we can stick to the 5 regions described in the introductory paragraph. --(WT-en) Rmx 19:00 17 Oct 2005 (UCT)

Pantanal
I am replacing the term chaco by Pantanal, as those are two different ecosystems. According to this WWF site, chaco is more similar to the dry Brazilian cerrado (savannah) while the term Pantanal is used by UNESCO in its original Portuguese form as a completely unique ecosystem of wetlands. (WT-en) Rmx 17:45, 17 Nov 2005 (EST)

Talk
I removed "Brazilian Portuguese has its own dialects" since AFAIK people who speak a dialect can't understand the other dialect. That's not what happens, people understand each other across all the country, only the rythm and stress of the words change.


 * I'm portuguese and I don't understand the thing that says words don't begin with an R sound. I can think of lots of words that start with an R. How could one possibly pronouce real as "hay-AHL"?? 193.137.24.32 09:09, 10 Nov 2005 (EST)


 * Point exactly, your portuguese. Go to Brazil to see. We dont prenounce the "R" sound with a "rrrrr" sound (Like as if Vibrating your tongue), but instead with a "H" sound ( as if your going to spit).


 * According to my dictionary, a dialect is "a regional or social variety of a language distinguished by pronunciation, grammar, or vocabulary". Hence, it can be said that there are many dialects of Portuguese in Brazil, even though they are mutually comprehensible. As for the initial R sound, in Brazil it always sounds like the English H sound, not rolled like the Spanish R. (WT-en) Rmx 21:10, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)


 * I have been studying Brazilian Portuguese and have actually found it much easier to learn than I imagined. Most of the words can be associated with english words that mean the same thing, which is great for recollection.  As for the comments on the "R", it does have the "H" or a kind of hissing sound when it is at the beginning of a word.  However, when it is not at the beginning it usually takes the rolling r sound.  For example:  Rio De Jeneiro would be pronounced - Rio is like "He-o" with the e and o being the long vowel sound, and Jeneiro, the "r" has the rolling r sound almost sounding like the english d in the word "do" if pronounced very fast by a Brazilian.  Pimsleur has a great audio collection for learning any language.

Small cities vs Other Destinations
I think the Other Destinations section is aimed at destinations that aren't really cities such as parks, ruins, other geographical features (say, a canyon or a volcano) or even sub-regions like the Pantanal. The Cities list, however, really looks too long so I believe it could be split into "main" (most visited/well-known) and "other" cities, thus leaving the other destinations section for its original purpose. Comments?


 * Certainly. I just wanted to move them out of the Cities list, which I think should be limited to those on the map. Frankly though, I'd like to remove those minor destinations altogether. They tend to be totally unknown minor places that someone (usually an anonymous one-time contributor) adds just to say "I went there, and it was really cool!". While even such minor places deserve an article, they don't merit mention on the main country page. -- (WT-en) Paul Richter 08:16, 22 Nov 2005 (EST)


 * I've just moved 3 more cities to the region articles. Even though they are on the map, they are not major national attractions themselves, being either entrance cities to some other destinations or just regional tourist attractions. (WT-en) Rmx 09:56, 28 Dec 2005 (EST)


 * We include cities at the country level because there are a lot of people who don't have the geographical knowledge to find, say, Rio de Janeiro in Brazil by navigating through Southeast (Brazil) to Rio de Janeiro (state) then to find Rio de Janeiro. The point is to have popular and frequently-sought cities in that area as a "short cut" for navigation. Cities that, say, an average New Zealander isn't going to be familiar with should be on the regional or state pages. Actually, all cities should be on the regional and state pages, but the most popular and well-known should probably also be on the country page, too. --(WT-en) Evan 21:24, 10 Jan 2006 (EST)

Tap Water
The article says that tap water should not be drank at all. This does not seem correct as (at least in São Paulo state) SABESP (a water company) does a great job on providing high-quality water. I believe that other brazilians should comment here on this issue. Tap water might have been a problem before, but it is not like this now. At least in São Paulo state.


 * I agree that the "don't ever drink it" is too strong a statement (I didn't write it), but although health authorities generally claim to provide good drinking water almost everywhere, I personally don't know many people who drink it unfiltered. -- (WT-en) Ricardo (Rmx) 03:00, 27 August 2006 (EDT)

9 cities
So Brazil is facing the same "too many cities" dilemma that other country articles have faced before. To stick to the 5-9 cities consensus, maybe we should clean up the list and leave the capital plus 8 of the 10 most visited cities according to the country's tourist authority. Foz do Iguaçu should be left out because people don't go there for the city but for the Falls, which are listed under Other destinations. Maybe Porto Alegre should be left out too, because it can be popular with Spanish-speaking travellers, but not necessarily with the English-speaking target audience of this guide. -- (WT-en) Ricardo (Rmx) 19:29, 28 March 2007 (EDT)
 * 1) Rio de Janeiro
 * 2) São Paulo
 * 3) Salvador
 * 4) Fortaleza
 * 5) Recife
 * 6) Foz do Iguaçu
 * 7) Búzios
 * 8) Porto Alegre
 * 9) Florianópolis
 * 10) Belo Horizonte
 * I'd leave out Búzios - it may be a heavily visited resort, but that's different from being a significant city. And perhaps add Belem, as it's the biggest city in a significant region. -- (WT-en) Paul Richter 04:33, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

Regions naming
How about we change the names of the regions, such as turning North (Brazil) into North Brazil and South (Brazil) into South Brazil. Is there anyone with an objection to this? --(WT-en) globe-trotter 17:20, 5 August 2011 (EDT)


 * I guess North Brazil (or Northern Brazil) as opposed to North (Brazil) is already the preferred form (unless they really call the place only "North" there, which, for example, is true for American South). There is a discussion about this here, and perhaps somewhere else, too (but where?). – (WT-en) Vidimian 18:03, 5 August 2011 (EDT)


 * Actually, all the region names in Brazil are just as ingrained there as South is in the US, or more. In this case, I think it would rather cheapen them to rename the articles to "North Brazil" etc.-- they sound like simply descriptive region names that we came up with. However, these region names ("norte", "nordeste", "sul", etc.) are the way Brazilians talk in everyday conversation. (WT-en) texugo 00:36, 6 August 2011 (EDT)


 * Yes, but does that even matter? South still refers to the South of Brazil, so South Brazil is fine as a title. The Southern Netherlands is also referred to as "The South" here in daily conversation, but having an article South (Netherlands) I think doesn't make for an improvement. Besides, it shows "South travel guide" as the title, which is really odd too. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 20:05, 17 August 2011 (EDT)


 * Ah, this one yet again. Texugo, I thought from the recent discussion at VFD you were anti this type of article naming? Personally, I find the existence of articles here called "South" (for example) extremely unhelpful. Everything we can do to get rid of them is to be applauded in my book. I accept that the US version will never go as any suggestion of change is immediately shot down. Elsewhere, change them I say. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 22:38, 17 August 2011 (EDT)


 * I generally am against this type of naming (and I'm adamantly against disambiguating it), but for the same reason people shoot down changing the US South region, I think that if there were more people here familiar with Brazil, they would probably be here shooting this suggestion down for the same reason. (WT-en) texugo 00:05, 18 August 2011 (EDT)


 * That's why I think we should also have a Southern United States article ;-). Anyway, Wikipedia calls this region the South Region, maybe that's an idea? --(WT-en) globe-trotter 00:26, 18 August 2011 (EDT)


 * The difference with the Southern USA, is that someone would generally say "I am going to The South". I don't think the same could be said for English speakers travelling in Brazil. They would say "I am going to South Brazil" or "I am going to the South of Brazil", instead of "I am going to the South". --(WT-en) globe-trotter 05:37, 15 October 2011 (EDT)

Other destinations
I think the 9 featured other destinations need a re-think. In particular, I think Emas National Park ought to be replaced, because it's really a very little-visited remote wildlife reserve with practically no tourist infrastructure. It is not, as suggested on its talk page, "unvisitable", but it is apparently quite a hassle to visit even if you're a Portuguese-speaker with your own car and a raging desire to see wild animals at the crack of dawn. Plus I see no reason to highlight a second Goiás park, when we already have Chapada dos Veadeiros. So I suggest: I think if we do that it will balance things out a little geographically and give a little more variety. Any comments? (WT-en) texugo 10:52, 9 August 2011 (EDT)
 * Replace Emas National Park with Lençóis Maranhenses
 * Replace Itatiaia National Park with Ilha do Marajó
 * Replace Serra da Canastra National Park with Chapada Diamantina
 * Anyone? (WT-en) texugo 01:49, 12 August 2011 (EDT)
 * Agree to the suggested changes, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 02:23, 12 August 2011 (EDT)
 * I went ahead and changed it up. (WT-en) texugo 10:24, 12 August 2011 (EDT)
 * With Chapada Diamantina, do you mean the region or the Chapada Diamantina National Park? --(WT-en) globe-trotter 10:27, 12 August 2011 (EDT)
 * Ah. Good point. I meant the National Park. I'll change it. Thanks! (WT-en) texugo 10:29, 12 August 2011 (EDT)

Electricity
According to http://users.telenet.be/worldstandards/brazil.html the voltages encountered in Brazil are 127 and 220 volts, not 120 and 240. In Belo Horizonte I asked a number of people about the mains voltage, and each of them answered 110V, while I measured it and it is definitely 127V. Although most electronic equipment designed for 110V will work on 127 V, some appliances, especially ones that include a heating element (incandescent lamps, hairdryers, soldering irons) run the risk of burning out quickly. (simon.o(at)brousant.nl)

Road quality info
The following was added to Get in#By car, but it's really something that belongs in Get around#By car, which already contains a little on the topic. There may be some points to be merged in there though, if anyone is up for it.

It should be born in mind that, with the exception of some privatized highways, by most American/ European standards Brazilian roads are both poorly constructed and even worse maintained. Uneven and worn-out surfaces, ruts and potholes are the rule rather than the exception, even on many major highways, sometimes considerably adding to the journey time. Road markings are often deficient and sometimes absent altogether. There are fewer signs and these may be unhelpful to those not already familiar with the area, especially in towns. Many bridges are unsafe. More than half the national road network is still on unsurfaced roads (dirt roads). In many areas of the country ie. the Amazon, there are simply no surfaced roads at all. What roads there are often become impassable during the rainy season, during which the only travel option is by air or boat. Many city centers are heavily congested and there are few bypasses. Road tolls on the increasing number of privatized roads are frequent and expensive, often doubling the cost of a journey compared to the simple cost of gasolene. Add to all of this the natural impatience of the average Brazilian driver and you also have a lethal accident cocktail. Road transport is, nevertheless, for most, the only option. (WT-en) texugo 01:27, 21 January 2012 (EST)

Law about IDs
I'm Brazilian and I'm pretty sure there is no law that obligates citizens to carry photo IDs at all times, except in specific places and events, although I'm not sure if it's the same for foreigns.--Igorhb (talk) 17:24, 16 December 2012 (UTC)