Talk:Berlin/Archive 2003-2012

Camping
Can somebody add a camping section for recreation? Some parks have activities and others do not, but it would be useful to have some of these here

Districts - hippest locations
The hippest locations and in my opinion most interesting place in Berlin, Prenzlauer Berg, with its artist and hip coffee shop scene is not even mentioned in the article. Instead there is link to an own article hidden in the text, a person not knowing the borough and its flair will never read. A tourist is interested in life and culture, not just in churches! Someone should write a short paragraph about Prenzlauer Berg on the Berlin main page 82.82.119.130 20:51, 10 Jan 2004 (EST)


 * So do it :-) Or at least change it around to be better. That's the idea of wiki. I don't know Berlin well at all, so I won't touch this article myself. --(WT-en) Nils 2:52, 11 Jan 2004 (CET)


 * I added a brief note about Prenzlauer Berg in the districts section. Other notes are needed.


 * Also, it's worth noting that Berlin is not in our preferred format for a huge city. All the See and Do stuff really needs to be moved to the appropriate district page, with the Berlin page remaining as an overview. Once they're moved, the individual district pages won't be so lost in the noise.


 * This page was started from the very generous donation of a travel writer of the notes she'd created for doing a travel guide of Europe; it's going to take a while before we can hack her stuff into our preferred format. I'm totally unfamiliar with Berlin, and have no clue as to where to put most of the sights... Help needed, please! --(WT-en) Evan 21:37, 10 Jan 2004 (EST)


 * Last time I was in Berlin I was but a kid and the cold war raged (well.. it didn't rage - that being the whole point. You get the idea tho). So.. I can't help here. -- (WT-en) Nils 10:47 Jan 18th, 2004 (CET)

Districts - organisation
So, we have two sets of districts on this page. I think we need to settle on the one most likely to be used and encountered by travelers. Is the new set of districts actually in use? Do these districts have their own "character"? Or are they merely administrative lines -- deciding who's responsible for taking away the trash? Someone who knows Berlin, please give it a shot. We have articles already on some of the "old" districts -- I don't see a good point in having two overlaid set of articles. --(WT-en) Evan 18:06, 18 Jan 2004 (EST)


 * I was in Berlin last Saturday; the "new" districts seem to be in use. I'm going to take a stab at the article in the following days and I will use the "new" districts. I'll be doing mostly editorial work, however, until I see more of Berlin for myself. -- (WT-en) Nils 07:59, 26 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Prenzlauer Berg is pretty gentrified. Friedrichshain is hipper. From memory from my ultra cheap ryanair trip last year:
 * There is a shop in Friedrichshain which sells East German stuff including traffic light men tat, old DDR videos etc. (I will get the name). (Mondos Arts - http://www.mondosarts.de/shop/start.htm)
 * There is a really good market for more old eastern stuff (around a square)
 * Lonely Planet is wrong when it says there is an old watchtower as an art gallery - it closed a few years ago.
 * There is a good and cheap Generator Hostel at Landsberger Allee.
 * The old east german parliament building is open for exhibitions before its demolition - Palast der Republik, Schlossplatz, Mitte
 * There is a cafe specialising in sausages in Alexanderplatz.

I will do some work on this - but don't know how to organise the article as it stands. (WT-en) Caroline 21:22, 19 Jul 2004 (EDT)

This needs transport links from the airports - its a bus from Tegel, U-Bahn from Schoenfeld. I felt okay in Marzhan - you can get a tram through it to look at all the old east german architecture. However I'm white, fair haired and poorly dressed and could probably pass. (WT-en) Caroline 21:36, 19 Jul 2004 (EDT)

This page needs sorting out before we add more stuff to it. I'm going to list things here for the moment:


 * Stasi Museum, (German:Forschungs- und Gedenkstätte Normannenstraße), Normannenstraße 22, 5 53 68 54, (U-bahn Magdalenstraße)


 * Mondos Arts, Schreinerstraße 6, (U-bahn Samariterstraße) (Ostalgie shopping)


 * Soviet War Memorial, Treptower Park (S-bahn S41, S42, S8, S9)


 * Intershop 2000, Ehrenbergstraße 3-7, (U-bahn Warschauer Straße) (Ostalgie shopping)


 * Two buses: 100 & 200, pass through the centre and are designed for tourists. Normal public transport fares apply. (WT-en) Caroline 07:18, 22 Jul 2004 (EDT)

tips
Ok, some points which have to be added:

1) Dont scare the people. Berlin isnt that dangerous. It would be better to just tell them they shouldnt take all there credit cards and rolex clocks etc. with them! Especially at night times there is security stuff in the trains. A other good advice would be to be in the drivers car. In case of emergency they should pull the emgerncy brake which is locatet at every door.

2) Whats allways really confusing for me in other citys is the ticket system for the public transportations. there should be more attetion on that.

3) The "Deutsche Bahn" provides a excellent and very comfortable way to travel to ALL (to all places in germany, and there more trains then just the ICE) places in germany. www.bahn.de (or: http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en for the english version) is a excellent page to check for trains. The page will automaticly search many  ways with all connecting trains. (you can also options for cheaper a trip)

4) It should be noticed that many germans speak english properly. Nearly Eeveryone under 30 speaks english.

5) "THEATERKASSEN" = "theatre box offices" should be mentioned.

6) Shisha Bars should be mentioned.

7) There has to be a better picture of the Brandenburger Tor.

There is on the Pariser Platz wiki page, or Brandenburger Tor page in German. I tried to add it but don't understand this markup stuff in relation to images... 143.239.170.174 12:16, 23 March 2007 (EDT) 8) Pictures

9) climate

I really would like to help to improve this article a bit more but my english isnt good enough for editing the actual article.


 * Don't worry! Your English above is more than good enough.  Go ahead and edit, others will come to fix up any small errors. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:55, 28 Jul 2005 (EDT)

U-Bahn ticket inspectors and fines
I was in Berlin with my girlfriend this weekend. Big thanks to wikivoyage contributors for the hostel recommendations. Mitte's backpacker's hostel (top of the list) was great!

One incident put a bit of downer on the weekend though. On our very first U-bahn journey we got fined 40 euros each! We bought the Kurtstrecke, not realising that this is a single for travelling only 3 stops. Didn't see this indicated anywhere on the ticket machines, but it was explained to us by a bunch of butch intimidating ticket inspectors, who checked our tickets just as we were about to get off. When they asked for our passports and addresses I didn't really feel inclined to argue with them. I decided to look like the confused innocent tourist that I was. They didn't speak english, and we were left with some forms which we were supposed to take to the bank, to pay the 40 euro fine. We didn't acually do this though (we didn't want to, and also the banks seemed to be all closed), so not sure what happens next. Maybe we get an even bigger fine through the post some time later. Anyone had this experience? -- (WT-en) Nojer2 14:57, 5 Dec 2005 (EST)


 * Actually this happens quite frequently. Since you can just walk into the trains in Germany, they have these inspectors to check tickets."Kurzstrecke" Tickets are explained on the machines in english, but I guess it's hard to find.
 * Did you give them your real adress? If you live in Germany you could get into trouble but otherwise I don't think they will look for you. -- (WT-en) Evaa - 06:46, 6 Dec 2005


 * I did give them my real address (and they had my passport number) This was the only reason I was worried. In particular I was worried I'd be landed with a bigger fine in several months time.
 * But I think it's all sorted now. I emailed bvg.de (the people who run the U-Bahn) relating my story. They responded within minutes, even though I sent it at 1 a.m. (Scarey german efficiency!) I needed to give them the "Vorfall Number" from the fine papers. Today I got a reply from another department. This was written in legalistic german, but I think it says we're being let off the fine. ("Im Rahmen der Kulanz verzichten wir einmalig auf die uns zustehenden erhöhten Beförderungsentgelte - ohne Anerkennung einer Rechtspflicht."). Can anyone confirm that?
 * So maybe that's useful information for others. If you're interested I can give you the full text of my pleading email, and their replies. But in general my advice would be.... try to buy a valid ticket! -- (WT-en) Nojer2 05:11, 7 Dec 2005 (EST)


 * Yeah you're right, basically it means as a goodwill gesture we will not fine you anything this one time (WT-en) Evaa
 * Phew! -- (WT-en) Nojer2 19:50, 5 Feb 2006 (EST)


 * " this can lead to a fine of more than €80. (Most residents claim to see ticket checkers once a month; if you're determined to scam, the morning papers print the lines with controllers for the day "
 * fine is no more than 80€, its like 40€ afaik
 * there are definetely NO lines with controllers printed in the papers
 * i see ticket checkers about once a week so you don't want to ride without a ticket. if you do so, do it after 9pm or before 8am, as there are'nt any at that time
 * you need to show a validated ticket to the busdriver though they almost never check whether its valid


 * How should I proceed to make the payment if I don't live in Europe?

Ich bin ein Berliner
Jan,

If I go to Berlin where is the best place to buy "ein Berliner" doughnut? Thanks! - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 15:31, 29 May 2006 (EDT)
 * There is no real best place because it is more a common good. If you look for big choice I would recommend any major bakery (e.g. the one in the KadeWe or in Galeries Lafayette). Most people stick to there local bakery.
 * Jan,


 * I saw that you deleted the infobox in the "Eat" section. I'm going to reinsert it, because I think it provides some interesting insight into a popular urban myth. I wanted to add the information for a doughnut shop where someone could pick up a "Berliner" doughnut. That's why I asked the above question. - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 17:20, 29 May 2006 (EDT)
 * i doubt that few will get the joke because you need to know more of a background to that story and it is an academical joke... Could you please at least add the deleted hotels in the splurge section back? These are the best ones in Berlin and JFK had nothing to do with them. Thanks, (WT-en) Jan 17:29, 29 May 2006 (EDT)


 * If you can phrase it so that it's an obvious urban legend with no basis in fact, feel free to reinsert the legend. -- (WT-en) Colin 17:37, 29 May 2006 (EDT)

Mirroring site
Apparently the website Hotelsk is ripping off Wikivoyage articles and using them on their website. I imagine they are violation of the CC-CY-SA 1.0 license as no one nor Wikivoyage is cited as the creator. I didn't see my name, or Jan's there. -- (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 09:39, 2 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Interesting. I'll post a notice on Wikivoyage_talk:Non-compliant_redistribution. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 10:12, 2 June 2006 (EDT)

Jewish Museum / Jüdisches Museum
Shouldn't the Jüdisches Museum be mentioned? It's a good exibit of jewish history, and a fine pice of architecture. - (WT-en) Ole-p 22:36, 12 June 2006
 * If you think something important is missing, plunge forward and add it! - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 15:11, 12 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Ah yeah I went there. Impressive architecture. I've now added it: Berlin -- (WT-en) Nojer2 09:40, 13 June 2006 (EDT)

Second Berlin Wikipedia Meetup
Some of us English-speaking Wikipedians from Berlin are going to meet up in August. If you'd like to join us, sign up at en:Wikipedia:Meetup/Berlin. Would be great to see you there en:User:(WV-en) Lear 21 25 Jul 2006

Web Links?
For what reason was the Web links section on the English language site removed? The German page and many other pages have web links. Web links to local sites, such as English language blogs and news sites (there are not very many) are very helpful for visitors.
 * See Project:External links. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:08, 29 January 2007 (EST)
 * I disagree with this Policy, and therefore would like to know how to have it changed: Wikivoyage_talk:External links --85.178.16.181 12:19, 29 January 2007 (EST)
 * The place where you have linked to (Project:External links) is actually the correct place for you to raise your objections. It is the discussion page related to the external links policy. The wording of the policy itself is on the Project:External links page. So you could raise you objection on the discussion page, but it's probably something which has been discussed before, in which case you might like to just add your weight to the discussion by saying 'I agree/disagree'. It's pretty unlikely that your comment will result in a change in policy, but that also depends on how persuasive you can be. Oh and try to be open minded to the idea that maybe the policy shouldn't be changed :-) -- (WT-en) Harry Wood 08:57, 30 January 2007 (EST)

prostitution
well there are some areas - not red-light-areas - but some where many prostitutes are:
 * oranienburger street is very infamous for its all-styled-up prostitutes, but supposed to be "clean" as it is in a very touristic area
 * kurfürstenstrasse, well know vor low prices, infamous for drug-taking prostitutes
 * railwaystation berlin zoologischer garten - also infamous for drug-taking prostitutes

Google Earth and wikivoyage
I have a made Berlin city guide for Google Earth. (kmz file)

The file contains - a disrtict overlay (from the wikivoyage) - nearly all museums by district - nearly all the places that are in the wikivoyage section for berlin. - and much more places of interest

as well as the berlin 3D file and subways overlays. These files open directly in google earth. So you need to have it installed to open this files.

I`m making this kind of files for the major cities in Europe. (about 9 now)

would it be possible to give Google earth files a place in the article?

remove David's
in the sleep -> budget section there is a David's Cozy Backpackers listed, although backpackers stay there its not really a place to stay. It's in fact a flat with several rooms and plenty of mattresses on the floor. There have been plenty of rumors about the owner as well.

I would offer to complete the list of hostels with recommended ones and new ones and remove david's then.

you can read about it here: http://www.bug.co.uk/reviews/hostels/Europe/Germany/Berlin/sbr/date_desc/4622/davids_cosy_little_backpacker_hostel.htm --(WT-en) SonarTom 09:49, 26 June 2007 (EDT)

Molle
Hi, I live in Berlin and I found this website.

Please take that part Bier = Molle off. Nobody and when I say nobody I mean it says Molle over hier, everbody knows the word itself but it's not be spoken anymore since the late 60's

So please do never order a Molle in a pub except you're a time traveler.

Bye

Parades
The Loveparade will not take place anymore in Berlin. So i deleted it. Since 2007 it will take place in the Ruhrpott. (WT-en) Shizow 05:41, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

Business
I've just been in Berlin for Xmas, and I was surprised seeing the 24th afternoon all shops and restaurants closed. They told me that berliners are preparing for the Xmas dinner and to worship at midnight. All over only turists wandering around, we end up eating in an american fastfood! I think this should be reported in berlin wikivoyage page, so I added it in the introduction of the "Eat" section.

Pub Crawl
Hey, i was in Berlin last weekend, i first went on the free walking tour of new berlin tours, then, because i read the article, i prefered to go on insider tours pub crawl because the article says it is the "best known one". Guess what, it was friday and only 15 (!) people showed up for the tour. Mostly men. At the beginning everybody got one 0,33 bottle of free beer. On the way we got a few free shots, the guides were really unorganized. The next day i went on the new berlin pub crawl because it was recommended on the free walking tour, and what happened? We could drink as much beer for free as we liked till 9pm, the tour startet at 9pm with more than 100 (!!) people. There was a lot of guides working and attending the us (like 5 or 6, i don't remember) and they were all very funny. We went to 2 pubs where everybody got a free shot with every drink we bought, and then to 3 nightclubs wich normaly charge entry fees, but for us it was free. Always on the way the guides poured out vodka with juice mixed as much as we wanted. It was great and everybody had so much fun. So my personal opinion is that the new berlin crawl plays in another league then the insider tours one. I suggest to change this point.


 * Feel free to change the article. Everybody can do changes here so don't hesitate! (WT-en) jan 08:53, 24 November 2008 (EST)

Pfannkuchen, Eierkuchen, Berliner
I am a native Berlin and I'm afraid that the following theme is quite complicated. The German word Pfannkuchen actually means pancake, but not so in Berlin! The usage differs from the rest of Germany. If you want to eat Pfannkuchen in Berlin you will get a fried doughnut with a heart of marmelade. This is what is described as Berliner in this article. But beware: The word Berliner is almost used only outside from Berlin. Although you will be understood, you also will be identified as a stranger. If you want to eat pancake in Berlin ask for Eierkuchen. This will prevent confusion. Excuse my bad English...


 * Infobox added to Eat. Thanks for the info! (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:13, 7 December 2008 (EST)

Subway Silence
Hello everyone

the people of Berlin appreciate your interest in our city, but there are actually also some cultural (unwritten) rules that need to be respected. I'm writing this because as a origin Berliner, me and many others realized that Berlin is at the moment very attractive to people from Spain and there are some things young spanish people don't seem to understand. It may be the cultural difference, but:

In Berlin, the people in the subway enjoy the silence. The subway train is generally a silent way of transportation. Unfortunately, young spanish people seem to not understand this or maybe are not informed about this. I'm just writing you this because people in Berlin enjoy having a silent ride home after a stressful day at work. Please respect this. I would be glad if someone could include this in the english written article. Best regards and thanks for attention Sebastian


 * - WOW... just WOW... DONT be silent!! Some people are also too sensitive, and think there should be rules where they dont belong... the reason its not against the law to talk and yell and have a good time on the U-Bahn, is because its PUBLIC transport. If you want silence, go to a library, or hell, even WALK home... "young spanish people" make no more noise than anyone else not from berlin, it just seems like this is whiney racism to me.


 * This discussion looks to be veering off topic into the world of rants. Please use talk pages only for discussing the article itself. Further off-topic discussion may be reverted. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:38, 29 December 2009 (EST)

Map
The map does not use the same color-coding that is given beside each division/district beside it in the article. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 18:18, 26 June 2009 (EDT)


 * Hmm. "Which shade of grey should we visit today?" Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the creator uploaded the .svg source for the map, so it isn't easily modifiable. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 18:38, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

Explore
That explore section was really useful for me! I put it back and this it should stay unless it is discussed.--82.113.106.93 06:20, 11 October 2009 (EDT)

Tour listings
If you want to erase links from the Berlin tour page, do so after scrutinizing the link against the wikivoyage tour listing guidelines. A blanket delete will only end up in a revert.

http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Activity_listings#Tour_listing --82.113.121.89 13:37, 11 October 2009 (EDT)


 * Sertmann's original removal was very much in line with our policy on tours. Please do not continue edit warring. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:36, 11 October 2009 (EDT)

District Structure
The district structure of this article really jars. For huge metropolitan cities like New York and London we have 5 districts. 12 for Berlin seems all wrong and driven by the local government admin divisions rather than clarity for travellers. I do not know Berlin anything like well enough to attempt sorting this, but there are clearly Wikivoyagers who do :) --(WT-en) Burmesedays 21:59, 12 October 2009 (EDT)
 * Burmeseday, the discussion about districts in Berlin started in 2004 ;-) That's maybe the reason we never made it to a good one. Andrew and myself did a first overhaul in 2006/2007 and came down to 12 districts. The issue is that the main Berlin article does not lack of information but instead have to much... The info break down in districts and a senseful coordination within the districts is the problem! (WT-en) jan 08:40, 20 October 2009 (EDT)


 * Getting a district structure up for Berlin will be quite a task. I think we should split up "Mitte" which will be hard. What about the following idea:

Mitte:
 * Government Square-Friedrichstrasse (maybe we could call this Historic Center?)
 * Potzdamer Platz-Tiergarten
 * Alexanderplatz
 * Oranienburgerstrasse
 * Wedding (not sure if this deserves its own article. Maybe just include it with Oranienburgerstrasse).

Also not sure whether Hackischer Markt should be included with Alexanderplatz or Oranienburgerstrasse.

Outer Berlin:
 * Western Suburbs (Charlottenburg-Wilmersdorf, Spandau, Charlottenburg-Wilmersdorf)
 * Northern Surburbs (Reinickendorf, Pankow)
 * Eastern Suburbs (Kreuzberg-Friedrichshain, Lichtenberg, Marzahn-Hellersdorf, Treptow-Köpenick)
 * Southern Suburbs (Tempelhof-Schöneberg, Neukölln)

Just an idea, but I'm sure it can be improved somehow.. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 10:07, 31 December 2009 (EST)

Globetrotter: Thanks for your ideas and sorry for my late response as i missed your suggestion. To give some ideas

 Mitte should be stripped of the Tiergarten & Wedding parts and stay on called Mitte as it is the cultural and political center with loads of sights.

Historically Tiergarten, Charlottenburg-Wilmersdorf and Schöneberg formed the so called City West

Kreuzberg-Friedrichshain & Prenzlauerberg have a lot in common and are jointly East of Mitte but i lack a convincing name for these young students and cultural mixed districts.

Reinickendorf, Spandau, Wedding, Pankow, Weissensee could be called Northern districts as they are rather homogenic.

Tempelhof, Neukölln, Treptow-Köpenick Zehlendorf and Steglitz could be formed as Southern districts Hohenschönenhausen-Lichtenber, Marzahn-Hellersdorf could form the Eastern districts

I think locals would not outright deny this proposal. (WT-en) jan 12:26, 18 February 2010 (EST)


 * Sounds good :) I made a simple map just to show if we got it correct here. Is that districts map correct? --(WT-en) globe-trotter 14:37, 24 February 2010 (EST)
 * The map is a huge improvement and looks fine for me. Only weird think is, that i see a lot of white spots on the map (especially around the letter) and the purple for the South makes it hard to read the names. (WT-en) jan 15:15, 25 February 2010 (EST)
 * Don't worry, its not a permanent map, just a first sketch to see whether the scheme is right. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 15:30, 25 February 2010 (EST)
 * I'm happy that you take care of this long debate. It's since 2006 we are discussing the districts and we never agreed... (WT-en) jan 15:39, 25 February 2010 (EST)


 * If the district combining Kreuzberg-Friedrichshain and Prenzlauerberg doesn't have a proper local name, maybe Berlin/East Central or Berlin/Central East works for there? Or Berlin/City East, which would parallel the local naming of Tiergarten, Charlottenburg-Wilmersdorf and Schöneberg as Berlin/City West? (But would that be reminiscent of GDR-ruled former East Berlin which, as far as I know, did not include Kreuzberg?) &mdash;(WT-en) Vidimian 16:00, 25 February 2010 (EST)
 * Kreuzberg was part of West Berlin while the other two were part of East Berlin. City West is a standard phrase nowadays to distinguish to the so called City East (around Friedrichstrasse center of Mitte). I still lack a good name because all three are known for their nightlife, trendy people, high student population and a multicultural flair. (WT-en) jan 16:25, 25 February 2010 (EST)




 * I've now made a map of Berlin showing the districts. I like the grouping of Kreuzberg, Friedrichshain and Prenzlauer Berg, for now I used the name Friedrichshain-Kreuzberg, but we should obviously think of something better. Are there any mistakes on the map or can we implement it onto the city page? --(WT-en) globe-trotter 14:56, 27 March 2010 (EDT)


 * While I don't know how accurate the map is (although it looks pretty nice) as I don't know the city at all, I just popped in to say that, given there is not an obvious better name for that district, Berlin/Friedrichshain-Kreuzberg is not a terrible naming at all, in line with the usual format for naming city districts in Wikivoyage (though it's preferable that it has a shorter and easier-pronounced name). – (WT-en) Vidimian 16:06, 27 March 2010 (EDT)


 * And I've just noticed that it's already a district name in current structure (though smaller than what is proposed here, discluding Prenzlauerberg). – (WT-en) Vidimian 16:10, 27 March 2010 (EDT)


 * I know the format of the name is fine, but I think Prenzlauer Berg is too important not to be mentioned in the district title. But Kreuzberg-Friedrichshain-Prenzlauer Berg strikes me as too long and weird. That's why we still lack a good name for the area. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 18:35, 27 March 2010 (EDT)

G-t: First of all thank you very much for the excellent map. The structure is fine and you combined the right districts together. (WT-en) jan 03:27, 29 March 2010 (EDT)
 * 1) Minor colour issue: I was a bit irritated by the green of the Friedrichshain-Kreuzberg district and the parks green. Would it be possible to use maybe another colour for this district? Also could you please use some of the forest style things (don't know their proper name) like in Nusa Lembongan. That would make clear that the big green spots are actually forest and not a district?
 * 2) Please erase the mark for Tempelhof airport it was closed last year due to the construction of the new airport in Schönefeld. It will be now a conversion area and turned into a residential area.
 * 3) The name Friedrichshain-Kreuzberg is already taken by a current district so we can't use it. The district is multicultural, filled with backpackers and student + vibrant in the night. Does East Central or Central East sounds too much like New York?


 * Ah yes, I'll fix the forest pattern in the park areas. I didn't use them here cuz they showed up very small.. But I'll see what I can do. I also agree with the other suggestions. I'm thinking about calling the area East Central, that works fine. Eventually we'll have to split those into three anyway but for now this works best. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 15:11, 29 March 2010 (EDT)
 * Thank you for the changes. We could split the three districts but that would look a bit curious. It's the three most visited boroughs by backpackers but most tourist head for Mitte and Charlottenburg. I had a closer look today at the district articles. South and North shouldn't be a problem and City West can be done with some work. It's only this three that make be think because they have so much content. (WT-en) jan 15:58, 29 March 2010 (EDT)
 * Yes, but I think they still can be combined for now, even content wise. I updated the map now, the only thing I didn't do is change the color of the district as I couldn't find any other colors to suit. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 21:39, 29 March 2010 (EDT)
 * Map looks good to me. I suggest we bring it on the article and start doing the changes. I will have some time over Easter but it would be very much appreciated if you had some time too. (WT-en) jan 09:15, 30 March 2010 (EDT)

Short visit
For a short time visitor, it will be better if you start the day by visiting Budestag in the morning. Before 8 AM line is short. You have a panaromic view of the city with all the improtant land marks. Then you can decide where to go or not. There are some free guided tours usually started at 10:00 AM from the Paris square. So, if you can join that afterwards, it will be a good combination. The guides are really good and five to ten euro is the standard tips. Before launch you know a lot about Berlin!

maps at bus stops
It is included in the "bicycle" section, but may be a more important thing: Nearly every bus stop has a map not only of the surroundings, but of at least half of Berlin. So if you're lost, just look for a bus stop with those bus shelters. I'm a local, and I never carry a map, as there are maps everywhere 78.52.239.129 15:45, 25 March 2011 (EDT)